Asking someone at my work if they want anything from the chinky or chinkies at lunchtime has and will result in being dismissed for gross misconduct. Rightly so. Maybe the word wasn't originally offensive but after years of it being routinely followed in use by something like bastards or following an adjective like dirty etc wears thin and therefore the two uses cannot be separated. Same as ****. Same as jock and paddy can be considered offensive by some (although not nearly to the same degree).
Sassenach is an interesting one and one were IMO context is all. I have certainly heard it used as a derogatory insult based on ethnic origion ie "Eff of back to England you sassenach"
Maybe it all just depends on the restaurant? 😆
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Asking someone at my work if they want anything from the chinky or chinkies at lunchtime has and will result in being dismissed
Takeaways open at lunch time? Where is this fabled land in which you dwell?
Anyway, all terribly offensive. We should probably stick to talking about bikes. Anyone used these guys?
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Takeaways open at lunch time? Where is this fabled land in which you dwell?
West central Scotland of course!
You have takewaways closed on a lunch time?
Anyway the etymology of Welsh means Foreigner/outsider. whilst Cymru means us/fellows.
Pretty racist ideas if you think about it?
[quote=mrmo ]Anyway the etymology of Welsh means Foreigner/outsider. whilst Cymru means us/fellows.
Pretty racist ideas if you think about it?
Cymru/Comrade?
Cymru/Comrade?
Possible i don't know the etymology behind comrade but i do know that cymru is an old welsh word that was used to identify themselves.
I haven't read beyond the first page but my view is that what constitutes racist language is all down to intent.
When someone says "I fancy a chinky tonight" they are almost certainly not doing it to insult Chinese people but are simply announcing that they fancy partaking in the culinary delights of oriental cuisine, it is not racist imo.
If however they are referring to a person as a "chinky" then there is a high probability that they intend to insult, in which case it is racist imo.
Likewise with **** shop. For me **** shop means the local convenience shop which is owned by the delightful and extremely polite Mr and Mrs Patel (who are almost certainly not ****stani), which has a wider range of products than a Waitrose supermarket, and which remains open until ridiculously late.
If however someone is referred to as a **** the intention is almost certainly to insult them and it is indisputably racist.
It ain't rocket science imo, it's all down to intent seen through perspective of common-sense, concepts which both bigoted/racist right-wingers and middle-class politically correct lefties spectacularly fail to understand.
Exactly. The worst a Scotsman can do is say it with a sneer. The odd thing being that the English who live closest to Scotland are of Norse origin, not Saxon!
I have certainly heard it used as a derogatory insult based on ethnic origion ie "Eff of back to England you sassenach"
And we're back to intent again. I could call you an effing coatrack with sufficient conviction that it'd be pretty clear that I meant it as an insult.
I don't understand why one form of offensive language is allowed, yet other forms are not
Yes you do, you're just looking to have an argument about it.
Aside from anything else, just look at the eloquent turns of phrase the relatively gentle flowers over on Mumsnet come out with. If swearing wasn't verboten this place would look like the AGM of Tourette's Anonymous.
mumsnet already did it, 19 pages
Give us time, it's early days yet.
When someone says "I fancy a chinky tonight" they are almost certainly not doing it to insult Chinese people but are simply announcing that they fancy partaking in the culinary delights of oriental cuisine, it is not racist imo.
Whilst I agree it's not Racist, I also don't think it's generally acceptable these days, so I don't use it personally.
I wouldn't presume someone to be racist if they did though, it would take more than just that.
I also don't think it's generally acceptable these days
I depends who you socialise with.
It's generally acceptable with people who don't over-analyse the English language and aren't over-occupied with appearing to be political correct and not racist.
It's not acceptable to people who are preoccupied with appearing to be politically correct and not racist.
I'm always suspicious btw of people who are preoccupied with not appearing racist. I know that I'm not racist so I feel no compulsion to prove that I'm not.
Having said that I do adjust my language depending on the company. Especially my liberal use of the c-word 🙂
The swear filter must be a nightmare for you then, Ernie. (-:
I also don't think it's generally acceptable these days
I depends who you socialise with.
Which is exactly why I used the word "generally"
You know, so I was speaking "generally" about the majority who don't use the term.
rather than "specifically" about a minority, who do.
Not at all Cougar, I am aware that when I'm on here I'm in polite company 🙂
Having said that all my early bans were for swearing.......it took a while before I realised what sort of company I was in.
Drac - Moderator
This again?Ok I changed my stance from the previous 17 page thread. I still don't think it's offence as such but I stopped using it as Scotroutes have said, times change.
Sassench? Never head of it.
Yeah, me too. But I have heard of but never used sassenach.
And, don't we do this very thread once every quarter ? Just seems to reinvigorate an argument and handwringing.
Maybe it should be a sticky.
Porridge Eater.
It is a racist term.
People have the opportunity to wipe it out all together, just call it the chinese instead, then over generations it will die out.
Or just continue to use it and make this racist term last and last.
I have a customer in Doncaster. his company name is Polskisat.
Polski means Polish in the language, but it's an adjective so refers to objects. Polak would refer to a person - but its gendered and I'm not going that detailed 🙂 And correct me if I'm wrong but PolskiSat is a service provider in Poland?
Personally (and call me oversensitive) I got called a Pom, in Poland, by someone I'd never met before in public, before I'd even spoken to them. Made me think they were a bit rude really.
You have takewaways closed on a lunch time?
Yep, seems to be a 17:00 unwritten rule before the traditional takeaways (Chinese, Curry House, Pizza, Kebab etc) begin selling their wares. Sandwiches shops are open though. We have a local one called brown or white, so racist!
I tell you what I think is weird about racism in the UK. I can honestly say that I never hear people being racist about the usual suspects, apart from the occasional confused pensioner referring to black people as 'boons' or something. But fair enough, I'm an average liberal white guy so probably don't see much outside my bubble.
But talk about Irish Travellers and my god... It's all there; PROPER racism. Some of the stuff you read on forums/Comment sections regarding this lot wouldn't sound out of place in Nazi Germany or slave-era USA. But it kind of goes unnoticed. What's that all about?
And another thing. Years ago I worked in a busy restaurant kitchen with every nationality under the sun. Everyone was incredibly racist, shouting insults back and forth, but then all sit and drink together at the end of a shift. Whether we're all inherently racist or it was just a convenient method of offending one's colleague I don't know .
I'll probably get lynched for this, but have you had many dealings with the traveller community? They don't exactly have great public relations. You think we are bad with the travellers, try being born ginger and male in the UK wink:
Interesting. Would never consider using Chinky or **** due to the negative racist connotations in England.
I do however use Jap when referring to my Japanese made Honda motorbike. They are Jap bikes, which is in my mind at least, positive in terms of engineering and quality.
My American wife reacted much as I would if someone casually used the term ****. Apparently Jap has the same negative racist connotations for the Yanks.
So I get where you're coming from, but I think if Nigel Farage considers it ok to "go for a chinky", then it's probably a bit racist and you shouldn't use it.
You've met my neighbour fourbanger haven't you.... she is rather hot
My American wife reacted much as I would if someone casually used the term ****. Apparently Jap has the same negative racist connotations for the Yanks.
You don't say.
Polak would refer to a person
See, I always thought that was pejorative. For years, the only place I'd ever come across it was on American TV / movies. "Did you hear the one about the Polak who..." in pretty much the same context as "Irishman" in hilarious jokes from the 70s over here (there's a character in Flashdance that does bad standup all around these). It was years before I even discovered what a Polak was.
Is it not, then?
I know, I'll ask an actual Polish person (on the grounds that a sample size of "one" is totally representative of an entire nation). Hold the line please, caller.
If 8) you knowingly use a word in a non-racist context that others use to cause offence them you are (even in a little way, even not intending to) helping to perpetuate the use of something racist.
Point being, you can choose to easily use another word that is not going to risk annoying someone and it's not hard to do
Ok analogy time "why are you carrying a gun?" "I'm going hunting" "but you're walking down the high street with a gun n your hand, that's what lunatics do" "but I'm not a lunatic" "then prove that you aren't by having it in a case until you are standing in a field"
same with language, prove that you aren't racist (which we know you aren't) by not even going anywhere near using a word that racists use, don't put yourself in a position where the is even the hint of doubt 8)
J'know what - I thought the 17 pages thing was a bit of a gamble but I'm thinking they're gonna get the win.
Macka B will tell you what you need to know.
8)
I know, I'll ask an actual Polish person (on the grounds that a sample size of "one" is totally representative of an entire nation). Hold the line please, caller.
My Polish friend says it's absolutely fine as far as she's concerned, it simply means "a Polish person" with no negative connotations. Every day's a school day.
teasel - MemberJ'know what - I thought the 17 pages thing was a bit of a gamble but I'm thinking they're gonna get the win.
I've got about 2-3 pages of debate as to whether or not Macka B does tell you what you need to know, if it helps.
Whilst we're on the subject, does anyone know a really offensive term that could be applied to Hungarians.
I don't normally indulge in such fripperies but I was at a loss for suitable words when 50 Hungarian renderers decided to blockade our office this morning.
Calling them Budapests just wasn't cutting the mustard.
Or just continue to use it and make this racist term last and last.
A counter-argument could be that by continuing to use an inherently non-racist term with affection, rather than hate, we might reclaim it.
After all it seems a bit one-sided if any colloquial adjective can be placed forever out-of-bounds simply by some bigots using it.
I didn't even know they had reindeer in Hungary
I haven't read beyond the first page but my view is that what constitutes racist language is all down to intent.When someone says "I fancy a chinky tonight" they are almost certainly not doing it to insult Chinese people but are simply announcing that they fancy partaking in the culinary delights of oriental cuisine, it is not racist imo.
If however they are referring to a person as a "chinky" then there is a high probability that they intend to insult, in which case it is racist imo.
Likewise with **** shop. For me **** shop means the local convenience shop which is owned by the delightful and extremely polite Mr and Mrs Patel (who are almost certainly not ****stani), which has a wider range of products than a Waitrose supermarket, and which remains open until ridiculously late.
If however someone is referred to as a **** the intention is almost certainly to insult them and it is indisputably racist.
It ain't rocket science imo, it's all down to intent seen through perspective of common-sense, concepts which both bigoted/racist right-wingers and middle-class politically correct lefties spectacularly fail to understand.
Why is it that people who quote "common sense" almost always fail the logic test.
Do you refer to German owned shops as "Das Hun Shop", do you refer to Irish shops as "Paddy Shops", or Ginger owned shops as "Ginger Shops", do ****stanis/Black people refer to white owned shops as "Cracker Shops"?
No they don't do they! The reason why white people shorten and use ethnic identifiers in these types of shorthand, is that it purposely identifies those who are non-white as outsiders. Whether you do it intentionally or not, someone at some point did and it caught on - and perhaps - just perhaps, some ethnic minorities feel uncomfortable about being labelled as outsiders by the society they live in?
It isn't rocket science is it, bro?
Ginger owned shops as "Ginger Shops"?
We call ours Pink Floyd; no soul. 😀
It isn't rocket science is it, bro?
Sexist.
jambourgie - MemberBut talk about Irish Travellers and my god... It's all there; PROPER racism. Some of the stuff you read on forums/Comment sections regarding this lot wouldn't sound out of place in Nazi Germany or slave-era USA. But it kind of goes unnoticed. What's that all about?
Displacement of hate, it's a pretty common thing. People who're naturally disposed to hate others, or who need to, for whatever messed up reason aren't always all that fussed about [i]who[/i] they hate, so they effortlessly shift from one target to the next as they become socially unacceptable. Not allowed to hate blacks? Fine, hate polish people. Oh not polish people? Fine, hate travellers. Jews off the menu? Fine, hate muslims. Can't hate all women? Hate "feminazis". The arseholes that want to stop trans people going to the bathroom, are the exact same arseholes that would have blamed ****stanis for taking their jobs.
At some point it'll become unacceptable to hate travellers, and they'll all just move onto the next thing, whatever that might be. ****ing economists hopefully, I hate those bastards. Or middle class politically correct lefties.
It ain't rocket science imo, it's all down to intent seen through perspective of common-sense, concepts which both bigoted/racist right-wingers and middle-class politically correct lefties spectacularly fail to understand.
PARKLIFE
The reason why white people shorten and use ethnic identifiers in these types of shorthand,
Just white people?
just perhaps, some ethnic minorities feel uncomfortable about being labelled as outsiders by the society they live in?
So how does that thought apply to cuisine Tom?
If you run a restaurant selling "ethnic" cuisine (or at least westernised approximations of it) then presumably you actively [i]want[/i] customers to know what you sell?
But if calling a restaurant "Chinese" labels the proprietors as "outsiders" then should we call them "chip shops" instead? 😆
And that's the thing: for me, and I suspect some others, this sentiment quickly slips from a perfectly well-intentioned and agreeable [i]"casual racism is bad"[/i] to an utterly infuriating [i]"adjectives are bad"[/i].
But if calling a restaurant "Chinese" labels the proprietors as "outsiders" then should we call them "chip shops" instead
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CaptainFlashheart - MemberSexist.
Again, Macka B taught me how to treat women:
(and vegetables)