Jeremy Corbyn

Press have a history lesson

Clearly the [s] PLP[/s][b] Jeremy Corbyn MP[/b] openly revolting against and constantly undermining the leader is not a cause of this and just evidence of just how[s] rubbish, [/s] [b] disengaged from the PLP [/b] he is.
Him winning the leadership again will be yet further proof that, electorally speaking, he is [s]shit[/s] [b]still disconnected from the PLP [/b]

@ ernie

You said that only Tories would think that binner had a point.

binner's point is that Corbyn cannot appeal to enough of the English vote (as Blair did) to gain power.

You seem to disagree with this hypothesis (you're not a Tory).

You're either being deliberately obtuse or you are actually missing the point.

7/10 for the sarcasm though. Good effort.

You're either being deliberately obtuse or you are actually missing the point.

7/10 for the sarcasm though. Good effort.

That's a strange comment from someone who has just deliberately and blatantly misrepresented what I said.

I know what point I was making. If you want to make your own separate point then fine - I will choose whether I respond to it or not.

Right now I don't think I'll bother.

So anyway......it looks like the plotters billionaire friends are right behind them :

[url= http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/693486/assem-allam-labour ]Top Labour donor lays into Corbyn and urges party to move to the right[/url]

[i][b]"ONE of Labour's top donors has urged the party to shift away from the far-left direction it has been taken to by Jeremy Corbyn."[/b][/i]

No mention what this "far-left direction" is though. It's a bit like the Republican/ Tea Party Right never felt the need to explain why according to them Barack Obama is a Marxist Muslim extremist.

I particularly liked this quote from Assem Allam :

[i][b]"I believe [Winston] Churchill had a saying, 'It is insane to do the same thing twice and expect different results'."[/i][/b]

Assem Allam certainly knows his cliches but it is the first time I have heard that one attributed to Churchill. I believe that this particular "quote" first surfaced around 15 years ago, Churchill died 50 years ago.

I also liked :

[i][b]Tim Johnston, from the hard-right group Momentum, a key ally of Mr Corbyn, rebuked Dr Allam's idea of a "centralist Tory party".[/b][/i]

I guess that when you submerge yourself in nonsensical rhetoric it must be quite easy to get mixed up.

.

I also noticed that another wealthy Labour donor, Ian Rosenblatt, said today that he was backing Owen Smith but that he didn't expect him to win the next general election, should he become Labour leader.

Well that certainly throws a spanner into the works with regards to why it is so imperative to replace Corbyn as Labour leader.

Of course no one actually believes that Owen Smith stands a better chance than Corbyn to become the next prime minister, it's just no one outside the Corbyn camp is prepared to say it, well until now that is.

They don't attack Corbyn on policy - they just say that the only reason they want him replaced is that he is allegedly "unelectable", just like their preferred man, apparently.

[quote=binners ]Him winning the 'leadership' given the insurgency over the last 12 months is as decisive a victory, and as relevant to the wider electorate, as me walking the upcoming election in our house for best bald fat bloke

its not its the very issue as this is the schism.

I dont understand why you think Labour MPs can ignore the labour party.

Well if a load of people I've never seen before, despite having lived here for years, all rock up out of the blue and claim to be the true representatives of the hosehold, then vote for some other bald fat bloke. The one who lives at the bottom of the garden and throws rocks and bottles at the house, The one everyone's been rolling their eyes at and trying to ignore, because frankly he's a bit odd, and he wins, then clearly I'm In a bit of a pickle

I'm sure that won't happen though.

If it does, your suggestion is I just accept that and move out, right?

The Labour Party isn't someone's house with a locked front door.

It is not someone's personal property. It was formed to represent trade unions in parliament, the clue is in the name. Today it exists to represent the interests of all working people.

Obviously the Labour elite and their wealthy billionaire donor friends have a different idea. But they were very happy to encourage people to join, and they were even very happy to allow people who aren't even Labour Party members have a say, when they believed that it would work in their favour.

Suddenly becoming a genuine mass movement, something which the Labour Party once was, and which it should still be aspiring to be today, is a really bad idea.

That's the problem when you involve people - sometimes you can't control their opinions.

Obviously you would prefer that it once again became a small narrow clique. How do you propose to do that - through purges and expulsions? Forming your own small narrow easy-to-control party might be easier.

Misrepresented, eh?

I think it's probably fair to say that quite a few people think that binners has a point, ie, all the Tory supporters on here

Yeah, right. 🙄

Guess we've all been listening to the Corbyn Story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07lw2kd

It is not someone's personal property. It was formed to represent trade unions in parliament, the clue is in the name. Today it exists to represent the interests of all working people.

Sorry, are you saying that it didn't represent the interests of all working people prior to 1983, when the electoral college was introduced?

Suddenly becoming a genuine mass movement, something which the Labour Party once was, and which it should still be aspiring to be today, is a really bad idea.

Again, if it was a successful mass movement in the past, when the PLP exclusively chose the leader, then what makes you think that it's got anything to do with a leadership selection system that was only introduced in 2014?

You can see why the PLP is worried....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/26/labour-as-far-behind-tories-under-jeremy-corbyn-as-when-michael/

[img] [/img]

Such a Golden Era for the British working class. I can fully understand why Jezza wants to take us back there. It was great, wasn't it?

Mr Woppit - Member

Misrepresented, eh?

"I think it's probably fair to say that quite a few people think that binners has a point, ie, all the Tory supporters on here"

Yeah, right. 🙄

What's the rolling eyes for Woppit - you think the Tory supporters on here don't agree with binners ?

Are you reading a different thread ?

binners - Member

[img] [/img]

Such a Golden Era for the British working class. I can fully understand why Jezza wants to take us back there. It was great, wasn't it?

And this is the man who repeatedly accuses others of engaging in "sixth form politics".

[i]"Oh I think I'll post a picture with a smartarse comment, that sounds grownup"[/i] 🙂

"Oh I think I'll post a picture with a smartarse comment, that sounds grownup"

outofbreath - Member

Guess we've all been listening to the Corbyn Story:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b07lw2kd

"Tory supporters"

Question for everyone. I've always thought the Tory party didn't have as many "supporters" as some of the other parties.

By which I mean, Labour and the Greens are "movements". Many of their supporters support them like a football team or a religion. They feel loyalty, and they feel they're part of something.

I'm not sure the Tory Party has as much of that. I think the Tory Party is just a party you can vote for if they seem to have the right policies. When another party came along with 'better' policies, many more Tory voters would happily vote for the alternative without feeling they were betraying anything.

So, many Green Voters would identify themselves as "a green", I don't think as many people who voted Tory feel they're "a Tory".

Discuss.

Tory supporters are people who go out and vote Tory during elections, opinion pollsters tend to call them "Tory voters", I didn't think it was complicated.

The reason you don't see them is that they are already in control.
They don't need to protest, or make themselves visible - the country is already serving them.

It continued to serve them under Blair, so they didn't really need to make themselves known then either.

If Corbyn goes much further you can expect to see them raise their heads a bit more, but mostly it'll be the kind of behind-the-scenes manipulation that money does so well.

The Tory party had 3 million members in the 1950s and under Thatcher membership was still about 1 million. Now about 150,000 but I think there is a supporter option.

You not feelin' the 80's love comrade? Come on brother... join us!.... we're having a sit in in the common room! It's the future!

[img] [/img]

Tory supporters are people who go out and vote Tory during elections, opinion pollsters tend to call them "Tory voters", I didn't think it was complicated.

So does voting conservative taint you forever, are the floating voters impure?

Or just more tripe from the Croydon Communist

So does voting conservative taint you forever, are the floating voters impure?

Or just more tripe from the Croydon Communist

Floating voters are defined as such by pollsters,in the same way as they define Tory voters, Labour voters, SNP voters, etc.

BTW I like the [i]"more tripe from the Croydon Communist"[/i] very amusing. Although I have to say that you sound a little angry. Try not to read any more tripe?

Double post

mefty - Member

The Tory party had 3 million members in the 1950s and under Thatcher membership was still about 1 million. Now about 150,000 but I think there is a supporter option.

My understanding is that until fairly recently the Tory Party didn't issue membership cards as such, ie, you couldn't be a card-carrying party member. Instead you joined your local Conservative Party Association, which for many people represented more a social involvement rather than political activity.

I might not have got that entirely correct but it help would explain those dramatically high numbers in 50s, 60s, and 70s, and the relatively low figures today - I believe party membership cards are now issued.

Conservative Party has many activists and supporters including amongst the young. Political party membership has fallen across the board (prior to the £3 fiasco) as many people don't really see the point of being a member as everyone gets to vote and they are not interested in attending local meetings etc. Leafletting and other election work is done by volunteers who may or may not be party members

Ernie why don't you get your head round the fact that many "Tories" here are ex Labour voters. Ditto UKIP and the SNP. All these parties supporters are made up to a significant degree by ex-Labour voters. The SNP is a center-right party focused primarily on a single populist issue.

I'm liking ernie's new "trying to win the argument by ignoring the issue" tactic.

Doesn't mean the Labour Party hasn't screwed it's chances of being actually elected, though.

But then ernie doesn't want to deal with that, he's only interested in the hoo-hah inside the 6th form common room...

jambalaya - Member

Political party membership has fallen across the board (prior to the £3 fiasco)

The £3 fiasco, as you call it, has absolutely nothing at all to do with membership figures, I think you know that.

Btw you can join the Tory Party for as little as £5, if that's too much you become a supporter for £1.

And of course I can get my head round the fact that Tory supporters have in the past supported Blair/New Labour. Just look at Rupert Murdoch - you don't get much more right-wing and reactionary than him ffs.

Mr Woppit - Member

I'm liking ernie's new "trying to win the argument by ignoring the issue" tactic.

Don't lie, you don't like it at all, otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it.

Nifty footwork.

Here's an indication of Corbyn's reliable judgement skills. This is what has happened to a whole country after being run by people who Corbyn has said, he admires...

[url= http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/venezuela-cross-border-buy-food-inflation-mismanagement-colombia-a7156711.html ]Buggered.[/url]

Ernie why don't you get your head round the fact that many "Tories" here are ex Labour voters

It is amusing to see ho many of you RW claim to have voted for Blair claim to have joined the labour party to vote for corbyn - whilst blaming "militants for entryism" even though he won the vote without their votes. Its also heartwarming to see how much you care about an effective left wing, sorry almost left of centre opposition to hold the govt, you just voted for, to account - whats up do you not even trust Tories.

Mr Woppit - Member

Nifty footwork.

He says before quickly trying to link Corbyn with the situation in Venezuela. 🙂

Anyway back on topic :

[url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/26/labour-mp-seema-malhotra-claim-corbyn-office-violation-not-rule-breach-speaker?CMP=share_btn_tw ]Alleged violation of Labour MP's office by Corbyn aide 'not a breach'[/url]

[b][i]Bercow said: “Having taken advice, I am satisfied that there is nothing in your letter or in the information subsequently elicited by the deputy serjeant at arms which would justify regarding these events as a possible breach.” [/i][/b]

This hasn't received quite the news coverage which the original story received. Time to move onto the next smear I guess.

Owen Smith is doing a campaign launch speech type thing. At Orgreave. It's on Five Live

Can I just check? We've not passed through a time portal back to 1983, have we? I'm expecting Cliff Richard to roller skate past me at any moment 😯

He says before quickly trying to link Corbyn with the situation in Venezuela

No ernie, that's an ACTUAL link, as in: People admired by Jeremy Corbyn bring an entire country to ruination.

7/10 for obfuscation, though.

"People admired by Jeremy Corbyn bring an entire country to ruination."

🙄 Perhaps best not to mention the assorted scum that various tories have admired over the years, then...

Obviously you want to use diversionary tactics and discuss Venezuela, I'm not going to get sucked into that. Besides, you are probably unaware that the opposition in Venezuela won a very large majority in the legislative elections last year and are no longer the opposition. And you are probably unaware of this in yesterday's news.

[url= http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/Clinton-Emails-Reveal-Direct-US-Sabotage-of-Venezuela-20160726-0041.html ]Clinton Emails Reveal Direct US Sabotage of Venezuela[/url]

Obviously you want to use diversionary tactics and discuss Venezuela

Agree.

I'm not going to get sucked into that.

Very wise.

Besides, you are probably unaware that the opposition in Venezuela won a very large majority in the legislative elections last year and are no longer the opposition. And you are probably unaware of this in yesterday's news.

Clinton Emails Reveal Direct US Sabotage of Venezuela

Ahhh, that looks a little bit like being sucked into a diversion.....

Not really. I'm not going to argue about it 🙂

Woppit doesn't like that though, despite saying that he does.

Obviously you want to use diversionary tactics and discuss Venezuela, I'm not going to get sucked into that.

Says ernie, after trying a diversionary tactic to discuss Venezuela.

Nope. Quite happy to carry on discussing Corbyn's incompetencies.

Anyway..... whatsisface's speech....

Banker bashing? Tick. Workers rights? Tick.

Not very Blairite at all

It's almost as if the PLP have recognised they have to re-engage with a core vote, and move to the left on key issues, but not so far left that you're spouting CND stuff, and refusing to sing the national anthem.

Hmmmmmm...... there might be something in that

Maybe they could call it centre left or summink. New Old Labour?

Edit double post

[url= https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/309065744954580992?lang=en ]https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/309065744954580992?lang=en[/url]

A moron's idea of a genius.

Owen is realising that Corbyn/McDonnell policies haven't been widely broadcast in the midst of all the attacks, so is stating them as if he's invented them.
[img] [/img]

Clinton Emails Reveal Direct US Sabotage of Venezuela

The Scooby Doo Defence - the plan would have worked if it wasn't for you [s]pesky kids[/s] / a free press / Yankee Imperialism / Red Torys / voters.

What's wrong with refusing to sing the national anthem? It's a shit, awful dirge, about an unelected head of state who apparently enjoys the position by 'divine right'. And it's not very nice towards the Scots.

I admire anyone who refuses to sing it. And I think anyone who does sing it, is deluded and apparently happy to be subservient to an unelected leader. If they actually know the words, that is.