Surely they must be the winners for this years darwin awards? They even managed to set off an anti tank mine while they were at their silly folly.
Did they really think they could waltz over one of the most heavily fortified borders in the world?
Well the Palestinians have gained my admiration for their defiance, and the actions of the Israelis has filled me with even more contempt for them - if that's at all possible. The "border" is totally illegal.
Let's be fair here, the IDF say they gave fair warning. I mean you can't ask for more than that can you...a quick shout before being machine gunned. I'd say that amounts to the IDF softening up a bit.
Try repeatedly clambering over the fence at Buckingham palace or downing street or at faslane and see how many seconds before you get shot.
Wot ernie said.
The exploits of the state of Israel are an affront. The support that the west gives to them is a disgrace. Murdering bastards.
Why Joe? Have you tried?
Otherwise what ernie and yossarian said.
I wouldn't try it because I understand the consequences. Its like jumping off a cliff. I wouldn't try that either.
You're too clever a bloke for us eejits.
Can't stand the Israeli state, can't believe the world lets them away with pretty much anything they want to do, the state was basically formed on nothing better than ethnic cleansing.
Seriously, try finding an American forum and try posting some of those 'IDF are mean' ideas on there. I was going to say anti-Israeli, but i don't want to argue semantics
.....and the Palestinians are completely blameless...
Considering how other protests are handled in Syria it would appear this may be more state sponsored than grass roots protest.
None of the states in that region are exactly stable with a clean human rights record, not that it excuses Israel.
The Israelis kill unarmed Palestinians, including children, every week. The only difference with these latest killings is that it's making prominent news headlines. Tragic as it is, it will yet again show the true nature of the Israeli regime to the world.
With every week, month, and year, that passes, the Israelis lose a few more of their very few remaining friends. The Israelis might think that all they ever need is the support of the US government, but one day that won't be enough.
....and the Palestinians are completely blameless...
Are you suggesting that they are guilty of living on the land which God promised the Jews ?
The Israelis kill unarmed Palestinians, including children, every week. The only difference with these latest killings is that it's making prominent news headlines. Tragic as it is, it will yet again show the true nature of the Israeli regime to the world.With every week, month, and year, that passes, the Israelis lose a few more of their very few remaining friends. The Israelis might think that all they ever need is the support of the US government, but one day that won't be enough.
Yeh. The thing is people like you who are obviously one way or another about Israel-Palestine can't see straight about anything any more. You start talking about the bible, the koran, 1948, 1967 and its all irrelevant, because today's incident was sheer lunacy on behalf of the protesters. If you start messing about on one of the worlds most fortified borders, you're likely to get shot. A child could work that out.
The Palestinians could shit on your mothers grave and it wouldn't change your mind about them. Israel could save the planet, cure aids, restore sight to the blind and turn water to wine and you'ed still find fault with it.
It's ok though Ernie. Because there are as many loons and nutjobs on Israel's side who think that their side is always right. So keep up the good work.
Seriously, try finding an American forum and try posting some of those 'IDF are mean' ideas on there. I was going to say anti-Israeli, but i don't want to argue semantics
Seriously? 😆
Seriously?
definitely seriously, they have no humour about it. Wanna try?
If you start messing about on one of the worlds most fortified borders, you're likely to get shot. A child could work that out.
Maybe they've got fyck all left to lose Joe, ever thought about that?
If they do nothing they get bombed, starved and suppressed whilst everybody else sits by and tuts.
The thing is people like you......
I think you'll find that I am rather closer to global public opinion than you on this issue.
The Palestinians could shit on your mothers grave and it wouldn't change your mind about them.
What a totally absurd comment.
If they do nothing they get bombed, starved and suppressed whilst everybody else sits by and tuts.
They live in Syria, not Gaza nor the West Bank and none of them look like they were born before 1948 so as a guess none of them will have ever been to Palestine. So i doubt they've been bombed, starved or suppressed.
Joe, you should hook up with Ilovemygears, you could have a slurred, quasi fascist body rub together.
I love playing matchmaker!
At the end of the day, that land and anything else the israelis want, god said they can have.
How can you argue with that?
They live in Syria, not Gaza nor the West Bank and none of them look like they were born before 1948 so as a guess none of them will have ever been to Palestine. So i doubt they've been bombed, starved or suppressed.
Ah, I see a positive shift in your position, well done.......you now apparently accept that Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank have been "bombed, starved or suppressed" by the Israelis.
There is obviously still some way to go.......but we appear to be going in the right direction.
At the end of the day, that land and anything else the israelis want, god said they can have.How can you argue with that?
While I don't know why I'm being sucked into this.
Its nothing to do with anything. I'm just talking about today. Today's incident. Today. Not 50 years ago, 40 years ago, 1000 years ago, 2000 years ago, moses, pharoahs, yasser arafat, hamas, murdering children, hebron, the initifada. I didn't mention anything about Israel's right to exist, whether the Palestinians are oppressed, whether the Israelis are imperial dogs.
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Nail 'em up
Nail some sense into 'em
Today. Not 50 years ago, 40 years ago, 1000 years ago, 2000 years ago,
I think you'll find that the Israelis justify everything they are doing today, on the basis of what happened 70-80 years ago.
And a promise made a few millenniums ago.
While I don't know why I'm being sucked into this.
Not much you can do now. You started it.
Don't get all the fuss about Israel really.
Israel is a developed country and a representative democracy with a parliamentary system and universal suffrage. Jewish people have lived in the area of modern day Israel for thousands of years and have as good a claim on the land as everyone else basing their claim on historic evidence.
Israel's neighbours routinely stone women to death for adultery. Many of their leaders have expressed their desire to see every single Jewish person in existence dead. Palestinian terrorists routinely target Israeli children in suicide bomb attacks. You can therefore forgive the Israeli people for being a little sensitive and jumpy. You can sympathise with their desire for security when surrounded by enemies.
The news is very good at sensationalising things. Israel clears its dead children off the streets quickly rather than parading them around for three days. Guess which gets more airtime.
It's also worth noting that Israel's Arab neighbours refused to allow their nomadic Palestinian "friends" to settle on their land after WW2, seeing them as poor, and troublesome.
Its so easy to point blame in the middle east, but Israel does actually stand out as a beacon of civilisation, and a human rights high water mark, when set against any other country in the region.
EDIT ^^^^
OOHHHH SHHHHHHIIIIIIITTTTTTT one of those american nut jobs is here to tell us why Israel is ace, despite having non internationally recognised borders after armed conquest, settling occupied land and refusing to even discuss giving it back as part of a peace settlement and the dispossed arab people ...can someone post a picture of Sarah Palin so he can [s]whack off [/s]get distrated by her alluring charm and sophisticated argument
To look at this incident in isolation of the history of the area is pointless- which anniversary was it for example.
What do you think of China BTW - is is
a)ace
b) Communist murdering oppressive police state
c) both a and b
(c) though they should cut down on the murdering bit.
the state was basically formed on nothing better than ethnic cleansing.
oh, the irony...
Jewish people have lived in the area of modern day Israel for thousands of years and have as good a claim on the land as everyone else basing their claim on historic evidence
What historic (sic) evidence?
Israel's neighbours routinely stone women to death for adultery.
It's routine is it?
Many of their leaders have expressed their desire to see every single Jewish person in existence dead
Many? How many?
It's also worth noting that Israel's Arab neighbours refused to allow their nomadic Palestinian "friends" to settle on their land after WW2, seeing them as poor, and troublesome
Much like Israel is starting to get little bit choosy about which Jews it will accept, what with a increase in the African Jews 'coming home'
The news is very good at sensationalising thing
You're not so bad yourself
The news is very good at sensationalising things. Israel clears its dead children off the streets quickly rather than parading them around for three days. Guess which gets more airtime.
Never mind all the rest of what you wrote, just that ^^ bit of clobbers sums up how you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Muslims bury their dead within hours of death, certainly not three days later. And what 'dead Israeli children' ? The Israelis never suffer significant causalities, that indeed is part of the problem.......more Israeli soldiers commit suicide than are killed in the war against the Palestinian people.
Junkyard - I know your post above wasn't directed at me, but your comments apply equally to most of the countries in the middle east. It seems odd that many people single out Israel for failing to meet a defined human rights standard when it's neighbours are worse offenders.
I'd suggest you need to explain your vested interest here.
the state was basically formed on nothing better than ethnic cleansing.[b]"oh, the irony..."[/b]
It is hugely ironic. In the same way that the most enthusiastic supporters of the Apartheid Regime in South Africa were the descendants of the much persecuted Boers is also highly ironic.
Junkyard - I know your post above wasn't directed at me,
Are you using a different internet? His post was clearly directed at you!
CM - perhaps, but he posted a long note only 1 min after I did, and mentioned things such as 'anniversaries' which I'd not referred to at all, but some of the earlier posts had.
Like your other views you may be alone in thinking that ...what with the eidt and the ^^^^ pointing to you I think it is quite clear I mean YOU even that dullard CM noticed my subtle reference to you.
Are you american dmjb4?
Junkyard - I know your post above wasn't referring to me, but your comments apply equally to most of the posters on here.
OK cool, I'm just used to the more insightful and direct arguments that I have with my children. You forget you are at STW level here sometimes!
Now, back on track. The middle east is a divided mess. It's easy to make one-sided arguments like many of those above without putting the trouble in context.
The Israeli people have the right to live in peace. If a declared enemy threw rocks at your Police force, blew themselves up in your markets and fired rockets at your town, you would expect your Government to take action to prevent this from happening. In Israel, they do. End of.
The Israeli people have the right to live in peace. If a declared enemy threw rocks at your Police force, blew themselves up in your markets and fired rockets at your town, you would expect your Government to take action to prevent this from happening. In Israel, they do. End of.
Perhaps then they should cease nicking more land from the Palestinian territories. That sort of thing does tend to make people cross.
OK cool, I'm just used to the more insightful and direct arguments that I have with my children. You forget you are at STW level here sometimes!
Are you in the pram with your kids? Are your toys now spread all around on the floor of said pram?
The Israeli people have the right to live in peace. If a declared enemy threw rocks at your Police force, blew themselves up in your markets and fired rockets at your town, you would expect your Government to take action to prevent this from happening. In Israel, they do. End of
I would not expect my Govt. to shoot at children throwing rocks
OK cool, I'm just used to the more insightful and direct arguments that I have with my children.
Well I dare say you might get away with nonsense such as [i]"Israel's neighbours routinely stone women to death for adultery"[/i] when you're talking to your kids (how old are they?). But grown ups on here realise that it's just a load of irrelevant bollox ........the Palestinians do not routinely stone women to death in Gaza, the West Bank, or anywhere else. .
The country most renowned for that is Saudi Arabia. Which happens to be the most pro-Israeli and anti-Palestinian country in the region. It also happens to be best buddies with the United States.
Of course I suspect that your kids don't know any of that, so I recommend that you continue your polemics with them ....... you'll find it easier on your intellect 💡
Junkyard - I know your post above wasn't referring to me, but your comments apply equally to most of the posters on here.
thank you for the belly laugh 😆
'm just used to the more insightful and direct arguments that I have with my children.
do you often ask them, when they say Dad,if they are talking to you?
You are the master of this yet call others for this.Now, back on track. The middle east is a divided mess. It's easy to make one-sided arguments like many of those above without putting the trouble in context.
The Israeli people have the right to live in peace.
As do their neighbours especially the ones in occupied terrotories...they have no moral high ground to claim here. Settling occupied land is a direct violation of International law. The anniversary is of the six day war when israel launched surprise attacks/invasions on it neighbours and it still holds some of the land it occupied as a result of this military action. I dont think that is the best way of persuading the unfriendly natives that you are benign and no threat to them tbh. Refusing to discuss this as part of a peace treaty and continuing to settle is not helpful either. Having the Israel settlers have swimming pools whilst the Palestians have no sanitation does not help either.
If a declared enemy threw rocks at your Police force, blew themselves up in your markets and fired rockets at your town, you would expect your Government to take action to prevent this from happening. In Israel, they do. End of.
Is this another example of your balanced approach to summing up the problems?
They shoot children/youths throwing rocks at them ... I would not expect my government to act like this. If I invaded a country and settled their land i would expect them to fight back.
It is a complicated issue and neither side can wash it hands of all blame. However to suggest Israel is simply defending itself from evil neighbours is simplistic to the point of being untrue. Certainly the attitude of some of its neighbours needs to change as well but if you think occupying their land and shooting them will lead to this then you are ignoring the last 40 years of history there and history generally.
Both sides need to change but I see no olive branch offered by Israel such as reverting to internationally recognised borders which even the President of the USA recognises as the start point for the peace route.
Nice move by the Syrian regime to deflect attention from their own problems closer to home
So the Syrian government orders the Israelis to shoot unarmed civilians and the Israeli government complies ?
That's crazy Nora - I never knew that.........who told you ?
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So the Syrian government orders the Israelis to shoot unarmed civilians and the Israeli government complies ?
Anyone who's ever spent any time in Syria (obviously not you Ernie, because you have the ring of an armchair critic) will know that you can't just walk upto the border. The town of Quneitra is guarded by the police and can only be visited by arranging it in advance ( or paying some baksheesh), normal Syrian citizens can't visit the border at all. For 400 people to wonder through must have involved some cooperation with the government. The area is also mined, so the government must have told the protestors where to walk.
Settling occupied land is a direct violation of International law
Blah blah international law. International law is a load of old cobblers, which just recognizes the status quo. All the land in the world has been appropriated by force at some point and by multiple parties. Is England's "occupation" of Scotland illegal under international law?
Secondly as we are so keen on international law, was Syria not breaching international law in 1948, 1967 and 1973 when it tried to occupy Israel by invading its sovereign territory (as recognized by the above aforementioned international law) or have you forgotten about that little incident.
The international law arguments are as tiresomely boring as the idiots with the biblical claims.
Syria used the strategic advantage or the golan heights again and again to attack Israel, from constant small arms harassment of farmers on the kineret to a full blown invasion in 1967 (And again in 1973). So Israel smacked Assad's bum and annexed it. Whatever. Fair is fair.
Ernie, to my cynical eye the Syrians got the reaction they were hoping for and the Isreali soldiers duly obliged. Though just watching it on the news the firing of live rounds was a bit OTT it seems.
Blah blah international law. International law is a load of old cobblers, which just recognizes the status quo. All the land in the world has been appropriated by force at some point and by multiple parties. Is England's "occupation" of Scotland illegal under international law?
That's odd as I thought the 1707 act of union ratified by both the Scottish and English parliaments making it legal.
The point being and something you have "left out" that Israel is the still grabbing land from the Palestinian territories.
For 400 people to wonder through must have involved some cooperation with the government.
Yes but you didn't start this thread because 400 people wandered up to the border. You started this thread because the Israelis killed some Palestinians, that after all the the main issue behind this news story.
So if it's all just a clever ploy by the Syrian government to turn the world's attention away from their domestic problems - how the **** did they manage to get the Israelis to shoot unarmed civilians ? Had the Israelis not shot at unarmed civilians their cunning plan would have failed - are the Israelis trying to help the Syrian government ?
And how exactly do you think all this somehow helps the Syrian government ? They are trying to put down a rebellion - they couldn't give a toss what you or I think. If the world's eyes are turned towards Israel is the rebellion in Syria suddenly going to magically "disappear" ?
The Syrian government has far serious things to worry about than to dream up some convoluted plan concerning what headlines dominate tomorrow's front page of the Telegraph. You need to think things through before coming out with any old nonsense to try to justify Israel's acts of barbarism.
Blah blah international law. International law is a load of old cobblers
Spoken in the manner of a true despot.
The point being and something you have "left out" that Israel is the still grabbing land from the Palestinian territories.
This is to do with the golan heights and nothing to do with the Palestinian territories.
Blah blah international law. International law is a load of old cobblers, which just recognizes the status quo.
You a lawyer or a scholar hard to tell which?
All the land in the world has been appropriated by force at some point and by multiple parties. Is England's "occupation" of Scotland illegal under international law?
they dont occupy it and it was a Union 😯
Secondly as we are so keen on international law, was Syria not breaching international law in 1973 when it tried to occupy Israel by invading its sovereign territory (as recognized by the above aforementioned international law) or have you forgotten about that little incident.
The war began when the coalition launched a joint surprise attack on Israel on Yom Kippur, the holiest day in Judaism, which coincided with the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. Egyptian and Syrian forces crossed ceasefire lines to enter the Israeli-held Sinai Peninsula and Golan Heights respectively, which had been captured and occupied since the 1967 Six-Day War.
They invaded the Golan heights which was still their territory and today is still not recognised as israeli territory under said law.
Do you think D - Day was wrong under International law?
Do you have to put effort in to being this wrong or does it come naturally?
ah naturally I see
This is to do with the golan heights and nothing to do with the Palestinian territories.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_West_Bank_barrier
if you keep typing you are bound to say something that is correct
Good luck
Joe I think you have now made it abundantly clear that this comment in your OP :
Joe - MemberSurely they must be the winners for this years darwin awards? They even managed to set off an anti tank mine while they were at their silly folly.
Has absolutely nothing to do with "darwin awards" or "silly folly". You are without any doubt pro-Israeli and anti-Palestinian, so whatever action the Palestinian people took to protest against Israeli actions, you would have opposed it. Your OP was a smoke screen.......I'm glad we've cleared that up 8)
This is to do with the golan heights and nothing to do with the Palestinian territories.
Of course not. Accuse other countries surrounding Israel of "land grabbing" by all means but don't turn a blind eye to the Israelis doing the same.
Joe - Member
...All the land in the world has been appropriated by force at some point and by multiple parties. Is England's "occupation" of Scotland illegal under international law?..
Not only did England not occupy Scotland, but it was a Scottish king who took over the English crown and ruled England.
We did not accept that the Germans had a right to occupy France and a few other European countries, so why should we accept that Israel has a right to occupy Palestinian land?
Save the world nuke each other out. Problem solved. 😆
This isn't a metaphor for gardens, is it?
We did not accept that the Germans had a right to occupy France and a few other European countries, so why should we accept that Israel has a right to occupy Palestinian land?
this absolutely sums it up for me...
I often wish that some of the warmongering nazi types would just try and imagine themselves in this situation before spouting off about how Palestine and other places such as Afganistan deserve everything they get..
I'm a staunch pascifist but if I had an occupying force in my backyard I'm pretty sure that even I would have to consider taking up arms when the shit hit the fan..
Hooray for us and hooray for democracy
LOL @ konabunny
Is England's "occupation" of Scotland illegal under international law
It wasn't occupied. Scotland went broke and there was a merger where England took on their debts.
So, yes, perfectly legal. Lucky Scotland had some oil. It would have been a crap deal otherwise.