[Closed] Is alcohol 'bad'?

It's bad to drink to excess. Something a lot of people seem to have lost touch with. Otherwise normally sensible people will drink too much and turn into nasty, violent people. I don't know whether that's because it's what they're like deep down or what. I only know if I've been drinking the last thing I'd want to do is get in a fight because I'd just get leathered. In fact the couple of fights I've been involuntarily involved in when I had been drinking, that's exactly what happened.

Well some religions are very in favour of booze. It's part of the Sacrament for catholics, f'rinstance.

And wheterh it's bad depends on your genes as much as anything, if your enzymes allow you you to process it by getting lowered inhibitions without side-effects, and if you're a a non-addictive type. As a society, it's bad for us because there are so many people who cannot handle alcohol.. For individuals, it depends.

I cannot immediately find a source, but I definitely read of a study that had tested the supposed effect of alcohol on inhibitions. Apparently it's cultural. If you're British, you expect to feel like starting a fight in the taxi rank when your girlfriend vomits kebab meat onto someone's shoes, so you do. You can give almost limitless booze to an eskimo and this doesn't happen, because they don't expect it to. 🙂

EDIT: [url= http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=nrMRezmNrPcC&pg=PA294&lpg=PA294&dq=alcohol+inhibitions+cultural+study&source=bl&ots=WTSAjl8hyv&sig=Nq8TgAGshutoJQIHfwD4MfGgufw&hl=en&ei=vqsnSs3kBKCUjAfr_pjVAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10 ]Something of the sort here I think[/url]

Drinkers can be bad, never drink.

Don't we have a right to get p1ssed which is as important to us as US citizen's right to bear arms?

whereas he'll smoke weed until he keels over. Cannabis seems to be a drug more suited to him, and his lifestyle (he has 3 kids, and needs to feel in control, which he can't do, if he drinks).

😯

So let me see, he (and you) assume weed has no effect on his control (either emotional or physical)? Dear god.

BigDummy - thats really interesting!

So, do we need something to oil the wheels of social interaction?

I think this is one of the main reasons why we have problems of Muslims integrating in our society. almost all socialising is based around booze.

It's no inherently bad, but I think as a nation we have an unhealthy attitude to it. Being dependent on anything can't be good.

ha ha I thought it might be you who'd start this off RudeBoy

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A glass of wine every day lowers your risk of a heart attack.
A bottle of wine every day increases your risk of needing a new liver.

It's all about being sensible really isn't it?

Cannabis seems to be a drug more suited to him, and his lifestyle (he has 3 kids

So let me see, he (and you) assume weed has no effect on his control (either emotional or physical)?

I din't say that. He just feels that using cannabis is preferable to using alcohol, for him. He feels he 'needs' something, and is aware of his dependency on a drug. Certainly with cannabis, he won't be too inebriated to deal with any little crisis that may crop up. Quite responsible, I think.

I think this is one of the main reasons why we have problems of Muslim's integrating in our society. almost all socialising is based around booze.

That's a very inertesting idea. I went to a Muslim wedding a while ago. Of course, no booze. Felt kind of weird. There certainly was not the 'lack of inhibition' I've seen at other weddings. A few of us infidels were definitely thinking about the lack of social lubricant.

Anything can be good or bad its how its used that is important.
Drink - fine until over indulged
Cars - fine until driven dangerously
Guns - fine if used to shoot clays or legal game safely
etc

Everybody so far is focused on drink being a social lubricant, and it clearly is. What is missing is appreciation of the pleasure from the taste - no different to going out to eat for the enjoyment of the taste of the food. Not saying I don't like the effects of moderate consumption, but I could not live without the enjoyment of experiencing good beer, good wine and good whisky

There's amazing amount of social pressure to drink alcohol (in this country). Go for any sort of night out/function, mention you'll be driving and you'll immediately be told "no - leave the car at home so you can have a drink", or "so you'll enjoy yourself". I'm not getting it - do most folk really believe you can only enjoy yourself whilst tipsy? Note - I do enjoy the occasional libation.

It depends on what and whom is consuming the alcohol and their attitude towards it.

I think this is one of the main reasons why we have problems of Muslim's integrating in our society. almost all socialising is based around booze

Tosh. That works on the principle that all Muslims abstain from drink. As a resident of Birminham for 25 years, I can assure you that this is not the case. There are lots of reasons for social inclusion/exclusion, Muslims not wanting a pint is not one of them.

Go for any sort of night out/function, mention you'll be driving and you'll immediately be told "no - leave the car at home so you can have a drink", or "so you'll enjoy yourself". I'm not getting it - do most folk really believe you can only enjoy yourself whilst tipsy?

I can see the logic. There's nothing quite as horrific as being sober when the rest of the party are drunk.

I'm not getting it - do most folk really believe you can only enjoy yourself whilst tipsy?

I think many would argue that they have a [i]better [/i]time when "lubricated". A good social occasion is a good social occasion, regardless of booze. A bad social occasion can be made better with booze

Certainly with cannabis, he won't be too inebriated to deal with any little crisis that may crop up.

Tosh. That works on the principle that all Muslims abstain from drink. As a resident of Birminham for 25 years, I can assure you that this is not the case. There are lots of reasons for social inclusion/exclusion, Muslims not wanting a pint is not one of them.

Well some of the Muslims that I knew would drink a little every now and then, but they certainly wouldn't ever be seen anywhere near a pub, or ever drink in public.

What makes you so sure?

Whenever I want to feel better about my own drinking, I just try to catch an episode of Booze Britain on Bravo.

Especially the one where the lads drink each other's vomit.

But in answer to the original question, no, it's very good.

Tosh. That works on the principle that all Muslims abstain from drink. As a resident of Birminham for 25 years, I can assure you that this is not the case.

Ok. How many Muslim people do you see down the pub? Or with a glass of wine in their hand, at a gallery opening?

I've worked with Muslims, who woon't come down the pub after finishing work on a Friday. So, what do we do, which would include them in the group?

There's amazing amount of social pressure to drink alcohol (in this country). Go for any sort of night out/function, mention you'll be driving and you'll immediately be told "no - leave the car at home so you can have a drink", or "so you'll enjoy yourself". I'm not getting it - do most folk really believe you can only enjoy yourself whilst tipsy?

this is probably why i tend to be considered somewhat of a misanthrope by many of my acquaintances; i haven't had an alcoholic drink in over 20 years now and whilst i don't care either way whether anyone else chooses to have a drink or two (or more), i do end up feeling quite uncomfortable if i'm out with friends and they're getting pretty drunk/rowdy. it's fascinating/weird/unsettling watching their personalities change so much in a relatively short space of time, purely through intoxication.

How many muslims do you see with a spliff?

This is about alcohol, it's benefits/evils, not about Muslims.

Why not start up a thread about that?

Only thing that is bad is excess.

short answer yes
even a glass everyday will get you a new liver

If you are in town on a night out virtually all the trouble you will see is alcohol fuelled. Got to casualty and the trouble is alcohol fueled. Domestic disputes where some poor soul gets stabbed and it is alcohol fueled.

What I dont understand is why sane rational clever people see it as a badge of honour to get so pissed that they cant remember what happened the next day.

For me Alcohol is bad.

juan - Member

short answer yes
even a glass everyday will get you a new liver

Balls

No, just too stoned instead. Presumably he thinks another advantage is that he can still drive after taking cannabis, but not after drinking?

What a completely rubbish statement... 🙄

druidh - Member

There's amazing amount of social pressure to drink alcohol (in this country). Go for any sort of night out/function, mention you'll be driving and you'll immediately be told "no - leave the car at home so you can have a drink", or "so you'll enjoy yourself". I'm not getting it - do most folk really believe you can only enjoy yourself whilst tipsy? Note - I do enjoy the occasional libation.

I agree with this 100%.

I spoke to a girl in my local about a lad she was seeing. She is no longer with him because apprently he's boring. I asked why and the only reason she could give was that he didn't drink which amazed me.

I like a good few beers at the weekend as I think it's a good stress reliever. I also drink to make people more interesting!

ask any copper how many "alcohol based problems" have been due to excessing consumption of bitter or ale.

and how many are due to larger and lambrini?...

i dont like being drunk.

sociably tipsy, great, but i never drink more than that (ever, ive been drunk less than 10 times in my entire life)

ive also never touched weed or fags.
truely hate the stuff, no i dont need to try to to "find out for myself", ive seen the total cnoots it makes my friends, upsets me and I dont want to be associated with it.

i also enjoy the moral high ground of being able to call my exs, hippy mother a "liberal MORON"

Well never touch weed or fags or alcohol and to be honest the result of it doesn't make me want to 😉
However I though brits were pretty tolerant with non drinkers, or maybe it's because they new they will always get a drive back home?

So Olly; you're claiming that it's certain types of alcohol, that cause the problems? Even particular brands?

I have a feeling that 'chavs' may be mentioned at some stage...

What a completely rubbish statement

Dunno, never tried cannabis so maybe I don't have the experience to comment, but from all I've seen, people don't seem to retain complete control of themselves after smoking it.

Well some of the Muslims that I knew would drink a little every now and then, but they certainly wouldn't ever be seen anywhere near a pub, or ever drink in public.

What makes you so sure?

Because I used to drink in my local, The Bear Hotel, with them. Suggesting that all Muslims won't/don't drink is just untrue and TBH is conforming to a stereotype far more likely to lead to exclusion than your original suggestion.
As has been pointed out though, this isn't really the theme of the thread, so maybe it's time to move on.

Dunno, never tried cannabis so maybe I don't have the experience to comment

No, you obviously don't. Not that it stopped you...

By 'keel over', I merely meant 'fall asleep'. You can't exactly OD on weed. And ime, you reach a level of stonedness, which you can't really go beyond, because you'll probbly just stop smoking, or fall asleep/keel over.

As for smoking and driving; my mate does not in any way drive, but regardless, cannabis does not in any way have the effect of impairing judgement/reaction time etc, that alcohol does. I've got stoned at CYB, then blasted down the tracks faster and more smoother than when 'sober'. Probbly 'cos I'm more physically relaxed. But my mind has been sufficiently sharp enough to avoid accident.

My point was, that as a parent, my mate feels in sufficient control while stoned, to be able to deal with any issues with his kids. Which woon't be the case, were he to be inebriated through alcohol.

cannabis does not in any way have the effect of impairing judgement/reaction time

No, not anywhere near the levels alcohol will, Juan.

As before, Trust in RudeBoy.

I have much experience in these matters.

So Olly; you're claiming that it's certain types of alcohol, that cause the problems? Even particular brands?

I have a feeling that 'chavs' may be mentioned at some stage...

No, carling doesnt have any specific traits that make people dckheads,
but the type of person who is happy to drink pint after pint of watered down knatts piss, purely under the pretense of "having a good night by getting paralytically ****ted" (to quote a housemate) would be grouped into that paticular classification of person

anyone who claims to enjoy that stuff in any quantity is lying IMO.
its nothingy, so its easy to drink, so you can consume more in a shorter amount of time,
and once upon a time it was cheap.

Bitter and Ale has more of a taste, is heavier, and is drunk by most people to be enjoyed in itself, not to drink for the alcoholic content?

"cant judge a book by its cover"?
i whole heartedly disagree,

im not trying to discourage it! knock yourself out, if thats how people want to get thier kicks, then thats hunky dorey with me.

ok so 99 % of my mates drink when we go on ride they got hammered at the top. The one that got hammered the most goes down the faster. Therefore if I follow your example, being drunk does not have the effect of impairing judgement/reaction time as they go down very fast and do not fall.

Weed and alcohol are both bad, the both **** up the chemistry of your brain/liver, impair your reaction time space awardness and gave you the false feeling of safety. I have seen too many people high on weed falling off because they were too stoned to walk.

the one that got hammered the most can go quicker because his reactions are slower?

hes more fluid and floppy, and has more flow over the trail than someone who is more inhibited by being sober.

in the same way, in a drunk driver crash, the drunk driver stands a MUCH better chance than the non drunk driver, and a drunk person falling over is highly unlikey to hurt themselves as they "ragdoll" and go with the fall rather than working against it.

Certainly with cannabis, he won't be too inebriated to deal with any little crisis that may crop up. Quite responsible, I think.

MORE responsible than alcohol, maybe but responsible would be getting help due to his reliance on substances.

Being stoned on cannabis does not leave you able to deal with crises, from the few people I've known who used it more than a weekend social "one off" they were unable to make rational decisions while using, unable to appreciate the urgency of some situations "theres a bus coming"..."yeah, who cares, he'll stop".... Combining that with bringing up 3 kids - sounds to me like he needs help, and maybe his kids would have a more engaged and reactive father. But then I dont know him or his kids, I only know the effects ive seen with my own two eyes. They were not pretty, in any case!

Jeeze, the bloke likes to relax with a spliff or two, once his kids have gone to bed. Hardly irresponsible parenting... 🙄

I love the way people who have **** all idea of using cannabis feel qualified to comment.

You dont have to drink-drive to know that doing so is wrong and you dont have to fall apart and lose the ability to cope with real life due to drug use to know that some drugs are not good for you, you can watch other people do both and draw the same conclusions. Sure, some people do cope, but it's not a clever idea is it. Doesnt it make far more sense to try to work out WHY he has a problem with it (as he/you admit) and try to fix it? As I said, dont know his kids or him, he might be fine but what you say suggests otherwise and then tries to defend him as normal. Sitting down each evening when the kids have gone to bed and getting wasted would be bad - why not with any other drug that makes you less able to deal with possible problems your family may have. It's personal choice, of course, but I don't have to agree with it, or consider someone who does that a responsible parent.

My point was, that as a parent, my mate feels in sufficient control while stoned, to be able to deal with any issues with his kids. Which woon't be the case, were he to be inebriated through alcohol.

Jeeze, the bloke likes to relax with a spliff or two, once his kids have gone to bed. Hardly irresponsible parenting

Used to go to do a sport of mine fairly regularly with a mate who smoked maybe 3-4 a day, give or take (depending on his stress levels at home) - we used to drive to the location and shared lifts. I hated days when he drove - his reaction times are shot, he drifts in lanes, he makes poor decisions when faced with a need to react. I started driving every time and just grabbing a few quid for fuel. Yet he comes across as a perfectly sane, mild mannered guy with good driving skills when forced to be off the drugs for other reasons. He has a kid now, I only hope he doesn't drive them anywhere under the influence.

There's also the big difference in product strength from the stuff smoked in the 60s and 70s, isnt it reported to be several times stronger these days?

Because I used to drink in my local, The Bear Hotel, with them. Suggesting that all Muslims won't/don't drink is just untrue and TBH is conforming to a stereotype far more likely to lead to exclusion than your original suggestion.
As has been pointed out though, this isn't really the theme of the thread, so maybe it's time to move on.

What utter nonsense - saying that by and large Muslims don't drink or go to pubs is hardly stereotyping, what with it being a central tenet of their faith and all that. I have NEVER seen a Muslim in a pub in Lancaster despite a sizeable community here.

Right, seeing as how some people are ignorant of the facts...

No, actually, I can't be bothered. I'll just report me mate to Social Services, and be done with it. 🙄 and get the both of us checked in to rehab.

Looked after three patients today at death's door due to sustained drinking.

On the other hand, tonight, I will enjoy a post-ride beer.

And so it goes.

What utter nonsense - saying that by and large Muslims don't drink or go to pubs is hardly stereotyping, what with it being a central tenet of their faith and all that.

Yes it is. Not all Muslims are devout. Stereotyping suggests that if you're born Muslim then you have have to be some kind of koran weilding zealot. Lots of Muslims drink.

I have NEVER seen a Muslim in a pub in Lancaster despite a sizeable community here.

Try the Bear Hotel in Birmingham then. Everyday's a schoolday.

Otherwise normally sensible people will drink too much and turn into nasty, violent people.

No, only nasty violent people behave like nasty violent people when drunk. It's just that when sober they have learned to [i]act [/i]like normal people.

Right, seeing as how some people are ignorant of the facts...

Though we're just going on what you've told us - have you been inaccurate? Or have you just realised that your position is unsustainable?

I always back meself up with facts, aracer; which you'd know, if you ever bothered to read owt I post. And i'f I'm wrong( unlikely, I know), I admit it.

You're just making a mountain out of a molehill, for the sake of argument, and looking foolish. Go and have a spliff, and chill out! 😀

Well I didn't have to store it away for long...

RudeBoy - Member

TBH, there's not a great deal of sense in my statement anyway, so I'm surprised anyone has taken any notice of it, really.

I'll send you a DVD of me sleeping, as you obviously need some excitement in your life... 🙄

How can it be argued that weed doesnt slow your reactions down? It slows down nerve trasmission, thus making you feel uninhibited, relaxed, sleepy etc etc etc depending on the dose. Ever noticed stoned people speek slowly?

FWIW, I'm 3 weeks into my alcohol free experiment, haveing a lot less headaches, and generaly feelibg better, also happier, like that feeling you get after excercise but all the time.

Alcohol and weed also supress a lot of hormones, hence they make you fat, and wont allow muscle to build up/repair. In 3 weeks my 'core' has gone from a bit of a flabby mess to nearly an 8 pack with no additional excercise or special diet!

Rudeboy pwned, I think. 😉

spoon, I've been drinking and smoking weed for twenty five years and I've always had stomach muscles and never been overweight.

Kev

Rudeboy pwned, I think.

Don't be stupid. I'm unpwnable.

Now pay attention: Weed may 'slow' you down, but nowhere near to the extent that it will seriously impair your ability to carry out a task, in the way that alcohol will.

Got it? Lots of Alcohol will make you fall over, and be incapable of doing anything too demanding, like walking. Smoking even a fair bit of dope will still leave you capable of most tasks.

Right. Have we cleared that up now?

Anyone with any [i]real[/i] experience of using Cannabis care to offer their thoughts? i'm not inertested in what your mother's brother's uncle's daughter's next door neighbour's budgie's imaginary friend's experience is...

Anyone with any real experience of using Cannabis care to offer their thoughts

Ok,as an ex user - dope will affect your ability to drive safely. Any tokers who disagree with that are in complete denial. But lets face it, most tokers are usually in denial about the negative effects of cannabis.

[i]In a study by the Transport Research Laboratory, people who drove a car at 66 miles per hour had a stopping distance of around 270ft, but after smoking a joint this increased on average by 15% to 310ft. In a slalom test, those who had just smoked a joint knocked over 30% more cones.

Some experts claim that smoking a cannabis joint has roughly a similar level of impairment on driving ability as drinking four pints of beer. Also, reports show that in the majority of fatal RTAs where cannabis has been detected in a driver's body, alcohol has also been detected. Alcohol alone or in combination with cannabis increases impairment, accident rate and accident responsibility (the same can be applied to other drugs, too). [/i]

[i]The study was published online by the British Medical Journal the day after the Home Office published proposals suggesting that people caught in possession of up to 500 cannabis joints were likely to escape drug dealing charges.

Researchers at the French National Institute for Transport and Safety Research studied fatal crashes involving 10,478 drivers who were tested for drugs and alcohol between October 2001 and September 2003.

They found that 681, or seven per cent, of the drivers tested positive for cannabis and 2,096, or 21.4 per cent, had alcohol in their blood. A total of 285 drivers tested positive for both substances. The risk of being responsible for a fatal crash increased as the concentration of delta-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the active ingredient in cannabis, in the blood increased.

Those with up to one nanogram per millilitre of THC in their blood increased the chance of fatality by 89 per cent, while those with five or more ng/ml of THC increased the risk of death by 206 per cent. Samples showed that the prevalence of cannabis in France's driving population was 2.9 per cent, roughly the same as for illegal levels of alcohol.[/i]

Rude Boy, you don't have to be stupid all the time, take a day off.

...and yes, I have experience of cannabis, and that's why I know it's not big or clever....

As a drug/alcohol worker, the one fact I can convey to you all is "STW'ers spout an awful lot of crap!"

BB

is booze bad

bloody awful, if the pubs shut and you have run out

cannabis does not in any way have the effect of impairing judgement/reaction time etc, that alcohol does.

Not the [b]same[/b] effect, but an equally dangerous one if behind the wheel.

Yes, I am experienced.

Is booze bad? No.

Are guns bad? No.

Are knives bad? No.

Is "Fire" bad? No.

Is the way we live in serious need of reappraisal? Yes.

"A spliff" can't be compared to a set amount of booze because spliffs can contain varying amounts of cannabis.

Weed will affect your reaction time but it can also help you tune in to an activity, climbing, biking etc. You would be wanting to take it easy though.

In moderation cannabis isn't necessarily a dangerous drug.

The increase in potency in recent years has been the worst thing that could have happened for attempts to "free the weed". I used to enjoy it as a way to relax and have a laugh, I knocked it on the head because the only stuff I could get was like tranquilisers.

Weed is like drink or any other drug. If you can keep perspective and control your usage it can be enjoyable and add to your quality of life. If you can't it will start to have negative effects.

"STW'ers spout an awful lot of crap!"

keva, but would you not be even fitter if you didn't?

I have one personal experience of using dope. I was seeing the most incredible things in pictures in a book on Gaudi the architec that most definately weren't in the actual structures, conversations had gaps of what seemed to be several minutes between sentences, and I can barely remember anything at all of the Johnny Thunders gig I saw six hours later. Thankfully I didn't own a car at the time or I'd have killed myself, I'm sure. I do drink alcohol, but I hate getting drunk. I love the taste of a good pint, not the flavourless fizzy crap morons pour down their necks to get wasted, and I can go for days and not drink alcohol. Maybe if I had more money I'd drink more, but it would be because I love the flavour of a really good ale, and it's the alchohol that gives that flavour. Those low-alchohol drinks are pish, I'd rather drink orange and lemonade. I've found a beer with a fairly low ABV of 3.2 which has a really rich taste which is very drinkable, which I'm enjoying a lot. It's called Bank's, and it's on a par with ABV5.0 beers. Worth tracking down for anyone not wanting to get off their tits but don't want to stick to watery gnat's pish. As far as myself and all my circle of friends are concerned alchohol is something to enjoy for it's flavour, like good food, and it's never been needed to lubricate social occasions in the thirty or so years I've been socialising with these same people. Doesn't mean that there haven't been some occasions when people have been utterly wasted on a sofa with a kitten perched on their head after a birthday bash!

Jesus H Christ.

Sorry, but where did I say that smoking dope was not bad at all? Eh? Please...

I think you'll all agree, at least those with some real knowledge of cannabis and it's affects, that yer average cannabis user is probbly going to be more 'in control' than someone who's had 3 or 4 pints or more. This is all I'm trying to say. As for my mate; he accepts his addiction is less than ideal, and is looking at ways to cut down, or hopefully stop all together, as he concedes it has a detrimental affect on his life. He simply feels that he can be more 'in control', if he's stoned, than if he's pissed. He is as aware as anyone, of the long term impact of habitual cannabis use, hence our discussion.

I've ridden me bike home, stoned, on many an occasion. Never had a crash. Ridden at CYB, stoned, and not crashed. I used to ride, skin up, have a spliff, and carry on riding, with no mishaps. I've ridden stone cold sober, and crashed. Nowt conclusive there, then. However, on the few occasions I've foolishly ridden a bike after even just a couple of pints, I've not felt sufficiently in control, and have had a few crashes, which were undoubtedly a result of my intoxicated state.

Cannabis, if abused, is a dangerous drug. I've not denied that. But I, and many others I know, have managed to perform tasks, whilst very stoned, that we would be incapable of, if pissed.

Some experts claim that smoking a cannabis joint has roughly a similar level of impairment on driving ability as drinking four pints of beer.

I would love to see the facts to back up such claims.

So, you can quote 'scientific claims' all you like. I'm not actually disputing them, as long as they can provide 'proof'.

IME, alcohol renders you more ****ed, than dope, if abused.

RudeBoy I have to agree - pot has very different effects to alcohol. People who have not tried either or both are really in no position to argue. The main difference in my experience is that alcohol confuses your thought processes and slows them down, whereas pot makes you chill out and seem over-relaxed while your mind becomes sharper and insight is easier to gain.

There again, if you want a habit for life I would suggest alcohol, as pot seems to stop working the way you enjoy after a few years, and is easier to give up.

Much of the musical, artistic and poetic genius of the last 200 years can be largely attributed to the influence of drugs; despite modern social norms there is something to be said for altered states of consciousness Going to drink 6th can now and go to bed.

I parked my car in my garden pond after using excessive pot and booze...

I'm not sure what the moral of that story is but I'm not very proud of it.
Like everythnig in life moderation has a lot to do with it. Any 'drug' can be highly dangerous esp iof you have an addictive personality. Therefore you need to exercise caution unless you truly do not care. It does amaze me that booze is seen as 'social' whereas 'drugs' are not. Odd. Both equally damaging but one is taxable and freely available.

I think you'll all agree, at least those with some real knowledge of cannabis and it's affects, that yer average cannabis user is probbly going to be more 'in control' than someone who's had 3 or 4 pints or more

No, I don't agree - and yes, I've certainly tried both. "Yer average cannabis user" is probably less violent and less boisterous than a drinker, but more "in control"? No. Try holding a conversation with either of them. A game of footie in the park. Neither the cannabis user nor the drinker will be performing as well as they could straight.

'experienced' smokers and drinkers have completely different experiences to those who have just started. Obvious staement I know!! When you first start smoking weed its all about the uncontrolable giggles, the munchies, the care free attitiude, the fun of a new experience - young carefree and single days. 25 years on and its all about relaxing for me and prefering to be 'stoned' (not as in giggles and paranoia(?)). It also makes me care less about all the sh*te that goes on in the world (head in sand) ranging from the office politics, to terrorism to politics. Maybe I should care more and try and do something to change the world but I dont and I know weed makes me feel this way....whether thats good or bad I'll leave it up to you to decide. What I do feel though is that this complete lack of interest to 'outside' issues definitely makes me concentrate more on family and homelife - all my motivation, attention and efforts go in to the family life and on things I enjoy, weed smoking has certainly helped my life although it doesn't need helping (I'm ready for the backlash after that comment!).

A couple of smokes in the morning before my daily commute definitely zones me in and makes me more aware of surroundings.......I know this as the odd accassions I dont have a smoke before work the ride is alot more 'jittery' and not as enjoyable. A coule of spliffs on the way to Llandegla has never done me any harm physically or emotionally - IMO it make s me concentrate more without actually realising I'm concentrating - fluid movements. Also makes me more tolerant to some the w*nkers in cars!! Also makes the return journey home from work faster....the faster I ride the sooner I can have that cuppa and spliff at the back of the garden. And no, it doesnt rule my life! And yes, I am ALWAYS in control

Coulde I give up? I dont know but at this stage of my life I have no intentions of even contemplating it. I'm a very realxed person naturally, the story could be completely different for somebody else with different traits.

Kids are fully aware of my 'lifestyle' and have no objections at all...if I do ever get stressed they have a laugh by telling me to have a spliff! And no, they have never tried it and and very unlikely to until they are 'ready' (if ever) as they are well educated and sensible kids with alot of 'street sense'. Some of their friends smoke it but they have never tried it.....I know they would tell me if they had. They have more knowledge about it than their friends who do smoke it - maybe this is why they have chosen not to try it? And no, we are a respectable family with good jobs - wife has own very successful business but does NOT smoke. When she has a few too many drinks kids tell her that she sghould smoke instead as they dont like the change in personality that drink has on folk.

Too many people reading this would probably compare me and family to the Gallaghers in Shameless - IMO its those people that need educating.

6 of us play poker every friday for last 10 years or so......the 4 of us who smoke (I suppose we eack skin up about 3 to 4 times over a game of poker - dont worry, we smoke outside!) are much more attentive and successful at the game than the two who chose to drink. Just an observstion!!

I'm rambling here aren't I??!! Right, time for a huge muffin with a cuppa. Did i say 'experinced' smokers dont get the munchies??

spoon, I don't need to be any fitter, I ran a 10k xc run last year in 41 min 52 sec and came 28th out of 418 runners - I can ride my bike for hours on end at a pretty quick rate of knotts.

drink and drugs do not ruin a persons health and fitness if used in a sensible manner - well they've never ruined mine anyway, Im in good shape for 40yrs old... resting heart rate 45bpm, 14.5% body fat, weight 9.25stone, bmi smack in the middle of healthy, level 12 on a bleep test etc... People are quite capable of destroying their health without drink or drugs anyway... check out the junk food and cola addicts who never take any exercise.

Kev

A couple of smokes in the morning before my daily commute definitely zones me in and makes me more aware of surroundings

And no, it doesnt rule my life! And yes, I am ALWAYS in control
Coulde I give up? I dont know but at this stage of my life I have no intentions of even contemplating it.

lets change the subject............IS SEX A BAD THING?
(pulls up chair)

Junkyard - you misread. I dont NEED to get stoned to concentrate on commute (or for anything else) but for me it helps me focus BETTER in the morning, certainly not dependant on it to ride safely, "makes me more aware" than if I havent had any. Could this be the case of the nicotine in spliffs waking me up quicker than if I hadn't had any at all thus making me more alert and focused quicker? ie forcing the wake up process as opposed to waking up and feeling alert naturally which takes me a while.

Not the norm to be stoned, well between 9.30am and 4pm anyway! Often go a few days without and it doesnt bother me. Its a choice I've made because I enjoy it and it helps me to just shrug off alot of the sh*t happening in the world which would otherwise annoy me.

I have reread my posting and if you mean I'm not in control cos I'm not sure if I could give up if I wanted to then granted I'm not in COMPLETE control but if I ever decide to give up we shall see how much control I have (over myself) when that time arrives. I like it so I have no intentions of giving up, yet

As for avoiding functions/gatherings where you cant smoke - my wife owns a successful business where entertaining and brown nosing play a huge part of getting business in (as with alot of businesses) and I'm more often than not a part in that socialising aspect - I dont like to do it but thats not down to not being able to have a toke, more along the lines of why do I have to be nice to these people who I dont like after spending a few hours with them. If I liked to brown nose and tell someone how fab they are to get their business I would proably be in sales. As for family functions and social gatherings other than work related - I luv'em even if I cant smoke or havent had a smoke beforehand.

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I love these photos of Cardiff from here

[url= http://www.pbase.com/maciekda/wales ]Wales Photos[/url]

but also picked up by the national media

[url= http://www.****/news/article-1182373/Welcome-binge-Britain-Polish-photographer-documents-years-drunken-revelry-Cardiff.html ]Daily Mail picks up on it[/url]

Can't imagine a bit of schmoke leading to all this.

Some of the hysterical anti-smokers have very odd points of view