Intervertebral Disc Disease in dogs

Might help with age of dog, usual activity, cost/insurance. Quality of life for the animal.

Not being funny, but I've badly fractured my spine and it was not fun understanding the don't move for months. What does the vet say about restricted movement ? 

I've grown up with dogs as a kid, and as an adult on cats - 8 total, four still with us. 

She's 12.5 years old but no one believes she's that old. Really active and still normally full of bounce.

Surgery means 4 weeks of no steps, no climbing in the sofa, limited walks etc.

The non surgical method is 8 weeks of that. 

Were already planning on taking shifts sleeping downstairs with her.

Surgery is 4 figures, about half of which might be covered by insurance. Right now, we're looking at best medical outcomes and not discussing the costs  If the expensive option gives her the best quality of life and the most permanent repair getting her back to normal, then we'll do that. Similarly, if the 8 weeks plug of close monitoring and limiting her gets the best outcome, we'll put the work in.

Many years ago one of dogs as it turns out had damaged his spine/‘slipped a disc’ probably due to over-exuberant play - it took ages to get a proper diagnosis as MRI wasn’t available. We did the rest/anti-inflammatories and whilst the vet offered traditional surgery but the potential side effects (paralysis / incontinence) weren’t attractive - plus specialists like the Supervet didn’t exist. In the end we went with acupuncture and a chiropractor and whilst he only recover to about 95% mobility, he lived another 9 years until he was 13 years old. 

I think we only have a mild case here, despite it looking pretty dramatic on the MRI as she's pretty much normal (but dogs are very stoic). She's slow to correct if you turn her back toes under and she's not lifting her rear legs enough when walking as you can hear her nails on the tarmac occasionally, not enough to show damage on the nails though.

I don't mean to scare you, but this is my story...

I put mine under the knife when he was 3 years old, the small animal hospital in Liverpool massivley messed the job up and we had to get it done again at a place in wakefield, as we had no trust left in liverpool, where they removed some bone debris that liverpool left in the spinal column and re-did the job properly.

£14,000 and 6 years later he's going strong... albiet slightly wonky and we have to limit his excersise and keep his weight down to avoid too much stress on the spine.

Rough and tumble play is way out of the question, but he's a happy dog and has regained about 90% mobility in his back legs, he'll still jump around like a nutter given half the chance.

If our second shot didn't work it would have had to have been lethal injection time.

We tried to sue the small animal hospital, but the vet who eventually fixed him wouldn't put it in writing that liverpool were clinically negligent, and without that expert opinion in writing, we had no case.

Then:  

Now:

He really is a miracle dog, and happy now, no thanks to the charletans at liverpool small animal hostital.

His health insurance costs are now about on par with my house and car insurance combined lol..

I have a 9 year old French bulldog that we rescued from a breed farm. About 6 months ago she got IVDD. Took her to the vet as she was clearly in a lot of pain. Vet said we could go the surgery route or try rest. He didn't recommend surgery for frenchies as the success rate is low. His words. 

So 6 weeks of enforced cage rest and doses of gabapentin and lexicon. She is about 98% now. Happy and moving well. It was hard though when you are sitting on the floor with her and she is crying out and you can't pick her up because that will hurt more. 🙁 I really didn't think that rest would do it though. The gabapentin really knocks them out though and you need to be prepared for that. 

 She jumps up on the furniture when we aren't looking, now but we are more careful with what she can and can't do. We don't have insurance as insuring a 9 year old Frenchie with no history was very expensive. So thankful that we didn't have to go the surgery route.

Thanks both. That's a real horror story mattyfez. Glad to hear he  was okay in the end 

I think we are currently considering the rest method over surgery.

I'm guessing she has been to see a specialist already by the fact she has had an MRI already. Have you chatted with the specialist surgeon regarding the options? If not then definitely worth going over them with the specialist. A consultation doesn't always mean you have to go for surgery. Breed does matter a bit as some have a worse prognosis than others (see above re Frenchies) but surgical outcomes can be very good. 

In my experience dog's that are still as mobile as you describe are often managed medically (getting the right mix of analgesia often means more than just 1 drug) with pretty strict rest. Lots do well and by choosing rest initially you don't rule out the possibility of surgery if she gets worse or doesn't improve. Give your vet a call or book an appointment. Most people have further questions after the initial diagnosis is made and need time to make a decision. 

Fingers crossed.

We did discuss with the vet. Options were surgery, epidural or rest with varying cost, invasiveness etc. we were thinking to get her the surgery because it sounded like the best and most permanent fix.

However, as we've come away and started reading more around the subject, we've realised that while the disc problem looked really bad in the imagining, she seems to be a fairly low level case as she will still climb stairs and run around (although we now know she shouldn't). Perhaps we misinterpreted but it felt like rest and medication was an option chosen by those not insured. It wasn't really presented as a viable medical resolution, more symptoms management. However, since we've come away, it sounds like than can be effective, and without the risk of fecal and urinary incontinence.

She's a 12.5 year old 26kg bull lurcher. Greyhound staffie

My older dog is 11.5, springer spaniel. Still looks fit and is active but a shadow of what he was in his prime. We can still take him on longer walks but he can get quite stiff the next day. Had a bad leg injury a couple of years ago and surgery was an option, we decided to use rest and limit vigorous activities. He has recovered well. I know it will be his back legs going that gets him in the end and we will be devastated. But going on 12 isn't bad for a spaniel and I would be extremely cautious about putting him through major surgery now.

12.5 is already quite a good age for large dog. How long are you realistically expecting her to live? Sorry to be blunt but I'm not convinced on the merits of surgery for a dog of that age.

FWIW OP, two things come to mind. First is as Robola says, at that age I would definitely shy away from major surgery for a pet of mine. Quality of life is important, but that cuts both ways - both if you go surgery route, and if you do a non-surgical option. 

Second is while it's not the same, I had a similar consultation on surgery for a herniated disc myself, with a surgeon who was pretty keen on it. Looking at the scans I noticed a lot of really important nerves round that area, and asked what happens if... The answer wasn't wholly reassuring, and it was enough to put me off surgery for myself, and focus on physio etc instead. 

So for me, if I wouldn't go through the surgery myself, I couldn't see myself putting an older pet through it. But that's just me, and I'm a wuss! 

She is 12.5 but I expect her to live forever. No one believes her age, even the vets. She's a very young dog for her age. The last few dogs has passed it we're getting infirmary by this point. This one still thinks she's a puppy 

You love to see it! 

I don't know about dogs, but in human there is a very low correlation between MRI findings and the clinical picture. IE people can have normal MRIs and terrible symptoms and vice versa.

Also in human beings, unless there are clear clinical signs of cord compression, most spinal surgeons would reserve surgery for cases when non-invasive management has failed.

Got a Bernese mountain dog that is 8 years old. Her back legs are starting to go a bit funny and she has some spinal damage and bulging discs.

When she was much younger - about 3, she had an uncanny ability to scale our 8 feet wall - that has a 10 foot drop on the other side. We suspect she'd done some damage then and it is compounding something else.

MRI scans show a decidedly misshapen spine, but also appears to be something else helping this. Not clear what it is so surgery isn't straightforward or clear.

She isn't showing any interest in going upstairs now but she appears to be a model example of a dog when she is running. Walking and getting up and she appears to be decrepit as the back legs either don't get lifted or wobble sideways - but she is keen on moving.

She seems keen on continuing doing what she does, however, this does appear to not be improving so I suspect this is not going to end well - sooner than hoped.

She is a big dog (46kg) and does like to move, so any surgery and recovery is going to really hamper her and it may not help much...

Hopefully your dog can make a strong recovery with whatever solution you go for.

My previous dog died at 7, so not just a dog young for her age - a young dog. The decline was unexpected and rapid, fit healthy dog, 2 days later gone. Unfortunately current condition not a reliable indicator of longevity. 

We have a 5 year old Frenchie that had a case of this a couple of years ago.

Frenchies are meant to be quite prone to it.

He isn't insured and has 2 heart defects, so any general anaesthetic is going to be like flipping a coin whether he'll wake up (Vets words).

IDD was diagnosed without an MRI, and we opted for the crate rest and medication, it was in fairness our only real option.

It was awful, even with the pain relief and anti-inflammatory, his cries were heart-wrenching, BUT it worked.

I'd like to say that we limit what he does so that we avoid it ever happening again, but he's an idiot and he's already outlived 2 different vets life expectancies, so we let him get away with jumping on the sofas and rough play with his sister.

Posted by: monkeyfiend

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It was awful, even with the pain relief and anti-inflammatory, his cries were heart-wrenching, BUT it worked.

I'd like to say that we limit what he does so that we avoid it ever happening again, but he's an idiot and he's already outlived 2 different vets life expectancies, so we let him get away with jumping on the sofas and rough play with his sister.

This is exactly how we feel with our Frenchie. The cries were devastating even on the medication. We try to limit her now,  but she's a Frenchie and they have a way of doing their own thing regardless.

Yours sounds like it's not as bad as ours was so rest will probably help. I would try it before surgery on an older dog no matter how young they think they are. 🙂

Posted by: bruk

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I'm guessing she has been to see a specialist already by the fact she has had an MRI already. Have you chatted with the specialist surgeon regarding the options? If not then definitely worth going over them with the specialist. A consultation doesn't always mean you have to go for surgery. Breed does matter a bit as some have a worse prognosis than others (see above re Frenchies) but surgical outcomes can be very good. 

In my experience dog's that are still as mobile as you describe are often managed medically (getting the right mix of analgesia often means more than just 1 drug) with pretty strict rest. Lots do well and by choosing rest initially you don't rule out the possibility of surgery if she gets worse or doesn't improve. Give your vet a call or book an appointment. Most people have further questions after the initial diagnosis is made and need time to make a decision. 

 

Fingers crossed.

 

@bruk we haven't seen a pupdate on the dog thread recently how is she?

@joshvegas. 

Kiwi has grown into a proper terrier! Makes the lab’s life a misery but he still loves her. I’ll post an update on the dog thread with pictures. 

@onzadog. Good to hear you have had a chat. If you have more questions do go back to them and ask. Sometimes it takes time to get the right painkillers sorted and Bull Lurchers can be at both ends of the spectrum re how they show pain (even within the same dog!) 

So true. So stoic while he was manipulating the back end where the problem is. Greyhound death screams when he lifted her front paw.