MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
We will be in touch
She has heaps of stuff that I paid for, expensive pushchair, various kitchen appliances, the entire contents of a 2 bed flat apart from my kitchen knives and pots...Is it odd that I want the ring back? It's relatively low value (sub £200) and wouldn't have much resale.
expensive pushchair
How old is she?!?!?
Haha. Old enough to treat me better than she is let's leave it at that.
I've never asked.. I went through a phase where I was engaged 4 times in 3 years....
Hmmm - your kid in that pushchair? If so, I'd probably sacrifice the symbolic satisfaction of getting the ring back for the hope of a decent relationship somewhere in the future.
Otherwise, it's fine and customary to ask for it back, if you are prepared to enjoy the aggro that this will involve.
Ok that's impressive. I'm clearly struggling to comprehend what's happened. Perhaps in my head if she sends it back along with any of my other sentimental items I might believe it's actually finished...
Both kids, Martin. She's not the sort to make a decent relationship in the future...
It's not like your going to use it again (as that would be all kind of wrong) so wouldn't dream of asking for it back.
I wouldn't.
Leave any decisions like that to her; will show the mark of the lady and also prevents you lowering yourself, during an already shitty time.
As I understood it the engagement ring still 'belongs' to the giver even when being worn! Therefore at the end of a relationship the ring should be returned to it's owner, so not at all odd that you want it back.
Regardless of children etc I'd want it back, but I'd also pick my battles carefully as women tend to be much better at this stuff than I am!
What do you mean by 'will show the mark of the lady'?
She's been emailing asking for all sorts of things that she forgot to collect when she raided the flat whilst I was at work. Argh. Best place to bury your head in the sand near Oxfordshire????
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I'd never ask for a engagement ring back. It just shows signs of bitterness. Rise above it.
Convention and possibly the law state , if you break it off she keeps it , if she breaks it off she gives it back. Personally I would not want it back unless it was a "family ring" handed down from generation to generation.
Let her keep it and ask for the kitchen appliances, more useful in future for you surely?
It was a gift, at the time you gave it to her you wanted her to have it.
Don't ask for it back, just rise above it.
I'm definitely not bitter Hora, just struggling to come to terms with 7 year relationship breakdown and the children too. Don't know what to do.
She broke it off, that's a dead cert.
You need to think of yourself and how to move on and heal from whatever has happened. Will having the engagement ring help you in this? Or will just letting it go aid you in moving on? You need to decide.
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You're clearly feeling bitter and angry now, but like it or not, you will have to have some kind of relationship with your ex if kids are involved.
I've never asked.. I went through a phase where I was engaged 4 times in 3 years....
You are
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murf - asking for kitchen appliances would be red rag to a bull. 'You'll only sell them and buy bike stuff!@#$!'
Tbh Martin I don't know what to feel anymore. Life just seems to be rolling by without a purpose or cause at the moment. I know I have my children but I haven't seen them for getting on 3 months now and my parents etc just feel so distant even though I'm living with them...sigh.
Engaged 4 times in 3 years?
You live life in the fastlane Sir (now get off the motorway and don't try crossing it again- use the footbridge in future).
bradley, where abouts in Oxfordshire are you? I'm in Witney(but can drive) if you want someone different to go for a ride with?
It's important that you stay as amicable as possible with her.
I am going through a similar thing. 7 Years also, and not always the easiest 7 years, but I stayed loyal and faithful and loved her through it all.
I am seeing it as I love her and if it's the best then so be it. But it's not easy by any means.
Everyone deals with it differently I guess. But keep calm, stay close with your friends and try not to get into bitter fighting.
Tbh Martin I don't know what to feel anymore. Life just seems to be rolling by without a purpose or cause at the moment. I know I have my children but I haven't seen them for getting on 3 months now and my parents etc just feel so distant even though I'm living with them...sigh.
Sounds shit, and I can understand why you're brooding on what is, on the face of it, the very minor matter of a £200 ring.
Sounds like you need to make a plan and working towards the major things - getting to see your kids being top of the list.
Ask for it back? Doesn't it usually get thrown in your face, whether you want it or not?
+1 to this advice.hora - Member
I'd never ask for a engagement ring back. It just shows signs of bitterness. Rise above it.
Sounds like you're still upset, either fight to get her back or move on, if she's moved out she's probably got someone else in mind so you'd better steel yourself for the inevitable.
+1 on this as well, if they are your kids you need to try and stay as cool with it as possible and accept she's done with you, but that doesn't mean if you can get over the upset that you lose touch with your kids.traildog - Member
It's important that you stay as amicable as possible with her.I am going through a similar thing. 7 Years also, and not always the easiest 7 years, but I stayed loyal and faithful and loved her through it all.
I am seeing it as I love her and if it's the best then so be it. But it's not easy by any means.
Everyone deals with it differently I guess. But keep calm, stay close with your friends and try not to get into bitter fighting.
Corny crap expression, but.. [i]If you love some(one/thing) set it free[/i] if the love is mutual it/she'll return if it/she doesn't then how is imprisoning it/her a means of expressing love?
Jengle - Appreciate the offer and usually I'd accept, gladly, but I no longer ride pushbikes. When all this kicked off I didn't have any motivation to go out and ride on my own so sold up and bought into MX (a Pre85 Honda to restore and a modern Kawasaki to ride) and that's what is keeping me busy at the moment. I'm only Kidlington though.
traildog - I still love her, clearly, but I'm struggling to deal with it at the moment because I'm not 100% sure where she stands...that doesn't help at all. I don't know what she's feeling because I've been asked not to contact her...
Martin - That is of course my priority but what if 12 months down the line I'm not over this and I've got to go and collect my girls from her house and all those awkward awful things that happen to separated parents (new partners etc) I'm just not sure what to do to help deal with it.
It could be worse though, my thoughts go out to the young mx rider (also named brad) who died on Sunday.
She's living with her aunty and uncle in a place where she has no friends nor knows anyone...I doubt she's on the scene again already.
what if 12 months down the line I'm not over this and I've got to go and collect my girls from her house and all those awkward awful things that happen to separated parents (new partners etc) I'm just not sure what to do to help deal with it.
A friend of mine has issues with his ex (he's lost several wing mirrors etc) so she drops his boy at his grandma's and my mate either has tea at his mum's with the boy or picks him up and takes him home from there, this arrangement means he never has to see his ex (and so the boy doesn't see them argue etc) and the boy sees his Grandma twice a week (one weekday evening and one weekend day).
She's living with her aunty and uncle in a place where she has no friends nor knows anyone...I doubt she's on the scene again already.
Don't say that in public, you will have frustrated forum members sniffing around the scent of a recently singled, vulnerable woman....
Seriously my advice stay away, she comes with a lot of baggage...! I still love her though...
If she was a class act, she'd have given you it back when she broke off the engagement.
Because you are a class act, you're going to let that go.
🙂
That's tragic though Jengle, 2 days a week for the dad? I had both my parents all my life, and my grandparents, both sides. A very strong family set up with very good family morales.
She had a broken relationship with her parents which I'm not going into detail but I feel like we (both me and her, mostly me) are failing my girls if we cannot provide a steady stable normal family life. I don't wanna do that to them...
bradley - Member
She's living with her aunty and uncle in a place where she has no friends nor knows anyone...I doubt she's on the scene again already.
Well that begs the question what the heck did you do/not do to force her into that decision?
That's tragic though Jengle
Very true, but as he says it's better than nothing 🙁
According to a report on Europe 1 one in five fathers have no contact with their kids after a separation. That's in France but I doubt the UK is any different. Avoiding things which might fuel the fire will reduce the risk of becoming one of the one in five. Three months is already a long time, the ring issue is fuel that will probably keep the fire burning longer.
The pushchair is for the kids not her, probably a lot of the other contents too. She needs them. Being pragmatic and conciliatory is the way to more contact with your children.
Three things.
1)
Is it odd that I want the ring back?
A more pertinent question might be, "why do you want it back?" (And also, why does she want to keep it?)
2)
Personally, irrespective of "now" the way I'd look at stuff like engagement rings is the same as any personal history; it's a product of its time. If I gave someone a ring it was to express how I felt at that time, how I might feel now doesn't change how I felt about them then, and it would be a disservice to the past few years to demand it back. What the hell would I do with it anyway, pawn it for a tenth of its value?
If roles were reversed I'd expect to keep any gifts, unless they were personal to the giver and irreplaceable; eg, the ring was your deceased mother's or something (which is a bit creepy IMHO, but just an example).
3)
You're breaking up a seven year relationship. With respect, a (now second hand) ring is the least of your concerns. So long as she's not taking the piss, there's no point in being stubborn about the small stuff when you're going to have to discuss things like custody and access of kids.
My advice would be to establish regular contact with your children as a top priority. It will give you something to focus on. Was in a similar position to you a while back, being a good dad to the kids helped me through a difficult patch. Forget about the material things, they won't help you, but being a good parent will help you re-establish yourself as a person in your own right.
Well that begs the question what the heck did you do/not do to force her into that decision?
Agree.
Sigh...deep breath. I for the first time ever lost my temper with my youngest daughter and grabbed her arm to hard and broke it. Completely accidental, no intention to harm and I've never even as so much as slapped either of my children on the wrist for anything, usually very calm and controlled with my girls but that evening just snapped. Obvious underlying issue that needs addressing but what this issue is I am unsure myself so seeking professional help...
OK, the ring is definitely the least of your worries.
I hope this thread doesn't turn into a pitch-forking session.
All the best. 🙂
I admire your honesty.
BigDummy, I'm not too bothered the outcome of this thread now, really. Pitch forking couldn't make things any worse. I've lost over a stone in 3 months, sleeping 4-5 hours a day and not eating properly. It's all guilt and all my fault but anonymous people online can't have a negative affect...
I think its wise that she has the space. The best thing that you can do is continue to receive help, show this and the updates. Do it through your Uncle/Aunt and don't directly approach- give her space.
Park the ring. Forget the ring. Give her space and DONT ring/text/email her directly. It could be misconstrued fella and make things worse. Just use a third party to show your progress.
Edukator it feels like honesty is all I've got at the moment and it's the least I owe to those around me.
I'm not sure anonymous people on line can have a positive effect either, but professionals probably can.
Nothings being done directly. It's all going through our solicitors...
I agree Edukator.
Don't make my mistake & pay for the divorce legal bill & believe it when she says she'll give you half. Still waiting 7 years on
My advice, let her keep it you can't use it in your next victim she'll find out & your name will be Mudd
Good luck mate this is not an easy time for you. There is some sound advice above. For my tuppence, I too think you need to focus on the gain, the ring is inconsequential, your kids however are not. They will grow up one day and wonder what sort of people their parents were, so get to the business of creating a stable relationship with them and making good memories. Your ex will be difficult to cope with for sure but think before you act.
Good - take this time to not just get help but importantly to continue with it. Are you drinking? I slipped into a pattern of drinking (not boozy/alcy) but consistent and daily. Changed my character/made me tired/grumpy/short fuse. Even a couple a night 5days and a big one Sat can screw your normal personality up abit.
OP I really hope you get the help you need. As you already know you will have a hell of a time proving your worth to your ex and gaining her trust enough to spend time with your kids again.
Regular, frequent Judge Judy watching suggests that it is reasonable to expect the ring back as it wasn't a gift but given for a specific purpose that didn't happen (the marrage)
The ring, for £200 it's not worth it.
What's far more of an issue is how you treat your children, I went through a divorce (difficult and very expensive) and I tried as much as I could to put them first (that's doesn't mean gifting stuff to the ex btw).
Good luck, it's going to be a nightmare but one day it [b]will[/b] be over.
My final comment, do not approach, text, call or email her. Even when drunk. Don't. Give it time, let her either decide not to re-start or start on her own terms. Once you've contacted her- well, its going to be a mess/set you back.
I'm talking from experience, but not as the adult or father.
No Hora, not frequently. I went out last night and had enough to not really remember getting home but I was out with my best bud who's been a huge rock so far and is helping out loads. I tend to get my fix/release from thrashing the tits off the MX bikes without worrying about the consequences if it goes wrong...
You guys are great. I'm sure there are some keeping quiet who want to call me a child beater I should be locked up etc which is fine, your entitled to your opinion. I just hope in the end, everyone's happy again. Before Christmas it was perfect and now everyone is living a broken life because of me. The guilt is unbearable.
I figured that you might've been speaking from experience Hora. Everything I do has an implication in their eyes. My buying of the MX bikes was deemed as "irresponsible and a way of hiding the issues" but they failed to mention it was all money from old pushbikes.
Not sure what to make of that. Quite happy where I am working...
Forget the ring and as painful as it is, for the moment if it's what she wants then leave her and the kids alone.
Has she actually said it's over? Reading between the lines it seems she may have left to protect the children, doesn't mean she stopped loving you. Only she can answer that so don't get your hopes up but should you be assuming it's over for good?
If I were you I'd focus on the help you're receiving and make sure she knows about each step. If you can demonstrate that it really was a one off then perhaps you can salvage the situation? Hope for the best but prepare for the worst - you need to make sure you're able to accept it's over if that's what she decides (or has decided).
My parents went through a very messy break up when I was 11. My mum left my dad and his reaction and subsequent behavior has left our relationship still damaged 30 years later. His relationship with my sister is beyond repair.
Whatever you do, do not let this happen to you. Keep things amicable and think long term. Your children are what matters here, not you or your partner.
Your priority are your kids and they will need their Dad in their lives. Getting help is making steps to seeing them again. See this as your goal and work towards this, using all the professional help which is available.
Don't lose sight of this and don't get into arguments.
She left because the courts made her leave and since then she has said 'it's over' etc. She did tell me on one occasion to ignore everything she does as she wants the children back in her care ASAP (she's still supervised to prove she can cope without me, won't allow me back into the children's life unsupervised, which I understand).
The issue I have is on one hand she has told me she wants to work it out in the long run, still loves me and that we will work it out eventually. On the other, she has stated that what she told me was simply a lie to get me to do what she wanted (attend a specific psychiatric assessment in London down that there Harley street) and that it's definitely over she doesn't see a future for us ever again and she wants to concentrate on rebuilding her life.
Which story do I believe because one of them is a lie...
Believe the 'it's over' one, that way you can move on.
Uh huh, what if I move on and when things are steady she says I think I'm ready to try again...
I give up. Nearly end of the day for me so I can go and bury my head in something again this afternoon.
Everyone makes mistakes, try not to let guilt burn you up inside. Concentrate on getting better and mending your relationship with your kids.
Best of luck bud 🙂
I've made a mistake that could pick up enough momentum to ruin the rest of my life...If I get sent to jail for example.
That part is out of your hands, it wasn't deliberate and I'm sure it wouldn't happen again. I guess you have to try and deal with the consequences and then move on.
Easy for me to say, I know.
Having children of 3 and 1 I know how frustrating they can be so I can imagine that if you had something underlying it might tip you over the edge.
bradley - Member
She left because the courts made her leave and since then she has said 'it's over' etc. She did tell me on one occasion to ignore everything she does as she wants the children back in her care ASAP (she's still supervised to prove she can cope without me, won't allow me back into the children's life unsupervised, which I understand).The issue I have is on one hand she has told me she wants to work it out in the long run, still loves me and that we will work it out eventually. On the other, she has stated that what she told me was simply a lie to get me to do what she wanted (attend a specific psychiatric assessment in London down that there Harley street) and that it's definitely over she doesn't see a future for us ever again and she wants to concentrate on rebuilding her life.
Which story do I believe because one of them is a lie...
Badley, she's probably just as crushed by all this as you, but she's probably getting a lot of anti you feedback from her support group. Had she been my daughter regrettably I'd be giving her the same advice, stay away from you.
You have a veritable mountain to climb if you ever want either her trust or bless her the little girl, think how she must be feeling now, in her mind she may be thinking it's her fault she made you mad and now the family have broken up because of her.
You all need help, there must be some support body you could collectively go to, I'm not aware enough about the various services available, you must look into it.
I can only commiserate with you on what is a terrible disaster, which I truly hope was as you say an accident.
Deal with it if/when that happens. If you're prepared mentally to live your life without her then you'll be in better shape to make any further judgement calls.what if I move on and when things are steady she says I think I'm ready to try again...
You sound pretty messed up at the moment, fix that first and then deal with whatever else comes along when it comes along. You can't know what's going to happen so deal with what has happened and is happening.
Edit: And as derek points out, she's probably all over the place too. Sounds like her world fell apart at about the same time yours did.
Thanks guys. It will be over one day and I know this, it's just so difficult to see through such a thick cloud of shit smoke at times.
I had both my parents all my life, and my grandparents, both sides. A very strong family set up with very good family morals
my parents etc just feel so distant even though I'm living with them
Relationships with our parents are complicated, their influence far reaching for better or worse. They had key roles in forming our personalities and value systems, without getting too Freudian this might be a bad time to be living with them.
The British legal and social system loves kicking a dog when he's down. Soak up the kicks, don't bark, don't bite, walk to heel and they'll eventually lose interest and stop kicking.
I struggle with long sentences
From a legal perspective the ring does NOT belong to you.
Funnily enough you're not the first bloke to be in that situation, and the legal precedent is very clear.
I asked for one back once.
It was worth about £10k
I felt at the time it was mine, i owned it.
I was wrong.
"The Law Reform (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act 1970 provides the answer and it is actually relatively straight forward. This legislation states that:
The gift of an engagement ring shall be presumed to be an absolute gift; this presumption may be rebutted by proving that the ring was given on the condition, express or implied, that it should be returned if the marriage did not take place for any reason.
Basically, although it can seem unfair, this means that unless there was an agreement to return the engagement ring if the wedding was cancelled then the recipient is under no obligation to return the ring. The courts will generally say there was an implied intention that the ring would be returned if it had particular sentimental value to the person who proposed, for example if it was a family heirloom.
It is however possible to ask the court to adjudicate on the issue if you are not able to agree, although given the high costs of litigation this should always be the last resort."
I googled this.
And away from the ring point which is really just trivia compared to your bigger issues , Back off from resentment and worry about dividing assets focus on your long term relationship with your children . I do not know your relationship with her but as a criminal lawyer I have seen many lifetimes worth of similar stories to yours sincerely if it has got to this point seek some help to address the issues that got you here , and give her the distance and space to move on ,if she choses not to all well and good but assume she will and let her .
Edukator - I have nowhere else to live.
I'm not gonna ask for the ring back as like others have said it's the least of my worries and if the law says it isn't mine that seals it. I was just trying to work out a way to deal with it.
Thanks crankboy. Useful and precise clarification. I am seeking help to resolve my issues, had several psychiatric assessments and in the process of being referred to somewhere to help me deal with emotional anxiety and anger management which so I'm told due to my aspergers could all be linked...
I am struggling to see any point in my being if I get sent to jail. I try to ignore these thoughts but they are there at the back of my head. I can't deal with losing my children, my partner, my jobs, all of my friends etc...gonna be a sleepless night tonight unless I take more medication I can tell already lol...
You need to talk to someone who wants to help you rather than further beat you up, prosecute you, persecute you, analyse you... . This thread isn't about a ring, you're in a mess and the ring is a tiny but symbolic part of it.
Does anybody on here know Bradley in real life? If you do I think he needs you now whatever he's done and whatever you think of what he's done.
I'm crap at this kind of thing, after previous attempts at being myself on forums my Internet persona here is often a less than sympathetic, abrasive, know-it-all. Not the best STWer to be offering advice. A "troll" currently taking five minutes a sentence and doing a lot of staring at the screen trying to think of something that will help and not doing very well. There is rarely reason to have concern about people on here, I'm concerned. You are in an awful situation, have the strength to pull through, Bradley. Might be worth calling:
[url= http://www.samaritans.org/how-we-can-help-you/contact-us ]Samaritans[/url]
I've ridden with a couple off here but none of them are regulars AFAIK and aren't aware of the situation unless they've read this.
All it seems coming my way from social services is constant scrutiny and criticism and hardship. They're reluctant to offer me any help, all the psychiatric assessments I've pushed for myself through my GP.
I thought I hit rock bottom a few weeks ago, maybe 1 month, when I overdosed on about 4 boxes of diazepam. The trigger was a court date, first time seeing my partner in 2 months and I expected her to at least look at me when she walked in. Completely ignored. Crushed me in a instant and that was the end of the line for me that day.
I feel like I'm creeping back to those thoughts on a more frequent basis these last few days and it ****ing sucks. Can feel myself getting wound up over nothing at work.
Can't see the end. The thought of not seeing my children on their birthdays this year is eating me inside.