[Closed] Is it just me or is this place boring?

I don't think you can blame the 'keyboard warriors' or the mods for the increasing dullness of this forum. There's enough non-hostile contributors on here surely to overwhelm the few sour grapes with their intelligent, inspired positivity... but IMO the chat forum is now overwhelmed with advice threads and underwhelmed with funny.

TSY, as mentioned ^^^^ was generally a positive influence. He's banned I think.

When are these glory days you allude to?

Back when at least 25% of the posts on a given topic were 'tick' and the hamsters took regular fag breaks (wipes tears from eye). Glory days indeed.

And I do mean examples of actual racism. Casual or otherwise. Not some soft-arse, just-itching-to-be-offended, PC over-sensitivity.

Every single gypsy thread has it tbh

Last one ended up with someone claiming that slavery was part of their culture [ not to mention using pikey*- i dont think I could say that about the non white skinned folk and get away with it tbh.

* I doubt I could use a pejorative/derogatory term for Asians on her either and get away with it

I have not read the thread and I agree that it is generally politer and less ranty but it also more boring
I do not know why TSY was banned at all he never did anything bad IMHO
The others I may agree or disagree but I can actually see why they were culled. Miss many of them but still cannot understand why TSY had to go
It is bland on here at times

I thought it was terrible the way the TJ baiters were allowed to continue ion here. on
his last thread i had said the same thing and no response on it all ....he said it and they descended immediately to attack and provoke...we let the bullies stay and hit the victim - like all victims of bullying in the playground his reaction was the often the reason they picked on him

There's still those that chooses to go on personal tirades, as happened to me yesterday. I just tend to ignore it but it does spoil the threads.

Boring?
Depends what you want/expect from a forum.
It can yoyo a bit in here ,but overall it covers a lot of subjects.

It's also a bit like a Big Brother experiment.
The more some posters type,the more their true nature leaks through,they just can't help themselves.
Over time it's easy to get a sense of who to ignore or respond to ,and (probably) what they would be like in RL.

[i]I know who I would have a pint with,and who I would ride in the opposite direction from [/i] 🙂

It's a shadow of its former self.

Having frequented this forum for over ten years, I have to say that many of the current crop of dwellers are as dull as ditch water, and anyone who says that this place is better than it was would probably find the flat farm fields of Iowa and interesting place to visit.

Having said that, STW is a business, and has to look after it's public image. And in today's capitalist society, business is the more important than anything else.

Now, does anyone know any good knob gags?

I only joined 4ish years ago so I didn't know any of the "Big hitters" but I did see a few threads where banter went too far and the comments become cutting and seemed genuinely hateful so maybe the ban was a good thing - At the end of the day they're probably all here under new names anyway.
As for Moderation and boring I think they've got it spot on. I don't personally get offended easily but the cleaner the site can be the better IMO. This place is extremely helpful and I have yet to start a post needing help and not get a genuninely helpful response. Maybe some humour has been lost but there are still enough witty, clever comments around to end up laughing at your phone in public.

I've come to the conclusion, from reading a lot more than I post, that this place has a small clique of those that are either in the vicinity of and ride with the powers that be or have at some point in the past and can pretty much get away with anything, whilst newcomers have a pretty random and unfair application of the rules. Those rules also in themselves are difficult to quantify, personally I might use the term 'Pikey' in real life with no expectation of anything other than light humour or riposte, does that make me racist, I sincerely hope not.
Having said all that it must be a total nightmare having to keep an eye on every thread in this much volume and we are living in tough commercial times, any threat to a businesses existence has to be dealt with, but that should be weighed with the need to keep the community engaged especially with the huge competition from other social media and diversions like actually going riding.

I must just post this quote I read somewhere (wish I'd written it) it sums up my feeling about people who go on the internet often anonymously and then get 'offended'. I can't even remember who to attribute it to it was a columnist or blogger, Guardian I think, doh the joys of alzheimers..

[b]"I hate offended people. They come in two flavours - huffy and whiny - and it's hard to know which is worst. The huffy ones are self-important, narcissistic authoritarians in love with the sound of their own booming disapproval, while the whiny, sparrowlike ones are so annoying and sickly and ill-equipped for life on Earth you just want to smack them round the head until they stop crying and grow up. Combined, they're the very worst people on the planet - 20 times worse than child molesters[/b]

That quote is Charlie Brooker

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/sep/17/comment.charliebrooker ]full article here[/url]

And its absolutely bang on! Some people seem to exist purely to take offence at everything
[b]
You do not have the right not to be offended!!![/b]

I've come to the conclusion, from reading a lot more than I post, that this place has a small clique of those that are either in the vicinity of and ride with the powers that be or have at some point in the past and can pretty much get away with anything, whilst newcomers have a pretty random and unfair application of the rules.

Miles off the mark there.

Miles off the mark there.

Which, incidentally, is also the name of one of my favourite jazz albums.

I've come to the conclusion, from reading a lot more than I post, that this place has a small clique of those that are either in the vicinity of and ride with the powers that be or have at some point in the past

I've not noticed this - I don't think many posters mix socially with the mag people do they?

I might use the term 'Pikey' in real life with no expectation of anything other than light humour or riposte, does that make me racist

Perhaps not racist directly, but you'll be using it as a derogatory term I'm sure. You should be able to see why it's a bad thing to use the name of a social group as an insult , surely?

personally im dissapointed, i mean we havent had a wheelsize debate for at least 3 days...

Oh look,some more of WGM just leaked out.

No offense 😉

A forum is surely only is "boring" or as vibrant as its users, and if anyone believes that a forum requires endless arguing and spiteful name-calling to avoid being boring then I think we'll have to agree to differ.

Ultimately, the users control the content of the forum at least as much if not more than the moderators on STW. If you don't like the content, consider adding something you [i]do[/i] like; it's not a one way system where everyone else exists to provide your entertainment.

Looking at the front page of the chat forum currently, there's: a joke thread; a thread full of "witty" business name suggestions; a 33-page debate on the ethics of overtaking; several threads asking for help and discourse regarding injuries, surgery and other medical issues including mental health; a couple of political debates; a discussion on not-parenting as a lifestyle choice; what new phone / trainers / wood burner / jar jack threads; bacon; witty euphemisms; "what's the last thing you made"; cricket; dambusters; photography; walking routes; office politics... and all on one page of a [i]mountain biking forum![/i] What else do you want? About all it's missing is a religion thread, and I'm sure there will be one along in a minute.

It does beg the question though, why would you choose to frequent a forum which you find boring?

It does beg the question though, why would you choose to frequent a forum which you find boring?

Two words. Word avoidance.

binners - Member
That quote is Charlie Brooker

full article here

And its absolutely bang on! Some people seem to exist purely to take offence at everything

You do not have the right not to be offended!!!

Miles off the mark there.

molgrips - Member

Perhaps not racist directly, but you'll be using it as a derogatory term I'm sure. You should be able to see why it's a bad thing to use the name of a social group as an insult , surely?

You and me, Pub, after a ride we're talking about that movie Snatch and having a laugh, now, look me straight in the eye and say that to me, whilst keeping a straight face..

Has anyone said 'Only boring people get bored' yet? 😀

wilko1999 - Member

Has anyone said 'Only boring people get bored' yet?

If not, let me be the first.

That was a boring response

100!!!

Well done kevevs

If Elf was around now, he'd mark this thread length with: 'wun undered'...

so in his memory...

wun undered

EDIT: dammit, too slow!

What's a jar jack cougar? 🙂 can i use one to open the marmalade.

[i]What's a jar jack cougar?[/i]

Its what happened to his bottle of chilli sauce.

this place has a small clique of those that are either in the vicinity of and ride with the powers that be

I'm a moderator, and I've never met any of the powers that be, whether that's the magazine / site owners or the other mods. People get together fairly often and I'm sure plenty of genuine friendships have been formed on the back of that, but I can count the other users I've met on the fingers of one hand (largely because I'm not sufficiently rad to the power of sick on a bike).

Funny thing though, perception. I've said this before, but when someone gets a warning they don't see whether anyone else does, so it's easy to take things personally. "Why am I being told off and not him?"

I've been using social media systems since before the web existed, and the "clique" accusation is by no means exclusively an STW phenomenon. I think perhaps it's a side effect of any arena where the ratio of regular contributors to occasionals is badly skewed, and IME that's pretty much all of them (google the "1% rule"). The regular posters aren't more privileged, they're just more prolific.

newcomers have a pretty random and unfair application of the rules. Those rules also in themselves are difficult to quantify,

Again, I've discussed this at length. The TL;DR version is that moderation is ultimately a judgement call. There is more than one moderator and individual moderation styles may differ.

The "rules" are a little organic in so far as every time we try to firm something up, people immediately start pushing boundaries to see how much they can get away with.

For instance, you'd think that 'don't make homophobic comments' is on the face of it a fairly simple rule, yes? But then someone says "your gay" (sic) - is that homophobic or tongue in cheek silliness? How should we moderate that? Do we delete it, issue a warning, ignore it? How about "mincing down the trails"? Common parlance on STW, but it arguably could imply a slur based on sexuality.

So if it's any consolation, it's not a particularly easy place to moderate. In the example above, I guarantee that whatever decision we came to, some people wouldn't like it. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. So, feel free to lump it. (-:

Its what happened to his bottle of chilli sauce.

*applauds*

And its absolutely bang on! Some people seem to exist purely to take offence at everything

You do not have the right not to be offended!!!

Balancing this is the job th emods must do and it is not easy

FFS we agree on nothing on here [ and i count binner as a mate*] to see how hard it is for the mods who have to decide which it is for any given post

* Be as offensive as you like to that one 😉

"The person in the room you like the least is the one that's most like you"

I find this depressingly true and in some ways it applies to this forum.

personally I might use the term 'Pikey' in real life with no expectation of anything other than light humour or riposte, does that make me racist

In that situation, yes.

As it's the one that seems to come up most often, I'll repeat what I've said before about the word - stop and think whether you'd use the very similar sounding "****" in a similar (or any) context, and maybe wonder what the difference between the two terms is?

Fred is decent yes.

Fred seems like a decent bloke but after seeing that 'banned from STW' page on Facebook or whatever it was, I genuinely think he needs professional help.

I have to argue the "Pikey" v "****", the one group is a lifestyle choice, out side of the social norms whilst in some instances preying upon society, the other is a racial group and definitely an objectionable insult.

Some what shall we call them so's not to offend? Travellers? They go to brick, it's an option, their choice, they then pay tax like the rest of us, but all the time their lifestyle preys upon ours, in my view they are a legitimate target for base humour.

Nor do you have th eright to be offensive

Oh, you have every [i]right [/i]to be offensive, you just have to accept the consequences of your actions if you do. In the meat world it might earn you a smack in the mouth, whereas on STW we ask that you waive this right and refrain from posting offensive comments, and so it may net you a warning or a ban for trolling if you do.

I have to argue the "Pikey" v "****",

And two short pages ago STW was accused of being boring.

I must have missed that episode of Deadliest Warrior.

Cougar - Moderator
I have to argue the "Pikey" v "****",
And two short pages ago STW was accused of being boring.

And saying that "I hope you didn't get that bike you're going to send me off some 'traveller'" doesn't quite have the same ring does it? 😉

I have to argue the "Pikey" v "****", the one group is a lifestyle choice, out side of the social norms whilst in some instances preying upon society, the other is a racial group and definitely an objectionable insult.

Jesus wept - so you have a low opinion of them and you use a derogatory word about them and then you claim it is humour and ask if it is racist.
Now try this is this racist?

"****" is a lifestyle choice, out side of the social norms whilst in some instances preying upon society,

I have to argue the "Pikey" v "****", the one group is a lifestyle choice, out side of the social norms whilst in some instances preying upon society, the other is a racial group and definitely an objectionable insult.

More ignorance.

English Gypsies and Irish Travellers – Today, both English Gypsies and Irish Travellers are recognised as distinct ethnic minority groups in law because they are recognised as members of a community with a share history stretching back over hundreds of years. As such they are granted the full protection...

Unless you were referring to "new age" travellers. But you weren't were you? No one calls them "pikeys".

we're talking about that movie Snatch

Entirely different. That film consists entirely of caricatures and their language reflects that - they are not real people, they don't live in a real world.

all the time their lifestyle preys upon ours

So there you are accusing an entire group of people of thievery. If that's not prejudice I don't know what is.

all the time their lifestyle preys upon ours

Who you callin' a thieving Pikey?

[img] [/img]

I know what you mean JY. I wouldn't fancy the mods job. Even with the more ...erm... 'challenging' members exiled. I do look forward to some very drunken, in-person bickering in a few weeks though 😀

haha I knew this'd turn into one. Fred is my mate and he should be brought back.

Who you callin' a thieving P[s]ikey[/s]aki?

[img] [/img]

That one okay? It's just a joke etc..

Well he appears to have his nob out. That'd offend me personally

Offended or turned on? 😀

Nothing anyone has said here, other than deliberately attempting to be inflammatory, has argued anything to disprove the fact that by and large the group referred to as 'pikeys' live outside of our society, contribute no tax whatsoever, are often guilty of petty crime and in some instances serious organised crime, they are not just Irish or English, they can be Albanian, Romanian, Czech and from all manner of races, hell I even have a Romany in my own lineage and yes I often refer to myself in a self deprecating manner as a bit 'pikey'.

It ain't racial it is a lifestyle choice, one actually worse than that the unemployed are sometimes accused of.

They 'moved in' to my office car park once, as usual there was no help from the PC brigade and in the end after several weeks of theft, damage, blocked culverts from human faeces, and a spate of local crime the Army moved them on, the Police? Scared witless, difficult to serve a warrant on people of no fixed abode and of course they give you their name and address.
I'm currently awaiting a court case to another Major crime a vehicle I sold to a group (I hadn't realised were Pikeys)which was used in a Major tobacco smuggling scam, which nets them up to 12 million a year, there's a dozen or so of them, every now and then one of them goes down for a year, not bad money do a year inside and come out to a mil in cash, wouldn't you?

So yes we have to protect their human rights, but do we have to be concerned about offending their sensibilities? I don't think so, but that's my opinion, you can maybe join that list of offended on their behalf, but that will all end though the moment they move in round your way, trust me.

Kevevs, was going to direct you to

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/conscientious-objector-on-being-jailed/page/3?replies=96#post-4985851

as its looking a bit old school over there but having caught up with this thread and the pikey-**** debate(?) I realise that the answer to your question is No it's you, this place is not boring.

Think is a bit poor of Fred to get you on asking for his return, has he no pride? 🙂

FFS I can't believe people hav a problem with this.

Yes, there are a lot of travellers committing crimes. Maybe the majority, I have no idea.

But once you start generalising based on race or social group then yes you are being a bigot or a racist. That's the whole point. That's what prejudice means - judging somoene based on some external characteristic.

If you go around using the word 'pikey' as an insult, then it's not fair on decent law abiding travellers is it? Can you not understand this? The whole root of the issue is tarring whole groups with the same brush. Saying stuff like "they're all the same".

Go on, tell the forum that pikeys are all at it, I dare you.

Loads of travellers live near me in Morecambe. Can't say I've ever had a problem - apart from the odd slightly scrawny looking horse being left tethered next to the main road.

I think the point is once you start making sweeping generalisations about groups of people you are on a very slippery slope.

What was your previous forum name by the way whitegoodman?

Where do we stand on Gingers?

[quote=molgrips ]But once you start generalising based on race or social group then yes you are being a bigot or a racist. That's the whole point. That's what prejudice means - judging somoene based on some external characteristic.
+1

Where do we stand on Gingers?

[img] [/img]

It ain't racial it is a lifestyle choice

The courts have tested this assertion with a little more rigour than you have. They reached different conclusions:

In Commission for Racial Equality v Dutton the Court of Appeal held that Romany Gypsies were an ethnic group within the meaning of the Race Relations Act 1976 (RRA) having regard to the evidence of their shared history, geographical origin, distinct customs and language.

More recently in O’Leary v Allied Domecq, a case brought on behalf of Irish Travellers, the County Court accepted that Irish Travellers are also a distinct ethnic group for the purposes of the RRA.

Perhaps a more timely look at the demonisation of particular ethnic groups is explored in the Guardian. The article is from last year, but is also topical given the news over the last couple of days. The whole thing's here:

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jul/22/how-racism-takes-root ]linky[/url]

but you can get the gist of my point from the first couple of paragraphs, to wit:

By now surely everyone knows the case of the eight men convicted of picking vulnerable underage girls off the streets, then plying them with drink and drugs before having sex with them. A shocking story. But maybe you haven't heard. Because these sex assaults did not take place in Rochdale, where a similar story led the news for days in May, but in Derby earlier this month. Fifteen girls aged 13 to 15, many of them in care, were preyed on by the men. And though they were not working as a gang, their methods were similar – often targeting children in care and luring them with, among other things, cuddly toys. But this time, of the eight predators, seven were white, not Asian. And the story made barely a ripple in the national media.

Of the daily papers, only the Guardian and the Times reported it. There was no commentary anywhere on how these crimes shine a light on British culture, or how middle-aged white men have to confront the deep flaws in their religious and ethnic identity.

This would be all well and good, were it not for the fact that we're not debating an actual ethnic group, we're debating (and proving the forum aint boring)that the offended PC brigade (I.e. you lot) make the place uncomfortable for the casual pub banter brigade(i.e. me). I have no idea who even coined the term 'Pikey', it used to be 'Gippo'. Either way it may be a sweeping generalisation of a group, lifestyle or ethnic have it either way, but it aint Racism its a slang term often used in jest.

No more than calling all STW'rs nobs, a sweeping generalisation I have heard in real life which caused me to investigate further, you're not, only those that disagree with me are... 😉

He's going to make you wear one of these...

[img] [/img]

molgrips - Member
FFS I can't believe people hav a problem with this.

Yes, there are a lot of travellers committing crimes. Maybe the majority, I have no idea.

But once you start generalising based on race or social group then yes you are being a bigot or a racist. That's the whole point. That's what prejudice means - judging somoene based on some external characteristic.

Dude were you an Alien you could apply that logic to the entire human race.

They occupy that planet and kill each other in order to destroy it's resources..

Either way it may be a sweeping generalisation of a group, lifestyle or ethnic have it either way, but it aint Racism its a slang term often used in jest.

Hah.. it's only banter, so it's ok.. right. Sounds like the 1970s in here, doesn't it?

What difference does it matter if it's not genetically an ethnic group? Notice I didn't accuse you of racism, just prejudice. It doesn't really matter if it's racial or not.

it may be a sweeping generalisation of a group, lifestyle or ethnic have it either way, but it aint Racism

You might want to consider looking the word "racism" up somewhere or, perhaps let us know what you think racism is?

I've had things stolen from my van twice. On the first occasion I saw the thief driving off (he tried to run me over) and took the number. I drew a picture good enough for the police to know immediately who it was. On the second occasion the van was in a locked compound with video cameras, the police had no trouble identifying the thieves. You'll never guess which ethnic group the thieves belonged to.

On the first occasion I knew where the culprit lived (the camp was next to one of my regular MTB trails and I spotted the car); back to the police who declined to do anything as "I'm sorry but we don't have two coach loads of CRS available".

All those reproachful words the PC on here love to bandy about I call "learning from one's experience and acting accordingly".

Edukator

I don't think the "PC on here" are trying to claim that no travellers steal. However, I think the issue is that your accounts of two incidents of theft or attempted theft don't prove that every traveller steals.

Just as, for example, not every cyclist ignores traffic lights, but plenty of angry motorists will claim they do, because they've seen some that do.

Well those that don't are in collusion because they all live on the same site and all present a united and armed front when the police turn up.

There's something of a gulf between "being politically correct" and "not making sweeping generalisations about an entire demographic."

My personal experience of friendly travelling folk is less than favourable, but I can't - well, I can, but I won't - tar the lot of them with the same brush based on interactions with a minority of them.

I've argued before about the word "chav;" it's not fair to generalise all the unemployed / impoverished young adults as chavs, but the ones who are breaking into sheds and stealing bikes, mugging old ladies for a few quid towards their next wrap, brawling in the streets at 11pm, and generally keeping Jeremy Kyle in gold bricks most certainly are chavs. Maybe the same is true of "pikey"? Some - most perhaps? - travellers aren't "pikeys" but the ones leaving a trail of crime and destruction in their wake can safely be classified as such? Maybe.

'pikeys' live outside of our society, contribute no tax whatsoever, are often guilty of petty crime and in some instances serious organised crime, they are not just Irish or English, they can be Albanian, Romanian, Czech and from all manner of ...

sounds like the super rich to me, tax havens, rigged markets, unaccoutability, oh and a gong or two thrown in......

The thread title needs changing now...

How about:

"Resentment towards authority, people above the law and outlaws".

I'm offended by the Gingerist post on the last page.

Or rather I would be, but luckily for me most of my red hair vacated my head years ago, and what is left has gone grey. 🙂

Czech and from all manner of races, hell I even have a Romany in my own lineage and yes I often refer to myself in a self deprecating manner as a bit 'pikey'.

Is one of you family gay or black? Perhaps you can be rude about them next?

It ain't racial it is a lifestyle choice, one actually worse than that the unemployed are

Some - most perhaps? - travellers aren't "pikeys" but the ones leaving a trail of crime and destruction in their wake can safely be classified as such? Maybe.

* i think most times it used it is racist tbh - read what is being said on here about them and every other gypsy thread
Could i start a thread on Asians and quote those posters verbatim and just replace the words to Asians or Black or gays - would that be ok ?

This is the most pretentious thread I've ever seen on STW.

tenfoot - Member
I'm offended by the Gingerist post on the last page.

Or rather I would be, but luckily for me most of my red hair vacated my head years ago, and what is left has gone grey.

You can always tell, even after the colour has gone. 😉

Pikey v ****

I must have missed that episode of Deadliest Warrior.

Grum, I just let out a proper hearty laugh, I think that's an internet first for me! Thanks! 🙂

The word Chav, is actually more offensive than 'Pikey' given it's recent use came as the description public and private school kids gave state school pupils. Back in the day, chav was a simple inoffensive greeting that street kids might use to each other, "alright chav?" fifties and early sixties, so now it used to insult any lower order group breaking ground in a tall poppy syndrome kind of fashion.

Either way, it is still extremely politically correct to demonise the use of slang from a googled pulpit of pseudo educated offence in my view purely to make someone feel uncomfortable on an internet forum and then to link it to racism.

The problem with 'isms' they are selective where their application should only apply when it is beyond the individuals ability by actual firm body type, to change, i.e.skin colour.

If I were born in ****stan and white, would it be a problem referring to me as a ****?

What about extremely tall people and calling them lofty, or short people being called a dwarf?
No PC 'ism' label for them? Yet equally as hurtful, probably more so than for the white ****, he could pretend he wasn't, so plausable deniability.

That's the problem with the easily offended PC, very narrow in their ism selection.

Yet a group who leach off us, pay no tax yet use our schools and hospitals, steal by their very nature, not contributing to a society deliberately yet still cherry picking the bits you need, is theft, so yes, all Pikeys are thieves. Show me a traveller who pays council tax, income tax and NI and I would not refer to that person as a 'pikey'.

Try to make me feel bad about the frivolous use of the word in describing someone acting in a mildy derogatory manner in jest and do it to my face in real life and I'll assume your having a 'bubble'.

That's got to be it really, it has at least pointed out the lack of boredom here once 'they' get going, the PC brigade.

What about extremely tall people and calling them lofty, or short people being called a dwarf?
No PC 'ism' label for them? Yet equally as hurtful, probably more so than for the white ****, he could pretend he wasn't, so plausable deniability.

You need a label to tell you you're being a prick to someone? You whinge about isms and labels yet cry when you can't find one.

You never answered the question earlier btw. Who did you used to be here?

The word Chav, is actually more offensive than 'Pikey' given it's recent use came as the description public and private school kids gave state school pupils. Back in the day, chav was a simple inoffensive greeting that street kids might use to each other, "alright chav?" fifties and early sixties, so now it used to insult any lower order group breaking ground in a tall poppy syndrome kind of fashion.

so now it used to insult any lower order group breaking ground in a tall poppy syndrome kind of fashion

I think wgm is a tax inspector certainly seems to want to check any travellers tax returns 🙂

Grum, I just let out a proper hearty laugh, I think that's an internet first for me! Thanks!

🙂

I was wondering if anyone would pick up on that.

As someone who knows traveller families, lovely as they are, generally they are upto mischief of one kind or another; they don't see it as mischief , 'jus makin a few bob' but its mischief. Sadly while they're fun to have a pint with (until they're drunk then its scary) no generalisations have been mad in this thread.

Also pikey is a made up word, call them pikey they'll knock you out, gypo you might live.

Anyway, back to the OP for one brief moment

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/best-cook-pan-for-bike-packing

I'd say its a mixed bag.

I find this place very entertaining, helpful and often fun. I am not finding this thread any much of the latter two now.

Myself, I think the [url= http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article851576.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/QUADROPHENIA ]mods[/url] do a good job - apart from the time they closed my threads linking to a very funny site which they thought "Affiliate Links" [I know the owner of the site, it is not AL, it just sucks[and at the same time is damn funny]] - but then "meh" we all make mistakes. And after wards I acted like a tosser, so I deserved it.

Cougar's attitude makes me smile, usually.

WGM - If I may stick my oar in - reading what you are typing, as-is. Yes you are being rude about and unfair towards Travellers if you call them Pikey. There are scumbags and there are non-scumbags. Persons of no fixed abode are not automatically scumbags, so you should not use derogatory language to refer to them, nor should you tar them all with the brush dipped in the bad-behaviour of some.

There is now a tax-free allowance of 8k+, so if a Travelling person earns less than that, they would not pay any tax on their income anyway -much the same as a low-paid shopworker for example. Not to mention Google et al.

They will be paying VAT and other taxes in the course of their lives in the UK won't they?

There is also the matter of treating people with respect. THAT is how we grow an integrated and tolerant society, and where people's natural talents shine through. Label them a Pikey, discriminate against them in other ways from assumptions and prejudice and you WILL find them on the edge of society - disillusioned and angry, ready to hit back at the society that has wronged them.

This is not "PC" this is just what's right.

Entertainingly - from [url] http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Political_correctness [/url]
"Passive-aggressive people who defend racism but don't want to be labeled that way attack dissenters as "politically correct.""

I had a few travellers living down the lane from my folk's house in Cornwall. One was a nice guy, had a hard life perhaps made a few mistakes but a good chap. It was when he was sent down [for possession of speed, which AFAIK he didn't take or own [grass yes, but not that]] that he picked up a smack habit. THAT was what killed him. Nice one "justice" system.

The other people that joined him there [against his will] - they were fairly crazy, nicked a bit of petrol, grew some grass on the hill and made a mess. But meh - I'm more worried about corporate tax dodgers undermining the cash-flow of the entire country. Not to mention the multi-nationals exploiting their workers and sourcing their minerals from militia-controlled child slave run mines.

Maybe it just me. And Bill Hicks.

Always a good time for Bill Hicks. The flag burning routine is a favourite of mine.

had a hard life perhaps made a few mistakes

Well when the train I'm on can't go anywhere because a gang of Roms have [url= http://www.letelegramme.com/ig/generales/france-monde/france/herault-vol-de-180-t-de-cuivre-cinq-interpellations-dans-des-camps-de-roms-31-01-2012-1585372.php ]stolen all the signalling copper cable[/url] along the line those litte mistakes add to reasons to dislike them. Note it took 180 gendarmes backed up with helicopters to safely make the arrests.

When my vehicles are broken into or attempts made to steal them (the damage to my garage mechanics security systems ran into thousands but they saved my van) those little mistakes make me angry. I'm not the only one - [url= http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2012/10/10/97001-20121010FILWWW00331-6-interpelles-dans-un-campement-rom.php ]again it took 150 BAC and Raid police to safely arrest the Roms who had already shot at the police.[/url]

Some groups of Roms make an honest living travelling around fruit picking, labouring etc. The camps in the major cities in France are not there because the occupants want to make an honest living. When a small minority are responsible for [url= http://www.liberation.fr/societe/2013/04/25/paris-40-voleurs-pris-sur-le-vif-en-train-de-faire-les-poches_898973 ]the majority of Metro robberies[/url] people's prejudices are justified.

This is just the stuff that amazes me about the mods, the racism / prejudice that is being spouted here is beyond debate, yet the mods let it roll. Is it because no-one has complained? Really, does it take some to press a button before you recognise it?

I see no difference between this and the old stereotypes we used to here about South Asian and Black people.

What conclusions are we to draw from this?

Prejudices (of the type being discussed in this thread) should never really be justified - I say that writing as somebody who has been the victim of (mostly harmless, sometimes pretty hurtful, and just a few times, pretty scary) it over the years.

I'm not surprised at the level of prejudice in France though. After all, only a few years ago, a far right party polled just under 18% in the presidential election.