Jeremy Corbyn

We have a PLP that is what percentage of the labour movment 0.0001% trying to usurp a democratically elected leader

however to try and portray the Blairite coup as the poor victims of bullying is a lasy trope designed to deflect us from the fact they are the ones dabbling in the dark arts of anti democracy themselves.

Again... just a paranoid, delusional bunker mentality

Each one of those MP's has been selected by their constituency associations, stood at a general election, and been duly returned by a majority of their constituents. I fail to see how this is held up as being anti-democratic

The way the left are banging on, you'd think they'd all been appointed as regional chiefs by Tony Himself, sat on a big gold throne in a bond villain lair. I really do feel you need to re-aquaint yourselves with reality. The one going on outside the bunker

This thread is like a room in a pub full of fat old men barking on about stuff they have very little or no real understanding of, whilst getting steadily drunker and more belligerent. Every so often, someone more sober and rational wanders in, and attempts to engage with the drunks, but soon realises it's utterly pointless and a complete waste of time, and buggers off again. The landlord thinks 'oh well at least they keep buying drinks'. Binners has attempted to start a fight with his own reflection in the toilet mirror, and Jambalaya is lying under the table having soiled himself. Someone needs to call time on the drunks, and let them wander out into the dark. And who's going to clean up all that sick?

"*Clod; if you're going to post bollocks on here, then at least follow Binners' example and make it amusing. "

Thanks; if I ever decide to post bollocks on here (I haven't so far but you never know,I could get really, really drunk), I might follow that advice. Meanwhile, your taxis here. 😀

"it was a comprehensive in Warrington with Andy Burnham FFS!!!"

Andy Burnham went to a voluntary aided Catholic school in a small rural town, hardly the tough inner city comp that you seem to be trying to play 'working class top trumps' with! 😆

And he went to Fitzwilliam College, Cambridge. And doesn't seem to have had a 'proper' working class job in his life. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but hardly someone you can hold up as a shining example of a rags-to-riches working class hero.

If you went to school with Andy Burnham, you went to a much 'posher' school than I did!

The Corbynites yourself included are paranoid and delusional

I am not a corbynista and its pretty obvious reading this thread as to who is paranoid and delusional and who is trying to have a rational conversation with a frothing loon.

TBH Binners when you are making jambys constant barbs look measured its time to take a deep breath.

Corbyn's silence on rhe Momentum abuse of NEC members at least adds weight to his argument that his lack of action over OULB etc is not encouraging racism as it shows he allows attacks on all opponents equally.

Some of momentum are very cross and behaving in away they should not be doing and being anti democratic. Corbyn does not authorise these, has criticised them /asked for it to cease. The PLP is ignoring the party, attempting a coup and trying to usurp a legally elected leader with a powerful mandate.

To only attack one side as bullies takes some serious inability to analyse reality. I expected this of rabid RW jambot and his incereasingly irrational wibblings but not you Binners

Each one of those MP's has been selected by their constituency associations, stood at a general election, and been duly returned by a majority of their constituents. I fail to see how this is held up as being anti-democratic

This thread is like a room in a pub full of fat old men barking on about stuff they have very little or no real understanding of, whilst getting steadily drunker and more belligerent. Every so often, someone more sober and rational wanders in, and attempts to engage with the drunks, but soon realises it's utterly pointless and a complete waste of time, and buggers off again. The landlord thinks 'oh well at least they keep buying drinks'. Binners has attempted to start a fight with his own reflection in the toilet mirror, and Jambalaya is lying under the table having soiled himself. Someone needs to call time on the drunks, and let them wander out into the dark. And who's going to clean up all that sick?

Anyway, aside from the ranting, I wonder if [url= http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jul/13/owen-smith-to-offer-referendum-on-brexit-deal-if-elected-labour-leader ]Owen Smith's latest idea [/url] could be a game changer? It's certainly a challenge to Corbyn on probably his weakest policy area. I personally know many Corbyn supporters who were also staunch remainers, and include myself in that category, and whilst I won't be voting this time (£25? Aye right!) it would definitely have me thinking.

I'm upset that any of you think that Jeremy has any responsibility for the actions of Momentum activists

Momentum is an entirely independent and legitimate group standing up for Labour Party ideals, most definitely not a 'party within a party' and bears no links with Jeremy

The way you lot go on, it's as if it's really some form of dedicated Jeremy Corbyn supporters campaign organisation

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09655767

binners - Member
After watching channel 4 news interview with Joanne Baxter last night it would appear we really are heading back to the more pleasant attributes of labour party/Militant politics. Its absolutely disgusting what is now going on. Yet Jeremy and certainly John John McDonnell seem to be far too relaxed about this type of bullying, threats and intimidation, as it suits their ends, ultimately. They may not be orchestrating it, but they're complicit in it by their actions, or lack of them. All very familiar....

i never really took you as one to lap up the media line, quite surprised tbh.

Is this the media line that Corbyn supporters are bullying, or the media line that there is a media line to smear Corbyn supporters?

It's not exactly a secret that Momentum started off as Corbyn's campaign supporters group, so you're deliberately misrepresenting that.

The upshot of all this is that when people in positions of power (in this case the PLP) attempt to usurp and ignore the people who they report to then those people are going to respond in some equally unconventional manner. They can complain about it all they like, but they need to recognise the consequences of their actions. In the meantime some people (like Joanne Baxter) get caught in the crossfire.

"I'm upset that any of you think that Jeremy has any responsibility for the actions of Momentum activists
Momentum is an entirely independent and legitimate group standing up for Labour Party ideals, most definitely not a 'party within a party' and bears no links with Jeremy
The way you lot go on, it's as if it's really some form of dedicated Jeremy Corbyn supporters campaign organisation
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/0965576 7"

😀

i never really took you as one to lap up the media line, quite surprised tbh.

Have you watched it? its an interview with a woman who is labour through and through, on Channel 4 news, who is clearly visibly terrified and shocked at the threats and intimidation she's been on the receiving end of from Momentum members.

Thats hardly an editorial in the Sun, is it?

I'll ask the Corbyn supporters again though:

How do you think this violence and intimidation is being viewed by the wider electorate, say a floating voter in a marginal constituency? Do you think this rent-a-mob behavior, which is so similar to the tactics of the Militant Tendency int the 80's, is going to be a vote winner?

" who is clearly visibly terrified and shocked at the threats and intimidation "

😆

You really are fantastic value for money, Binners.

So she was just faking the tears in a cynical strategic ploy to discredit JC and Momentum?

She's very good at it, right up there with Gwynnie.

who is clearly visibly terrified and shocked at the threats and intimidation she's been on the receiving end of from Momentum members.

Given that the PLP were blatantly trying to gerrymander and engineer a new leadership election without Corbyn on the ballot, do you not think they and their supporters bear a large amount of responsibility? The NEC members should never have even been put in the position of having to vote on it, as it was clearly against democratic principles and common sense.

I think I'll bow out of this thread. I genuinely am finding it pretty depressing. The slow, messy death of the labour party appears to have been reduced to two bald blokes fighting over a comb. But one of them is getting a bit lairy and is off home to take it out on the wife. 😥

It was a good performance. 😕

"But one of them is getting a bit fighty and is off home to take it out on the wife."

Ah come on Binners; your wife doesn't deserve that. 🙁

How do you think this violence and intimidation is being viewed by the wider electorate

It looks terrible obviously. But so does spending a year undermining and plotting against an elected leader with a massive incontestable mandate, and then attempting to depose him through underhand procedural means to deny the party the opportunity of electing him again. This thing goes both ways, but of course the media only presents one side of it. To quote a cliche, 'Live by the sword, die by the sword'.

How do you think this violence and intimidation is being viewed by the wider electorate, say a floating voter in a marginal constituency?

Do you think this rent-a-mob behavior, which is so similar to the tactics of the Militant Tendency int the 80's, is going to be a vote winner?

Neither the Momentum response nor the PLP cause - IGNORING the wishes of members- is a vote winner nor an edifying sight
I will ask again why are you only focusing on one side and not the other? Why is it ok for the PLP to ignore the party?

Given that the PLP were blatantly trying to gerrymander and engineer a new leadership election without Corbyn on the ballot, do you not think they and their supporters bear a large amount of responsibility? The NEC members should never have even been put in the position of having to vote on it, as it was clearly against democratic principles and common sense.

It doesn't excuse threats, intimidation and violent acts

That forces ordinary decent people out of politics and further widens the disengagement.arguably a contributor to the Brexit vote

And i think Corbyn should be on the ballot, and amusingly i have a vote as well,

It doesn't excuse threats, intimidation and violent acts

You think he is not getting threats from PLP view supporters?
As for violent acts have there been any ? there has just been threats hasn't there and I imagine at an equal level on all sides

Not defending it but nor am I being myopically one sided either.

Is there any concrete evidence the 'intimidation' ( 😆 ) was actually carried out by Momentum members/Corbyn supporters? Because it's just as feasible that it was right-wing agitators as it was Corbynites, let's face it.

"I think I'll bow out of this thread."

No come on Binners; it needs the comedy element to keep it going.

This really has become an existential battle now. The terms put on the membership for eligibility to vote by the NEC are shocking and the manner of their formulation worse. I think Corbyn will end up leading a aprty of the left with a liberal, centrist party coming from the PLP and the remainder of the lib dems and maybe even a few softer, pro europe tories. might make a coalition a possibility in 2020.

You think the PLP has not done this to corbyn?

Emails and calls from McDonnell don't count

Is there any concrete evidence the 'intimidation' ( ) was actually carried out by Momentum members/Corbyn supporters? Because it's just as feasible that it was right-wing agitators as it was Corbynites, let's face it.

Are you a journalist for the Morning Star?

Emails and calls from McDonnell don't count

At least Binners rants were amusing your just look like you are trying to live up to the later part of your user name

That forces ordinary decent people out of politics and further widens the disengagement.

As does ignoring the democratic choice of labour party members in favour of an elite who time and again have demonstrated that they hold their own personal career interests and those of their supporters above the wishes of party members and voters.

I think what's clear is that this fight, although utterly destructive to the labour party's electoral ambitions, needs to be seen through to it's conclusion. I don't know what that conclusion is, but it needs to happen before the rebuilding can occur. I note this morning that the green party are talking about a broad left electoral pact with a common goal of proportional representation. That to me would seem like a very good idea.

Some analysis by people who aren't drunk blokes in a pub:

in favour of an elite

What the elected MPs who probably come from all walks of life? These people have been in the Labour party years and an in many cases worked from the ground up, after all they had to get their local party to select them to stand as an MP. Compare that to the membership which has plenty of Jonny come lately £3 types who have never had to work within the Labour party or contribute to it.

FFS this debate is shit its just folk adhering to their own biases and not bothering with facts or debate

At least Binners rants were amusing your just look like you are trying to live up to the later part of your user name

I thought it was humourous and potentially have some basis in reality 😉

McDonnell has too many skeletons in the cupboard to lead Labour so JC has to stay or the whole "project" collapses. Lisa Nandy the heir apparent is clearly not ready.

I think what's clear is that this fight, although utterly destructive to the labour party's electoral ambitions, needs to be seen through to it's conclusion. I don't know what that conclusion is, but it needs to happen before the rebuilding can occur. I note this morning that the green party are talking about a broad left electoral pact with a common goal of proportional representation. That to me would seem like a very good idea.

PR hurts labour, currently less votes gets them more seats the the conservatives

How many years in the wilderness do you expect? No wonder the PLP are fighting this

What the elected MPs who probably come from all walks of life?

Are you serious?

These people have been in the Labour party years and an in many cases worked from the ground up, after all they had to get their local party to select them to stand as an MP.

Apart from the candidates who were parachuted in to constituencies by Blair and Brown straight from their favourite think tanks and PPE university courses. Funny also how most of these like the Milibands, Balls, Cooper, Burnham et al made it straight to the front bench without 'working their way up', and then wondered why the party's base support abandoned them for the likes of UKIP and elected Corbyn as leader with a massive majority.

PR hurts labour,

In it's current form as a 'big-tent' coalition between left and right, but in a scenario where they split, and in coalition with the greens, lib dems and SNP, it's a much better option.

"I thought it was humourous and potentially have some basis in reality"

Yeah, you know those people who laugh at their own jokes?

[img] [/img]

[url= https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jul/13/corbyn-critics-destroying-labour-party-members ]Gary Younge[/url]

Good piece in the guardian: "Corbyn's critics are hellbent on destroying the party they claim to love"

I think I'll bow out of this thread. I genuinely am finding it pretty depressing.

Have you not played with the posse before, binns?? 😉

Bloody biased media are hardly mentioning poor old Jezza today....

I've had my criticisms of Corbyn, but what about the electrifying way he's led the charge against May's joke new shadow cabinet. It's a morale boost in these dark days the way Corbyn's cut the ground from under ex-goth Hammond's unexpected post in HMT, drawing laughs from Ozzy the iron chancellor's precipitate defenestration. And the way he's questioned the erm wisdom of May's appointment of the Brexit top team of Fox, Davis and the beyond satire Johnson, yeah, they'll work well together to get the best deal...

Either that or he's just been quiet.

Meanwhile, in Angela Eagles own constituency:

I'd say she's pretty much secured her own deselection as parliamentary candidate at any future election there.

What the elected MPs who probably come from all walks of life?

Angela Eagle, for instance? It appears that she was parachuted into her constituency in contravention of party procedure and against the wishes of the local membership. That was in 1992, and it would appear that the PLP has learnt nothing since.

Now we find out that having grudgingly accepted Corbyn onto the ballot, the NEC is busy gerrymandering to get someone else to win. What are they so afraid of? That the membership realises the candidates are useless?

johnx2 - Member
...Either that or he's just been quiet.

Why wouldn't he be?

St Theresa is doing his work for him.

Angela Eagle, for instance? It appears that she was parachuted into her constituency in contravention of party procedure and against the wishes of the local membership. That was in 1992, and it would appear that the PLP has learnt nothing since.

...into what until then had always been a Tory seat, which she won for Labour and which since then has turned into a safe Labour seat. Her decision to challenge Corbyn does seem likely to cost her this seat. I'd say she's showing courage in this probably doomed action, in trying to do the best thing for the country and the people she represents. But there'll be some momentumesque explanation that she's sacrificing her career for, erm, careerist reasons... Hey ho.

ohnx2 - Member
Either that or he's just been quiet.

johnx2 - Member
Her decision to challenge Corbyn does seem likely to cost her this seat. I'd say she's showing courage in this probably doomed action, in trying to do the best thing for the country and the people she represents. But there'll be some momentumesque explanation that she's sacrificing her career for, erm, careerist reasons... Hey ho.

If she doesn't believe she can win and is putting her self up as some sacrificial lamb, she's being destructive in the extreme.

nope. Priority is to get Corbyn out or we've Tories forever.

The thing is I'd not mind Corbyn not looking electable if he was being effective in opposition and holding the government to account. But at the moment he neither appears electable, and this is increasingly worsening as he fails to control the plp, nor is he a credible opposition leader as he's failing to put down government proposals or provide counter policies effectively (which may or may not be his fault but that's kind of irrelevant). If he can't do either what is his purpose?

And whilst I'm not sure Eagle will be much better she can't be any worse.

johnx2 - Member
nope. Priority is to get Corbyn out or we've Tories forever.

Aye, cause a new leader will solve labours woes.

Priority is to split the party and hurry the **** up about it.