[Closed] Is it racist...

English beef and mushrooms, with beansprouts. number 13 at our local east Asian takeaway in the 70's.

🙂

I bet you're hungry now, aintcha...?

Is that really necessary...?

No, apologies to outofbreath - have removed.

Good show!

🙂

I personally think that being offended by words in isolation is a bit weird. They're just a bundle of letters, the crux isn't "what did they say" but rather "what did they mean"

Life is just... like... SOOOOOOOOO complicated nowadays!

"I don't need to know them. I wouldn't use a word if I didn't know what it meant. See how easy this is?"

No you claim you knew all racist words, you didn't claim you never used a racist word.

I've never said Chinky in my life (I've written it a few times today) but I still didn't know it was racist when applied to food, and I'm seriously doubting if it is. I'm waiting to hear what the OED says on the subject.

[I]Cougar - Moderator

It's a computer "program" when referring to software precisely because it was originally coined in the US (see also floppy disk and hard disk versus compact disc; the first two are American inventions, the second a joint venture between the non-American companies Philips and Sony). [/I]

I'd casually, politely, disagree with that, if I may.
Being the first to invent something, as great as that may be, doesn't bestow upon the inventor, the right to incorrectly spell disc.
Just my view.
🙂

Edit:
14 pages.

Has anyone started a gofundme page for the local stables? I suspect they'll be needing a new roof soon.

No you claim you knew all racist words, you didn't claim you never used a racist word.

Where did I say I knew all racist words?

So what aboot calling someone a Jock, or dare I say it a Sassenach?

Sassenach is from Scottish Gaelic Sasunnoch, Irish Sasanach, from Latin Saxones ‘Saxons’.
It just means 'Saxons'. There's nothing derogatory about it at all. Personally I find it something of a compliment. 🙂

Where did I say I knew all racist words?

Wow! You must be super racist to take the time go and learn them all!!

Has anyone asked Prince Phillip where he stands on this? Its not racist unless he says it is

[img] [/img]

how is this for a racist word. nitty gritty.

my wife works for leeds council. a work mate was pulled in by HR for using nitty gritty in a housing department meeting.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/nitty-gritty.html

Huh. Every day is a school day.

"Where did I say I knew all racist words?"

You said this:

"Why would I need to find anything out ?
It really isn't a grey area to me, but if it is to you then you need to think about why."

I thought you were saying that you knew every racist term and therefore had no need to ever check.

If you're just saying you have no idea either, then I can't see how you can possibly dispute my original point.

"Wow! You must be super racist to take the time go and learn them all!!"

That was going to be my next point!

re nitty gritty, from the same article above

There is no evidence to support the suggestion that 'nitty-gritty' has any connection with slave ships. It may have originated in the USA as an African-American expression, but that's as near as it gets to slavery. It isn't even recorded in print until the 1930s, long after slave ships had disappeared, and none of the early references make any link to slavery.

so... not racist then?

I'm with Ton on this though really. As a Midlander living darn Sarf, chinky refers to the food or the place to me. I've never heard it used insultingly and I think you'd have a hard job making it an insult TBH. That said I don't use the term any more because I don't eat Chinese food, and it's not used round here so it's a word that's out of use in my vocabulary. One for the professionally offended though? Certainly.

True story, from my dad.
My dad worked in a factory in our home town of Sutton in Ashfield for many years. Mid 1970s until he retired, 30+ years. There were quite a few blokes there and more than one was called Stan or Stanley. One of these blokes was an Asian chap. Wether he was actually called Stan or it was a name he went by or a nickname I don't know and nor does it matter. But, to his face, in a decent manner, he was refered to as ****Stan. This was no problem. Nobody was being a dick and he didn't mind. That was his home country. No issue for many years......
Until the firm was bought out then when the new management heard they went apeshit. I think the blokes just ignored them and carried on.
It's all about the context words are used in. I'm sure any one of us could be incredibly insulting about anyone without swearing or using any racist terms at all.

I thought you were saying that you knew every racist term and therefore had no need to ever check

Nope, never said anything like that.

Sassenach is from Scottish Gaelic Sasunnoch, Irish Sasanach, from Latin Saxones ‘Saxons’.
It just means 'Saxons'. There's nothing derogatory about it at all. Personally I find it something of a compliment.

But etymology is irrelevant, otherwise "****" would be fine. Is "Sassenach" usually intended to be derogatory? Just checking as I've no idea whether I should be offended by it or not, unable as I am to interpret nuance from language.

"Wow! You must be super racist to take the time go and learn them all!!"

That was going to be my next point!

perhaps so, but i wasn't being serious

[quote=Cougar ]

Sassenach is from Scottish Gaelic Sasunnoch, Irish Sasanach, from Latin Saxones ‘Saxons’.
It just means 'Saxons'. There's nothing derogatory about it at all. Personally I find it something of a compliment.

I like being referred to as Sassenach and 'Roast Beef', but that's because I assume it's a good natured jibe, not intended to be truly insulting.

All the more reason for a definitive list!

Sassenach isn't derogatory. I'm not sure of it's etymology but here it refers to people from south of the Wall, and in the highlands it refers to people south of the highland line (Lowlanders). I think the highland term is the original one and is used by lowland Scots because we all like to think of ourselves as kilt-wearing, claymore-wielding, heather-striding, sassenach-slaying Bravehearts.
OMFG, I'm turning into an anti-me racist.

I've no idea whether I should be offended by it or not, unable as I am to interpret nuance from language.

If I didn't know better I'd think you were trying to be offensive. That's not very nice, is it.

I answer this one by thinking if you feel comfortable saying it to a stranger- any stranger- then no, unlikely to be racist.

An example to illustrate the point: someone new joins your work, they look oriental, you go over and introduce yourself by saying "hello chinky". If reading this has made you uncomfortable, then you have your answer.

If I didn't know better I'd think you were trying to be offensive. That's not very nice, is it.

I do try, i'm just not very good at it

Program is IT or information technology to you as I'm guessing you also don't like acronyms?
Not sure why you'd guess that, but you're wrong.

Because it's a form of making something shorter which you don't like according to your original post. My utter failure in an attempt at humour 😳

In the spirit of the actual thread I agree with those that say the word is racist, but can be said by people without that intent. Mainly older people who have been saying it for years.

"I answer this one by thinking if you feel comfortable saying it to a stranger- any stranger- then no, unlikely to be racist."

Doesn't really help me with Sassenach. I thought it was derogatory, now I'm told it's not.

Saying it isn't gonna help me much.

Doesn't help me with Chinky, either, the only time I remember hearing it applied to food was a bloke saying he was so tight for cash he hadn't had Chinky for months. I didn't know that was racist and saying it wouldn't have helped me guess.

Sassenach isn't derogatory. I'm not sure of it's etymology but here it refers to people from south of the Wall, and in the highlands it refers to people south of the highland line (Lowlanders). I think the highland term is the original one and is used by lowland Scots because we all like to think of ourselves as kilt-wearing, claymore-wielding, heather-striding, sassenach-slaying Bravehearts.

Exactly. The worst a Scotsman can do is say it with a sneer. The odd thing being that the English who live closest to Scotland are of Norse origin, not Saxon!
Maybe being called a Saxon was derogatory to a Norseman, who knows? 🙂

paddy's day....

Or is that ok because it is only the Irish...

And just because Irish use the term i assume it is also ok to use **** because it appears plenty of song lyrics.

You know every racist slang word in use in the uk?

I bet you don't.

(St.)

paddy's day

Paddy, is ok if it relates to a person called Paddy.
Reducing a a group of people to a single name, which often is not their own, is not ok.

Calling a Greek person, Stavros, is ok, if his name is Stavros, but if his name is Patrick, then call him Patrick.

calling a person by a 'typical' name of their country, is ok when it is their name, not when it is not.

I really can't believe we have to explain this

Language changes.

I think it is racist, and even if you don't, it seems an unnecessary version of the word which isn't any shorter and seems potentially rude.

A lot of what people demonise as "political correctness" is just simple politeness and respect for others.

And, [b]TPbiker[/b] just as one chinese mate can't automatically represent the views of everyone of his background, neither can he tell you the word wouldn't offend others, and give you leave to use it.

And lack of intent/knowledge/context does not make it any better, any more than saying to the police you didn't mean to/realise you were speeding.

I do find it weird that several posters have mentioned their northerness as part of the explanation/excuse of why they might use it - or the other, corner-shop related, phrase being debated.

Thing is, we already established that this word, and others similar are offensive, yet they are still allowed on the forum, ban them as we do other offensive words or allow the other ones. I don't understand why one form of offensive language is allowed, yet other forms are not

An example to illustrate the point: someone new joins your work, they look oriental, you go over and introduce yourself by saying "hello chinky" If reading this has made you uncomfortable, then you have your answer.

Not sure that's a fantastic illustration to be honest, because I'd be equally uncomfortable saying "hello person of Chinese descent".

Your example only adds weight to the idea that it is the intent and context that matters most.

mumsnet already did it, 19 pages

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1170401-Racism?pg=1&order=

[quote=outofbreath ]Doesn't really help me with Sassenach. I thought it was derogatory, now I'm told it's not.In the Outlander books/TV series, the Scots hero calls his English Wife "Sassenach" repeatedly. He uses it as a term of endearment. We come back to the fact that intent is more important than the word used.

This again?

Ok I changed my stance from the previous 17 page thread. I still don't think it's offence as such but I stopped using it as Scotroutes have said, times change.

Sassench? Never head of it.

mumsnet already did it, 19 pages

Pretty sure I've had this conversation on here a couple of times before as well 😀

Ok I changed my stance from the previous 17 page thread

This could possibly be the first time anyone has changed their mind based on an STW argulympians episode.

Congrats 😉

Chinky? Its the takeaway - simplez.
Always has been, always will be whether I'm back in the midlands, down here or anywhere else for that matter!
Everyone I know uses it, did growing up and still do.
Kids use it, mate from Hong Kong uses it when he's hungry, the chinese who live behind me own a restaurant and thats the term they used when they introduced themselves and said what they do for a living FFS!
Same as the **** shop - christ one of my best friends in leicester is a Sikh and if you're at his race shop and you want grub he sends the "lad up the **** shop" - which is on the corner and owned by the same guy still who immigrated her in the 60's from guess where....

Its one thing calling someone a "chink" - singular, directed and an insult.
Chinky is a takeaway/restaurant - oxford dictionary states as much.
Same goes for the way "****" is used.
The words aren't - its how the person using them that defines the meaning.