Ok,
So my mint condition V6 Bongo has been in the garage for the last few months having it's head gaskets and heads redone. Taken so long because the garage is a one man band, but with a very good reputation and parts had to be sourced from Japan.
Anyway last weekend the building next to the garage caught fire and severely damaged the roof of the building. It was caused by a generator catching fire in an adjacent yard. The slates from this building fell on to my van which was parked in the garage compound. Initial looks at it by me show damage to every panel and the roof including where the windscreen (smashed) joins. Looks like a write off. Plus other bodywork damage and possibly the alloys.
I've called my insurance who say a) that it will have to come off MY insurance as they need to be able to prove negligence off the motor mechanic (in another yard) who started the fire working on his camper van.
The garage where my van was parked say its not covered under their insurance as their insurance only covers vehicles being driven by him, or in his actual workshop. The yard is a rented yard that he uses.
The Farm building that caught fire is only covered by buildings insurance, not liability. I have the motor mechanic (started the fire)insurance details which are Trade Ex.
Now the issue. My van was only insured for £3k as it was off the road and a non-runner. The garage have actually all but finished the works and say that I'm liable for the bill for the heads etc. My insurance company will only offer me £3k less excess as they say they don't believe they can claim from the firestarter and I will loose my No Claims.
How can this be fair? Especially as the bill for the heads will be over £1.5k
Can I approach Trade Ex directly and state that I wish to file a claim against them. The point being, my van was off the road, and technically didn't need to be insured at all and my Insurance company are being less than helpful?
Or do I approach a No-Win no Fee company?
Anyone help? I don't see how/why I should be out of pocket for something that was not my fault?
The garage (doing the work on my van) are 100% sure that they are not liable. Even their loss adjuster who took pictures of my van and another damaged, and the minor damage to the workshop say they are not liable.
I acknowledge that part of the issue is MY valuation of the van as a non-runner, but surely if I was to claim off the Trade-ex policy then the valuation will be done by someone else and based on its condition when finished, or if MY insurance company deal with Trade-ex will they be able to pay more than the valuation on my policy?
Anyone? Thanks in advance.
D
There's too much going on here for you to sort on your own, at least within a reasonable timeframe and with no detriment to your mental health.
No-win-no-fee would be my choice, despite the general perception of them being somewhere between private parking attendants and estate agents. There is a place for them in the market and this seems, at first glance, to be exactly the kind of situation they're in business for.
As Mr Ox says, it may be easier to go though a no win no fee firm.
The mechanic may be correct, if he only has a road risk trade policy, cover at premises is often excluded unless they have a combined policy. So going after him may be a slow process.
Your vehicle was damaged by roof tiles so your best bet would be to pursue the buildings insurer as it's highly likely the buildings insurance will include public liability. Although you've insured the vehicle for £3,000, you can claim the market value from the buildings insurer (or at least try to).
Thanks.
So just for clarity, I can approach the Trade Ex (fire starter) policy direct?
But would also be good to get the fire damaged barn owner's insurance details?
And go through my own insurance and insist they try and claim back?
My liability knowledge is a bit lacking, but you might be looking at a claim under bailment (if your garage were negligent in some way - like did they fail to remove the vehicle from danger etc); or under contract (depends what the contract between you and them says).
Trouble is, without knowing more details about exactly what happened then it's going to be hard to figure out a route.
Either way, I wouldn't necessarily be listening to the garage or their Loss Adjuster (who works for/is paid by their insurance company) - do you pay attention to the "We accept no liability..." signs in Tesco? ;o)
Also - your claim is a legal claim against the people causing the damage rather than their insurer. The fact that they hold insurance is immaterial - it just means your claim stands a better chance of being paid if your legal case is successful. Your claim appears to be against the mechanic causing the fire, but there are a stack of variables here you need to get more advice on.
Go see a solicitor.
The garage (doing the work on my van) are 100% sure that they are not liable. Even their loss adjuster who took pictures of my van and another damaged, and the minor damage to the workshop say they are not liable.
How are they not liable? The vehicle is in their care, isn't it? Just because they haven't insured that particular risk I don't see how they can not be liable for it?
Unless they expressly told you that they weren't liable for any damage to the van whilst in their care (especially if it was a few months waiting for parts etc where it was more storage) before you left it with them I'd have a polite word pointing that fact out and tell them they need to sort it themselves. Take some legal advice before hand. I'd assume it would be a civil matter if the insurance don't want to be infolved though so getting the money back could well be a lot more hassle than it's worth. If you're only a couple of grand out of pocket it probably wouldn't be worth going down that route.
I wouldn't approach the other company, I'd let the garage sort it.
Just to add a bit more info.
The garage did actually post on their page earlier in the year that they are not liable for any damage whilst any vehicle was in the yard due to the fact that it was leased.
Also the garage were actually closed when the fire broke out so couldn't have moved it away. They even said that they would have moved it if they had been there.
I'll go back to my insurance company again once I have got the farm building owners insurance details as he happens also to be the landlord of the yard where the van was kept, and the landlord of the person who caused the fire. I think this is my best hope to get my insurance to claim against them (as it was their slates), and they can then claim against the motor mechanic who started it.
Full appreciate that it was in the "garage care" which is my main gripe, but their insurance does specifically state the workshop and whilst driving. Also as they were not around I cant see how they can be "negligent or at fault" which I'm guessing is what I'd have to prove...
If I go through insurance (and it all comes from my claim), they'd pay me £2.5K but premiums would be up for at least 5 years plus the No Claims..I'd still be a van down.
🙁
You might get some mileage out of the Financial Ombudsman. There is a bit in their friendliness specifically relating to value of vehicles being actual market value. If you can get the garage to vouch for the work they've done and therefore the market value of your Bongo, you might end up with more than £3k minus excess. It's worth a shot. The Ombudsman have sorted out two crappy insurance companies in my favour in the last 18 months.
The garage did actually post on their page earlier in the year that they are not liable for any damage whilst any vehicle was in the yard due to the fact that it was leased.
The leasing bit is irrelevant. Plenty of businesses will lease the premises they operate from. That doesn't magically exclde them from being liable for any losses that occur on their premises.
I'm no expert on property insurance but from what I know of car insurance, let's say three cars are involved in a rear end collision
Car A runs into the back of Car B, which in turn runs into the back of Car C. Although the entire incident was caused by Car A, it would work as follows
Car C claims against Car B's insurance
Car B claims against Car A's insurance
(The insurers of cars B & C may look to subrogate against Car A's insurer but we'll ingore that)
So in your situation a fire in property A has caused damage to property B which has in turn caused damage to your car. I'd be going after the public liability insurer of property B. They must have public liability insurance in place and it sounds as they don't know what they're talking about
dabaldie - ignore EVERYTHING you've been told by anyone in the chain of events (and some of the advice on here - well meant I'm sure but 100% wrong).
You need to speak to a solicitor OR any legal helpline connected to your car OR a legal helpline connected to your household insurance, if you have them and if they can help.
To re-iterate; insurance has nothing to do with what has happened to you - you should be seeking some recompense either from the garage doing some work on your car or from the dude who started the fire. It's nothing to do with any disclaimers/hasn't got the right cover/whatever.
Get some proper help from someone who can guide you through the situation, not on here.
Got to echo the above, it doesn't matter who has what cover...if they chose not to fully insure themselves against liability to neighbours/customers, thats their loss. Literally.
If my car is SORN'd and uninsured but rolls off my considerably steep driveway and through someones garden wall, I'd consider myself liable even though I don't have insurance against that possibility.
You may even be able to claim for the cost of the work by the garage, you owe money for something that has been written off.
I wouldn't necessarily go 'no win no fee', if its a bit touch and go they'll probably string you along for a bit and then drop it. Might be better to pay someone to take an initial look into the situation and advise the course of action.
The garage (doing the work on my van) are 100% sure that they are not liable. Even their loss adjuster who took pictures of my van and another damaged, and the minor damage to the workshop say they are not liable.
The garage and the loss adjuster are 100% sure they aren't insured to cover the losses.
That's not the same as not being [b]liable [/b]for the losses.
Leased property or owned is totally irrelevant. Ignore that bit.
And as above, Get some proper legal advice.
If my car is SORN'd and uninsured but rolls off my considerably steep driveway and through someones garden wall, I'd consider myself liable even though I don't have insurance against that possibility.
You probably would be, because it is fairly easy to claim a car rolling down a hill is caused by negligence. However if you parked your car on your own property next to your neighbour's wooden garage and it catches fire then unless someone can show you have been negligent in some way the fact the fire spreads to the neighbouring property is not your liability. Recent case law - Stannard (t/a Wyvern Tyres) v Gore [2012] EWCA Civ 1248 - develops the long held principles in Rylands v Fletcher. You need expert advice looking at the specifics but my understanding is you'd have to show that the original fire was caused negligently. Even if you do that, if the guy who caused it has no money a claim will essentially be pointless.
The lesson here is if YOU want to be sure YOU are covered for loss to YOUR property then YOU need to insure it not hope that others have done so or will be liable.
As an aside, is the damage so bad that the van is actually unusable or is it essentially cosmetic?
I'll get all the parties insurance details on Monday and go back to my insurer and see what they then say. All I know at the moment is the "firestarters" insurance details and that the barn and the garage were insured through NIG. I tend to agree with BoardinBob on the principles.
We believe the fire was started in a campervan due to him running a generator! Don't know why. The original report was he was welding, but not sure.
As for the damage to the van, there is a large dent at the join of the roof and the windscreen which I have been told is usually fatal plus a few holes punched through the roof (double skinned).
Any ideas where to start with legal types? Google is a bit too broadbrush. I've emailed a few via their "contact us" pages but now I'm getting plenty of suggestions when I use facebook! Maybe Cookies aren't such a bad thing!
Did you pay for legal cover with your insurance ?
If you did, start there.