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Jazz. I dont get it...
 

[Closed] Jazz. I dont get it. Who does?

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^ My oversight maybe, I was being sarcastic and forgot to put the /sarcasm on.


 
Posted : 21/04/2018 6:08 pm
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The new kamasi washington one is top banana

Like a bit of miles davis, even the freaky shit. Christ I even like a bit of sun ra arkestra.

I get jazz much more than some other genres. For example, I’ve never gotten Bowie despite trying.


 
Posted : 21/04/2018 7:27 pm
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Hello Rusty 🙂 I can only agree with the comment that it's a broad genre and that some is more accessible than others; but once you find something you like, that opens the door to the other stuff. I would also say to go and see some live because you get to see improvising when it actually happens. The free jazz wierd stuff is difficult to really get into (much of it isn't actually that good) but there's something for everyone

Albums to try; Kind of Blue by Miles Davis. The sidewinder by Lee Morgan. Head Hunters by Herbie Hancock. A go go by John Scofield. All in the funky vein but with proper solos


 
Posted : 21/04/2018 7:27 pm
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I get jazz much more than some other genres. For example, I’ve never gotten Bowie despite trying.

Intrigued, I looked up what genre Bowie was:  https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bowie

Bowie covered many genres including art rock, hard rock, glam rock, alternative rock, krautrock, protopunk, post-punk, electronica, Blue-eyed soul, New Wave, Industrial, Techno, Jazz, Dance music, Funk, Disco, Experimental rock, Folk, Instrumental, Ambient and house.

This 'genre' thing is confusing the hell out of me!  Just tried this 'Classical' music thing.  Er, no thanks!  Case in point:

PS, OP - tried remembering back to my early twenties when I somehow began getting into different types of music other than my (heavy rock, punk, new wave and metal) staples - and AFAIR it was Gil Scott Heron album that first had me exploring jazz. The LP was entitled 'Pieces of a Man'.  Still love it today.

https://youtu.be/7aRNUsm****


 
Posted : 21/04/2018 7:46 pm
 DezB
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Judging by this thread, jazz is another genre where its all about looking backwards to what’s been done long ago. I think I was the only person to actually mention anything remotely new?

Apart from kamasi washington, who I think I saw on Later and was dull as.


 
Posted : 21/04/2018 8:48 pm
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I love a bit of jazz. Especially Charlie Parker, Oscar Peterson and Ella Fitzgerald.


 
Posted : 21/04/2018 8:50 pm
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Anyone in West Yorkshire wanting a different Friday evening out should try Wakefield Jazz.

RM.


 
Posted : 21/04/2018 9:15 pm
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Same with rock music, does anyone really listen to those crazy cookie-monster vocals and endlessly recycled sub-Iommi riffs and doom-laden lyrics about endless armageddon and necrophilia in mythical places?

Quite partial to some Opeth when I’m in the mood, although I do prefer their more recent prog/jazz-influenced work.


 
Posted : 21/04/2018 10:01 pm
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Traditional Jazz leaves me cold ..however as already has been said it does work it's way into different genres ..Keith Emerson for example was primarily a jazz pianist and I loved his stuff with ELP ..


 
Posted : 21/04/2018 10:08 pm
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I like a bit of jazz, but most of it may be a bit safe by modern standards. Musicians I gravitate towards Are,

Chet Baker, Lester Young, Billie Holiday, Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, Dexter Gordon(probably my favourite), Dave Brubeck.

There is some good modern stuff that crosses over genres,

GoGo Penguin, Kamasi Washington, Too Many Zoos.


 
Posted : 21/04/2018 10:27 pm
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Bowie covered many genres including art......

well yes he did, and to be fair, it is not really that analogous, but I still don’t get any of it, which is the point I’m failing to make


 
Posted : 21/04/2018 10:48 pm
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+1 GoGo Penguin

athgray, a few more contemporary jazz artists I discovered of late:

Emancipator, Alfa Mist, Hiatus Kaiyote

- all worth a listen IMO.

Before I go, have not mentioned Afrobeat.  So here - this cover of Opposite People is THE tittz.  Even my most grumpy face lights like a sunbeam on hearing it.  Call it therapy 🌤!


 
Posted : 21/04/2018 10:57 pm
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Malvern Rider,

Had a quick listen to those. They will go on my playlist. I  like a bit of jazz mixed with hip hop or drum and bass.

Jazz Jousters remix some classic jazz albums with a laid back summer hip hop vibe.


 
Posted : 21/04/2018 11:36 pm
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Black flower


 
Posted : 22/04/2018 12:15 am
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Its all shit isnt It really. Easily the most pretentious of all the music genres.


 
Posted : 22/04/2018 12:28 am
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Great responses - thanks everyone!

You’re all (mostly) rather cultured, innit! 😉

Loads for me to explore here (and I will). I’ll need to save this thread to my favs.

OP


 
Posted : 22/04/2018 12:37 am
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zeesaffa,

Its not necessarily cultured to like jazz. Some like whisky, some rum, some gin, some vodka, some beer, some wine. Jazz is a broad definition, and whisky is a decent analogy

Sun Ra = Laphroaig. (Acquired taste)

Miles Davis = Highland Park (Excellent allrounder)

Chet Baker = Macallan (Sweet and smooth)

There are styles to fit many, but it wont be for everyone. My jazz tastes are at what many would consider the easily accessible end. It need not be pretentious.

There are many words to describe Billie Holidays version of Strange Fruit. Pretentious isn't one of them!


 
Posted : 22/04/2018 12:50 am
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How about a bit of Leo P ?


 
Posted : 22/04/2018 1:00 am
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Thats good rick. I think he is the sax player from Too Many Zoos


 
Posted : 22/04/2018 1:04 am
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Athgray +1

I have quite eclectic tastes but this is one of my all time favourites


 
Posted : 22/04/2018 7:50 am
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Inspired by this thread and the sweet sunset went for a bit of Chick whilst the warmth faded....

Followed by early Chet Baker in Paris..

Currently on a bit of Dexter Gordon and contemplating  Coltrane and a big glass of something....


 
Posted : 22/04/2018 4:56 pm
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Nothing on here strikes a replay it chord with me.

Its not that its shit or  anything it just does nothing for me.

That leo P thing up there for example its great until you arent watching the video. And it get very tedious after the second minute.


 
Posted : 22/04/2018 9:15 pm
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Generally, I find jazz a bit hard work when I've dabbled with it before, but we know someone in a big band that plays some jazz and it's fantastic live. That said, when I heard of the sad pasding of John Miles and his (to me) unknown jazz history, I had a listen to Tamburello and it EXACTLY suited my mood at the time. Looking forward to checking out all the suggestions on here - thanks all. 🙂


 
Posted : 22/04/2018 11:19 pm
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i like jazz (along with lots of other types of music) not a fan of trad but there is so much variety to choose from,

i’m currently listening to some Krzysztof Komeda (Polish Radio Vol 6, but check out his best known work Astigmatic)

the thing i like about jazz is its often complex but i find that actually quite relaxing as its blocks everything else out but still engages the brain.

if you dont' like Jazz then its quite easy not to listen to it, i feel that way about modern pop and shouty rap music but car speakers and mobile phones make that harder to avoid.


 
Posted : 23/04/2018 12:53 am
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☀️ up, shining tarmac, off to the green wilds.  Jazzin' all the way, naturally 😊

YEH BABY YEH

https://youtu.be/05w5ch9l6zI


 
Posted : 06/05/2018 9:44 am
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I pretty much listen to nothing else other jazz these days. It’s a genre you’ve got to ease into and it take a while before your ears and brain adjust. Straight ahead is challenging but if you stick with it you’ll appreciate it more over time.

Try something more accessible first like Snarky Puppy or GoGoPenguins.

To really appreciate it you’ve got to understand what’s going on. They aren’t songs so to speak. Even what today are considered jazz standards are largely improvised  with a fixed phrase (home base) that the musicians will keep coming back to to break up improvised soloing. If you try to appreciate it for what it is rather than like you do other music based on repeated melody phrases you might enjoy it more.


 
Posted : 06/05/2018 4:56 pm
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Chet baker on trumpet ain't too bad


 
Posted : 06/05/2018 5:13 pm
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stanfree

Its all shit isnt It really. Easily the most pretentious of all the music genres.

I'm amazed it manages to survive without your support.


 
Posted : 06/05/2018 5:19 pm
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Two pages and no mention of Fela Kuti. I actually got in to some Jazz through listening to Gangstarr, various other hip hop bands, DJ’s and some of Guru’s solo output. Music is great.


 
Posted : 06/05/2018 8:31 pm
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I believe this be the Jazz the OP is referred to, and I honestly bloody loves it.


 
Posted : 06/05/2018 9:14 pm
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Two pages and no mention of Fela Kuti.

Back up soldier, check the cover of Opposite People featuring Seun Kuti, I linked up-page.  But yes, Fela! Especially Expensive Shit


 
Posted : 06/05/2018 10:34 pm
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I was going to mention Fela but not sure why I didn’t. I was supposed to go and see Seun on Friday but couldn’t make it.

I made up for it by finding a Fela and Ginger Baker live album on iTunes today.

Has Hugh Masekela been mentioned yet?


 
Posted : 07/05/2018 12:16 am
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Loads of interesting leads above, thanks.

I've recently been listening to a bit of Lydian Collective, definitely at the more accessible end of the spectrum but quite a talented bunch.


 
Posted : 07/05/2018 1:34 am
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Don't know what your problem is OP, a great car and you even fit two bikes in the back:


 
Posted : 07/05/2018 6:57 am
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There are many words to describe Billie Holidays version of Strange Fruit.

Too true and here's a modern version which may stray a little from OP.


 
Posted : 07/05/2018 9:30 am
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well yes he did, and to be fair, it is not really that analogous, but I still don’t get any of it, which is the point I’m failing to make

What’s to ‘get’? He was a musician, songwriter and singer who, over the course of many years and albums, covered many different styles. Music, like other art forms, you either like or don’t like, one you start on the ‘get’, or ‘understand’ you’re on a very slippery slope into pretentious twaddle, trying to intellectualise something that is fundamentally about emotions. Genre is another thing that I don’t like, there are many artists whose work gets lumped into a ‘genre’, but doesn’t fit comfortably into, say ‘folk’, or ‘rock’, or ‘jazz’, or whatever, but may have touches of all of those, and more, across a single album, so where does that leave the artist and listener, other than confused? I’m not a jazz fan, by any means, I find much of it self-indulgent, but that’s true of other styles as well, but I love Steely Dan, especially the later albums like Aja, and Donald Fagan’s solo stuff to bits, and there’s a strong jazz element to those recordings. It’s all down to what gets an emotional response that’s important, nothing else, the response I get to a lot of jazz is a sense of irritation and a sort of mental ‘itch’ I just can’t scratch.

Regarding ‘Strange Fruit’, this is the first version of that song I ever heard, late at night on Radio 2, and it was one of the spookiest songs I’d ever heard. Is it jazz, though, or soul?


 
Posted : 07/05/2018 2:14 pm
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Christ, every time I see this thread title, I misread it as "jizz".


 
Posted : 07/05/2018 2:20 pm
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Your eyes are probably knackered from too much staring at the PC and jazzing off.


 
Posted : 07/05/2018 3:06 pm
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I find much of it self-indulgent, but that’s true of other styles as well, but I love Steely Dan, especially the later albums like Aja, and Donald Fagan’s solo stuff to bits

Synchronous! I heard Fagen's Morph The Cat yesterday for the first time.  Never *was* a big fan of Steely Dan from a distance, but hearing this hit the spot and some.  Some exploring to do... 🙂

I suppose most people have their preferred version of Strange Fruit, for me it was Nina Simone in that I think she did it most credit 😥


 
Posted : 07/05/2018 3:46 pm
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The Soft Machine need a big(ger) mention?  Breaking boundaries all those years ago.  Robert Wyatt and Lyn Dobson especially.  Never enjoyed most prog rock so much, and always balked at ELP etc.  But the Soft Machine were something else entirely, as their considerable jazz chops proved. This performance truly blew my mind first time I heard it and the more I listen the more it seems to reveal.  There's something about such musicians - clearly at the top of their game, locked into a tight duel/dance that goes way beyond jamming.

Not really for short attention spans (and I'm pretty bad for that) but deserves sticking with IMO as it reaps rewards.  Has me looking for contemporary bands that even sort of hit this level of musicianship, any suggestions greatly appreciated as only discovered this piece in recent years?  It also got me somewhat into National Health and Matching Mole.  Mrs Rider likes loads of music from punk to folk, but always leaves the room in a quickness when I play this stuff 🤣   Beyond this, of course, there's  'Zeuhl' music.  When I'm politely forced to take my ****ing speakers elsewhere.  Thank AKG for cans.


 
Posted : 07/05/2018 7:14 pm
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Music, like other art forms, you either like or don’t like, one you start on the ‘get’, or ‘understand’ you’re on a very slippery slope into pretentious twaddle, trying to intellectualise something that is fundamentally about emotions.

Speak for yourself. There aren't many things as ignorant as a person who "knows what I like". What is this ridiculous notion that if you like it, it's good; if you don't, it's not? And all art is self-indulgent - that's the ****ing point of art. Or do you think it's there just to entertain you?

Jazz is a complex mix of rhythms and melodies, timings and impetus - it's hard to play but incredibly enjoyable and always challenging. Sometimes the relationship between the instrument parts is clear-cut, or at least relatively so; sometimes it's a bit harder to hear. You have to remember that, whether you like what is being played or not, the player is highly skilled. That alone can take a piece away from the casual listener, especially so if they don't play. A good way in is usually through the drums - they'll (usually) be the simplest musically, so you just need to identify and follow the beat. The same is true of pretty much all music, by the way. If you concentrate on the drum's cycle, then you'll hear how the rhythm instruments (bass, keys, r.guitar, for example) follow and how they create a link to the melody of the lead instrument - with Miles Davis, that's the trumpet; Coltrane it's the sax. Whatever, it's the instrument carrying the most distinctive melody. The lead instrument often has a vocal quality to it. Coltrane, for instance, often has a really 'vocal' technique to his playing, and I understand he often wrote poems that he would build a piece on. The lead will tend to be the most emotional, or expressive, as the musician is, dare I say it, indulging themselves. But don't forget that what they're playing is supported by the dynamic created by the rest of the band.

As you learn to follow a single rhythm, the roles of the other instruments becomes clearer. You don't have to 'get' it all - how would you? - but you'll start to understand more as you hear the interplay between instruments. As you become more experienced, you'll begin to hear some absolutely amazing routes, arcs and departures that different parts take before converging onto a single beat. That's the beauty of jazz. And it's like life: the more you know, the more you have to appreciate and enjoy. Just remember to allow yourself to be amazed and surprised by what you don't know, rather than pour scorn on it.


 
Posted : 07/05/2018 8:52 pm
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I would have thought Bach would be better preparation for maths exams

Traditionally jazz musicians' favourite classical composer. Rules, clarity init? I dunno. This is probably jazz...


 
Posted : 07/05/2018 9:04 pm
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Judging by this thread, jazz is another genre where its all about looking backwards to what’s been done long ago

this is kind of what gets me with jazz. There’s a shit load of amazing music but for me it mostly spans from ‘58-‘65 (plus the electric Miles of the early 70’s).

I can just about get the free ornette stuff, and Coltrane post 65 is a bit a push. I saw Elvin Jones (late 80’s iirc which was probably the most inspirational, musically, gig I’ve been to.i had rhythms running through my head for days).

but ‘modern’?

worht checking out lee Morgan - sidewinder, herbie hancock - watermelon man, flamenco sketches & on the corner, Coltrane plays the blues, Duke Pearson - ESP, Getz & Gilberto, Mingus (that live one with Eric dolphy with Fables of Faubus tales & Blues & Roots), Donald Byrd - band and voices. The blue note ones also have awesomez covers...

for modern ‘challenging’ stuff I prefer the classical avant garde (minimalist mostly). Yes, I am that far up my own arse.... 🤣 nice... 👌

https://youtu.be/Tbi3_HIzpfo

https://youtu.be/_m9imNthFBA

https://youtu.be/F3W_alUuFkA

https://youtu.be/ABW6wkkdQXI

https://youtu.be/eNWDwOsQqlw


 
Posted : 07/05/2018 11:24 pm
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Have we had the proper version yet?


 
Posted : 07/05/2018 11:40 pm
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Suspect then you need to look at snarky puppy and too many zoos. Or Vulfpeck for a jazz funk crossover

I played in some shit jazz bands when I was young. And there is a lot of shit jazz out there. But there is some great stuff too.

thing is, there is only good music and bad music and the genre or label  is unimportant


 
Posted : 07/05/2018 11:51 pm
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