Jeremy Corbyn

CaptainFlashheart - Member

just occasionally have a peek

Yes I've had several peeks today, well done for noticing.

Obviously this bothers you, unfortunately I might start posting more on this thread. Or I might not.

Anyway. Enough about me.......what about you ? Got anything constructive to say ? Don't be shy.

Got anything constructive to say ?

No. Thanks for asking, though.

geetee1972 - Member

A woman gets nine months paid maternity leave say from her employer but the men don't get that. It's clearly discrimination.

Of course it is. But since women get the shitty end of the stick in many other ways, it's not where you start. On average, a man could take that 9 months unpaid, and more than make up the difference over his career just because of the gender pay gap. In fact, he'll have done so after about 7 years.

Responding to commentary on the gender pay gap with "but us poor men are discriminated against too!" is specious at best, and a very played out card. Who will defend the poor middle class wasp!

This thread feels as warm and cost as a shadow cabinet meeting only with more people in it....

No.

Fair enough.

Here's some more from me :

Yesterday Owen Smith declared that under Corbyn the Labour Party was, quote :

[b] [i]"teetering on the brink of extinction"[/i][/b]

Which I'm sure you'll agree sounds rather dramatic.

Specially when you consider that under Corbyn Labour Party membership has now risen to over half a million - the highest in modern times. And which makes the Labour Party today by far and away the largest political party in the UK.

If Owen Smith does indeed become Labour Party leader unrestrained hyperbole here we come.

I hope they have better jokes in the shadow cabinet.
Pretty sure there will be fewer right wing Tories moaning 😉

Men are also more aggressive negotiators for the same reason, another reason why you still see a persistent pay difference despite the legislation and changing attitudes.

that difference does NOT represent discrimination or disadvantage. It represents choice

Of course it is. But since women get the shitty end of the stick in many other ways, it's not where you start. On average, a man could take that 9 months unpaid, and more than make up the difference over his career just because of the gender pay gap. In fact, he'll have done so after about 7 years.

It's all part of the same problem though. You can't fix one without the other and I think we should fix both. As for the shitty end of the stick a) I know plenty of men who've had the shitty end of the stick at work, this is not something that's defined by gender and the world was never ruled by 'men', it was only ever ruled by 'some men'. And b) if you want to know what the shitty end of a stick feels like ask any father whose been denied access to his kids and has subsequently lost the best part of life as a result. Go on. Ask. There are plenty of them out there.

You see that's the problem with the far left. It's full of hypocrisy. You only see the prejudice and the discrimination you want to see.

tmh kerching 😀

Ernie the 40,000 figure was on Sky earlier, no idea where they got that from. Also @captain 'twas they who reported Angela Eagle had cancelled her open surgeries

Firstly no doubt women earn less than men in many professions, there are some legitimate reasons like career breaks for kids means they return with less experience, also more women in part-time work and/or doing less hours as they are primary carer for kids. Women more often secondary earners and thus less focused on progression. As noted above men are generally more aggressive in switching jobs and thus getting payrises. There is of course gender inequality too where like for like women are paid less.

It's the job, the duty, the responsibility of every MP to get behind the party

Hmmmm........do as I say, not as I do.....

Gender inequality is an important issue, it is however not one with which you can lead a general election campaign with. Its's worth a few days of campaign airtime but that's about it. A GE will be won on big picture issues like the nhs, economy and taxation.

you already do THM you already do

Ernie the 40,000 figure was on Sky earlier, no idea where they got that from.

No, nor have I. It suggests that they have made personal phone calls and vetted presumably the majority of 180,000 applications, in just 24 hours (working through the night I guess) despite having a month to do so.

I would take it with a pinch of salt. Like most things you hear relating to Corbyn.

I am not following this thread in any detail, I just occasionally have a peek to make sure that it's still a completely pointless thread packed[b] people who have a vote in the coming leadership election[/b] [s]Tory voters[/s] giving their opinions on what's best for the Labour Party, and that binners is still ranting endlessly about middle-class southerners [s]with special dietary needs[/s][b]who are unable to access a Gregg's bakery[/b], or whatever it is that upsets a salt-of-the-earth working-class northerner like him

FIFY 😉

jambalaya - Member

Gender inequality is an important issue, it is however not one with which you can lead a general election campaign with.

Well that's useful to know.

I would take it with a pinch of salt. Like most things you hear relating to Corbyn.

Like Smith-espue hyperbolic talk of coups ? Sounds rather dramatic.

Gender inequality is an important issue, it is however not one with which you can lead a general election campaign with.

Especially when he won't publish the numbers for his own office or the wider party

Gender equality? Anyone thought of having a female leader?

geetee1972 - Member

You see that's the problem with the far left. It's full of hypocrisy. You only see the prejudice and the discrimination you want to see.

Absolute pish. I see the discrimination perfectly well, and I already said so in my last post, so pretending otherwise just makes you look stupid.

But we reality is, there are a lot of social injustices out there, and can't fix everything at once, so logic and common decency tell us to put most effort into the bigger issues and the people most disadvantaged. Throwing "But other people are disadvantaged too" at people trying to reduce discrimination is nothing but a diversion tactic. We can't stop all discrimination, so should we stop reducing any descrimination in the interests of fairness? Of course not. Are you [i]against[/i] narrowing the gender pay gap? I'd presume not. It just happens to be the stick you've grabbed in your desire to attack Corbyn.

Of course, this doesn't mean that you can't progress both. And ironically, Corbyn has actually proposed expanding paid paternity rights. But don't let that get in your way.

teamhurtmore - Member

Sounds rather dramatic.

You think so?

All the media, including the press, the TV, and the radio, think "attempted coup" is a rather apt description of what has occurred recently in the Labour Party.

Have you considered a strongly worded letter to various media outlets ?

I would sign it "Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells" 💡

No, one only has to observe events in Turkey to realise what an absurd choice of word it is. Or should I say a rather dramatic choice of word.

Have you considered a sympathetic letter to the people of Turkey, letting them know that you know exactly how they feel? Do you think that they will see the parallel?

teamhurtmore - Member

Anyone thought of having a female leader?

Yes they did, but she pulled out of the contest.

I'm surprised you hadn't noticed.

one only has to observe events in Turkey to realise what an absurd choice of word it is.

Put that in your letter from Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells. They need to be told.

...to be deselected by old what's his name - Paul Cuckoo.

The new gently, kind version of politics. After all as Jezza told us tonight, he doesn't do malice. No really...

Now you're not making any sense at all.

No, one only has to observe events in Turkey to realise what an absurd choice of word it is. Or should I say a rather dramatic choice of word.

It's really not very long ago that we would read reports of this happening in south america or africa and be appalled, and yet here we are today, saying that it's all OK in the good old UK because it hasn't yet descended into violent bloodshed

Well don't expect Brexiteers to be appalled, their attitude towards Turks was well documented. And now folk compare their issues with the simple fact that labour have the wrong bloke in the wrong job. With such sympathies, who needs enemies?

But you are correct....

[quote=ernie_lynch ]Now you're not making any sense at all.

[img] [/img]

ernie_lynch - Member 
Unfortunately the thread has been rendered pointless by the usual petty point-scorers who would rather post silly pictures and rant instead of engaging in intelligent debate.

Words of wisdom, Ernie, words of wisdom

teamhurtmore - Member

Well don't expect Brexiteers to be appalled, their attitude towards Turks was ell documented.

Tom Watson is a Brexiteer who wasn't appalled by the coup in Turkey?

He was referring to attempted coups in the Labour Party nearly a year ago. One day after Corbyn was elected leader in fact :

[url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34237196 ]Tom Watson: 'Labour party members will not accept coup'[/url]

I know that I've been critical of the lack of intelligent debate on this thread but I have to admit that I'm finding the total absurdity of linking all this with Turkey and Brexit really rather entertaining 🙂

You are correct the use of the word coup to describe both scenarios is absurd. Nice self reflection there. Bravo.

Anyway sleep well - just like Jezza apparently - hope all the cuckoos don't make the nest too cramped.

[img] [/img]

No what I was referring to as 'absurd' is what you are waffling on about - Turkey and Brexit and how people aren't appalled by bloodshed.

But I think you knew that.

So its because we are just better negotiators rather than any gender bias....you really sure about that ?

I don't think it's [i]only[/i] because men are more likely to be aggressive negotiators no. I think it's a composite of factors that also includes other variables, such as that men change jobs more frequently which while a simple argument, is nevertheless a demonstrable factor. BTW the c.9% figure does take into account career breaks so that is [i]not [/i]a factor here.

but one also has to ask why equivalent "female" jobs get paid so much less than "equivalent" male roles.

I think here you mean why do roles that have a higher percentage of women doing them typically attract lower pay and we can reference social or caring related roles here. This is a good question. We have to employ a nanny because my wife works a full time professional shift based job. I've just finished appointing a maternity cover position (current nanny is about to drop) and so the issue of pay has cropped up. A few people, namely my wife and MIL, have commented we seem to be paying our current and replacement nanny rather a lot for what they do. I couldn't disagree more frankly. I get why jobs in finance and the legal profession pay a lot because they are hard jobs to acquire the skills for but still, you'd think caring for and educating children would come with gold plated rewards.

Are you against narrowing the gender pay gap?

No far from it. I've always been a champion of equality especially in the work place. My mother was one of the new breed of nurses in the 80s who were part of the wave to professionalise nursing to a new standard. My dad worked as well, but it was from my mother that I got my work ethic. So I am very much in favour of seeing that figure approach parity (within the margin of error) and as I said, my wife is a professional woman and my career is currently only plodding along while I support her in a big career development move.

What I am angry about is the continuous rhetoric that attacks my gender as if being male means I am in some way to blame for the problem. There is also a massive failure to balance the argument the other way and redress the failures that men have experienced in the family courts and the lack of recognition for the importance of fathers. This problem is real, pernicious and persistent and there are many factions, particularly on the left of politics, that refuse to acknowledge it.

Well I am sure that Jezza is good for his word and that there is no gender bias in his teams.

What I am angry about is the continuous rhetoric that attacks my gender as if being male means I am in some way to blame for the problem.

Right, well to put it bluntly, who's fault d'you think it is? The answer is going to be Men, isn't it? It's not "your" fault directly (unless you're responsible for setting wages where you work), but the answer isn't going to be "dolphins" is it?

Right, well to put it bluntly, who's fault d'you think it is? The answer is going to be Men, isn't it?

It's a reasonable point but I have a very specific and considered answer to that.

The answer is definitely not 'men'.

The answer is 'some men'. And this is my point. In the debate about gender, we see the issue as completely binary, as if all men have enjoyed some kind of benefit at the expense of all women and that's just not true. Not now and not ever.

I've never been the kind of man that enjoyed some kind of benefit or priviledge as a result of being male. Far from it and quite the reverse in some instances - I've never been 'one of the boys' so when the narative is played out to me that being male in some way confers an advantage, well it just doesn't correlate remotely with my experience or with the experience of my (male) friends.

To broaden the debate, part of the problem is that as a society, we have a habit of oversimplifying problems and using easily observable characteristics to explain them. Thus, prejudice and discrimination are only ever based on observable characteristics such as race, gender, sexuality, disability etc (actually disability is a good example because where it is a physical disability we are very good at accounting for it, but where it is an emotional or mental one, we aren't).

The greatest prejudice we are ALL guilty of is that we demonstrate towards others on account of their personality.

I will never forget the second person who managed me sitting me in a room and saying to be quite bluntly 'I think professionally you're really good but I personally just cannot stand you'.

Ernie the 40,000 figure [b]was on Sky earlier[/b], no idea where they got that from. Also @captain 'twas they who reported Angela Eagle had cancelled her open surgeries

Boys/ men do face disadvantages at some points in their lives but frankly none of it comes close to what women have to put up with.

So in brief, Corbyn is disliked by the Tory Tories, hated by the Red Tories within his party, but loved by the rapidly increasing numbers of voters in the Labour Party.

Have I got this right?

The new gently, kind version of politics. After all as Jezza told us tonight, he doesn't do malice. No really...

I watched the interview on Newsnight last night, and after we'd stopped howling with laughter at the sight of the arch back-bench rebel thumping the table and demanding loyalty, watched him make that statement. I liked the way he said 'we don't do malice' in the same way as a Bond villain would. The tone was really sinister. All that was missing was him stroking a cat on his lap, and John Macdonell stood behind him with a dodgy bowler hat in his hand.

What it really meant was 'if I get in power, then you'll all immediately be placed under surveillance' and any hint of dissent, and we'll pack you off to the gulag.

The level of hypocrisy is breathtaking. Do as I say! But definitely don't do what I've spent my entire political career doing, or there will be consequences comrade.

How come all lefties wear their revolutionary credentials like a badge of honour, then the first sniff of power and they develop an ultra authoritarian streak and turn into little tinpot dictators?

as if all men have enjoyed some kind of benefit at the expense of all women and that's just not true. Not now and not ever.

Yep, that's pretty much it. You drew the golden ticket coming out of your mum with a cock and balls

Even if you don't personally feel it, it's been so well observed and academically discussed that no one seriously doesn't think it's the case anymore.

So in brief, Corbyn is disliked by the Tory Tories, hated by the Red Tories within his party, but loved by the rapidly increasing numbers of voters in the Labour Party.

What I'm wondering as an outside observer is if everyone who'd vote Labour under Corbyn is now a member of the Labour Party.

"Ernie the 40,000 figure was on Sky earlier, no idea where they got that from. Also @captain 'twas they who reported Angela Eagle had cancelled her open surgeries"

Well that explains a lot. I'm surprised that you so readily churn it out as fact. It's not like a Murdoch owned news agency has ever been caught misinforming the public, is it?

What makes you imagine that what jamba claims was on Sky actually was on Sky?

The first time I saw the 40,000 number was yesterday afternoon and that was in the far right magazine, the New Statesman.

What makes you imagine that what jamba claims was on Sky actually was on Sky?