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For anyone who gets a parking ticket from a supermarket, service station, private car park or on private land please be aware of the following:
If it's not issued by the Council then YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY !
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What's more there's nothing at all the private company can do about it apart from send you ever more threatening letters in red ink or perhaps a nasty phone call to try and scare you into paying.
Let's fight back against these Parking Parasites who try to make a living by bullying the old and the vulnerable of society into paying extortionate parking charges that are totally unreasonable yet completely unenforceable.
The more people that are aware of this the better - hopefully it will gradually put an end to these Highwaymen.
Or, people could start thinking about where they park instead of abandoning vehicles left right and centre and assuming they have "the right". What if I dump my car on your drive over night because it works for me?
Yes there are some bandit companies out there but how is a supermarket car park supposed to keep the car park clear for real customers if a bunch of lazy commuters park there all day every day?
I was given one in June up in that there Scotland (I don't think anyone is mean enough to issue them down here) not even been sent a single letter.
About £18k in private parking tickets sitting in a bin bag in the loft. Never paid a penny.
(long running dispute with property factors/ private parking company and they're ticketing my car on land I own, without permission)
Yes my missus had one of these from a shopping car park after 2 hours
checked it out on the web, we had a few debt collectors letters as expected but the key is NOT to reply to any of them and they disappear.
They dress it up like a fine but only the council can fine you these are just invoices
older friends of mine did pay up
****ers
Yeti
mine was in the south - Woking to be precise
How about a service station on the m6 for parking in a disabled bay???
yeh, wot onzadog said
"you can" is not always the same as "you should"
What if I dump my car on your drive over night because it works for me?
Then I would call the police wouldn't I to get it shifted. Or if the police were not interested I'd give it a nudge off the drive with my Landrover.
I wouldn't slap a ticket (sorry, invoice) on it and then expect you to pay some extortionate and completely made up amount.
As above...they are just invoices, nothing else. A parking company cannot 'fine' you, no matter how they dress it up, and how do they think they can charge you for parking on a free car park ??
xcgb - how on earth is that helping me to negatively stereotype the people of Scotland?
They can however put a wheel clamp on. It is also illegal to remove the clamp. Unfortunately they then have you by the balls!
Yeti
Sorry yes it must have been a scottish company now i come to think of it!
What if I dump my car on your drive over night because it works for me?
Then I would call the police wouldn't I to get it shifted. Or if the police were not interested I'd give it a nudge off the drive with my Landrover.I wouldn't slap a ticket (sorry, invoice) on it and then expect you to pay some extortionate and completely made up amount.
And its extortion in my view
And funnily enough, that was banned in Scotland in 1992 as it was deemed to be extortion.Frodo - Member
They can however put a wheel clamp on.
They can however put a wheel clamp on. It is also illegal to remove the clamp. Unfortunately they then have you by the balls!
It might be an offence if they can prove it was you who damaged the clamp. However some action with an angle grinder and then the clamp dumped in the nearest canal/skip etc. How would they prove it was you who removed it? I'm talking proof beyond reasonable doubt - not just suspicion!
So it's ok park wherever the hell you like, those nasty nasty people can't get you for it anymore.
well done.
So it's ok park wherever the hell you like, those nasty nasty people can't get you for it anymore.
Exactly, and very soon wheel clamping (sorry extortion) will be illegal in England and Wales.
[url= http://www.****/news/article-1355005/Wheel-clamping-private-land-criminal-offence.html ]Don't read the Daily Mail However[/url]
So it's ok park wherever the hell you like, those nasty nasty people can't get you for it anymore.
well done.
Of course not, there's plenty of places where you can get done, but there are appeals processes that you can go through and get them overturned. I have and I did.
On the other hand people have gone to places for some shopping with the kids, spent money, gone to the café/restaurant for a meal, spent more money, then gone back to the car to find they've received a ticket for overstaying some allotted period of time. I'm bu99ered if, having spent a considerable amount of money in an establishment I'd roll over for extortion by some private company on their behalf.
It might be an offence if they can prove it was you who damaged the clamp. However some action with an angle grinder and then the clamp dumped in the nearest canal/skip etc. How would they prove it was you who removed it? I'm talking proof beyond reasonable doubt - not just suspicion
CCTV? I wouldn't suggest you should change career to master criminal. 🙂
That's also why our residents car park outside our home is full up with ***** who don't want to park legally.
Perhaps now people can park in private car parks without fear of a fine I'll need to employ a policy of headlight smashing and brake fluid pouring.
If it's not issued by the Council then YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY !
Unless it's issued by the Police, or Transport for London.
CCTV? I wouldn't suggest you should change career to master criminal
Yes because there's CCTV on every corner isn't there - silly me.
I'd like to see if it's worth the clampers taking you to court for the damage of a £10 padlock. Do you think it's worth their time and effort especially with their glowing reputation for being 'whiter than white'? Quite honestly I suspect the police or courts wouldn't be remotely interested.
Please grow some balls and then learn how to use them 😆 . . . . you don't have to bend over and get shafted by these crooks.
Is the OP right?
I thought recent case-law allowed land-owners to charge for parking? Seems fair enough to me.
That's also why our residents car park outside our home is full up with ****ts who don't want to park legally
Why not install some sort of barrier or remote gate? There's always a solution that does not involve clamping or ticketing.
I thought recent case-law allowed land-owners to charge for parking? Seems fair enough to me.
Yes in a private car park with barriers of course it's legal. But an £80-£120 charge for overstaying in your supermarket car park be 10mins followed on by nasty and threatening letters and phone calls if you fail to pay up. Does that seem fair to you?
That's also why our residents car park outside our home is full up with ****ts who don't want to park legally.Perhaps now people can park in private car parks without fear of a fine I'll need to employ a policy of headlight smashing and brake fluid pouring.
We have had the same problem with a city centre works car park despite it saying it's a private car park with enforcement notices all over the place. Can't vandalise the car but we do find some creative ways to block the car in delaying the illegal parker for hours and one awkward sod overnight. We have had the police called and they usually just leave it they shouldn't have parked there. This usually stops the illegal parkers from coming back.
We have gates but once found someone had rammed the gates to get their car out not only damaging the gate but also other peoples cars.
Problem with PPCs is that they're all ****s. I'd have no problem with ticketing cars parked on peoples land if it was done in a proper, regulated way, but its not. They do what they please. They can charge whatever they want, set the terms at whatever they want. There is no real appeal process, as the people who review the appeal are the same people who get the money.
And the tactics they use to scare you into giving them money are disgusting, I had one shout down the phone at me, telling me there was no point running away, I'd parked illegally and they were coming round to my house in the next few days.
Yes in a private car park with barriers of course it's legal. But an £80-£120 charge for overstaying in your supermarket car park be 10mins followed on by nasty and threatening letters and phone calls if you fail to pay up. Does that seem fair to you?
Ah so your OP is wrong?
Of course your extreme example is unfair - and would not be allowed. My point is that the answer is as ever not simple enough for one sentence, EVEN IF IT'S IN CAP LOCKS.
Only had it once, parked in an Aldi car park which was the only nearby option so had 1.5hours. Was in an interbiew that was 2 hours long and I ended up paying.
quote]They can however put a wheel clamp on. It is also illegal to remove the clamp. Unfortunately they then have you by the balls!
not true if its a private clamp. There is an arguement that a private company clamping you is actually a trespass against property or something like that
If you can get the wheel and track rods off then you can get the clamp off
[url= http://www.pepipoo.com/ ]Compulsive reading[/url]
Ah so your OP is wrong?
No it's not wrong, and yes examples like mine do happen. I could show you the nasty letters if I hadn't have binned them.
What the law does no allow is for a private company to 'fine' you for parking on private land. There is a difference - please pay attention next time!
I agree with the sentiments above- if you're spending money then by and large you should be allowed to park for free. To reinforce the point I normally park in the parent and child spaces. They're normally a bit further from the entrance to the supermarket than disabled spaces, but there are fewer of them, so you're more likely to irritate people and/or get a ticket if you've no children with you- if there's no spaces there then I'll put up with a disabled space.
According to moneysaving expert, private companies are allowed to issue these tickets, but they are issued against the individual driving, not the vehicle's owner, and you are under no obligation to reveal who was driving, so are essentially unenforceable.
Only had it once, parked in an Aldi car park which was the only nearby option so had 1.5hours. Was in an interbiew that was 2 hours long and I ended up paying.
I know that the horse has long since bolted so to speak, but you shouldn't have paid them. There's not a thing they could do about it.
( Speaking from first hand experience btw ).
So the lad who I was with who parked in the disabled bay needn't have paid? He genuinely did it (and there were loads of disabled spots at the time) so we could keep an eye on the bikes on the back whilst we had a quick bite in the services.
OP are you on about the difference between a charge and a fine?
Or are you saying it's only lawful on private land if there are barriers?
"They can however put a wheel clamp on. It is also illegal to remove the clamp. Unfortunately they then have you by the balls!"
Illegal to clamp on private land in Scotland already and there's a bill going through at the moment that has already been passed by Parliament in february that will make it illegal to clamp a vehicle on private land. That law should come into force by the end of the year according to best estimates..
I know this because....
[url= http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/burnleypendlerossendale/8931576.Colne_man_s_anger_at_being_clamped_outside_home/ ]This was me..[/url]
And I got a full refund.
[url= http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/media-centre/news/new-wheel-clamping-ban ]Home Office PR[/url]
I got one about two years ago for parking for 5 minutes on a piece of private land: Reason I was helping stop a fight in the shop owners premises. What actually annoyed me most was the fact that despite the fact their own trade organsiation prohibits them doing it, they clearly tried to pass the ticket off as a pucker parking ticket. It is not, its an invoice. From that point forth I've had no sympathy whatsoever and will not pay it under any circumstances. They still phone me and threaten me with a pox on my house and all sorts of dire retribution, presuambly when its a quiet day in the office, but nothing more has ever come of it. I am mulling over an action for harassment, but not sure if the fun of doing that is worth the hastle.
Firmly in the scum of the earth don't give in to them camp.
It is also illegal to remove the clamp
Err...no it isn't.
It may be a CIVIL matter if the clamp is damaged whilst removing it, but it can be removed by other means, i.e. dismantling your car suspension to remove it.
If I were clamped for something I considered unfair by a private company I'd angle grind the clamp off and take it to the nearest skip. Let them prove there was a clamp on there - photos are easily photoshopped and who's to say they didn't just rest the clamp on and then remove it and claim you damaged it?
Slightly OT but should make folk smile in a rueful FFS way.
Friend of mine was out for an Friday evening meal earlier in the year and parked up on a High St parking bay.
A completely plissed up driver smashed in to the back of his car, trashing the rear and forcing the car in to the one parked in front.
Cue a lot of agro with the authorities (Police included)and the car being left in situ over the weekend. When he went back to meet the recovery truck on the Monday, some dozy twunt council traffic womble had ticketed the car.
Possibly understandable you might say, but for the fact that the car [u]only had three wheels on it[/u],had heavily damaged front and rear bumpers [b]and[/b] had two very conspicuous 'Police Aware' stickers front and rear. 🙄
You do have to wonder at the intelligence of some 'officials'...........
To be fair mark is driving a vauxhall, that is worth a clamping IMHO
Probably missed something here about the distinction between reputable businesses with paying car parks and 'hired in' parking enforcers or clampers.
Most but not all of our city centre car parks are city council run, but what about NCP etc car parks? Or airport ones? Hospitals? Are those ones 'private' parking tickets too?
i dont have a car...
On the subject of criminal charges arising from criminal damage of property (deliberately breaking and damaging a clamp),CCTV footage can only be used a corroborative evidence. A person will not be convicted on CCTV evidence alone as it would not stand up and is too easily discredited.
As parking on private ground is a civil matter the land owner can only seek redress by way of compensation. Compensation is to recoup any loss and not for profit. So (in a legal sense)the land owner can only enforce (this would never happen as it is not cost effective)recouping the loss suffered which is at the most the cost of the parking fee.
Our factory is next to a BCA site and we get all sorts trying to park in our yard. Most of the time we catch them and ask politely to leave sometimes it gets a bit heated, I had one bloke tell me I was racist because I wouldn't let him park there. Since we have had signs up saying we will ticket people we have been getting less attempts. Sometimes we just lock the gates so they cant get their cars back, we have left them lock and gone home in the past.
So yes I do think there is a place for parking tickets and they do work as a deterrent, however I wouldn't pay if I got one.
Okay, the threatening letters have now started...
Who has ignored them, what situation were you in, what was the outcome?
my most recent letter came yesterday threatening court action, again. this is about my 5th letter, from overstaying in a co-op car park on holiday in cornwall.
i also got another similar one going off for not paying at newquay beach.
i havent replied to either.
the amounts now are at about £190 each!
they can take me to court, but i dont think they will, because i cant pay it!
As asked above are "other" types of car park covered under the "**** off I'm not paying rule"
Such as airports, multi stories and as I asked on the first page motorway services?? Does anyone actually know or is it more STW guess work??
This is what I want to know Wrighty...
I parked outside a friends house in a carpark not attached to their flat... plenty of spaces but got ticketd at 10 to 6 in the morning.
Unless it is from the council or police it is an invoice and they have to prove losses incurred (which is just the parking fee)
I ignored the ones from a shopping centre car park that my missus stayed for just over the 2 hour limit and it went away after 5 letters from solicitors debt collectors. I was advised to never reply as that just drags it out
Look on line lots of stuff about this
This was essentially a private car park for a block of flats... so no fee.
Yeti who is the bill from?
Some parking firm... can't remember their name. Think they're based in Birmingham.
As asked above are "other" types of car park covered under the "**** off I'm not paying rule"
It's anything on private land. The only way they can make you pay is if they can prove you were driving, so either photo or video evidence.
chancing it TSY just ignore them or put you considerable creative talents to use when replying
Yeti
I personally would just ignore it
defo ignore it.
toys - did you somehow know it was going to absolutely pish it down yesterday afternoon?
My intention always has been to ignore it, just wondering if anyone has actually done it... none of the other sites tell of the outcomes of people ignoring it though.
Did it psih down? The weather said it would, so we were all thinking we might only do the morning. but actually my mrs was ill and I was recalled to base. When did the rain start?
At about half 3-4 ish... thunder and everything...
I'm going to try and drum up support for a Triscombe day... sounds awesome 🙂
there's nothing at all the private company can do about it apart from send you ever more threatening letters in red ink or perhaps a nasty phone call to try and scare you into paying
This is, by the way, bollocks.
The piece of paper which they leave on your windscreen is not a fine. It is an invoice for liquidated damages based on your breach of the terms of the licence to enter the land which you had. It may be enforced through the courts as a civil matter (if their ducks are in a row - which they usually are). The company may get the court to compel the registered owner to identify who the driver on the occasion was. The amount recoverable is not limited merely to the unpaid parking fee. It is not extortion. And so on.
The correct position is that there is plenty the private companies can do to recover the money from you, but they usually don't bother because it's too expensive. Funnily enough, a whole multimillion pound industry is not based on an assertion with no basis in law. The true position is substantially different from what a million idiots on MSE talking about Magna Carta and the ECHR say and which gets replicated across t'internet like a million bar rooms.
This is, by the way, bollocks.
The bit of your post after that statement?
The amount recoverable is not limited merely to the unpaid parking fee.
The courts appear to judge otherwise - hence why it's not generally worth them pursuing. All they can claim are damages, which if there is a standard fee for parking usually comes down to the unpaid fee. They certainly can't charge for the costs incurred in chasing you.
Funnily enough, a whole multimillion pound industry is not based on an assertion with no basis in law.
Maybe not - but if everybody knew the law (and they all actually kept within it) it wouldn't be a multimillion pound business.
One could, of course, "know the law and keep within it" by not parking longer than you have permission for. Just a thought, like.
The courts appear to judge otherwise
They don't, you know. Liquidated damages don't have to be based on actual loss in a particular circumstance. The whole point of agreeing liquidated damages in advance of a breach of contract is that you don't have to sit around incurring further costs working out what the loss was.
What makes it uneconomic is the expense of court fees, lawyers, delay etc. It's much cheaper to hire debt collectors (letter-sending machines and call centre agents) than it is to hire lawyers to actually litigate every claim - especially when the claim is only a hundred quid or so.
They don't, you know.
Go on then, give me an example of the courts agreeing with the "fine" imposed by a parking company rather than something rather closer to the normal parking cost.
Whoa, whoa, whoa... there was no 'fee' or anything... but it was a rather empty car park for some flats.
but it was a rather empty car park for some flats
which means their 'losses' are exactly zero.
The company may get the court to compel the registered owner to identify who the driver on the occasion was
the whole point is that they can't do this. even the police can't when you get speeding fines, they are just allowed to give the points to the registered owner to get around this problem whereas private companies can only 'invoice' the person who parked the car.
Okay, the threatening letters have now started...Who has ignored them, what situation were you in, what was the outcome?
We have.
Had about 6-8 letters. Opened the first couple, binned the rest. They stopped.
That was Aldi carpark in Farnham, Surrey, BTW
some interesting replies here but I think reality would be slightly different.
we had one of the worst private claimping companies in the Uk in southend, one which was the subject of a Watchdog episode - LBS Enforcement.
What happened was you park in bay marked no parking (whether at local garage, private flats, back of shops etc..) before youre even out of your car youre blocked in by the clamper - clamp goes on immediately and you are charged in the region of £4-500 for a release fee... For those of you now thinking I wouldnt let this guy touch my car, the guys that are doing this are ususally found working the doors of east end and glasgow night clubs in their spare time, they also dont listen to arguments - if you dont pay the fee within the allotted time (usually around 20 minutes) it double or triples because theyve called out the van to tow your car, so yhose of you nipping off to get an angle grinder, the car wont be there when you get back. Call the police - its a civil matter, the signs are up, they're there with the agreement of the landowner, nothing thy can do. Obviously once your car is towed excessive storage fees are applied.
Many people took the company to court, most however lost as they were parking illegally in the first place, those that one tried to claim their money back from a company that had no assets other than a desk and a chair in a portakabin (the clampers were all self employed).
It was a very slick quite well thought out operation, which worked just bordering of inside the law.. Before the comapny was wound up it owed in excess of £20k to claimants not one had seen a penny and I doubt they ever will.
As far as I know becasue of this particular company the law has no been changed and this type of operation outlawed. But it always amazed me how many people went onto the local paper's website complaining theyd been clamped when there were huge great signs warning them...
At the end of the day if you dont want a parking ticket dont park where youre not supposed to...
that's a interesting story and highlights why the law is being changed to stop clamping companies.
has nothing to do with parking tickets though.
This is, by the way, bollocks.The piece of paper which they leave on your windscreen is not a fine. It is an invoice for liquidated damages based on your breach of the terms of the licence to enter the land which you had. It may be enforced through the courts as a civil matter (if their ducks are in a row - which they usually are). The company may get the court to compel the registered owner to identify who the driver on the occasion was. The amount recoverable is not limited merely to the unpaid parking fee. It is not extortion. And so on.
The correct position is that there is plenty the private companies can do to recover the money from you, but they usually don't bother because it's too expensive. Funnily enough, a whole multimillion pound industry is not based on an assertion with no basis in law. The true position is substantially different from what a million idiots on MSE talking about Magna Carta and the ECHR say and which gets replicated across t'internet like a million bar rooms.
So why haven't I been taken to court yet for the £18k+ I owe in parking charges?
there's nothing at all the private company can do about it apart from send you ever more threatening letters in red ink or perhaps a nasty phone call to try and scare you into payingThis is, by the way, bollocks.
The piece of paper which they leave on your windscreen is not a fine. It is an invoice for liquidated damages based on your breach of the terms of the licence to enter the land which you had. It may be enforced through the courts as a civil matter (if their ducks are in a row - which they usually are). The company may get the court to compel the registered owner to identify who the driver on the occasion was. The amount recoverable is not limited merely to the unpaid parking fee. It is not extortion. And so on.
The correct position is that there is plenty the private companies can do to recover the money from you, but they usually don't bother because it's too expensive. Funnily enough, a whole multimillion pound industry is not based on an assertion with no basis in law. The true position is substantially different from what a million idiots on MSE talking about Magna Carta and the ECHR say and which gets replicated across t'internet like a million bar rooms.
Sorry Konabunny you're wrong. The piece of paper is marked as a penalty charge notice and as such is an unlawful representation of losses.
Very few PPC's take people to court, its HIGHLY unlikely they would win as they can't fine you.
and yes it is a multimillion pound industry with no basis in law, it is a massive scam
Do you run a PPC by chance??
Liquidated damages don't have to be based on actual loss in a particular circumstance.
I did a bit of research and it appears that [url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/is-this-one-of-those-parking-tickets-you-can-just-ignore#post-1259079 ]in E&W law the amount of the liquidated damages has to be "reasonable"[/url] - something the charges they ask for clearly aren't.
Boardin bob must park where the hell he wants 😈
Boardin bob must park where the hell he wants
Nope. I park on my own land. Some idiot from a PPC thinks he can ticket cars on my land.
I had a couple from "Parking Eye" from being at Fistral Beach, Newquay.
The letters from them are headed "Parking Charge Notice", not PENALTY charge notice.
Nope. I park on my own land. Some idiot from a PPC thinks he can ticket cars on my land.
That's hilarious. I really, really hope they try and sue you at some point.
Parking Eye
Yes thats the one I had, look em up on the interweb moneysaving expert had a forum about them.
Ignore, they are trying it on
So why haven't I been taken to court yet for the £18k+ I owe in parking charges?
Who knows? Perhaps because it's not worth it for them; perhaps because their data isn't organised enough to realise that one person owes them enough cash to actually be worth suing for once; perhaps it's because they're not actually in the suing business, just the "writing letters and hoping people pay without having to sue them" business.
aracer: I can simply point out that your position has already shifted from being that the car park management companies can only claim the cost of the unpaid fee to now accepting that the car park management companies can only claim a "reasonable" amount in liquidated damages. With your fine critical reading skills, I'm sure you'll appreciate the difference. If you really want to get into it yourself, start with Dunlop v New Garage and follow the stream of cases from there.
But already we're a long way from "if it's not issued by the Council then YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY!...there's nothing at all the private company can do about it...extortionate parking charges that are totally unreasonable yet completely unenforceable" which, I suppose, is progress.
I have some inside info on this. The parking eye type.
The business model is involves sending threatening letters based on data supplied by DVLA. There is a flaw in the business model where they send an ‘invoice’ to the registered keeper but it they can not ‘fine you’ and they will have difficulty proving who used the car park. The person who parked is liable to pay not the registered keeper. There I also a stretch of existing law where they would have to argue that there terms are enforceable as, in parking there, you accepted them, (you will notice the importance of signage in these car parks) but this has never been tested in court and the operators will not want to test it.
The operators are reliant on people just paying up as if these ever go to court there chances on minimal.
My lawyer friend is advising people to write back to the company stating only that you were not in there car park at the time they claim. Make no reference to the car or anything else. This is your best bet on stopping the letters but they will probably keep coming however it is highly unlikely you will end up in court.
edit: apologies for my horific english its friday and im out of here.edit
