[Closed] If you're thinking of winter car tyres...

and considering an icey conveyor belt?

This is promising...

But this is the one... 'Sneeuw', what a cracking word 🙂

strangely and against all logic on here (a cycling forum) i stuck the more agressive and deeper tread winter tires on the rear of my car......

Would it make sense to fit just three winter tyres or two, but diagonally staggered so there's one at the front and one at the opposite corner at the rear? Surely that would be better than having a front-rear imbalance in grip? I suppose the problem might come when reversing as different wheels are driven? Anyone tried this?

Read up how differentials work, then rethink your post.

First, they're not saying that winter tyres are as good as summer tyres- they're saying they work perfectly well in summer. All about balance, they're not saying you can't get better results with 2 sets of tyres, only that if you can only have one it's best to be winter tyres.

Well to a certain extent I agree with you. I don't have a choice about buying winter tyres here and as nobody sells new cars WITH winter tyres (actually, I guess they do in winter), I HAD to buy tyres. Very glad I did but given the stink of cooked rubber when I drive on them in warmer weather, I'm going to guess they'll be humped if I drive around on them in summer. Could just be mine obviously. Or how I drive.

Woody - Member

although that is more of a reflection on the state of the rear tyres than the efficiency of the 'winters'.

Yep, probably- to be fair I should have said the same, I had sensible deep-treaded standard tyres on the back so they still performed reasonably well, the less suitable the standard tyres are the more problematic it'll be.

@ trailrat

Do you think you'd get any better advice on a car forum :lol Was that on a landy BTW and how was it?

its actually on a frontera.

land rovers line on snow chains in my 1987 owners manual is only fit to the rear.

tinybits - Member
Oh god, I can't resist...

Glupton76, if your wife takes so little notice of you that she drove into the back of another vehicle, your advice can't really be relied upon. Do you think she would have stopped with winter tyres on?

Low speed going onto a roundabout - car in front bottled out of lunging for a gap half way through. Wife like a muppet was busy looking for her own gap and forgot to check that the car infront had actually gone.... More a touch of cars than a crash. Winter tyres would have made no difference.

molgrips - Member

I have Michelin energy savers on the Prius. I don't like them, but they grip fine (in summer). I don't like them because the ride seems harsh and they seem noisy.

Testing grip in a Prius? 😐

Testing grip in a Prius?

What?

It has brakes and a steering wheel..!

and tires made of tofu 😉

molgrips - Member

Testing grip in a Prius?

What?

It has brakes and a steering wheel..!

Ah! the GT model!

mtbmatt - Member
Would it make sense to fit just three winter tyres or two, but diagonally staggered so there's one at the front and one at the opposite corner at the rear? Surely that would be better than having a front-rear imbalance in grip? I suppose the problem might come when reversing as different wheels are driven? Anyone tried this?

Read up how differentials work, then rethink your post.

You seem a very serious man. But I have to say, unless you've actually tried the set-up, I don't think you're in any position to comment. The question was for those who've practical experience of the tyres distributed as described, not theory-hugging know it alls.

You also missed the bit where I mentioned that different wheels are driven when reversing... 😉

Missed the sarcasm. I'm staying out of this.

I test braking in all cars. Cornering less so.

1) FWD car on snow / slush with 4 summer tyres (limited grip, driver has plenty of feedback from driven wheels to amount of grip for both steering and accel / decel and drives accordingly) - quite likely to drive slowly.

2) FWD car on same roads with 2 winters on front - driver can feel loads of grip and doesnt experience chronic understreer and can now drive faster then with summer tyres.

now have someone else pull out / do something stupid and the driver has to react with braking and/or steering input.
Car (1) is not going to fast and either avoids impact or has a minor crash.

Car (2) is travelling at higher speed and the braking / steering input causes the rear summer tyres to break away, driver spins and has impact at higher speed then (1).
Its simple physics and human behavior at play.

If you want to increase your safety eitehr accept that (1) your summers tyres mean you will be travelling slower.
Or fit 4 winters and have confidence.

Else fit 2 winters to the front drive fast and enjoy lift off oversteer prior to the hospital stay.

What happens top driver 3 who has winter tyres on the front but is sensible enough not to drive faster, you could say drives more like driver 1? Perhaps driver 3 recognises that winter tyres will help them get out of difficult situations, up steep snow covered hills or down country lanes and not just drive faster.

I run Vredestein Snowtrac3s on a 2.0HDi Berlingo. I towed a 3.5t motorhome onto our drive with over 12" of snow in 2010. It is unstoppable (in a good way) in most normal conditions. It has only been temporarily defeated by getting "bellied out" on snow of sufficient depth and density to keep the front wheels off the floor.

nwilko - Member

Its simple physics and human behavior at play.

I mean this gently, but- not everyone is an accident waiting to happen. Car 2 driven safely is in a better allround position than car 1 driven safely. Either car is dangerous driven dangerously.

Why does either driver increase his speed ?

Why does either driver increase his speed ?

Have we done' what tyre pressure for winter tyres' yet..?

Loving this thread, a lot of arm chair drivers 😀

I can assure you that 2 winters on the front and 2 good tyres on the back work, having just driven back from skiing.

1 week in Chamonix, 5 days in Avoriaz, several times up at 4,000 feet+ and a 500+ mile drive back crossing the Jura [Lelex route de cret] with snow in the Haute Soane with several inches overnight in Luxeuil-les-Bains, The Vosges and Ardennes even in Holland with cars having difficulty in car parks.

Cham
[img] [/img]

Some where near St Claude 1200m
[img] [/img]

Kind of what I was saying, think the 'dynamics' of a van (like the T5 above and my T4) are different to those of a car (like the golf in Matt's video) so behave differently with tyre combinations.

(if you don't drive like a tool) 😉

LoCo - Member

Kind of what I was saying, think the 'dynamics' of a van (like the T5 above and my T4) are different to those of a car

(like the golf in Matt's video) so behave differently with tyre combinations.

(if you don't drive like a tool)

True, I did step the back end out on a roundabout that was just about sheet ice but that was just putting the power down a bit harsh and too soon, EDIT:- driving like a tool

 

Loving this thread, a lot of arm chair drivers

Er.. no.. lots of actual drivers. Most of us have driving licenses and have driven a lot.

molgrips - Member

Loving this thread, a lot of arm chair drivers

Er.. no.. lots of actual drivers. Most of us have driving licenses and have driven a lot.

Maybe you have, [waves willy] but some how I doubt if you have covered any where near my milage 😛

But how much have I learned about driving? How many different conditions have I driven in?

What this thread desperately needs now is SURFMAT........................

Dunno, but I bet you're nowlt but a sprog 😀

Googled surfmat and came up with this

[img] [/img]

LOL you talking about me or molgrips?

Molegrips, had to get up early this morning back early before it snows 😀

demonstration of 2 winters Vs 4..

A rear wheel drive VW, well I never. Glad my T5 is rear wheel drive as well and I put them on the front.

So, we circled back to this thread then?
[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/winter-car-tyres-sorry ]Winter Car Tires[/url]

I'm pretty sure we established that winter tires are safer with 4 matched tires as your safest option.
I though we'd also established that it makes no difference how good a driver you are. Your greatest risk is other road users and you're vehicles ability to be able to apply any avoidance manuvers you need to effect to the road surface. Winter tyres give your vehicle a far better chance of doing this successfully.

As far as part worns, its worth noting that like bike tyres, many winter tires are dual compound. This means they have a much softer sliica compound over top of a harder winter (still relatively soft) compound.

In the case of Bridgestone Blizzak's, this means you only get to enjoy their best performing winter compound for 1/2 the tread wear depth..Along with tread wear comes the reduction in the effectiveness of the siping and reduced ability to clear the last of the surface water that the grooves havent cleared etc

After that you're only marginally better than 'all season' rubber.... but.. marginally is still better, and certainly still better than a summer tyre.

I commute 5 days a week from Squamish to Whistler. I'm running minus sized Continental EWC's and I still feel vunerable on a daily basis in the mixed road conditions we have here (snow, slush, ice, wet, compact snow, dry but -20deg, sluch over ice.. whatever you can imagine). Fridays are worst when heading south past a majority of northbound city weekend warriors on all season rubber rushing up to whistler after work. I agree I sometimes still get complacent and approach pushing the sensible limits!

I'm obviously biased towards winter tires, as I have an absolute need for them where I live, I do understand that winter tyres are not necessairily right for everyone over in the UK, but [b]its great that the [u]OP[/u] is happy with his choice to install 4 winters and he has inarguably made himself safer in the process.
[/b]

Dales_rider - Member

I can assure you that 2 winters on the front and 2 good tyres on the back work, having just driven back from skiing.

To be fair, in the first pic it looks like you've stopped at about 45 degrees to the road 🙂

nwilko - Member

demonstration of 2 winters Vs 4..

Same thing again- the video demonstrates that if you drive badly with 2 winters, it ends badly.

Bearback,

Yeah but no but yeah but no but....

F me, I think you've actually understood what I was on about! No, there no way I HAVE to have use them, but again today I was glad to have them. I watched a small van slide sideways across the road, verge and into a hedge whilst I sat there with terrible driving skills, completely fine on the same road (on top of the Mendips). Works for me and I'm happy.

[url= http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/winter-tyres-vs-four-wheel-drive ]http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/winter-tyres-vs-four-wheel-drive[/url]

birky - what a waste of cash and time that movie was

doesnt matter if you had 27.5 wheel drive - if you stick plastic tires on itll go no where. blind pew and his dog could have predicted that

id like to have seen winter tires 4x4 vs winter tires 2WD