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Why? Do you have a crystal ball?
I'm not arsed about materialism. Are you? I think people suffer from life because they worry about their financial standing, their status to their colleagues, their house prices instead of chilling abit more.
Hora, not sure what BBC pages you are looking at, but I'm seeing property investment funds shutting down, job vacancies crashing, scientists losing up to 1bn in EU funding, the ftse250 dropping, racist attacks, and yes also the pound anticipated to drop to 1.15 or even parity with the dollar. We haven't even started the process of leaving yet!
They are just thinking of their own pockets again and not anybody that is suffering from the policies of the EU, or whether the EU is actually a good thing.
They certainly lack the altruism and putting others first that defines you as it defines all right wingers and the parties they support:roll:
Whose fault it it now that our economy is going to the dogs?
[s]Stop reading newspapers and the BBC[/s] Be completely ignorant for a start.
All I can see is 'your holiday spending money will suffer' instead of our export trade will boom.
The foremer is true the later is just wishful thinking
We run a trade deficit so by a lot you mean less than we import. Given this even you should be able to work out whether we make money or costs us money.We do alot of exports, this is great for exports, shit for holiday money.
Start thinking positive.
Yes think only in soundbites, ignore the evidence and rally behind the hollow cry of optimistic Hora...the economics expert with a keen eye for the nuances of international politics. He is the beacon we should all turn to. **** the papers and the experts BELIEVE In Hora after all he Believed in Lance and if you cannot trust Hora optimism then whoses can you trust ?
Chewkw seems to have stopped posting triumphalist Brexit drivel, which is a positive.
Junkyard your are a ray of positivity. As are ALOT on STW and FB posting endless gifs and newspaper articles. Why not move on?
he got banned - no idea of the length- on vote night as all he was doing - i assume i use file blicker for him- was posting pictures
I really dont see what the fella brings to the forum tbh beyond a lowering of the IQ and a raising of the word count.
[url= http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/society/brexiters-excuses-increasingly-bollocks-20160707110366 ]When you start to sound like the Daily Mash then it might be worth entertaining the idea that you're on the wrong side of the argument[/url]
Hora, what is there to move on to? We've no PM, no opposition, no plan, no solution.
Aye, I'd tend to agree JY, but I always avoid engaging him as I was never sure whether he was taking the piss or had some serious issues.
I think chewk had some sort of spambot Brexit breakdown and got banhamnered.
While hora's hippy idealism is commendable, it's not so easy in the real world 'short term pain' means recession, job losses and misery.
For me it means real worry over my job as my grant with Welcome was up for review this week (stressful enough anyway), I have no idea how Brexit may effect their funding plans.
Immediately it means that the DNA sequencing project I had a quote for in USD from collaborators in China takes 10% more out of our budget now.
The remain beacon callmeDave is hanging around causing uncertainty by not going sooner. Markets like something more stable. Hopefully the new leader won't be so quick to continue the policy of putting troops in far lands.
I'll stay positive thanks. I just wish Corbyn would bloody go and the Labour party fire itself up.
"Or neglecting the fact that the UK runs a massive trade deficit so imports significantly more than it exports..."
...that's the problem that a weak £ will solve in the long term.
Germany and Japan both had their currencies fixed low post war. Did them a massive amount of good.
When you are heading in the wrong direction maybe carrying on regardless isn't the best plan. There is still a chance to turn this mess aroundWhy not move on?
I can't wait for the day when China tells us what to do. They are so much nicer than those Europeans.
The while thing is a monumental **** up.
When had a second referendum in 75 I want a second referendum now.
Hora is a man to be listened to, it's not 2 days ago since he was lecturing us on the British fishing industry, and I darent argue with him, after all he'd read two online newspaper articles on the subject, so is a bit of a heavyweight.
"While hora's hippy idealism is commendable, it's not so easy in the real world 'short term pain' means recession, job losses and misery.
For me it means real worry over my job as my grant with Welcome was up for review this week (stressful enough anyway), I have no idea how Brexit may effect their funding plans.
Immediately it means that the DNA sequencing project I had a quote for in USD from collaborators in China takes 10% more out of our budget now"
Well yes, but I'm not sure this is really good news as requested by the OP.
I don't want a second referendum, I just want some politicians to stand up and say the obvious truth that the whole idea is a disaster and should be abandoned asap. However Loathsome want to banish me for being pessimistic, apparently if you just stick your fingers in your ears and go lalalalala it's all just peachy.
Nobeerinthefridge I showed two examples of the EU fishing industry lifted off Google from the beeb vaults. I've watched the news on this since the 90's.
My memory doesn't extend as far as the first page of Google or the lead paragraph of the increasingly lazy reporting of the Guardian.
Let's just see what Autumn brings.
Ciao
"I don't want a second referendum, I just want some politicians to stand up and say the obvious truth that the whole idea is a disaster and should be abandoned asap."
This. A second referendum isn't going to help at all.
A calm Civil servant will explain to the new PM why ignoring a referendum (with some kind of democratic fig leaf) will be less damaging than doing whatever "leave the EU" means. ...and that's what will happen.
Loads of EU referendums have gone the wrong way for the establishment throughout the EU and it's always been sorted out the way the establishment thinks is best for us.
This will be the same.
The only way we're leaving is if leaving is practical and relatively painless, in which case, fine by me.
[i]Hora, not sure what BBC pages you are looking at, but I'm seeing property investment funds shutting down, job vacancies crashing, scientists losing up to 1bn in EU funding, the ftse250 dropping, racist attacks, and yes also the pound anticipated to drop to 1.15 or even parity with the dollar. We haven't even started the process of leaving yet![/i]
What you need to do is stop being informed by newspapers and BBC news. We're post-facts now, ignorance is bliss.
It's all about the reckons innit Hora?
outofbreath - Member
"I don't want a second referendum, I just want some politicians to stand up and say the obvious truth that the whole idea is a disaster and should be abandoned asap."
This. A second referendum isn't going to help at all.
A calm Civil servant will explain to the new PM why ignoring a referendum (with some kind of democratic fig leaf) will be less damaging than doing whatever "leave the EU" means. ...and that's what will happen.
Agreed. Now where's Sir Humphrey...
I thought of one, I thought of one.
It makes watching "Yes, Minister" even betterer.
Edit: and I have the complete set on DVD so I can save money at a time of financial uncertainty / instability.
I'll stay positive thanks. I just wish Corbyn would bloody go and the Labour party fire itself up.
Ah, yep, that's the problem, not enough people resigning. How did I not spot that sooner!!
The remain beacon callmeDave is hanging around causing uncertainty by not going sooner.
To be fair he was also heavily criticised for going too soon, not sure how he could have got the timing right on that one
Markets like something more stable.
You mean like staying in the EU?
To be fair, any significant change is going to bring uncertainty which wouldn't reflect well on the markets within 2 weeks of such a change.
IMO some of you are focusing on negative aspects over a short time frame.. recession, pensions, funding, jobs, xenophobia, racism, etc etc but what is important is how things look in 15-25 years (we don't want short term politics anymore)
Of course we could have had more of the same and stability if we voted 'IN' but most are in agreement (I think) that more of the same is not whats needed for the 50 years ahead.
A 50/50 vote with slight bias to leave was exactly what was needed for significant change.
How can someone give positive evidence of an unprecedented change? It's never happened before, nobody knows how the negotiations are going to go, or how the EU will reform, or how are political parties will adapt and nobody knows what our own politicians are going to suggest based on a 50/50 split of the population.
Anybody suggesting they KNOW the negotiations (if we even get to that point) with the EU will be negative are making it up!
I don't want a second referendum, I just want some politicians to stand up and say the obvious truth that the whole idea is a disaster and should be abandoned asap.
This. The new PM needs to grow a pair - which could be interesting.
I showed two examples of the EU fishing industry lifted off Google from the beeb vaults. I've watched the news on this since the 90's.
Wow, so long...?
etc etc but what is important is how things look in 15-25 years (we don't want short term politics anymore)
So just one generation's lives screwed up, that's fine then
We do alot of exports, this is great for exports, shit for holiday money.
Not necessarily.
As a country, we're low on natural resources, so import a lot of raw materials, whose prices will rise. The lower £ only reduces the cost of the UK sourced part of the cost, which will be labour. So a 10% reduction in the £ won't mean our exports are 10% less, they'll be somewhere between 0% and 10% less.
A lot of our export is financial services, all of which are at risk right now with the question over Passporting. The longer the uncertainty continues, the more these services are likely to migrate to Paris / Frankfurt.
So the current crisis is far from 'good for exports'.
The remain beacon callmeDave is hanging around causing uncertainty by not going sooner.
Yes everything else has been so clearly set out that all the uncertainty is definitely Dave's fault. I assume the BBC is sadly lacking in such powerful insights?
Markets like something more stable. Hopefully the new leader won't be so quick to continue the policy of putting troops in far lands.
A tangent too far for me to follow.
I'll stay positive thanks.
We noticed we just hoped you had a factual basis for the optimism but it seems to be mainly lack of insight and well that its actually.
In a two party state the opposition and a powerful one is required to hold the government to account. Its in no one best interest, whomever is in power, to see an ineffective opposition hell bent on self destruction. it might be amusing depending on your leaning but its not healthy for our democracy.I just wish Corbyn would bloody go and the Labour party fire itself up.
I'm all for balancing the economy and exporting more. However, I see the solution not as exporting our London jobs and services to reduce their influence but as stimulating more jobs in the north.
I'm not sure how we're going to achieve this with smaller tax revenue (banking is looking most likely to lose out* and that's 11% of government tax revenue). And as others have noted, if we manufacture things using imported ingredients our costs go up. Already one of our local (and very excellent) brewers has been affected by the exchange rates - a 10% shift isn't great if you're not operating high margins.
*unless we negotiate something very like EU membership in all but name
We'll probably get more US tourists as the £ is the 2016 worst performer so far!
I'm not sure how we're going to achieve this
We're not. Which is pretty much why evert 'expert' / Economist said leaving the EU was a very bad idea. We're just going to all be poorer from now on, and I suspect the poorer regions will suffer most with big increases in poverty.
And deaths from poverty related illness rising.
I'm a cheery sod today aren't I?
Who is on our crack team of negotiators? Are they people who know about this stuff? If they are experts they probably want to stay in . Therefore we will probably end up with **** wits who know nothing except how to piss of foreigners.
This really is the biggest **** up in our country's history.
If you voted out and would like to apologise,feel free.
etc etc but what is important is how things look in 15-25 years (we don't want short term politics anymore)
So simply at best hope for stagnation etc. for 15 years then see some improvements. This is very different to the view put forward by Vote Leave isn't it.
theocb, what's actually going to be [i]good[/i] in 20 years, to make up for the 20 years of shit that you're anticipating? Sure, the country will survive in some form or another. I'm anticipating a smaller, poorer, more isolated, disunited kingdom. Assuming we go through with it, that is.
15-25 years.
Not sure Scotland will give the UK that much of a chance (they might), but more importantly, in a smaller more globalised world than during previous periods of stagnation, the young and the educated and the skilled will pursue other options on where to live where their opportunities are greater. And there will be some.
Which throws up all sorts of interesting demographic and economic changes.
"the young and the educated and the skilled will pursue other options on where to live where their opportunities are greater."
Thus reducing net migration and easing the housing crisis.
"Not sure Scotland will give the UK that much of a chance"
If Scotland can leave the UK and the EU without adverse effect, why can't the UK leave the EU?
Outofbreath - think about a society where the young and the skilled are leaving in anything like significant numbers. What sort of society are you left with?
The housing crisis would be the least of your worries.
As for Scotland, they would (rightly or wrongly) blame Westminster and the leave vote in Wales and England, and ask themselves if they wanted to be saddled with the people's who brought that economic situation upon them.