[Closed] Is this an acceptable reason for absence from primary school

While I have every sympathy, I think it's fair enough. If they set a precedent that sporting events are a valid reason for absence, you might end up with half empty classrooms every time there's a test match, Ascot, international footy...

A couple of days for that seem reasonable. Take your kid anyway, or will that result in a fine?

a fortnight's skiing might be argued to be something you're doing in the war against obesity. For most people it's a jolly.

geetee1972 - Member

I've asked for a leave of absence

When you should have just pulled a sicky.
Lesson learnt for next time, though I do side with the school.

It's a day I'm talking about. Not a fortnight plus you can go skiing outside of term time whereas the TDF only finishes in London on that particular day (and it's only been to the UK twice before in 100 years!)

Seems a little bit heavy handed - I'm not sure a four year old is missing anything that will come up in his A levels 😀

(My daughter is four - mostly she seems to spend her time gluing sparkly paper to various bits of recycling which she then brings them home as "art")

What's the comeback from the school if you JFDI?

[i]It's a day I'm talking about. Not a fortnight! [/i]

I think the point I was making is that *everyone* thinks that their reason for absence is the exception.

Schools just have to say 'no' to pretty much everything now bar a close relative dying - it's not really the governors or headteachers fault (unless it's a free school/academy) - LA's and central government make the rules.

Within the context of the rules, it's not an acceptable reason. I assume you know this, and are mildly bored. 🙂

In the real world, I twice took mine out of school for a week when I went riding in the Alps, but that was before the fines became prohibitive.

Rules are a bit silly, but they're there to protect kids- unlikely to be yours, but its there for the good of a few.

[quote=geetee1972 ]What with the obesity crisis in our children at the moment I thought the head teacher would understand the importance of promoting sport but she doesn't see it that way.

As mentioned by edlong, exactly the same case could be made for going to watch any footy/rugby etc. match

LA's and central government make the rules.

But they are applied at the heads discretion.

Be wierd if Geetee jr got a dose the night before wouldn't it?

Plus, at 4, is he legally obliged to be there? (thought school age was 5+, happy to be corrected...)

As mentioned by edlong, exactly the same case could be made for going to watch any footy/rugby etc. match

Sure and if the TDF finished several times a week in London, including the weekend, I would just bloody well take him then. Bit it bloody doesn't! That's why I think it's 'exceptional', like the Olympics.

I do wonder what the schools would have done with requests for taking kids to the Olympics had it been on during term time. I bet they wouldn't have refused that in the spirit of the 'Olympic Legacy'.

And no I don't know the rules but yes I am bored today.

it will be on the tv, better coverage than being there, and cheaper, some kid wanted time off to go to his mums wedding and that got refused.

You decide which rules you want to disobey, and the school will decide which rules they will enforce to be petty.

We took our son out of school for a week's holiday when he was 4. Given that he didn't legally have to be at school, there was nothing they could do about it though they did officially refuse our request. They also unofficially said they couldn't see any issue with it given that he was doing well at school. Unless the rules have changed then that will be the case for the OP's son.

I think everyone bar tom is missing the key point here.
He's only 4 years old

I thought the head teacher would understand the importance of [s]promoting sport[/s] me not missing my favourite sport but she doesn't see it that way.

^FTFY

But they are applied at the heads discretion.

Heads are no longer trusted to have discretion for er..discretionary leave...put simply, it was always going to be refused.

To the OP: Go and take him to see it in Yorkshire. Proper hills, and at t'weekend too.

..some kid wanted time off to go to his mums wedding and that got refused.

Except if you read the details of that story it transpired that his parents only gave the school five days notice and didn't actually mention that it was a wedding.

Still. Good headline.

thegeneralist - Member
I think everyone bar tom is missing the key point here.
He's only 4 years old

so won't give a shit about the tdf

Let's throw this grenade into the room and retreat.....

What would your response be if your son's teacher approached you and informed you that he/she wouldn't be available on a given day because he/she was going to attend the stage 3 finish of the Tour de France?

Assuming you didn't want the day off anyway.

Exceptional circumstances?

No (sadly) imagine giving up lessons because the WC footie is on!

But it is ok for the kids to lose a day when the teachers strike.

duh, nobody that watches footy is fat!

*makes note to keep an eye out in 20 years time for a brit TDF winner saying how he first got into cycling aged 4 after his dad took him to the london finish, despite school saying he couldn't go*

OP, What's the lads name, I feel a bet coming on, much like Chris Kirkland's dad did a few years ago (bet his lad would play for England, won £10k.) It's a sign!

Let's throw this grenade into the room and retreat.....

What would your response be if your son's teacher approached you and informed you that he/she wouldn't be available on a given day because he/she was going to [s]attend the stage 3 finish of the Tour de France?[/s]STRIKE, HAVE A TRAINING DAY, SNOW ON THE GROUND, HEATING NOT WORKING, NO HOT WATER,ETC ETC

Assuming you didn't want the day off anyway.

Exceptional circumstances?

Biscuit anyone...?

[img] [/img]

[internet bore] a jaffa cake isn't a biscuit [/internet bore]

Plus, at 4, is he legally obliged to be there?

Rules are a bit silly, but they're there to protect kids- unlikely to be yours, but its there for the good of a few.

Rules are a [s]bit silly[/s] massive knee-jerk overreaction, but they're there to [s]protect kids[/s] penalise those parents who are unlikely to let their children miss school through persistent truancy and believe that as responsible parents are best able to assess the likely impact on their own child of planned absence[s]but its there for the good of a few[/s]rather than targeting and doing something about the real problem parents because that would require real socio-cultural change which is bloody hard.

I may have provided a bit of grist deserving of the biscuits...

[quoteLet's throw this grenade into the room and retreat.....

What would your response be if your son's teacher approached you and informed you that he/she wouldn't be available on a given day because he/she was going to attend the stage 3 finish of the Tour de France?STRIKE, HAVE A TRAINING DAY, SNOW ON THE GROUND, HEATING NOT WORKING, NO HOT WATER,ETC ETC

Assuming you didn't want the day off anyway.

Exceptional circumstances? EXACTLY

tell them hes going to the world cup with an headmaster. they wont have a leg to stand on then. see todays paper if this is unclear.

I had a feeling this post might provoke debate.

Legally at four he is not required to be in school but the DFE website says that if you do have a child enrolled at this age, parents need to abide by the rules. That and who wants to pick a grudge with the people responsible for your kids schooling?

Oh and taking him or not taking him has no impact on whether I get to go or not.

why oh why do stupid people keep trying to equate kids missing a day of school and teachers missing a day of school?

The teacher should be there because they are paid to do a job. It's quite simple.

if you do have a child enrolled at this age, parents need to abide by the rules

just go anyway, and if you get a fine , pay up.

You should be applauded for trying to do the right thing, but for the sake of a day and no hassle sickie is where its at.
BTW I learned the hard way that trying to do the right thing never works in your favour. Weekend job, wanted to go to a gig, asked EVERYONE if they would cover my shift, all said no, lied to boss and said I had an exam on the Saturday of the gig, another colleague grassed me up and I got the sack. Bastards.

Still. Good headline.

I wish people would stop harpoing on about fines, and perhaps not take press headlines for granted 🙄 I mean you don't for anything else, do you?

Most heads will decline an absence request unless its for absolutely clear cut necessity. Otherwise they could get embroiled in all sorts of 'discrimination' issues.

And you won't get fined.

To administer a fine, the school needs to prove regular unauthorised absences, then take this to the local authority to administer. The whole process is very tedious and time consuming, and even with LA backing very difficult to make stick. You really need to be a very, very bad parent to get stuck with this.

Please stop reading the Daily Mail and get over it

Grrrr

I think the stupid people are saying that a day missed through going to the tdf is no different to a day missed due to a strike. If they say a day off is detrimental then a day off is detrimental.

Or am I stupid?

I'd side with the school given the current regulations.

To administer a fine, the school needs to prove regular unauthorised absences, then take this to the local authority to administer. The whole process is very tedious and time consuming, and even with LA backing very difficult to make stick. You really need to be a very, very bad parent to get stuck with this.

That is good to know. If it means it is used correctly that can only be a positive thing.

they cannot do anything for one day

For a penalty notice to be requested, a child must have been absent from school for five days in the same term or period of 12 weeks. If a penalty notice is issued, it will cover the whole period of the absence. So the fine would be the same amount for an absence of five days or 10 days. For example, a parent could be issued with a £60 fine for a child missing one day of school every week over a five week period, whilst another parent might be issued the same fine for a two week block of absence.

I got some additional feedback.

Basically the head is saying that while it's at her discretion to grant a leave of absence for exceptional circumstances, the scope for her to interpret what is 'exceptional' is extremely limited and this doesn't fall into that narrow definition. However, because it's only for one day, there would be no fine.

So now I'm really confused. The answer seems to be 'no you can't but there is no obvious consequence if you do'.

Just take him. Worst that can happen is he'll have a days unauthorised absence on his record. This may go on his school report, and his parents will find out. They might be cross about him truanting, but he'll get over it.

She's saying take him but "I never said that right"

The answer seems to be 'no you can't but there is no obvious consequence if you do'.

Correct they cannot authorise it nor can they punish it so it is your call.

They are not saying no they are saying they cannot say yes and they cannot punish you if you ignore this fact.

[quote=geetee1972 ]Sure and if the TDF finished several times a week in London, including the weekend, I would just bloody well take him then.

Well presumably if you're bothered about the obesity crisis you should take him to a sport which does. Though it's strange how spectators at sporting events still appear to contribute to the obesity crisis.

true that - my brother loves the TdF, almost as much as he loves cake

It'll be recorded as unauthorised absence and everyone will forget about in a weeks time.

Realistically the only reason not to take him is your relation with the school, which presumably you want to be positive for the next 5 years (or whatever primary lasts for in the UK).

Given that, and given your kid is only 4, I'd leave him in school. It seems to me to be a bit silly to risk getting a black mark against your name just to take your boy to a race he won't remember in a couple of years anyway.

We took our youngest out of school for half a term as his primary was dreadful. Home schooling meant he covered a weeks school work in a day.

No one from the local education authority got in touch whatsoever.

No one came to see how he was getting on.

Two days from school? You're not going to miss a thing.

It's not [url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/10922307/Parents-fury-at-headteachers-term-time-holiday-to-watch-World-Cup-in-Brazil.html ]this primary school[/url] is it?

A friend took his two out of school for a trip to Alaska, the Head said that she couldn't authorise it but it sounds like a great trip, hope you enjoy it.

Better to tell them and preserve your relationship with the school then throw a Sickie, because a four year old is going to keep the secret - right?

Ridiculous - it's not like he is about to sit his GCSEs next week.

At 4 years old all they do is mess about in sandpits and pour paint over each other. It would be far more educational and stimulating experience for him to go to the TDF.

As a kid I had weeks off every year to go on holiday even into my teens.

I'm sure the teachers aren't really bothered but I recall they have to report unauthourised absences to the local authority, so it it better to just say they have a doctors appointment etc., then you are not putting the teacher in an awkward position even if they know/suspect you are going to the TDF.

Nanny state gone mad

Drac - Moderator
She's saying take him but "I never said that right"

This. I'd just take the little blighter.

[quote=PJay ]It's not this primary school is it?

I'm confused by that story - parents are complaining about double standards because they're fined if they take their kids out of school, yet he's been fined two weeks wages.

[quote=mudmuncher ]At 4 years old all they do is mess about in sandpits and pour paint over each other.

That is indeed all they do at school. Which makes it very strange that my son who's just turned 5 can now read.

Stupid government rules, blindly applied. They'll have no impact on the ones that need to be in school, as usual just another encumbrance to responsible folk. What will a 4yr old be doing in school in July?

Yeah, obviously make sure it isn't the day that they learn to read.

That day is quite important.

Which makes it very strange that my son who's just turned 5 can now read.

yes but can he tell a straw man yet .....well can he 😉

I'd be inclined to say whistle as it's not a legal requirement for your kid to be actually in school yet is it?

Is it going to be left to me to ask the obvious question here? What on earth do you want to take him to London for?!! when you could take him to Yaaaaaaaaaaaarkshire at the weekend instead? And see some proper riding, up proper hills, and stuff? And sample the untold delights of northern culture? Pies'n'stuff?

London indeed? What's he going to learn there?

*wanders off shaking head and tutting*

Stupid government rules, blindly applied.

Oh and training days are days that dont count towards how many kids should be taught for, no one loses a days teaching.

And.... strike days dont count as those striking dont get paid.

FFS it's your kid. If you want to take him some where for a one off occasion then just do it. Why even bother asking the school, just tell them he will be absent.

At that age he will learn more from watching the TDF with his dad than spending a day in the classroom.

Unauthorised absence - big deal, hardly going to affect future job prospects is it?

I suspect your kid will get ill and not be able to go to school that day.

I think the grown up way to do this is just to either speak to or write a quick letter (best to speak tbh) saying you plan to take junior with you to the TDF which means he'll be out for the day. It's going to be a great experience. Obviously 'the system' means you can't sanction this absence and you are fine with that but thought you would do the right thing and tell the school anyway as your son is a rubbish liar!

Everybody has 'done the right thing', you don't look deceitful and the teacher types who have their hands tied (probably a good thing, you really don't want teachers making judgement calls - I mean, 'those who can't, teach' and all that is what you lot normally bang on about 😉 ) will respect you for it. Job done.

geetee1972 - Member
It's a day I'm talking about. Not a fortnight plus you can go skiing outside of term time whereas the TDF only finishes in London on that particular day (and it's only been to the UK twice before in 100 years!)

POSTED 2 HOURS AGO #

Has it only been twice in a 100 years? Are you sure?
1974, 1994, 2007 and 2014....

Ooops

[quote=Junkyard ]yes but can he tell a straw man yet .....well can he

No, but his spelling's not too bad 😉

Some councils don't actually fine unless the child has been absent for a certain number of days. Leeds council frinstance only fines once a child has been absent for 5 days in a term.

To answer the OPs question

(Rather than discuss how he might circumvent the rules and the consequences of that action)

No.

Your justification for the trip is hilariously crap, but as has been stated already, at 4 at the end of summer term they will be doing nothing at all (in fact pretty much throughout primary school ours seemed to do nothing for the last two weeks) so just take him.
He will not remember it in two or three years time but who cares.

A days unauthorised absence (UA) will go on his record and may come into play if you continue to take him out of school for rubbish reasons. I agree with fines being imposed for UA as it does impact on both the teachers and other children - especially when a week or more has been missed.

Have a good time.... I hope it doesn't rain all day.

it is a resonable excuse - no its not, its quite laughable actually.

Just take him, he's 4 FFS. I took my 4 year old out for the day to goto Thomas land. He didn't melt and I don't think his education suffered lol.

My daughter's going to be poorly on the last day of school.

I am a teacher*. Take him.

My Mum & Dad took all 5 of us on a 3 week trip to Norway to see the Sun at midnight on the Arctic Circle on 21st June. We are now a Teacher, a Graphic Designer, a Petroleum Geologist, a Lawyer and an Accountant respectively. I don't think it did us any harm. The curriculum of your life includes more than a narrow academic spectrum.

*Luckily in Scotland where Gove's rules do not apply.

We are now a
Teacher, a Graphic Designer, a Petroleum
Geologist, a Lawyer and an Accountant

You'd have solved world hunger and brought about world peace if you hadn't missed that school...

Thanks for the constructive feedback (yes even you Sharkbait - bet you haven't got kids have you!)

The plan is to talk to the headtecher to see if the 'no, but it's not our call and if I were you I would just take him' possibility is indeed correct.

Honestly I wouldn't want to cause any ill feeling.

I don't get any of it, pay double for a holiday, maybe £2000 more per family in holiday season or go in school time and pay a £50 fine? No brained isn't it, did these folk not go to school themselves!

Its another way of indirectly trying to control the drongos, kids learn far more from life experiences, he may well remember that trip for life as most folks memories go back to 4 or 5 yr old!

Tell them he will do so homework glueing, colouring etc and make a photo montage of the day to show the other kids, that way he will be one step closer to being a geographer and a more confident public speaker!

Our boy is the same age.

He's not legally required to be in school until he's 5 ( https://www.gov.uk/school-attendance-absence/overview Section 1 Para 2) so there's little they can do about it if you wish to take him.

We're camping at the Dales bike centre and going up after school on the Thursday evening so he'll be missing Friday at school. We wrote to the school as the centre is putting on kids' bike races and and the school is doing the tdf as a topic anyway. The Head authorised the absence as 'educational'.