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Meanwhile the unpopular with the Red Tories Corbyn has not only filled a venue in Glasgow, but they have had to get a larger one.
Are any of the other candidates actually getting people getting off their bums to come and see them, or are they just using the traditional rent-a-crowd in closely cropped photos?
Are any of the other candidates actually getting people getting off their bums to come and see them
Yes, Tony Blair's preferred choice, Liz Kendall, spoke to a "packed public meeting" a couple of weeks ago about an awful smell. Apparently "over 60 people turned up".
[url= http://www.lizkendall.org/packed-public-meeting-on-biffa-stench/ ]Packed public meeting on Biffa stench[/url]
EDIT : Sorry my mistake, that was a year ago. No it doesn't seem that Liz Kendall has been very busy addressing public meetings recently.
Nothing to do with "a small slice of history"
I posted about the nationalised GPO phone service in the fifties.
You posted about the American private company Bell in the fifties.
This is a small slice of history.
You are either deliberately, or unconciously, obtuse.
I'm in a generous mood, so let's suppose it's the latter.
Poor attempt at a
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with the NHS thing.
Ernie, wasn't it Labour who turned the GPO into a public corporation and split telecoms from postal services?
Surely without those steps, privatisation would never have happened?
Any book that gets such mixed reviews must be worth a read and if nothing else getting away from the extreme public sector v private sector debate. We have a mixed economy with both forms of resource allocation - not that you would get that from most of the crap that is talked about the issue.
But still struggling my way through Owen Jones teenage diatribe agains the establishment first! Unsurprising where his sympathies lie and who he is advising,,,,tiresome book but feel I need to finish it. Who can I blame next and call the establishment!!!! 1/10 so far, but 9 for amusement!
No it was the Tories who split telecoms from postal services in preparation for privatisation.
Do you want to talk about Corbyn now ?
Are any of the other candidates actually getting people getting off their bums to come and see them
In true Westminster style, Liz and Andy have dispensed with actually meeting people, fraught as that is with... well... people, and released Youtube videos of them 'being normal' instead. As we all know though, the more an MP tries to come across as 'normal' the more weird they appear to be. They probably did it because some highly paid image consultant told them thats the way to connect with the younger voters. You know... the ones that Jeremy seems to be picking up in the totally groundbreaking, and revolutionary method of going out and actually talking to them.
And unlike Jeremy, who's actually the MP for the area, Yvette doesn't seem to have left Islington
Oh, and on behalf of everyone, can I just say WILL YOU LOT STOP BANGING ON ABOUT THE ****ING GPO!!!!
Still not had my vetting phone call yet after signing up yesterday. I received a nice email telling me they'll let me know if I've been confirmed as a supporter once my application has been processed. Maybe they're a bit busier than normal in the last minute rush!
Meanwhile, [url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/11/labour-leadership-campaign-teams-reassure-them-integrity-ballot ]I see some of Kendall's supporters are casting doubt already on the validity of the election[/url]. All we need now to further fuel this outbreak of democracy is one of the other war criminals to pipe up. Where is Jack Straw these days?
No it was the Tories who split telecoms from postal services in preparation for privatisation.
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, Ernie
[i]Post Office Telecommunications was set up as a separate department of the UK Post Office, in October 1969[/i]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Office_Telecommunications
Harold Wilson, well known Tory PM...
Binners - why not, after all, Comrade Jeremy (and Ernie) wants to Nationalise everything!
Comrade Jeremy (and Ernie) wants to Nationalise everything!
FFS! No, he does not. The thing is the more you lot misrepresent (or lie, to put it in plain terms) and crow about loony lefties, communists and the 1970s, the more the people who actually listen to him and read what he has to say can see that it's a load of rubbish and this bolsters his support. You just don't get it do you?
[i]Still not had my vetting phone call yet after signing up yesterday. [/i]
takes a while Dazh, I think it was about a week before they called me back
It's been weeks and I've had no call. I have an e-mail from Yvette Cooper asking me to tell her why I signed up to vote. I told her there was an opportunity to get a Labour party that was compassionate and not Tory-lite, and this opportunity was not her.
Far too many rhetorical questions on this thread.
FFS! No, he does not. The thing is the more you lot misrepresent (or lie, to put it in plain terms) and crow about loony lefties, communists and the 1970s, the more the people who actually listen to him and read what he has to say can see that it's a load of rubbish and this bolsters his support. You just don't get it do you?
High5 Daz
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As an aside, I see the BBC are riling against Corbyn, or at least they seem to be. Which seems very unusual since they would probably benefit from his leadership. The BBC swinging to the right in recent years has been pretty unsettling.
ninfan - Member"No it was the Tories who split telecoms from postal services in preparation for privatisation".
Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, Ernie
Post Office Telecommunications was set up as a separate department of the UK Post Office, in October 1969
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_Office_Telecommunications
Harold Wilson, well known Tory PM...
Oh my god, your ridiculous pettiness knows no bounds.
Post Office Telecommunications was set up as a separate department of the UK Post Office means it was "a separate department of the UK Post Office".
Since you are keen to quote Wikipedia :
[i]"British Telecommunications, trading as British Telecom, was formed in 1980, and became independent of the Post Office in 1981".[/i]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BT_Group
Up until that point BT was part of the Post Office/GPO
I have no idea what you mean by "[i]Harold Wilson, well known Tory PM[/i]", are you trying to suggest that Harold Wilson privatised BT? I know you're a bit weird ninfan but are you completely bonkers?
The BBC swinging to the right in recent years has been pretty unsettling.
One of the first things the Tories did post-election was very obviously put a gun to the BBC's head. You ain't seen nothing yet.
Double post
No, he does not. The thing is the more you lot misrepresent....
It's really annoying that isn't it. It's like claiming that the Tories want to privatise everything, including the NHS. Total nonsense spouted with regularity by both sides. LW v RW, Nationalise v Privatise, Black v White.
For a member of the more mature age group, old Jezza is a bit of a dab hand on Twitter (ok his team is). It's pretty impressive stuff if you like that kind of thing.
The BBC is biased ...... 😉
Thought I'd get this in before Binners does...
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politics/politics-headlines/liz-kendall-losing-faith-in-aspiration-20150812101013 ]Liz Kendall losing faith in aspiration[/url]
Dazh, that produced a real coke zero down the nostrils moment. 😀
"It turns out...." Was the culprit!!!
Still not had my vetting phone call yet after signing up yesterday.
takes a while Dazh, I think it was about a week before they called me back
They phoned me the next day. I was obviously highly valued 8)
Although I only got my first email from Corbyn yesterday, he was the last, git 🙁 Yvette Cooper emailed me weeks ago. I've even had an email from Alan Johnson singing the praises of Tessa Jowell, quote :
[i]It starts with a look. Then a double take. Then a smile. A moment to work up the confidence and then they come over. Tessa cannot leave the house without meeting new people who want to say hello. I have seen this a hundred times, and believe me it’s not normal – no other politician inspires such warmth.
Tessa is a star. She is Labour’s Kylie - everyone loves her and she only needs a first name. She has a remarkable way with people that generates real affection.[/i]
I have always intensely disliked Tessa Jowell, I dislike her almost as much as I dislike Tony Blair. For me she epitomizes a worthless self-serving New Labour politician. Calling her "Labour’s Kylie" is beyond satire.
Just as a counter to the whole Road To Serfdom bullsh!t, have some [url= https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Great_Transformation.html?id=xHy8oKa4RikC&hl=en ]Polanyi[/url].
Tessa is a star. She is Labour’s Kylie - everyone loves her and she only needs a first name. She has a remarkable way with people that generates real affection.
FFS no one warned me that my inbox was going to be spammed with Labour Party Mills & Boon soft porn. I want my 3 quid back!
It's like claiming that the Tories want to privatise everything, including the NHS. Total nonsense spouted with regularity by both sides
Making up stuff again THM?
No one claims that the Tories want to privatise everything, just the juicy bits. The Tories like profit to be private and loss to be public.
And you are in denial if you want to pretend that the Tories aren't interested in further privatisation of health care provisions in the UK, especially the nice juicy bits with potential for nice fat profits.
[url= https://twitter.com/CorbynWarnings ]https://twitter.com/CorbynWarnings[/url]
😀
Does being a UKIP sympathiser stop you from reading STW threads?
😀
Ernie, I appreciate the discussion has moved on but a note on privatisations, one of the most significant benefits of privatising a state business is in the reduction of future pension liabilities. Also under EU rules it is very difficult to nationalise a private business to the point of being pretty much impractical. Also state owned businesses have more leverage to hold a government hostage, we saw that extensively in the 1970's and the public don't want that again. Just imagine how much worse the disruption would be on the tube if where fully state owned, total chaos.
On a slightly different note, if Corbyn wins I predict he will not be leader beyond 3 years and absolutely not by the time of the next General Election in. 2020. He cannot win a general election and the Parliamentary Labour Party know it, those MPs who backed his candidacy purely to widen the debate are getting their decision now I'm sure
if Corbyn wins I predict he will not be leader beyond 3 years and absolutely not by the time of the next General Election in. 2020. He cannot win a general election and the Parliamentary Labour Party know it
Why can he not win a general election? It's not like the tories have a massive majority, he presents a direct challenge to the SNP hegemony in Scotland, he has many policies which will attract former libdem supporters, and he appears to be mobilising huge support from the labour base support, the young, and apathetic voters. When you add all that up I'm not sure you can be so sure.
Why can he not win a general election?
Well, you see, it goes like this...we just keep saying it over and over and over and over and over and over again and it becomes true. I think...like.
Where is Jack Straw these days?
He's waiting at home for a big pile of cash to turn up. He can't be expected to have an opinion without being paid for it.
he appears to be mobilising huge support from the labour base support, the young, and apathetic voters.
The thing about apathy is that it'll be back, especially with 4.5 years until the next election to get them off the sofa.
jambalaya - Member
He cannot win a general election and the Parliamentary Labour Party know it,
A 3% swing puts the tories and labour back neck and neck. It's no beyond the realms of possibility, particularly with the popular support corbyn is building up.
If his plan is to continue on this vein and build up the labour party from the grass roots , it'll be shooty in for him come election time imo.
[quote=dazh said]
Why can he not win a general election? It's not like the tories have a massive majority, he presents a direct challenge to the SNP hegemony in Scotland, he has many policies which will attract former libdem supporters, and he appears to be mobilising huge support from the labour base support, the young, and apathetic voters. When you add all that up I'm not sure you can be so sure.
The party will implode long before election time.
And, he'll be 71 in 2020, positively doddery 🙂
Wow... Well there's 2 people that should get kicked out of their parties already because of this campaign- Danczuk, and Tim Loughton.
Why can he not win a general election?
Because that would challenge the neo-liberal, free market consensus, and we all know that you're not allowed to do that.
Just to throw another element in here: given that George is barely getting started with his promised slash and burn austerity agenda - as thm never tires of telling us 😉 - and given the increasingly bonkers policy suggestions coming out of their favoured thinktanks, just how popular do you think the Tory party are going to be in another four and a half years? Whats the country going to be looking like by that point?
They say a week is along time in politics. 4.5 years is a bloody eternity.
And remember : the people who are saying that Corbyn can't win were saying Dave couldn't win, right the way up to the exit polls landing at 10 o clock at night on election day.
Personally I doubt corbyns aim is to become next PM tbh, I reckon he's more interested in steering the party away from blair/tory-ism.
binners - Member
Just to throw another element in here: given that George is barely getting started with his promised slash and burn austerity agenda - as thm never tires of telling us - and given the increasingly bonkers policy suggestions coming out of their favoured thinktanks, just how popular do you think the Tory party are going to be in another four and a half years?
Particularly after a tory leadership contest, and even more particularly if Boris wins it! 😆
@Binners. THM's right on that at least, Osborne's really not following austerity at all, it's just a convenient lie- he's interested in slashing and burning, he just doesn't care whether or not it helps the deficit, or even when it makes it worse. The point is the slashing, it's not a means to an end for him.
TBH his privatisation schedule suggests that he doesn't expect them to win the next election either- he wants to get the damage done and irrevocable before then.
Also state owned businesses have more leverage to hold a government hostage,
what, just like the banks?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/well-try-to-oust-jeremy-corbyn-on-day-one-if-members-pick-him-says-labour-mp-simon-danczuk-10451581.html
This is great. Must clear my diary so I can book a ringside seat.
Personally I doubt corbyns aim is to become next PM tbh, I reckon he's more interested in steering the party away from blair/tory-ism.
I think this is partly true, maybe. Regardless it'll be the end result, which can only be a good thing.
Why can he not win a general election? It's not like the tories have a massive majority, he presents a direct challenge to the SNP hegemony in Scotland, he has many policies which will attract former libdem supporters, and he appears to be mobilising huge support from the labour base support, the young, and apathetic voters. When you add all that up I'm not sure you can be so sure.
Also, the naysayers are apparently people who thought Ed did have a chance.
This leadership election has been like a clown car, especially reading Alastair Campbell yesterday saying it's the [i]media[/i] who are making it into a circus.
All the opposition to Corbyn is just galvanising his support, [url= https://twitter.com/RevRichardColes/status/624158078183862272 ]and[/url]
I think one reason why Jeremy Corbyn is doing well is that his words don't sound like they've been signed off by daleks.
I think some people are very naive with regards to the right-wing political elite which controls the Labour Party. The fact that this leadership contest shows just how completely at odds they are with the Labour Party membership emphasises just how powerful they are.
For years their stalinist grip of the party has silence dissent. OK they have clearly made a very major blunder by allowing Corbyn a platform in the leadership contest, but it will be fairly easy for them should Corbyn win to have him replaced long before the next general election.
This is the first real attempt to win the Labour Party back since the hard right first seized power over 20 years ago. Ultimately it will almost certainly fail, the Labour Party cannot be saved imo, as this whole fiasco I have no doubt will eventually prove.
Of course Lab/he can win. The headlines mask the reality - that's why it's so extraordinary that Labour are getting themselves in such a pickle. The we lost because we weren't LW enough/we were too left wing misses the point completely.
They let the SNP steal the false ground of being anti-austerity (no really) and the Tories (thank you NW!) of being pro-austerity and then the other parties collapsed in spectacular fashion - buggered by Scotland and the Lib demos and not connected with the big segments that happen to turn out more than their normal support. Even engaging with the the loyal non-voters as Jezza appears to be doing is a only a side show. They key is getting the main segments of the UK population (and who bother to vote) to trust you again. Hence the cock up over Ed forgetting to mention the word deficit, it mattered because of how they lost the positioning issue.
Clause IV, nationalisation, beards, marks and spencer, are all just part of the silly side show.
Meanwhile in the real world, people get on with running businesses and their lives. Given the low esteem in which we hold these mupsters, it's amazing that people want them more involved in allocations scarce resources. Bizarre....