Jeremy Corbyn

I hate the party so much that I voted for them in '97?

See - I'm living proof of the theory that the Labour Party can, and will, only win general elections from the centre ground.

Keep going - you're making my case even stronger.

It is very clear from what you post on this forum that you support the far-right fringe of the Tory Party, if not indeed UKIP.

Your guru, whose virtues you extol and whose book you say we should all read, is Dan Hannan - the man who hates the NHS and tells lies about it to Fox TV.

Let's remind ourselves :

So you think you share the same political views as Tony Blair? And that your political views are "centre ground" ?

😆

EDIT : Btw can you provide any links to some of your posts where you sing the praises of the Labour Party, you know, when it was in the hands of the Blairite "centre ground"? Obvious it will be when you were posting as labrat or Zulu-eleven 😆

So you think you share the same political views as Tony Blair? And that your political views are "centre ground" ?

No

But thats the point - you can't win a general election by only attracting support from those who share the same political views as you...

As I posted before @ninfan and I both voted Labour in '97 - winning your safe seats by a bigger margin will not win a GE, you have to have a broader appeal. Labour have to appeal to aspirational voters and that doesn't mean those that want higher welfare payments 😉

1/3 of SNP voters will be voting leave

The Labour Party should attract the sort of people who greatly admire Dan Hannan - the man who is so right-wing that he tells the American people on US national television that the British NHS is a "failed experiment" which makes people "iller" ?

😆

Oh I think my sides are starting to hurt !

**** me i never realised just how right wing Blair was till now

Maybe they are listening to Sturgeon who has said there will be another Indy referendum if Leave wins

You were no closer to correct than usual

As I posted before @ninfan and I both voted Labour in '97

Oh just when I thought it couldn't get any better it just did..........jambalaya supported Blair!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sadly ernie the NHS is not a success. It was a great idea at the time but its not fit for purpose in today's world. There is a very good reason no one does it like us. Did you see the Referendum news piece from retirees in Spain, openly saying the health system there was better which was one reason they live there.

Not this again Jamby the facts dont support your view
You have to be trolling on here the way you just keep saying this stuff
I prefer you when you contradict your own argument rather than just keep re hashing ideas that you have recently had torn apart on the forum by everyone.

You and facts eh not even distant cousins that met just the once.

Shame that you voted for Kahn then Ernie:

[i]"My point is this. I want a big tent, you know, whether you're a Conservative trying to be the mayor of London, or a Labour Party trying to form the next government, we've got to speak to everyone. There's no point in us just speaking to Labour voters, our core vote."[/i]

Sadly ernie the NHS is not a success. It was a great idea at the time but its not fit for purpose in today's world.

Yes yes, no need to make the point.......it's patently obvious that you are as right-wing as ninfan and his guru Dan Hannan.

So you think Tony Blair was great then? As impressive as Dan Hannan?

You lot really fascinate me coz trusting politician is such a foreign concept to me. 😆

In the far east the 1st rule of being a voter is - Never trust politicians coz they will (all of them) sell you off like little piggies to the highest bidders.

As we say in the far east there is No saint in politician but lesser evil. 😆

I was thinking all we need now is for Chewwy to turn up and declare how in 1997 he voted for Blair too. That would really would have made my day. But sadly not so 🙁

So what was it, ninfan and jambalaya, that made you think Tony Blair was closer to you politically than John Major?

Saying the NHS isn't a success makes me want to kick you up the arse with the leg the NHS rebuilt, to demonstrate their fine and lifechanging workmanship.

I'd love to knee you up the arse with the two knees the NHS replaced the ACL in but I can't and you might die waiting (NHS don"t want to do it at all as I am over 50 never mind "wait list issues").The NHS is pretty good at start of life and critical care (inc coming in withna seriously broken leg) but look at the spending per head vs other countries and its impossible to claim we have a world class health service, its massively underfunded and it has been for 30+ years.

Ernie Blair did a decent enough job, lost his way after first 5 or 6 years as most PM etc do, too much focus on "legacy" and ego and not enough getting on with the job.

Ernie Blair did a decent enough job, lost his way after first 5 or 6 years....

Let me get this right...... for the first half of Blair's premiership, you, jambalaya, were a Labour voter? (I can't believe I just wrote that)

So what happened.......he abandoned the "centre ground"?

Did he go all "lefty" ?

EDIT : When did you stop being a Labour voter ninfan? Btw where's these links to your posts when you were a Labour supporter? I can't remember seeing any of them, I assume it was when you posting as labrat?

but look at the spending per head

It's 19th (2014). I don't really think that number alone tells ye much though. or that you can generalise about a whole health care system(that to me is just ridiculous).

btw the country you were bigging up in the last page, spain, was 26th.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.XPD.PCAP?order=wbapi_data_value_2014+wbapi_data_value+wbapi_data_value-last&sort=desc

Pre-hack Ernie, all lost - I've always been open about having voted Blair in '97, despite disagreeing on several policies (but supporting others). Largely because I believe in pragmatism rather than dogma.

jambalaya - Member

look at the spending per head vs other countries and its impossible to claim we have a world class health service

...as long as you think you can measure health service quality by how expensive it is. Which is mad.

ninfan - Member

Pre-hack Ernie, all lost

Oh what a shame, I was so looking forward to seeing posts from labrat, one of the right-wing posters on STW, arguing in favour, and defending, the Labour Party.

So when did you stop being a Labour voter ninfan - when Tony Blair resigned and they abandoned the "centre ground", ie, when Gordon Brown became leader in 2007?

If so how different to you think Tony Blair was politically to his chancellor Gordon Brown, and if the difference was significant why do you think Blair chose someone so "left-wing" and far away from the "centre ground", which you say is so important to you, to implement his economic policies?

Don't be shy, don't be reticent, tell us about labrat/Z-11/ninfan the Labour voter, I'm absolutely fascinated!

look at the spending per head vs other countries and its impossible to claim we have a world class health service, its massively underfunded and it has been for 30+ years.

Non sequitur - that isn't how we measure health outcomes - ie money spent. Why have you said that its beyond belief that you have not realised this is not the best method of measuring efficacy.

Underfunded does not equal NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE - which was your initial claim.

Only missed an appeal to your own authority there.

I believe in pragmatism rather than dogma.

but look at the spending per head vs other countries and its impossible to claim we have a world class health service, its massively underfunded and it has been for 30+ years.

Ah, so you're offering to pay more tax. Jolly good.

So the Labour Party won the Tooting by-election yesterday.

What happened to the predication of electoral annihilation should Jeremy Corbyn become leader of the party from Jamby, the Blairites, Daily Telegraph readers, Guardian editorial writers, and any dodgy political pundit the BBC could manage to drag into their studios ?

Tooting was a very winnable marginal seat for the Tories, Labour's majority was less than 3,000. The Tories should have romped home and provided sensational headlines which declared that Corbyn was the kiss of death for Labour.

Instead no one seems to want to talk about it. Where's the quote from Tony Blair? IIRC he had an opinion about the consequences of Corbyn being leader. Buried under bad news maybe?

And not only did Labour win Tooting yesterday but it gets worse for the right-wing purveyors of doom and gloom, the Labour candidate received more than half the total votes - [u]the best result for Labour in over 15 years[/u]. Tooting is now no longer a marginal seat.

But wait, it gets even worse for the Blairites.

Sadiq Khan by the time of the last general election was a well-known fairly high profile Labour MP. In contrast the Polish-****stani junior doctor who stood for Labour in Tooting yesterday was practically unknown. And yet she did much better than Sadiq Khan did in all his Tooting parliamentary elections.

It is very obvious that this wasn't a personal vote for her but a clear vote for the Labour Party. A Labour Party led by Corbyn.

Whatever people think of Corbyn he doesn't seem to be having a very negative effect on Labour's electoral chances. Well nowhere near as devastating as right-wingers informed us, with complete 100 percent certainty, that he would have.

I don't know who to believe anymore.

You lot really fascinate me coz trusting politician is such a foreign concept to me.

Its all going to go swimmingly until after the referendum

just like with Scotland, Tory mismanagement means that they need labour voters to save the Union (this time with Europe)

but this time I dont think theyll save the vote, with the majority of labour voters blaming immigration for their woes, its gonna be a clusterfk,
Borris PM, Farige in the HoL, Gove and IDS at the front

I really hope thats not the case but Im not holding up much hope for this country at the moment

jamby will be along in a minute with THM to explain it all to us

I did note the resounding victory yesterday and forgot about this thread

Will a new Tory top team mean a call for a G.E?

Maybe Labour would want to leave them in place for a bit if there is to be a post Brexit melt down.

Labour election performance in Scotland and Wales is your guide not Tooting which is a Labour strong hold - I know it well have grown up there in a council house. Also its very rare for by-elections to swing towards a party in power. Anyway go Jezza go, long may be continue he's been a great help to vote Leave with his leadership campaign debate remarks about the EU, his subsequent volta-face and tepid endorsement of "Remain". Looking forward to the public self flagulation over Chilcott and we have Shakri's report to come too - frank investigation with honest results or cover-up ? Time to show some leadership Mr Corbyn

Will a new Tory top team mean a call for a G.E?

A call ? Yes I am sure from Labour, SNP etc. There will be a GE if Parliament passes a motion of no confidence, that I doubt but its possible and the Tory majority will only call one if they think its in their interests so be careful what you wish for. We have fixed term Parliaments now. In this country we do not vote for a specific President as they do in the US or France, we vote for a party which then forms a Government and decides who will be in Number 10

Yes from a tactical standpoint it may be better to leave the Tories in charge over the post Brexit peirod and likely Greek default tsunami. Then they can say "look at the mess the Tories have made", might be their best chance

Waaaahhh... Call a referendum on the EU and sacrifice the economy.. Anything, ANYTHING to stop the socialists

Greedy perverts

with the majority of labour voters blaming immigration for their woes

That'll be the Labour voters who yesterday elected a Polish-****stani MP.

jambalaya - Member

Tooting which is a Labour strong hold

Why do you do this Jamba?

Seriously, why do make stuff up which with the power of google and 3 seconds to spare anyone can refute?

Type "tooting marginal" and do a google news search. You will get 530 results. Try it.

http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/next-prime-minister

Ah, so you're offering to pay more tax. Jolly good.

@ransos we've had this conversation many times on here. Be in no doubt I'd be happy to support a tax system which provided world class class schools, healthcare, welfare and a military. We need to have a grown-up debate in this country as [b]NONE[/b] of the current parties Tory, LibDem, Labour or Greens (or indeed SNP, etc) are anywhere close to any such proposals. Just look at the rest of Europe which has had 20% VAT for years and VAT of 5-10% on food in Germany tye tax burden on hoisehold utilities is 48% not the 5% we have in the UK.

As I said it needs fo be a grown-up discussion and the EU Referendum shows how ready we are for that.

And he ignores my question.

From the FT :

[i]"Tooting has witnessed sweeping gentrification that has transformed a once-working-class area popular with many immigrants. The seat also takes in Tory-leaning parts of Wandsworth and Battersea.

While it was once a safe Labour seat, it has gradually become a marginal and was a target for the Conservatives in 2015".[/i]

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0f851a12-345f-11e6-bda0-04585c31b153.html#axzz4BpcXnUhr

So a target seat for the Tories then.

What went wrong ?

EDIT : With Labour receiving over 50% of the vote, as from yesterday, it is now no longer a marginal. It has become a fairly safe Labour seat.

Tooting has never been won by any party other than Labour. Never

So Ernie, you've successfully shown that corbyn is popular with the "aspiring to Islington" left wing London set. Isn't that what we've all been saying for months?

Tooting has never been won by any party other than Labour.

Yes and that isn't going to change any time soon.

Why?

The Tories targeted it in 2015 What's happened ?

The only thing I can think which different to 2015 is that Jeremy Corbyn is now leader of the Labour Party. Wasn't that suppose to help the Tories ?

Can you explain ?

So Ernie, you've successfully shown that corbyn is popular with the "aspiring to Islington" left wing London set. Isn't that what we've all been saying for months?

Let me get this right.

Under Corbyn's leadership Labour won the Oldham West and Royton by-election with a 7% increased vote because it is a solid working-class seat.

And then yesterday under Corbyn's leadership Labour won Tooting with a 9% increased vote because it is a middle-class seat.

And this still proves that Labour is unelectable with Corbyn as their leader ?

I didn't realise that this is "what we've all been saying for months".

Every day's a school day, as they say.

By-election ernie. Anyway as I said rock on JC

I see. So if Labour win all the by-elections between now and the next general election you will still be predicting electoral meltdown for Labour next GE.

I have no idea what the result of the next general election will be, but I'm pleased for you that you still think that it'll be like a walk in the park for the Tories.

Tooting has never been won by any party other than Labour. Never

And they've just had their best result since 1997.

Labour did as well in Tooting yesterday under Coryn's leadership as they did in 1997 when Blair was leader and at the height of his popularity?

I didn't know that.

Blair won't be pleased when he finds out.

Labour win all the by-elections between now and the next general election you will still be predicting electoral meltdown for Labour next GE

What nonsense, sitting governments hardly ever win by elections. In fact its been decades since a sitting government took a seat off the opposition at a by election.

But I thought it was all different now - doesn't Corbyn becoming leader mean that Labour are now unelectable?

In the Mitcham and Morden by-election of 1982 the Tories won the seat from Labour despite being in government. I thought Corbyn being leader meant that Labour had gone back to the 1980s? That's what Blair, Guardian editorial writers, and any dodgy political pundit the BBC could manage to drag into their studios said.

Still, I'm glad you are also predicting that Labour will win all the by-elections between now and the next general election ninfan, presumably all with increased majorities?

Terrible news for Labour.