[Closed] Is it time for Punk again?

a few years of rick wakeman 6hr keyboard solos is needed first to kick it off.

We lack the ideology now. The soundtrack to our times is the X-factor sh*t.

Less focused anger and way more resignation nowadays, I'd say.

Time for Leonard Cohen, maybe. 😐

I hope not, I can't stand it.

Plus re-hashing a 35 year old music scene as a form of protest/statement wouldn't really fit the 'punk' ethos surely- that really would be apathetic.

Punk at its core was a bunch of middle class tossbags trying to pretend they were working class rebells.

Or do we lack the ideology now.

Yes, sadly.

Younger people were very politicised in the 70's and 80's, to an extent that would be unthinkable these days.

The same energy is there, but seems to be directed toward individual gain rather than a desire for social change.

Of course, we've been drip fed the 'greed is good' mantra for so long now that it would be surprising if this were not the case.

Altruism and a desire to help one's fellow man is now regarded with suspicion and derision, rather than something to aspire to an be proud of.

And yes, I blame HER. Partly, anyway. (Anyway, dancing trousers at the ready, can't be long now.)

As to the music, Punk wasn't very original anyway, just stripped down, speeded up Rock 'n' Roll.
Brilliant, but not original.

Some twist on an old idea will come along and refresh us all when the time is right, but do young people care about music enough for it to matter?

Perhaps the time as music as a symbol of social change ended with the death of the generation gap?

I get what you mean - nothing else quite captures the anger, venom and energy as punk and it's later offspring.

However, plenty of other music from the 70s and early 80s has very strong political messages.

That political "bite" appears to have largely disappeared.

[not sure that I should admit this]
Was listening to "Streetfighting Years" on the ipod last week (the album title pretty much sums it up)...

... and was reminded how [u]so much has changed[/u] and how [u][b]so much remains the same[/b][/u]

"Mandela Day" -

It was 25 years they take that man awayBut freedom moves him closer every day.Wipe the tears down from your saddened eyeThey say Mandela's freeso step outside.Mandela day - Mandela's free.It was 25 years ago this very day

Originally played at Wembley a couple of years [i]before[/i] Mandela's release
He's been out of jail for 21 years now!!!

Yet the Tories (at the time) accused the band as being "left wing scum" for playing an anti-apartheid gig 👿

it's because no-one really gives a _____ any more. as long as they have the latest Iphone, can tweet folks about x factor and watch endless drivel on the idiot box, what do they need to care about the real world?

Punk never went away in some circles...

Twitter is the new punk.

Or so some people will probably try to claim.

i care tazzy.... i care.

just cos music doesnt have guitarz being smashed about doesnt mean it can't be political 🙂 i do likes me guitarz though!

Punk hasn't died,
It's got grey hair and sore knees, but underneath it's still 21 8)

rkk01, Simple Minds were, at the very best, post-punk in their Life In A Day period, then mutated into stadium AOR (New Gold Dream onwards).

Maybe they were punk when they were Johnny & The Self Abusers, but that band really only existed for one single, as far as I'm aware.

Doesn't matter that you were born in 1973. I was born in 1971. The punk era was 1986. For me that is, for you it was 1988. The golden age of punk is whatever year you were revising for your o levels listening to a second hand copy of Never Mind the Bollocks bought from a record stall in the indoor market.

Plus re-hashing a 35 year old music scene as a form of protest/statement wouldn't really fit the 'punk' ethos surely- that really would be apathetic.

I disagree. It would be DIY, anti-establishment, anti-current music and - well - punk.

I always thought Never Mind the Bollocks was crap. It inspired some terrific bands, but was ultimately crap.

The golden age of punk is whatever year you were [s]revising for[/s] wizzing off your tits and flunking your o levels

put a safety pin through that for you 😉

I always thought Never Mind the Bollocks was crap.

Burn him!!!!!!!
Great album, even the lighter stuff.....

rkk01, Simple Minds were, at the very best, post-punk in their Life In A Day period, then mutated into stadium AOR (New Gold Dream onwards).

Maybe they were punk when they were Johnny & The Self Abusers, but that band really only existed for one single, as far as I'm aware.

errr, I wasn't suggesting that Simple Minds were a punk outfit - just highlighting that a whole stack of music and musicians in the 70s and 80s were political, in a way that no longer appears to be the case...

I always thought Never Mind the Bollocks was crap. It inspired some terrific bands, but was ultimately crap.

PMJ, I just can't accept that!

Holidays in the Sun
Bodies
No Feelings
God Save the Queen
Anarchy in the UK
Submission
Pretty Vacant
EMI

I've dropped a couple of the weaker ones, but of the remainder, which would you leave out?

We lack the ideology now. The soundtrack to our times is the X-factor sh*t.

I don't know about that..

the way I see it is that the underground is well enough developed and evolved to know that with a bit of nowse you can do [i]exactly[/i] as you please and that what the government and the old folks get up to is entirely their own busines..

fashion victims will always be fashion victims whether they are following sid vicious or simon cowell..

I'd be really disappointed if "punk" came again as a rehashing of old guitar music with shouty vocals. Great (fantastic! life changing!) at the time, but I really don't see how a musical revolution could consist of some "heard it all before" guitar music.
The musical landscape (huh? did I just say musical landscape??!) has moved on so much from the 70s it would be virtually impossible for a new type of music to come along and f*ck up the establishment like punk did.
I mean you hear the C*** word on TV these days!

"Punk was the sound of my voice". - Johnny Lydon (nee Rotten).

Unfortunately they tried a few years back and we ended up with these gonks:

[img] http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSMFa_gzYXLa2yXv9jtK6RRV___mc_ZG-QxDqWNMzDm7q65b7bD_w [/img]
[img] http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS7IMQ0Yf5ly2XiCYlSto6wfF1acaf5h5BT__jI204E_bLq1RLhrE66HUfy [/img]
[img] [/img]

Rollins explains it:

Dogbert has a point. Bleurgh. That Limp Bizkit singer (can't be arsed to remember his name) what a prize twonk.

Dogbert has a point. Bleurgh. That Limp Bizkit singer (can't be arsed to remember his name) what a prize twonk

Thank you 🙂

I loved Punk, and it's off shots (hardcore, straight edge etc) but there is nothing up to date with the same ethics, they all end up on MTV then turn up at a fashion show and get married to Avril Lavigne - f*ck that

Fugazi are probably the most up to date and most releases from the Dischord label are worth a look. Joe Lally (Fugazi bass player) his stuff is quite mellow

Try Frank Turner - Thatcher F***** the kids - great song writer.

Avril Lavigne - f*ck that

If it came with a time machine and it all sounded brand new again. I'd have it.

Remember the first time you saw these lot?

DKs - listened to California Uber Alles & Kill The Poor a couple of weeks back....their early stuff still stands up.

Bad Religion never really gave up - The Empire Strikes First was every bit as bile-filled as their previous work, and again, it's something I still listen to.

Newer punk bands seem to be largely US, and I'm a big fan of AFI and Rise Against (though not the whole straight edge thing).

Punk never went away.

Wasn't aware that's really ever gone away!

Grunge was the new punk.

Dubstep is probably the new Grunge.

A musical revolution to unite the kids against the man? I doubt it will ever happen again, not when kids rely on mummy and daddy until they're 30. You also need a demographic spike to help sustain a movement.

Burn him!!!!!!!

😆

Fugazi. Pure brilliance.

lets think about it..

why re-instate a tired 40 year old genre, when, if kids want to feel part of a rebellion, they can pay £2 to gain entry to any dingy rave hole in the country.. to listen to earth shattering new sounds with an explicitly anti-establishment, sexy, druggy theme..?

In the 70s were people really asking themselves if a good old Swingtime revival would wake the rebellious kids up..?

With a whole generation growing up with punk and hippy parents, and now a whole load of second generation ravers, the youf dem probably feel that it's most rebellious to get a nice litte job working for the man..
Young soul rebels these days realise that they can happily get off their faces and sit around in bedsits having sex between raves without having to get up everyone's nose about it.. (apart from an occasional bout of looting perhaps..)

Somehow the aftermath of the government's blind panic regarding the early 90s rave scene has resulted in a workable compromise..
shame really..

What about some working class Oi.

...if kids want to feel part of a rebellion, they can pay £2 to gain entry to any dingy rave hole in the country.. to listen to earth shattering new sounds with an explicitly anti-establishment, sexy, druggy theme..?

So what you're saying is that grime and dubstep are the new punk? 😉

punk sounds about as edgy as a britney song to todays kids. you need to get into this kinda territory to start making kids feel like they're listening to something their parents wouldn't:

WARNING: there is a naughty word at the start of the track.

Music is too diverse now to have a genre that could polarise opinion.

If you want political comment and calls to arms have a listen to some traditional folk music (listen to the lyrics). They weren't smashing TV studios (obviously), but social and sexual politics play a big part in music tha was "written" hundreds of years ago.

Isn't the music the kids listen to these days political, bragging bout your bling and honey's and wanted to pop some caps in a sucka?

Who cares?

I really don't think I do anymore.

.if kids want to feel part of a rebellion, they can pay £2 to gain entry to any dingy rave hole in the country.. to listen to earth shattering new sounds with an explicitly anti-establishment, sexy, druggy theme..?
So what you're saying is that grime and dubstep are the new punk?

I'd go with that. Its not a musical style, its an attitude of mind. The Clash were the greatest 'successful' punk band imho. They constantly explored and redefined themselves.

thats only a couple of levels harsher than slayer in reality though and I have been listening to them since I was a kid... and have been to a few grindcore gigs in my time so my kids are screwed.

FUGAZI are awesome!!!!!!
Operation Ivy were amazing until they became rancid.
ALL
Descendants
could go on all day...

modern takes that I have enjoyed are F*cked up and pissed jeans both awesome.

[i]bragging bout your bling and honey's and wanted to pop some caps in a sucka?[/i]

🙄 lazy

thats only a couple of levels harsher than slayer in reality though and I have been listening to them since I was a kid... and have been to a few grindcore gigs in my time so my kids are screwed.

ahhh you'll have kids that listen to nothing but lady gaga unplugged as a way of rebelling 😆

what old people (apart from dezzy-B and tazzy) dont seem to grasp is the huge amount of genres and sub-genres, then how extreme each of those sub-genres can be taken... combine that with how accessible music is nowadays and you end up with a generation that loves music, and more often than not, loves a massive variety of music.

if you want to rebel, its through flesh tunnels the size of an essex girls hoop earrings and justin beiber tattoos on your neck.

Plus 1 for the folk angle, never was cool, never will be, but was always rebellious! 🙂
Unfortunately we've bred a generation so closed minded that they'll never even consider listening to it. 🙁
But then again, only a tiny fraction of the seventies youth actually listened to punk so maybe there's a hope after all?

MSP - Member
Punk at its core was a bunch of middle class tossbags trying to pretend they were working class rebels

Totally agree,'punk' was the start of bands being 'imagined up' just to sell T shirts 🙄

Anyway, the MCTs have STW (and similar) now so don't even need to leave their warrior chairs to start the revolution 😆

[i]what old people (apart from dezzy-B)[/i]

Thanks.. Er, hang on!

😆 you cant hide from your grey sideburns!

you do have excellent music taste and you're older than the demographic that's being discussed in the thread, unlike young emsz and my fine self.

tis all i meant guv, honest!

if you want to rebel, its through flesh tunnels the size of an essex girls hoop earrings and justin beiber tattoos on your neck.

ha ha... anything but that mong lady gaga... somebody should 'John Lennon' her. 😉

[i]Unfortunately we've bred a generation so closed minded that they'll never even consider listening to it. [/i]

so should I stop listening to Laura marling, Bon Iver, Bombay Bicycle Club, Avet Bros, Sufjan Stevens, Broken Records, Washington, The Decemberists and on and on

I don't think it's my generation with the closed minds TBH 🙄

*laughs at young phillip, ruffles his hair for his young impish ways and promises to kick him soundly in the nut clusters for mocking the oldies*

actually.... isnt x-factor pop essentially the new punk... most 'adults' hate it 'cos its not proper music' and is probably damaging the younger generations minds with its messages and image?

just a thought!

EDIT - tazzy, you didnt notice my ninja editing skillz that pay the billz?

I like Lady gaga at least she's a bit more interesting....let's face it if it had been kate bush doing such stuff many here would reminisce about how marvellous it was 😆

anything but that mong lady gaga... somebody should 'John Lennon' her

Give her a break, dude. In a couple of decades she'll be advertising butter-like products just like Johnny Lydon. 😡

...or speedy car insurance like Iggy 'Sag Boy' Pop. 👿

with its messages

X factor had no message, it's as pointless as an orange 5 in london

true, some of the bland cheryl cole style pop has no message, but there's a lot of UK music (hip hop, accoustic singer/songwriter... tech/djent/metal etc) that is busting with political messages.

phillip, you are the stealthy edit ninja master have a gold star and a scratch and sniff sticker

Folk punk, you say?

[i]...or speedy car insurance like Iggy 'Sag Boy' Pop[/i]

I forgive Iggy. I mean the guy is well into his 60s, he's not likely to come out with anything new, so let him cash in on his cartoon persona.
He is Iggy.

...as pointless as an Orange 5 in London.

😆

[s]Punk[/s] Mountain biking at its core [s]was[/s] is a bunch of middle class tossbags trying to pretend they [s]were[/s] are [s]working class[/s] rebels

FTFY. 😉

...or speedy car insurance like Iggy 'Sag Boy' Pop

I forgive Iggy. I mean the guy is well into his 60s, he's not likely to come out with anything new, so let him cash in on his cartoon persona.

I forgive him, too.

I also forgive Mr. T for hawking nut-laden confectionary.

Johnny Lydon... **** ?

Unfortunately we've bred a generation so closed minded that they'll never even consider listening to it.

oh dear

Isn't the music the kids listen to these days political, bragging bout your bling and honey's and wanted to pop some caps in a sucka?

oh dear

I was too young to listen to 70's punk, but grew up listening to hardcore/metal/hiphop from the late 80's onwards. Most of it had a political edge. It was pretty much out of step (Minor Threat reference 😉 ) from the mainstream music of the time.
We hated 70's punk coz it was full of old farts who wanted to drink cider and were more interested in having the right clothes.

I don't think it's any different now, young people always feel pretty pissed off with the world. As they should. I think things are more "punk" now - you don't need a record label (independent or not) or even any physical distribution to get your music/message out.

And maybe kids don't see music as the only way of protesting. Look at hacking collectives, that's sticking it to the man in a much more effective way than making someone tut at your bondage trousers.

Emsz, Where did I suggest that you should do anything, let alone stop listening to non mainstream music? If anything my post would've put you into the niche of hope! 😉
I dunno, the youth today with their closed minded reflex reactionary ways, eh? (BIGGEST POSSIBLE 😉 )
I know quite a few teens and young uns as well as old farts with fabulously eclectic and interesting tastes in music, that still doesn't mean that they are the mainstream anymore than the Teds, hippies, rockers, mods, punks, ravers or crusties were. There might've been 10's of thousands of ravers in fields in the early 90's but they were always massively outnumbered buy the folks in 'Shaggers' down the high street. Always has been, always will be.
Cowell didn't make his fortune pandering to the niches. There's a reason why Bieber has more money than Bombay Bicycle club, and it's not musical talent level!
Enjoy your niche status but don't kid yourself that you're in the musical mainstream of your generation anymore that I am in mine.

Transmute erm... 😳

I know what you mean, loads of my friends have absolutely no interest in music outside the top 10 or Heart FM. I've a mum and dad who made the annual trip to Glastonbury the summer holiday, and an uncle who took me to gigs in sweaty pubs and venues from 12 onwards to thank for my 'education'

If only they knew what they were missing!!

At last, this thread's starting to feel a bit punk! 😡

* Senses the spirit of punk past returning *

[img] [/img]

I'm goin' ta kick that cat's ****in' head in, coz I don't care.

Punk rulz

Slightly more pissed off and political:

I used to commute through Clapton - lovely place. Just wouldn't want to stop there.

Hurrah for the fellow elder wierdo's who show the young the option to try out different stuff eh EMSZ! 😀
(my sister in law is also a Heart FM drone so I feel your pain! 😉 )

If only they knew what they were missing!!

so should I stop listening to Laura marling, Bon Iver, Bombay Bicycle Club, Avet Bros, Sufjan Stevens, Broken Records, Washington, The Decemberists and on and on
I don't think it's my generation with the closed minds TBH

Unfortunately we've bred a generation so closed minded that they'll never even consider listening to it.

Since being with the other half I've taken her to see (among others) DJ Krush vs. DJ Kentaro, Maceo Parker and Therapy?

I like to think that we're being at least a little eclectic. 🙂

I think the point is it is no longer listened to en-mass.

There used to be a reasonable amount of music with a political message, and/or a social conscience, which broke through into mainstream charts. It helped develop the listeners sense of the world, there were opinions expressed outside of the message of mainstream media, yet it was delivered through that same media.

The fact that a few niche whore on here listen to (or claim to)some different stuff doesn't mean its been heard by many others.

Some of the old punky types on my facebook list are rumbling.. must be something in the air..
this is a direct quote from a status update this very evening:

When the people of the country have forgotten how to disagree
And the national economy is said to be OK
And the wages that you get will help you to forget
Will you keep your ideologies or throw them all away?

... When the system has you beaten
Even now you haven't eaten
Cos you can't afford to eat or drink to keep your brain alive
You blame the system for the weather but carry on as ever
You go to work at half past eight and come back home at five

You can go blue in the face talking about the human race
How they got to outer space but it never stopped the wars
And how the whole of this humanity is based on greed and vanity
The ones who make decisions are the ones who make the laws

But you're still in this society
So what's your main priority
Remain in the majority who never really cared?
Or cultivate the hate to annihilate the state
Are you prepared to die for your beliefs or just to dye your hair?

The anarchist, the nihilist but can you prove that you exist
To apopulation who insist you're just a bunch of fakes
You cannot change the system until you change your own restrictions
Communication and conviction - got to kick until it breaks

I've been playing in hardcore punk bands since 1988. I'm still playing. Punk is really big all over the world, it's just underground which is the way I like it. I should really know better but I enjoy it. I get to travel all over the place with the support of the D.I.Y punk scene. It's not perfect but it's real. We are not changing the world but we're still trying.

To get punk, first you need five years of 'Disco' torture and a Music business that's gone super corporate.

Punk never went away... Just a lot of punks lost interest but convinced themselves it was the music that changed, not them. [i]IMO ;)[/i]

transmute - Member

snip <folk>Unfortunately we've bred a generation so closed minded that they'll never even consider listening to it.

You think so? Folk looks pretty healthy from where I'm standing... At the mighty age of 32 I've been one of the oldest people at all the recent folk gigs I've been at, including the bands.