[Closed] iPhone 5

No, I think think he's saying that when he needs it , he's got skyfire which is different from being good to have.

I'm not the biggest apple fan, I'm a pc person, and I've always resented flash from it's early days as a cumbersome , intrusive means of having media rich content where it isn't necessarily needed.

Then you have adobe being soooo slow to update flash .... (Is there a 64bit version out yet ? )

I won't miss it

Ok, but what problems do you have with Flash now?

I just don't see any issues.

Really? Not seeing any of them because my work laptop has Flashdance installed. Any of them doing anything exciting and useful then? Contributing to your browsing experience in any useful way?

No, adverts, but I like the option of picking what I see 🙂

My point being flash is everywhere, and still offers more compatibility and power than the likes of HTML5. Phones are rapidly getting faster, running flash content isn't going to make them bat an eyelid.

What sites do you browse then? The front page is covered in flash videos, the BBC and most big content providers websites have loads of flash content. They can work around and use HTML5 in places, but then why should they have to bother? Especially when HTML5 is only partially supported in all browsers. In what way is HTML5 in any way better?!

Then you have adobe being soooo slow to update flash .... (Is there a 64bit version out yet ? )

64 bit doesn't mean it runs faster, it means it has access to more memory. Flash windows generally don't eat multiple gigabytes of memory.

But if it's running in a 64bit browser.... Such as ie8 etc ....

Anyways, I can understand why it became popular, but I'm just not a fan, maybe it's just me getting frustrated by sites which make too much use of it. I'd rather have an HTML coded page to navigate by, with some little additions of flash than a full screen animated page of pish which does nothing but waste time cause buttons and menus are doing daft twiddles.

What sites do you browse then? The front page is covered in flash videos, the BBC and most big content providers websites have loads of flash content. They can work around and use HTML5 in places, but then why should they have to bother?

Because the sheer volume of people who now browse using iOS devices means that the sites have to sit up and take notice of the fact.

Because the sheer volume of people who now browse using iOS devices means that the sites have to sit up and take notice of the fact.

Remind us again of what that volume is, when compared to the volume of interweb traffic that is from [i]other[/i] devices.

See, I've yet to have a bad experience with Flash.
My system doesn't crash, the videos run smoothly, I don't suffer from over-memory usage problems.

I can only conclude your very lucky then. Google "flash browser crash" or "adobe flash security" and read up on the various issues.

Flash is often cited as the number one reason that browsers crash or grind to a halt (that and the other wonderful Adobe product, Acrobat Reader).

Why do you think Microsoft has decided not to support Flash on Windows 8 tablets/phones?

Even loddrik on this thread said that "flash just slowed down what was otherwise a superb browsing experience" on his Galaxy S2.

What sites do you browse then?

My interests are many and varied. 🙂

The front page is covered in flash videos

You mean like the "[url=http://]Midweek Mini Movies[/url]" on the front page at the mo ferinstance? Yep, they're all YouTube and Vimeo videos. They get served as HTML5 and play just dandy on the iPhone. Ta.

the BBC and most big content providers websites have loads of flash content.

The BBC have an excellent app and the videos play fine in that. They can also be played just fine in Skyfire.

Most other "big content providers" stream video via YouTube which already does HTML5.

In what way is HTML5 in any way better?!

You don't need to install or update an extra browser plug-in from a third-party monopoly just to watch a video. A plug-in which has known stability and security issues and which even has its own tracking cookies which aren't cleared by your browser or controlled by your browsers privacy settings.

Also when you watch video with Flash you have to download the video AND the video player every time. That's kinda dumb. I don't expect a DVD rental place to give me a DVD player with the DVD. Especially if I'm paying for the postage!

And you have to use that player which the website supplies - even if you'd rather play the video somewhere else on a better player.

Remind us again of what that volume is, when compared to the volume of interweb traffic that is from other devices.

[url= http://www.tecmark.co.uk/uk-mobile-stats-2011 ]75% of UK mobile web traffic is from iOS devices[/url].
And I'd speculate that a pretty significant part of the other 25% will be from other mobile devices that do not have Flash installed or enabled.

...and from non-mobile devices? without looking it up I seem to remember it's about 90 odd percent in the UK.

And globally about 99% non-mobile access. - all using Flash capable systems to view websites.

Yup. 12.59% of all UK traffic is mobile and growing very rapidly.

[img] [/img]

And not forgetting that many visitors using PCs etc may have Flash turned off or blocked for security / performance reasons (as I do)

Basically if your site requires Flash then you are excluding at least 1 in 10 visitors in the UK. And rising.

Apple dont support flash on igadgets to protect their revenue from the itunes store; games, music, tv and apps.

[quote=GrahamS]And not forgetting that many visitors using PCs etc may have Flash turned off or blocked for security / performance reasons (as I do)

Most users probably don't know what Flash is, let alone how to turn it off.

Apple dont support flash on igadgets to protect their revenue from the itunes store; games, music, tv and apps.

Mmmm.. there may be an aspect of this, but I think it is more about keeping to their [i]"closed system that just works"[/i] principle, which is one of the main reasons people like (and hate) Apple.

Games and apps don't actually generate them much revenue - [url= http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-20008540-37.html ][i]only[/i] $189 million out of their $33.7 billion gross profit[/url]. There are plenty of free apps on there too (I rarely pay for apps).

music - not sure how Flash would affect that. There are plenty of Spotify and internet radio apps in the App Store for free.

Likewise TV: TVCatchup, iPlayer, ITV Player, 4OD all work just fine and most have dedicated free apps.

Most users probably don't know what Flash is, let alone how to turn it off.

So likewise they would be unlikely to install it or keep it up-to-date and secure if it was pre-installed by a friend.

I realise, by the way, that all this counter-argument makes me sound like a raving Apple fanboi ([i]*waves to CountZero*[/i]) but I'm really not.

I'm just trying to explain why, as an actual user, the lack of Flash doesn't personally bother me. Obviously others may differ. That's fair enough. They should probably buy something else.

So...no flash on the 5 then?

I'm just trying to explain why, as an actual user, the lack of Flash doesn't personally bother me. Obviously others may differ. That's fair enough. They should probably buy something else.

Fair enough. Not out to score points in a pointless argument.
Lack of Flash bothers me enough for it to be irritating at times.

I envy you. I'm obviously more easily irritated and will therefore be (even more) unbearable as I get older!

I don't wanna buy anything else cos I love my iPad.
I just wish it had....etc.

I've got Flash on my iPhone

[img] [/img]

Flash will be dead on the web in the next year anyway. HTML5 will see to that.

GrahamS - Member
Yup. 12.59% of all UK traffic is mobile and growing very rapidly.

Basically if your site requires Flash then you are excluding at least 1 in 10 visitors in the UK. And rising.

Except that 56% of smartphones can use flash (ok this is in the US, but I doubt it's much different here):
http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/26/android-powered-56-percent-of-smartphones-sold-in-the-last-3-mon/

100!

Except that 56% of smartphones can use flash (ok this is in the US, but I doubt it's much different here)

Maybe so - but as I said, 75% of UK mobile traffic is from iOS devices.
So I guess those 'droid users just don't actually go online much?

Plus many/most droid users will surf with flash deactivated anyway (either because they don't know how to activate or they don't want to because its a PITA).

Either way. It will change everything. Again.

Either way. It will change everything. Again. Again. Again. Again. Again.

Surely?

Well that was a quick change of events. There was me espousing the virtues of iOS and steadfastly waiting for the new iPhone. Looked at the figures, and the absolute nonchanceity of any deals on the new iPhone and the prospect of being tied in for two years and still having to pay a couple of ton up front...

So just bought another Galaxy S2, pretty good deal on a decent phone. I guess I'll see what the iPhone 6 will be like....

If iphone 5 had brilliant signal, then that might change my mind but today driving, ip4 has been pretty good (VOIP data) calls are fine btw.

I'll wait for any teething problems to be solved first.

IOS on iphone/apple products has been great, support and customer service. Thats why I wouldn't buy a samsung even though they are very similar techy wise.

Going back to Flash on mobile devices, the one real problem with it is it's designed mainly for use with a mouse, in order to access content you have to 'mouse hover', and that don't work on any touch screen. On my new computer, I do not have Flash installed, and will not. If I need to access content that uses Flash, like iPlayer, then I use Chrome, which decodes natively. Otherwise I refuse to have it on any machine I use; repeated reports of security issues where holes are exploited in Flash and Reader make me very concerned. If feefoo wants to spend time putting loads of security on his machine to avoid issues that's his problem.

It's just nice being able to see sites as they were designed.

I can see why some sites use flash for some things, like properly interactive content, games and stuff like that. But why oh why oh why oh why do sites continue to use it for dumb stuff like video? Can only assume the beeb and youtube have done some deal with Adobe or have some massive investment in flash encoders. Can't be that difficult to update though, for new content, can it? Wasn't that bothered on the iPhone, but on the iPad it's a real pain in the bum.

YouTube serves up videos in HTML5 if you go to it from a mobile device.
Has done for a long time.

Only a portion of youtube videos don't need flash. I'd say roughly a quarter of the stuff I try and view requires flash (just check out any of the music video related threads on here.)

If feefoo wants to spend time putting loads of security on his machine to avoid issues that's his problem.

Laughable.

Never had one security breach that caused me a problem... how long has Flash been around? I don't know.
I have standard internet security, same as everyone else.

If the problem was as bad as you suggest I reckon Flash would have been ditched YEARS ago.

Weird Flash aversion bordering on paranoia.

If the problem was as bad as you suggest I reckon Flash would have been ditched YEARS ago.

Sadly when they try people whine about it 😀
I take it you've notice that Microsoft has also ditched Flash in Windows 8?

Weird Flash aversion bordering on paranoia.

It's not paranoia when the internet is really out to get you.
Adobe are constantly releasing critical security patches for Flash because it is so full of holes.

"Among the vulnerabilities discovered in 2009, a vulnerability affecting both Adobe Reader and Flash Player was the second most attacked vulnerability. This was also one of four zero-day vulnerabilities affecting Adobe plug-ins during 2009. Two of the vulnerabilities were in the top five attacked vulnerabilities for 2009. Additionally, Adobe vulnerabilities have been associated with malicious code attacks such as the Pidief.E Trojan." (Symantec)
-- http://www.zdnet.com/blog/bott/how-secure-is-flash-heres-what-adobe-wont-tell-you/2152

Let's be clear:

Flash is still the most popular format.

Flash has [b]NEVER[/b] caused me any problems.

Flash is not supported on the device I otherwise love.

Being able to view whatever I want, however I want, is something I've been used to over the decades of internet use.
I'm therefore irritated by being hindered in my enjoyment.

If you are not irritated then fair enough.

Apparently the iPhone 5 is not out till next year and the next iPhone to be released is the iPhone 4s !!

Apparently?

Stop the presses!