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Your dislike of referendums is well documented on here thm. Wondered if you had any thoughts about the story above and the lucky escape you had?
Poor Theresa looked both ill-informed on this and failed yet again to grasp the 'answers' part of prime ministers questions...
My dislike of referendums......really?
wow did politically neutral THM just moan about labour today...that is a real turn up for the books....and ignore any of the actual issues of the day..how very partisan and predictable
ANyway I am sure he will address your direct question immediately
EDIT: ah too slow and what a turn up for the books he declined to even mention the Tories
Why not just admit you are a fanboy as the only person not convinced is you
Hmmm, not sure Clive Lewis is that great a loss or if he's really leadership material: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/08/profile-labour-mp-clive-lewis/
if he's really leadership material:
Remember who the incumbent is....
Hold on he is getting the hang of opposition - look how many opposed him today
How many acting members of the shadow cabinet do we have now? We can include Dianne for the sake of argument
teamhurtmore - Member
My dislike of referendums......really?
The smilies don't paste across on here but you seemed/feigned interest in this story the other week:
Another bloody referendum
Strange you seem almost as keen as Theresa to avoid commenting on it today. Seems like a great result and a big relief for everyone in Surrey. Not least it's cabinet ministers!
You are obviously a little confused Julian. Never mind. We certainly don't need another referendum on Brexshit
On Surrey, not sure of details but a little more rhan old Jezza. From what I understand from limited reading, Hodge has played his hand well. He would never have won the R but his stunt worked - seems like he has got Surrey fast tracked on to the pilot scheme for keeping business rate revenues to spend. If true, then May'a comments may be strictly true if opaque
So Surrey, which has high demand for these services has "defeated" the national government. So you may be correct a good deal for Surrey. Let's see if the detail supports that view
Well done Hodge then. Curious why May needed to be so opaque about it then. Let's hope the pilot is a success and extended to less, errr, 'politically sensitive' councils too, eh?
You are obviously a little confused Julian. Never mind. We certainly don't need another referendum on Brexshit
No. The 'swerve and patronise' is below the standards of debate I have come to associate with you thm. The last answer was great: shame you didn't type it first.
You are quite clear on your opinion of the results of both recent referendums (?referenda?) and the appalling misinformation that informed both debates. It seems quite clear you saw the problems and communicated them very well. So it's no suppose to read you saying we don't need another one. I am not sure what we disagree about in this respect (apart from your obvious distaste at being asked to comment on the 'corbyn moment if the day', which you seemed to take an interest in on another thread, on your own thread about Corbyn.
[edited for flirty smiley joke which was a bit crap]
Do you know how many councils are on the trial? I don't.
Julian, I was taking one point at a time, starting with your odd opening line. I have made little comment about referendums per se - unlike you misunderstanding. On our two recent ones, yes I do believe they have been appaling. Not because they are referendums, but because of the appalling level of debate. In one case, Lies with a capital L won, in the other they lost. Both were unedifying - that is what I disliked.
Different thing, see?? I have no strong feeling on referendums themselves. Although in both case I was surprised by the simple majority structure on such important issues.
Anyway this is a thread about the (apparent) leader of HM Opposition so let's not get side tracked.
The 'swerve and patronise' is below the standards of debate I have come to associate with you thm
Does he do something else ?
Anyway this is a thread about the (apparent) leader of HM Opposition so let's not get side tracked.
Indeed. So back to Pmq then as seems to be the tradition...
So how about the faces pulled on TM's bench (May, Hunt and Javid specifically; Hammond otoh seems the master of the straight face under pressure) during JC's challlenge of the Hodge texts? Rather good panto and curious given that even someone not in the cabinet (you, thm) had such a sensible and rational explanation of the events hours afterwards. poor show from TM and the faces on the blue front bench, let's hope Corbyn runs with this and the 'pilot' is actually what it says on the tin.
...of course when you started this thread we were never talking about the leader of HM opposition. I wonder how many of the people in this thread believed on the first page that he would be doing this job for this long? I certainly didn't!
He's leader of the opposition? Every day is a school day 😉
Didn't see PMQ, I was exploring a new place to ride. So can't comment of the Panto scenes. I did hear a funny one liner about someone giving people a headache or words to that effect.
TBH, haven't really follow the Surrey news in detail largely duent the fact that the.R was unlikely to happen/would never have been won
Odd tha Jezza doesn't understand what a pilot is though, don't you think.
Perhaps Newsnight might have some detail....
BTW, is it safe to close the window yet? There was a very nasty smell earlier....
OOI, did you read my first line to this mighty thread?
Jeremy Corbyn MP
(@jeremycorbyn)
Real fight starts now. Over next two years Labour will use every opportunity to ensure Brexit protects jobs, living standards & the economy.February 8, 2017
We're all right, we're all right
Good job that we haven't just had a vote,
Wee nippy unkindly thought this was pathetic, kick a man when his down why don't you!!!
Nicola Sturgeon
(@NicolaSturgeon)
How? You've just handed the Tories a blank cheque. You didn't win a single concession but still voted for the Bill. Pathetic. https://t.co/kDje2GLAeyFebruary 8, 2017
To be fair, the "Real Fight Starts Now" backlash on twitter last night was pretty funny.
Have you seen the Guardian collection DD?
They have some beauties....
All a bit harsh.
Living in Scotland, I can just imagine a Scot saying NS's tweet outloud 😀
And probably the phrase "little sh*te!" in there somewhere.
As far as I can see JC has done little to protect our interests / rights and jobs by not taking a strong enough stance to stay with the status quo. He did little visible campaigning before the referendum and is doing too little too late now.
I'm not saying he should be campaigning to stop brexit, but at least slowing down the process to ensure we don't sleepwalk into a social catastrophe.
The voting through of the unamended A50 Bill will ensure that there would be [i]"[b]no[/b] opportunity" [/i]to do what he suggests, so I suppose, from this point onwards, he can't fail to take [i]"[b]every[/b] opportunity".[/i]
Depressingly useless.
br - the comments on wee nippy's ****ter page suggest that she does not enjoy overwhelming support for her ideas, but hey ho when has that stopped her.
Was never his biggest fan but was prepared to give him a fair crack of the whip. Now he should just bumble off into his retirement, hopeless is to kind for his performances.
Paul Waugh ?@paulwaugh
Vignette from Commons' Strangers Bar: David Davis moves to give Abbott a kiss. She recoils and tells him to **** off. He walked off laughing
10:39 PM - 8 Feb 2017
They have fun in that there Westminster palace dont they!!
Brexit was a no win for Corbyn/Labour but **** me with a bit of foresight they coup have played for a 0-0 draw.
Free vote from the off would have been better. MPs can vote in line with constituents.
*I'll leave the spelling mistake in. But anyone thinking of a coup attempt is weakened by this whole **** up.
[I]teamhurtmore - Member
br - the comments on wee nippy's ****ter page suggest that she does not enjoy overwhelming support for her ideas, but hey ho when has that stopped her.
[/I]
Maybe, but since the SNP are currently the largest party in the Scottish Parliament and have all but 3 of the Scottish seats in Westminster they've certainly got the peoples vote (or even WILL if you like 🙂 ).
And as someone who actually lives in Scotland, I'd rather her than a non-event in charge. At least we know that she won't be bought off like some would (Surrey CC for example).
As far as I can see JC has done little to protect our interests / rights and jobs by not taking a strong enough stance to stay with the status quo. He did little visible campaigning before the referendum and is doing too little too late now.
You don't think that is because he may not actually be that into the EU?
I think that is true and yet he failed to take a stance of principle on the issue
I think its an open secret he is no fan of the EU an would have been campaigning for out were he not the leader of the labour party,
I think we have found that the majority of MPs are not fans of the EU or if they are they are not that bothered about it
i think they were just worried about incurring the wrath of the electorate by ignoring democracy
where they have failed is in not having a vote about taking the deal re Brexit - what they have is a done deal where we do leave whatever they decide though they may decide how.
IMHO i would be surprised if the deal we get would be passed by a referendum but we will never know.
i think they were just worried about incurring the wrath of the electorate by ignoring democracy
Like I said, they were not that bothered about it. If they were really bothered they would have voted against and accepted the wrath of the electorate.
Plus they are hardly ignoring democracy with a vote that was nigh on 50/50. A vote that close should go to parliament to decide anyway.
Did you catch the news last night?
[i]Like I said, they were not that bothered about it. If they were really bothered they would have voted against and accepted the wrath of the electorate.
Plus they are hardly ignoring democracy with a vote that was nigh on 50/50. A vote that close should go to parliament to decide anyway. [/I]
+1 They wimped out, and now we'll all pay (except they'll no doubt ensure that their pension scheme isn't eroded, unlike everyone else's).
i think they were just worried about incurring the wrath of the electorate by ignoring democracy
Except that they've now incurred the wrath of the 48% who didn't vote for Brexit, and those who are so rabidly pro-Brexit will vote Tory or UKIP anyway.
They're also completely misunderstood the whole point of a representative democracy - MPs are hired to make the difficult decisions, not the popular ones.
I've come to the conclusion that Corbyn is a Russian sleeper agent.
"Like I said, they were not that bothered about it. If they were really bothered they would have voted against and accepted the wrath of the electorate."
This. They clearly think the wrath generated by Brexit will be less than the wrath of not brexiting. Since the wrath of ignoring the referendum would be a few wrinkles muttering 'tut' they must think Brexit is not going to be that bad.
Hired?? Isn't it only the Tories that are for hire Ben?
You've just handed the Tories a blank cheque. You didn't win a single concession but still voted for the Bill. Pathetic.
I didn't look at the voting numbers too closely but as I understood it the Tories had a majority with only Ken Clarke voting against, so it would have passed regardless of whether Labour opposed or not.
So NS is being rather disingenuous to Labour, surprise, surprise.
Hired?? Isn't it only the Tories that are for hire Ben?
Hired by the electorate, in that we pick them and pay their wages.
Tories are often for hire in quite different ways.
IMO based on speaking to ex neighbours there was zero chance of the Referendum passing the 15% rise for Surrey. Not sure what sort of deal they where supposed to have got.
Corbyn wanted to trigger A50 immediately in June 2016 so any amendments / White Paper are irrelevant from his perspective
Fast tracked on to pilot scheme - seems they get to keep more business rates to spend themselves. Don't know much beyond that. But as you say R was a bluff and would have lost.
often for hire in quite different ways.
Blair/Ecclestone
Oh, and Keith Vaz. No, hold on. He does the hiring [i]in quite different ways. [/i]
IMO based on speaking to ex neighbours there was zero chance of the Referendum passing the 15% rise for Surrey. Not sure what sort of deal they where supposed to have got.
Well, duh. Pretty obviously it was a move designed to extract a concession because of the embarrassment to Jeremy Hunt and Philip Hammond, who both have their constituencies there. I suspect the Surrey CC chief exec is smarter at political manoeuvring than he is at sending text messages...
Good to see that a weak performance on QT last week is not barrier to high office.
Well done Rebecca L-B and good luck in your new role. Quite a story.
excellent bit in today's Private Eye about how, when JC does weekend work (like the Andrew Marr show), he gets time off in lieu the following week. Bless.
Hate to think what would happen if he were PM and there was a weekend national disaster. You wouldn't see him for days afterwards.
As someone who voted for Jeremy in the leadership election I think he is performing as expected. I think he should fight on until at least 2020.
Good to see that a weak performance on [s] QT[/s] [b]Daily Politics [/b] last week is not barrier to [s] high office.[/s] [b]being JC's heir apparent[/b]Well done Rebecca L-B and good luck in your new role. Quite a story.
FIFY
As someone who voted for Jeremy in the leadership election
which one?
Heir apparent?
You are kidding.....
(and was last week's QT)
You've just handed the Tories a blank cheque. You didn't win a single concession but still voted for the Bill. Pathetic.
And once again the 'Labour Heartlands' of the North of England heave a weary sigh and wish that the SNP would move south of the border, so they'd at least have someone credible to vote for.
She vocalised exactly my feelings in a considerably less sweary manner
*sighs wearily*
And once again the 'Labour Heartlands' of the North of England heave a weary sigh and wish that the SNP would move south of the border, so they'd at least have someone credible to vote for
Some people north of the border think that the SNP aren't. Even her in her constituency, follow @visitgovanhill for the alternative viewpoint
Or ask why primary class sizes are going up whilst university tutition fees are paid for EU nationals
Etc
Heir apparent?You are kidding.....
(and was last week's QT)
Nope, Lady Nugee 's makeover isn't hitting home so they are flailing around for the successor for when JC steps down with "health issues" to keep the project going
Lisa Nandy is now tainted as a Red Tory
QT is not worth the viewing time, Andrew Neil however is great value
binners - MemberYou've just handed the Tories a blank cheque. You didn't win a single concession but still voted for the Bill. Pathetic.
And once again the 'Labour Heartlands' of the North of England heave a weary sigh and wish that the SNP would move south of the border, so they'd at least have someone credible to vote for.
Labour Heartlands = Brexitland
Well, he has finally managed to unite the country - every age group, social backgrounds, and group of voters - including Labour ones - give him a net unfavourable rating.
Wasn't it that 7/10 labour constituencies voted leave?
They're also completely misunderstood the whole point of a representative democracy - MPs are hired to make the difficult decisions, not the popular ones.
Except they only get hired by being popular, and then we expect them to do what they said they would do.
Politicians can't be trusted on big issues, so we end up with referendums. The electorate can't be trusted to do what is right, so we go off referendums and look to our politicians. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Except they only get hired by being popular, and then we expect them to do what they said they would do.
Well, yes and no. Under the Westminster system, it really doesn't matter what most people want, First Past The Post and safe seats mean that a government can get power and do whatever it wants with only 20-25% of people voting for it.
So we now have the situation where the government is going for a hard Brexit which almost no-one wants, even most people who voted Leave.
We really need PR. But we won't get it.
So we now have the situation where the government is going for a hard Brexit which almost no-one wants, even most people who voted Leave.
No we don't but lets not let that get in the way
So we now have the situation where the government is going for a hard Brexit which almost no-one wants, even most people who voted Leave.
We are now in a position where we are leaving the EU, which is what what was sold to the electorate before the referendum and the majority chose.
The self-delusion of the remoaners is quite something to behold.
what is your evidence for the fact they are not going for a hard Brexit?
The EU chief negotiator certainly considers it s hard Brexit
the only difference i can see is that they want to retain trade- without paying on harmonising - which is not going to happen - you accept this- so in essence the fairest categorisation of their approach so far is a hard Brexit though they would like to avoid the tariff part of this but it is not the line in the sand and the PM will accept it.
NOw I dont wish to accuse you of post truth or being a snake oil salesperson but i am not sure what you are basing this assessment on as it is at odds with the europeans, BO Jo, the independent etc
Why do you say this?
Proper explanation not patronising hints please
The self-delusion of the remoaners is quite something to behold.
You do realise that once you use the term remoaners you sort of invalidate everything else you say?
If there's any delusion going on here its from the 'have cake, eat it' crowd, who somewhat unfortunately are presently in charge of negotiations, and I would imagine, once they trigger article 50, are in for the mother of all reality intrusions. It'd almost be funny, given what a bunch of tools we're talking about, but alas we're all going to have to live with the consequences of their monumental folly.
Anyway.... back to Jezza and his pathetic non-leadership... [url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/feb/09/twitter-parodies-corbyn-supporters-deserting-labour-brexit ]A pretty accurate piece in yesterdays Guardian[/url]
Actually, many of our side are growing into the remoaners tag very well....
Jezza's ****ter account has been rather sad this week. Ok, the worlds attention is on another ****ter account, but even so what he tweets during a week of important events just shows how divorced from the real action he is.
It's cruel letting him carry on like this. The puppet masters are the only ones who seen happy
You do realise that once you use the term remoaners you sort of invalidate everything else you say?
Well, remoaner covers what they are doing, and is a little bit easier to type then "self-deluding, truthophobes who are lying about something that was at the time given some slight discussion in the media".
Anyway, back on track, for the thread at least 😉
Labour are polling at 24%, compared to 40% for the May-bot. That would work out at:
389 seats for the conservatives
208 for labour
A conservative majority of 128 seats.
Abandon hope all ye who enter here......
Telegraph readers?Abandon hope all ye who enter here......
Indeed big_n_daft. Northern constituencies currently held by Labour aren't on the target list. Corbyn's priority is shoring up the Islington vote after Laboir coming in 4th in Scotland he's given up there too. Just so terribly inconvenient to have by-election constituencies with a massive Leave vote and another with a nuclear power station. Corbyn needs a Stop the War constituency, not sure where to find one of those though.
Is it just me, or [url= https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/17/tony-blair-debilitated-labour-is-facilitating-a-disastrous-brexit ]is this the first step in the formation of a new political party[/url]?
[img] 
[/img]
Corbyn under preasure over his inaction on Momentum abuse of women MPs and failing to honour pledge to have a women on short list for each Mayoral election.
Kinder Gentler Politics ?
http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_58ad5d82e4b0d0a6ef465753?ir=UK
The Labour leader came under pressure at a meeting of the Women’s Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) as a string of MPs, some on the edge of tears, gave accounts of the attacks they had suffered in recent months
During the hour-long meeting in the Commons on Tuesday, Parliamentarians recounted how they had been threatened with deselection and had felt that Momentum supporters had ‘incited’ harassment and even rape threats.
Which Momentum though? I thought there were about 12 different ones now as they've all fallen into their usual lefty factions. Each more virtuous than the last. There'll probably be 20 by the end of the week 😆
See gif above, Binners.
😆
Had PMQ's on before. Unbelievably, he seems to get worse by the week. If he were a horse, you'd have him shot
I kind of want Blair to return...along with Mandy and Cambell.
I'd love to hear what Cambell would have to say about Jezza over a couple of pints. I reckon he'd go 'Full Malcolm'....
[img] 
[/img]
😆
I'd love to hear what Cambell would have to say about Jezza over a couple of pints. I reckon he'd go 'Full Malcolm'....
He's teetotal, ex alcoholic.
I kind of want Blair to return...along with Mandy and Cambell.
Who's are they going to rope in to be the fourth horseman though?
Good to see the old boy on PMQ, I was worried that he had disappeared this morning. He's certainly been very quiet and his ****ter account is rather sad and empty.
Anything been going on in the meantime?
he's teetotal, ex alcoholic
I know. That's why I'd love to get a few pints down him then ask him what he thought about Corbyn
Whats this dab thing at PMQ all about?
Whats this dab thing at PMQ all about?
It's so we don't talk about Watson taking £500k in funding from Max Mosley. Quick, look at the funny fat man dancing!