Jeremy Corbyn

Damn straight, brother Todd!

What we need is someone popular with teh yoof and gets them to vote anything at all, with morals, ideas and dare I say it 'policies' supported by not just the traditional left, but also swing and even right wing voters and who can get over 50% when we gerrymander the bejeesus out of the next leadership coup.

IGMC

Just an illustration of what would probably happen.

Of course, but it's not something that's impossible to do something about, which is what the likes of Jamba would have everyone believe.

He's just not a leader of a country. End of story.

Don't disagree. Unlike many on this thread though I'm not particularly interested in the whole Jeremy Corbyn personality cult, and more interested in the ideas he represents. It's quite tragic that it's all become about him. The problem with Corbyn is his image, personality and his history, but not his policies which IMO have broad support. If the labour party can find a more competent and charismatic leader then these policies might have a chance of being implemented. It's a big if though, as currently the labour party is bereft of anyone who could win an election. They can't even find anyone to beat Corbyn, which says an awful lot about those who claim to be better than him.

Julian - that's not fair. He has loads of policies, he even makes them up intra day - so much so that he contradicts himself. That is why he is such good value and worth 346 pages of comment. He has 37 policies on FoM alone. Ok, I exaggerate, 30....

He's a genius. Most politicians have to go to focus groups or advisors. Not ond Jezza. Just make it up and mix it with his old bird Di De and you're off.

Is he in Marr tomorrow, that could be another handful of policies.

As an aside, WTF have politicians got to do with an exchange between the suppliers and providers of labour?

Thm, it's a novel way of generating ideas I'll grant you, like a sort of comedy scattergun approach.

Only somehow some of these crazy ideas keep being popular with unexpectedly large numbers of not always very left wing people. What if that crazy "chuck an idea out there and see what the surveys of actual voters say" became the new focus group? Seems to have worked for brexit and the comedic and unelectable trump and yet JC is far less heavy on the "Mis-speaks".

Thm you are excellent at arguing the policy not the man but the other thrust of this thread is "no policies and out of touch". His responses to NHS crisis and this crazy salary cap idea seem to challenge this, twice in a week, who knew?!

And amazingly, despite the chaos that is brexit and the Conservative party at the moment, Labour seems to have the relative luxury (who would want to lead the U.K. right now?!) of an opposition PM who is not going anywhere so a couple of years left to turn them into a costed manifesto.

Remember when the opposition didn't have to firm much quite so much of this up less than 2 years after losing a GE? Feels like those days were only 5 or 10 years ago... 😉

This all must be terribly perturbing.

I think I missed his substantive NHS policies other than get rid of the Tories. That's doesn't seem to be going down to well at the moment. very odd...

But you are correct, saying silly things has worked wonders for the Brexshiteers, for Trump, the SNP, so the perplexing thing - given that trend - why not for our old mate Jezza? Very odd.....very odd indeed.

What a sad bunch you lot are!

Still arguing over somebody that will never/will ever lead the UK.

Guilty as charged, arguing about JC on the internet on a Saturday night. Many who voted for him as leader though believed he could win. Still do.

The problem with Corbyn is his image, personality, [s]and[/s] his history and [s]but not[/s] his policies [b]none of[/b] which IMO have broad support

@dazh I think you'll find his policies have very little support. We all appreciate the sentiments it's his reaction to them, ie his policies we don't agree with.

I think you'll find his policies have very little support.

Remember what I was saying earlier about your tendency to present your opinion as fact? Up here in the grim north I can guarantee you that stuff like renationalising the railways, getting the rich to pay their tax, not privatising the NHS, funding schools etc are very popular. Politicians who ignore them do so at their peril.

"Substantive policies.... , again, remember the days when this stuff didn't matter so much 19 months into a 60 month term of opposition?

But yes there is plenty more on record and with public and professional support from Jc about health besides 'win the election'. Actually is that what you meant by "getting rid of the tories" or are you perhaps implying that the owners of failing residential and nursing homes and the staff of profit-making healthcare providers with contracts >250k and offshore tax arrangements are indeed 'the tories'?)

You're correct Julan I DID overlook nationalising care holmes -,sorry I assumed that no one took that seriously.

But I am biased, after three days of NHS care at home I'm afraid I had to bite the bullet and pay for it this week so I am thankfull for the choice. So my view is tainted by current experience.

FFS just get a life you sad pricks! JC is not the answer or the problem, you lot, arguing over him ARE the problem!

As flippant as this comment was probably intended, it actually raises an interesting and very serious point about how the lack of engagement in politics is a major problem 😉

'Nationalise' is a bit sensationalist, non? And not really what he said at all. But don't let that get on the way of a good headline, eh?
Curious about your thoughts on the other bit I mentioned. Again, putting aside hw you administer it, it's such an obvious one in terms of warming the cockles of the average tabloid reader that I am surprised the conservatives haven't beaten him to it and suggested it already.

But I am biased, after three days of NHS care at home I'm afraid I had to bite the bullet and pay for it this week so I am thankfull for the choice. So my view is tainted by current experience.

Indeed. Under-resource, claim it's broken and then offer choice of contracted out profit-making service (I know how much you hate the 'p' word) is the oldest trick in the book. Glad you're staying objective about it.

Crap trick actually, Having been involved in privatisations in the past, I know the real trick is normally to make it look good not awful. Are yo sure that you don't mean asset stripping?

I got the term nationalise from a labour website, forgive me if that was wrong, working out what Jezza is saying is a bit hard these days isn't it.

As flippant as this comment was probably intended, it actually raises an interesting and very serious point about how the lack of engagement in politics is a major problem

..............and this is why the Labour Party will LOSE the next general election. And, these argumentative socialists just cannot see it!

Laughable.

Having been involved in privatisations in the past, I know the real trick is normally to make it look good not awful. Are yo sure that you don't mean asset stripping?

So we [i]are[/i] privatising the NHS? I thought you said we weren't?

I think the trick here is winning over the owners and recipients of the service, and then the voters. Chomsky put it the best, but of course you know that.

Actually its a brilliant 'therapeutic bind.' (google that, and look for the parallels to recruiting people to cults for that matter 😯 )

"Your health service is doomed -a combination of bad fortune and reckless overuse by you and your fellow countrymen are responsible for it, sinner. Oh, and those nasty greedy GP's with their 60 hour weeks. Slackers. But we are the ones that can save you, it will be hard but you just need to trust us."

I'm not sure THM, Jamba, ninfan and cranberry will appreciate being described as argumentative socialists 🙂

They are argumentative though.

Chomsky put it the best

Bravo. 346 pages and that's the first mention (I think) of Chomsky. I sometimes think there should be a Chomsky's law as an opposite to Godwin's. 🙂

Daz my thoughts (btw I said "I think")

Up here in the grim north I can guarantee you that stuff like
1) renationalising the railways
2) getting the rich to pay their tax
3) not privatising the NHS
4) funding schools etc are very popular.

1) Maybe but as someone who has commuted by train for nearly 30 years I'm against and I would say that's the general view down here - strikes, big increases in fares and government debt to pay for all the upgrades, pay rises, extra staff
2) Top 1% pay 29%, tackling tax evasion is something all parties agree on. Non Dom numbers rose massively under Blair. Corbyn doesn't mean getting the rich to pay their tax, he means tax someone esle much more heavily. Middle England knows that means them. The real rich are very mobile, certainly their assets are.
3) No one is privatising the NHS, plus see the other thread
4) Tories ring fenced education against necessary budget cuts overall. There simply isn't the money to do more at the moment

Boring!

Can you not take this argument to somewhere else? Seriously, the ' I love, I hate' JC discussion is wearing thin with everybody else!

Bravo. 346 pages and that's the first mention (I think) of Chomsky.

8)

My posting history over the last year would suggest I miss a great deal that goes on here these days, but I don't hear Chomsky often if ever mentioned on stw. Funny considering the sorts of posters on here, and how often I hear of him elsewhere in internetland.

But then the reverse is true for red dwarf and Hg2g jokes though.

@Toddboy it's not obligatory to read every thread.

or comment on them!

Whatever. Just getting bored with you two loving JC all the time.

Maybe but as someone who has commuted by train for nearly 30 years I'm against and I would say that's the general view down here - strikes, big increases in fares and government debt to pay for all the upgrades, pay rises, extra staff

I'm not sure Southern Rail commuters would agree. I have yet to meet a single person in this country who would say 'Yes, I think the railways are really good'. We've had 20 years of rail privatisation. That should have been enough time to fix the problems of British Rail, no?

No one is privatising the NHS

Again, absolutely no one I know would agree with this, and that includes a fair number of GPs, hospital doctors, nurses, social workers, paramedics, ambulance drivers and others who work or used to work in the NHS. In the NHS the privatisation agenda is an accepted fact, and the general pubic are not far behind.

Toddboy - Member

Whatever. Just getting bored with you two loving JC all the time.

It's a 346 page thread and i have posted on it on about three days of the 18 months it has been running. Is that 'all the time?" In fact you have about four fewer posts on this thread than I do. 😛

[edit] dazh, THM insists that whatever it is that is happening, the NHS is not being privatised. Although perhaps he may be warming to his idea in his last post above. In a way i don't disagree with him, its not as straightforward a change as it was when the railways or untilities were privatised, but then neither is the nature of the business. 'Choice' in the health service is still largely an illusion and also not one that currently 'cost to the cosumer' is a factor in, (as it might be for me in terms of which long-distance train service or energy [s]supplier[/s] broker, but also we are not really consumers of healthcare in the way we are of train journeys, bus rides, gas/water/phone/electricity.
However in terms of health and indeed statutory social services, what we do need is a cross-party term for whatever is happening that factors in the profit and commercial interest into 'doing things 'for free' to/for sometimes desperate and vulnerable people that would rather not need to use your service at all'.

Whatever. Just getting bored with you two loving JC all the time.

Blimey, if you think this is boring what will you make of the 20,000 posts on the EU thread. We've been saying mostly the same stuff for what 9 months ? 🙂

Again, 'whatever'.

I really couldn't care less about counting posts/comments/or whatever gets you going.

It's just seeing this JC thread all the time here that really bores the life out of me!

It's just seeing this JC thread all the time here that really bores the life out of me!

Have you considered not clicking the link?

It's just seeing this JC thread all the time here that really bores the life out of me!

And yet you keep clicking and commenting on it! What's up, is the rest of the forum even more boring?

Pro tip: there is another page with more bike-related stuff and another one with stuff for sale on it too. and on the chat page, the ones about big diy projects are great fun.

Again, absolutely no one I know would agree with this, and that includes a fair number of GPs, hospital doctors, nurses, social workers, paramedics, ambulance drivers and others who work or used to work in the NHS. In the NHS the privatisation agenda is an accepted fact, and the general pubic are not far behind.

You do know that GP services have always been privatised? The question is why won't JC nationalise them?

The old boy is on Marr now - looking q smart

One of the panelists on the news quiz on Friday night summed it up, he doesn't actually remember he is leader of the labour party and gets confused when reporters ask him about stuff this Jeremy bloke has been saying.

Oh dear his understanding of Brexshit is vague to say the least

Lots of cliches but no answers and still peddling inequality despite it falling for some period now

Damn Tory press!

😉

And struggling on FoM

Marr having fun now!!!

"Do you still agree with yourself?" 😆

Biased media ^2 😉

Marr pi¥¥ taking is amusing. Subtle but hard hiting

(Horrible socks - did he get dressed in the dark?)

He's not very slick yet at avoiding the question "How are you going to pay for this?". Burbling on about "bargain-basements" and the like....

More entertainment coming up - Andrew Neil interviewing Piers Morgan about The Donald. 😯

I dont see the problem with talking about inequality even if it is falling. Its higher than most other countries. Corbyn wants the gap to decrease, we all do right?

More interesting than Corbyn on Marr is Len McClusky and Gererd Coyne both being interviewed on Pinnaers Poltics on Five Live about the leadership of UNITE. This shows exactly where the Labour Party is at the moment.

Len, like Corbyn, just sounds like a dinasaur who's political compass was calibrated in 1975, and hasn't moved an inch since. They're incapable of moving on, and engaging with the world as it is. It's no wonder they're totally failing to engage with voters. Who on earth still identifies with this type of language, and confrontational us and them attitude? Clearly not many people, judging from the polls

He has also introduced the phrase 'hard right' to describe those within the Labour Party who oppose the glorious leader.

At least Coyne addresses relevant issues facing labour voters, or former voters, and the direction of the party. For example, in the upcoming Copeland by-election, why would a worker at Sellafield vote for a party with a leader who has railed against the nuclear industry for decades.

Coyne was on Sohpy Ridge's show binners. Spoke sense as far as I am concerned.

Corbyn provided more comedy gold as Footballers are to be excluded from a wage cap as they "are only with their clubs a short time", like 15 years 😀 I don't have too many stats on CEOs but I'd wager on average they last substantially less than 10 in the top job. At least we understand where Jeremy's loyalties lie, forget business people it's wendy ballers all the way.

We have a workingpop of around 30-35m and the focus is on the wages of 100 of them!! What's that as a percentage? How many zeros after the decimal point??

Nice priorities!

Glad Jezza wasn't too downhearted about this morning,

On @MarrShow this morning we discussed @Theresa_May's chaotic Brexit, the #NHSCrisis & how Labour will build a more equal society #Marr pic.twitter.com/rpzasiB1Sk

Nuclear power = not a bad thing ( this week )

Mr Corbyn markedly softened his tone on nuclear power, insisting that Britain’s civil nuclear power stations would remain “for a long time” and could expand. In the past he has called for them to be decommissioned.

Not the first time that Labour has had a "pretty straight kinda guy" as leader.

@cranberry #sellout 😉 good call there is no way the UK meets pollution reduction targets without nuclear. Unfortunately the answer is not flogging the old ones but building new ones.

teamhurtmore - Member

We have a workingpop of around 30-35m and the focus is on the wages of 100 of them!! What's that as a percentage? How many zeros after the decimal point??

Nice priorities!

The problem is, Corbyn should have had a [i]much much much [/i]better reply to this. Something like "It's interesting that when I mention high earners, people immediately focus on footballers and completely forget that the wealth of the richest X number of people in Britain is the same as Y% of population. That's the inequality that needs focussing on..."

Why did Jezza open with the wages of the FTSE 100 CEOs then?

Corbyn and his comrades in Alliance for Workers Liberty / Momentum are ABSOLUTELY obessed with the wealth of the few. It's central to their anti-capitalist beliefs. You don't think a Shadow Chancellor who is a self proclaimed Marxist is not obssesed with the wealth of a few ?

Corbyn has said footballers will e exclused from the salary cap, I fear for F1 drivers, golfers and rugby players though as they don't benefit from representing the "working mans" game. They will be lumped in with the CEOs and put to the financial sword. Wayne Rooney is ok though, phew !

I don't get your comments jambalaya. Which bits do you agree with and which bits don't you?
You seem to ridicule every aspect, which is exactly the problem. Why not focus on which bits you agree with and broaden the discussion and find solutions, instead of seeking to shut it down.

For example, if you don't agree that inequality needs managing, surely that's the important thing to focus on, not all the guff you posted above.

F1 drivers all live in Monaco. CEOs wages are out of control and they kind of decide what to pay themselves dont they? Shouldn't any decent CEO want his workers to be paid more?

Also are Non Doms included in inequality stats? What about shares as pay etc are they included in the figures?

Footballers getting paid loads fine by me. Super high unaffordable-to-most ticket prices not OK. (Yes I know stadiums sell out at these super high prices)

Corbyn and his comrades in Alliance for Workers Liberty / Momentum are ABSOLUTELY obessed with the wealth of the few.

Hold on.. that's a little bit disingenuous.

It's not the wealth of the few that's the problem. It's the ratio of their wealth to that of everyone else. In other words, that people are hoarding it for themselves instead of sharing it.

Quite an important point, don't you think?

F1 drivers all live in Monaco

Shouldn't any decent CEO want his workers to be paid more?

No. That would cut into the profits of the company and the shareholder dividends.

It's not the wealth of the few that's the problem. It's the ratio of their wealth to that of everyone else. In other words, that people are hoarding it for themselves instead of sharing it.

How much do you earn, molgrips?

If it's more than me, howsabout just giving me some of it, then?

I'm fairly sure that is not how [s]jealousy[/s] [s]socialism[/s] jealousy works

Them have got it and I haven't - how can that be fair, just because they are cleverer, took more risks, invested more, were luckier than me.

If it's more than me, howsabout just giving me some of it, then?

Depends - how much do you earn?

If it's a pittance, then I already do. But that's pretty facetious, and an argument in favour of higher taxation and spending rather than this particular policy.

Point is that if a company does well, then everyone's contributed. So maybe they all deserve a part of the success?

Them have got it and I haven't - how can that be fair, just because they are cleverer, took more risks, invested more, were luckier than me.

All of the above are down to luck (mainly genetics combined with parenting/schooling/inheritance etc,.)

Difficult to stop one person being luckier than another but the rewards for that luck should not be so great.
(And no jealousy here, I earn a good wage but openly admit it is more luck than anything else - it is being able to admit it that comes with maturity although some people never can bring themselves to it)

Point is that if a company does well, then everyone's contributed. So maybe they all deserve a part of the success?

[b]COMMUNIST!!!!![/b]

I'm not saying (and neither is Jez) that people can't be rich.

Just that it's a bit off when people hoard tons of it and don't share it. Don't we teach our kids the same thing?

Just that it's a bit off when people hoard tons of it and don't share it.

Scrooge McDuck isn't real. They don't actually sit on a big pile of gold coins. Rich people invest their money in coke, hookers and.. business opportunities. They fund the businesses that we work for.

or example, if you don't agree that inequality needs managing, surely that's the important thing to focus on, not all the guff you posted above.

Alex I have posted on this. Raise minimum wage / living wage. Address GIG economy undermining wages and employment rights for example.

@molgrips wealth inequality is driven by house prices in the South East. It's not about "hoarding money" IMO.

Why has the rest of the country not responded better to the move to services from manufacturing ? We do have a problem with lack of regional diversification. Because state employers are so important outside the SE when the state's finances suffer its more noticable outside the SE. As a good MTB mate of mine said in his city in Dorset the prison and hospital are the dominant employers.

Nice to see a clear concise reaction to TM's statement on Brexit from the glorious leader

Like they'd asked a particularly befuddled old bloke in a retirement home for the terminally bewildered what he thought about it...

Poor old Emily Thornbury on Channel 4 news now (in Jezzas customary absence) trying to explain labours position, when there clearly isn't one. Or there are several different ones, daily

Did he have dandruff on his shoulder (Sky interview) ?

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/821359347015950336

Lady Nugee crashed hard on C4 news just now. Floundering.

Crap - don't have access to a TV at the moment, but I do love watching her make a fool of herself.

To summarise:

"What is the Labour Party's policy on Brexit?"

"Sorry, but I haven't got a clue"

"What is the stance of the Labour Party to today's statement then?"

"Nope.... sorry.... no idea on that either...."

Repeat to fade....

Nice to see a clear concise reaction to TM's statement on Brexit from the glorious leader

Like they'd asked a particularly befuddled old bloke in a retirement home for the terminally bewildered what he thought about it...

Yes, he should have been f***ing incandescent, but instead he's like some old fart in the library that can't find his flat cap.

He's been on ****ter and sounded slightly vexed

"What is the Labour Party's policy on Brexit?"

"Sorry, but I haven't got a clue"

"What is the stance of the Labour Party to today's statement then?"

"Nope.... sorry.... no idea on that either...."

Repeat to fade....

Tell me that there was weapons grade arrogance and a toxic level of smugness...

Actually, you don't need to, I *know* there was - she is incapable of anything else.

For someone with absolutely nothing to say, she did seem quite pleased with herself

Aye, right and "the war has not necessarily developed to Japan's advantage" if we are doing proper understatement. 🙂

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewel_Voice_Broadcast

🙂 thanks every day is a school day, had never heard that before ...

@molgrips wealth inequality is driven by house prices in the South East

You wot?

Are you saying that people are only getting richer becauses their houses are appreciating? You realise that for prices to go up people have to have the money to buy them at those higher prices.... So the house prices follow the wealth not the other way round.

Leveraged bet in a rising market, you take your income advantage say thats 50% and then multIply that by 5 times. Add in foreign demand for London property and ripple out effect ... keep doing that for 10 or 20 years and the numbers get big very quickly. I know many people with same job as me who chose to raise fheir families in central London and as a result have substantially higher net worth. All due to property out performance vs Surrey never mind further afield. Peckham has gone up 90% in 5 years.

IMO the main issue to address is rampant tax avoidance by companies (Facebook included) and unless we get a grip on the GIG economy soon it's going to suck billions out of HMRC. Salary caps are a daft idea. People can get paid what they want focus on taxing them and deal with the massive corporate loopholes.

Absolutely hopeless, and hapless at PMQ's yet again. Swatted aside by the Maybot.

On the whole Brexit issue he does seem to have taken the same role as during the referendum.... that of a disengaged and disinterested observer. Like its happening to other people in another country, and not really something he should be concerning himself with

The role of a backbencher?

The poor Lab lady on the daily politics gets roasted by A Neil. It's rather sad and desperate now.

They're discussing it on Five Live at the moment. Apparently the new cabinet .... you know the one that replaced the last one (the Blairites and traitors who had resigned en masse)? The shiny new one made up of Corbynite loyalists and friendly lefties.....?

Well apparently they are also now heartily sick of the glorious leaders endless procrastination, meetings that go on for days with no resolution, the total failure to be able to make a decision on policy, and just being absolutely useless.

More walkouts expected soon.

Not that it'll make a blind bit difference, of course. As we are constantly reminded on this thread, all that matters is his 'Mandate' from 'The Membership'....

[img] [/img]

He sounded OK in the breif excerpts on WATO. May finished with an attack on his leadership which I'm sure is a seam worth mining.

"BBC Trust says Laura Kuenssberg report on Corbyn was inaccurate"
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/jan/18/bbc-trust-says-laura-kuenssberg-report-on-jeremy-corbyn-was-inaccurate-labour