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Cash, confused here but then again we do have about 20" of stagnant powder in our drive at only 380ft above sea level......
I find that if I expose myself to other drivers that I dont need winter tyres
tinybits - MemberFfs, I'm so sorry I started this!
I like em, they work for me. I'm pleased I splashed out. If you're too good a driver for them to work for you then fair play and I look forward to your 2013 wrc / f1title celebrations.
Enough now!
I though that this was a public service by providing a place to vent, so the God thread could be debated reasonably without bannings or it being locked.
I have a stunning member. A sort of Spitfire of loins. It makes a fantastic noise you know 😮
I doubt I would have bought them if I was still in middle Englandshire, but up here they seem to be needed for all the months that do not rhyme with 'June'.
Part worn German ones with 4mm or so on them
That's basically worn out for winters. They require more tread than summers to be effective.
Tinybits, threads worth it !
Ok like most i just roll into a fitters, they shout a few prices, i pick one depending on state of wallet and drive away new boots.
All this talk of silly money tyres, must be just for fatcats in fat 2ton cars.
Granted i only have little ones.
155/70R13 prices from £30 each to £50 each, last two tyres i fitted where £35 each incl fitting. Thats all new prices, not part worns.
So with some scrap yard diving i might find some spare rims, with some research using the little A-F guide ratings i can compare my normal tyres against winter tyres.
With only a quick look about, some of the cheapies fair better on the A-F guide ratings than the posher ones.
And i always thought winter tyres where expensive 🙂
Isn't the simple and cheap option just to buy a decent set of chains and pop them in the boot in case you need them?! Low cost, they last forever and they will get you safe up and down the hills even in the deepest snow we get in most of the UK. Just a thought!
Chains help get you moving in snow.
Winter tyres help you get moving in snow, don't need removing when you hit tarmac, and give you more grip all winter long on black ice, slush, mud etc.
Downsman - MemberIsn't the simple and cheap option just to buy a decent set of chains and pop them in the boot in case you need them?! Low cost, [b]they last forever[/b] and they will get you safe up and down the hills even in the deepest snow we get in most of the UK. Just a thought!
they last about 5 mins in this country.
tarmac destroys them very quickly - and there aren't many times you'll be sure of driving on a road that's completely covered in snow.
and they knacker the tarmac.
although you do feel like a proper man when you fit a set of chains in a blizzard 🙂
Ive done the German tyre route and true snow tyres need tread but also....ever walked round a car salvage yard? Cars scrapped their/bundle up the winter tyres as theres a known market here and.....send them over. Would you trust a used tyres provinence?
I use winter tyres all year round. I reckon the wet grip is better with winter tyres even at 30°C. I haven't read the whole thread so if anyone has any test evidence to the contrary fell free to disagree and post it.
The problem is not grip, it's the fact the tyres get destroyed in warm weather. In the December warm snap here, every time I got out of my car I could smell the hot rubber. In one 2000km round trip I wore them down more than 10000km on my summer tyres. They're much softer and in my case, my winter tyres are much narrower than my summer ones so I actually get far less grip apart from on snow/ice.
In a way it's pointless buying winter tyres with 5mm of tread as that is the point when they say to get rid of them (and hence why they are cheap).
But then again how many people have 5mm on their summer tyres right now? so a wintery tyre with 4-5mm will still be better in the cold and damp than a 4-5mm summer tyre.
Chains - pretty much pointless in the UK unless you know you are going to be driving on uncleared roads somewhere and you have to take them off when you get to clear road. I've seen cars driving round with them when they really shouldn't which is a huge problem as people use them without actually knowing the correct use.
Snow socks - they might work for snow but again they need to come off as soon as you hit clear road. Maybe a good emergency back up I guess if cheap and universal fitting.
Those who disgrace winter tyres are the people who have not used them and don't understand the benefits.
Those who champion them are the people who have tried them and won't be without them.
Recently bought a 4wd car, which came without winter tyres and the snow fell while we were awaiting some to be fitted. It was awful! Plenty of traction to drive, but very little turning or braking. Now the winter tyres are fitted it is incredible.
The sooner it becomes compulsory the better. Maybe then the country won't grind to a halt every time it snows.
The problem is not grip, it's the fact the tyres get destroyed in warm weather.
Apparently Continental think otherwise;
"Winter tyres are as quiet and comfortable as summer tyres and, thanks to sophisticated compound technology, do not wear any more quickly."
My experience back this up as well, we have winters fitted all year round and don't have to change any more frequently than when we used summer tyres.
My experience back this up as well, we have winters fitted all year round and don't have to change any more frequently than when we used summer tyres.
Guess it depends on what you have really. If it's true though, why wouldn't Conti only sell winter tyres and market themselves aggressively that they're the only company to give you real all-year tyres?
Got a set of winter tyres for my Merc Vito back January. They have been excellent in the snow over the last week. Living in Mid wales we have plenty of snow and we have some faily big hills. Not got stuck once. They are also much better when there is standing water on the roads.
neil
www.redkite-events.co.uk
Michelin energy saver summer rubber to Perelli winter tyres yesterday made more difference than I thought possible
In fairness ANYTHING would be better than what you had fitted! Recently drove an Audi with these and they were horrible.
For those that don't want a winter tyre, have a look at the Uniroyal RainExpert. Same tread as their SnowExpert, just a different compound. I think they are pretty good in the snow with some sensible driving.
What a lot of people forget about when they reckon "everyone should have winter tyres" is that not everyone has room to store winter tyres!
What a lot of people forget about when they reckon "everyone should have winter tyres" is that not everyone has room to store winter tyres!
More of a UK problem than anywhere else. My garage stores them for the princely sum of 50e per year and that includes changing the wheels back and balancing them when refitted.
For those that don't want a winter tyre, have a look at the Uniroyal RainExpert. Same tread as their SnowExpert, just a different compound. I think they are pretty good in the snow with some sensible driving.
Rain Experts don't have sipes. Snow Experts do. It is the sipes that make winter tyres so good on the snow, not just the compound.
In fairness ANYTHING would be better than what you had fitted! Recently drove an Audi with these and they were horrible
I have Michelin energy savers on the Prius. I don't like them, but they grip fine (in summer). I don't like them because the ride seems harsh and they seem noisy.
It's a myth that they don't grip well. I have Nokian summers on the Passat, all their tyres are energy savers, and they are excellent.
I have had wioter tyres for two years now, front and rear of the car. I have noticed a huge difference over the last few weeks but also when it was below zero conditions in December. I will leave them on until prbably mid / late March then put them back on mid October. For me they are no more expensive than 'normal' tyres so its a no brainer really.
I get my wheel alignment and balancing done when the tyres are swapped over but this is a good thing to get done every now and again anyway so another plus in my opinion.
I have had winter tyres for two years now, front and rear of the car.
On a front wheel drive I've never considered putting snow/winter/cold weather tyres on all four corners. They only go on the front as I can't see there being any advantage, apart from lining Kwik Fit pockets, in putting them on the rears. Never had problems either.
On a front wheel drive I've never considered putting snow/winter/cold weather tyres on all four corners. They only go on the front as I can't see there being any advantage, apart from lining Kwik Fit pockets, in putting them on the rears. Never had problems either.
You might want to watch [url=
There are plenty of other (better) videos too, but I can't find them.
audi wedged its self between 2 walls on monday decending a hill and literally touching the brakes - rear end broke away and it all went wrong
i spoke to the fella and he was cursing that he only had winter tires on the front after that. - affirms why you should use compression breaking if you dont have rear winters instead of brakes.
obviously driving gods need not apply this logic.
Hmm, it lost credibility when she said she'd try and get through the corner as fast as she could rather than as safely as she could. I've seen cars with ice tyres lose it when driven as fast as possible.
I ran just front winter tyres first time round, it worked well- the idea isn't for it to be just as good as 4 winter tyres, but for it to be better than no winter tyres. If you try and drive as if you had 4, you'll have issues obviously. Pleased to have all 4 this time round.
Edukator - MemberI use winter tyres all year round. I reckon the wet grip is better with winter tyres even at 30°C. I haven't read the whole thread so if anyone has any test evidence to the contrary fell free to disagree and post it.
The other part of this, is that even if the winter tyres were less good in summer, you're still trading grip in ideal conditions in order to gain grip in bad conditions. That's a good trade in my book.
atlaz - Memberit's the fact the tyres get destroyed in warm weather.
Might happen with some, but not with my Toyos or Hankooks.
atlaz - MemberIf it's true though, why wouldn't Conti only sell winter tyres and market themselves aggressively that they're the only company to give you real all-year tyres?
First, they're not saying that winter tyres are as good as summer tyres- they're saying they work perfectly well in summer. All about balance, they're not saying you can't get better results with 2 sets of tyres, only that if you can only have one it's best to be winter tyres. As for "the only company"- they aren't.
hora - MemberWould you trust a used tyres provinence?
Do you instantly replace all 4 tyres on a used car?
The you are either a driving god or very lucky. I had a week, 3 years ago, of waiting for the rears after fitting fronts and it was not good at all. Sure, you can drive off as normal on winter tyres but braking and cornering is imbalanced and dangerous.They only go on the front as I can't see there being any advantage, apart from lining Kwik Fit pockets, in putting them on the rears. Never had problems either.
Wouldn't be without mine and got to Swinhope skiing yesterday using winter tyres on a FWD 'boat' of a car when there were some 4WD struggling on standard tyres. The difference in grip in cold/wet conditions is huge too and my tyres were only £57.50 a corner 3 years ago, which for me represents excellent value.
They only go on the front as I can't see there being any advantage
Don't you ever slow down or turn corners then?
Do you instantly replace all 4 tyres on a used car?
I don't often buy smashed up/written off cars. My point is if the tyres are used- what did they used to be on? I doubt very much that 6mm+ tyres (you do see a fair few of them on Ebay) were discarded by German Motorists and magically find themself in a big container etc etc.
Don't you ever slow down or turn corners then?
Of course I do, and I'm a bit lost as to what you're trying to say. Cars can't turn corners or slow down unless they have 4 winter tyres?
On snow, not very well at all, no.
You need all four tyres to control the car properly. That's why you have four brake calipers. And when you go around corners, the rear wheels stop your car spinning around.
hora - MemberI doubt very much that 6mm+ tyres (you do see a fair few of them on Ebay) were discarded by German Motorists and magically find themself in a big container etc etc.
It's not just crashed things that end up in scrapyards (and not all crashed things end up there)
molgrips - MemberYou need all four tyres to control the car properly. That's why you have four brake calipers. And when you go around corners, the rear wheels stop your car spinning around.
The point is that 2 winter tyres is still more effective than 0. If you lose the rear, then you'd obviously still have had the same problem with no winter tyres- but there's a fair chance you'd have had a problem earlier.
If you try and drive it like it has 4 winter tyres it will end badly, and that's the risk. And of course, it can get you as far as an accident that you'd not have reached if you were stuck in the driveway! But if you've got a decent brain, it's never worse than 4 summer tyres.
I think the main problem with only 2 winter tyres is that they might give you a sense of confidence that you would otherwise not have.
You can pull off fine, get great traction and think everything is rosy, then come to brake or a sharp cornering manoeuvre and you are shafted.
Where as all 4 summer tyres, you are struggling from the start and you would hope that anyone who had to use a car in those circumstances would be driving to the conditions. It certainly wouldn't be the case that the tyres would offer a false sense of security.
I think the main problem with only 2 winter tyres is that they might give you a sense of confidence that you would otherwise not have.
Where theres snow and theres cold there is always the chance of ice. Then theres the usual- spilt diesel etc etc. No one should put all their skillz onto just tyres. Observation and conditions!
mtbMatt, running winters on front of the T4 and standard on the back, but they're pretty deep tread pattern.
Heavy vehicle, low power I have been prevoking it to slide (off road) but you really have to try to get it to let go on the back.
In relation to the video posted a golf is probably about half the weight and the summer rears will be pretty shallow tread pattern in comparison to the van's ones, which are pretty similar to the winter with exception of the cuts in the blocks.
That's a good point Hora. I agree.
Very true and wise words here. There's ALOT we can all learn from Hora. Seriously smart fella.
Have to disagree with you there.But if you've got a decent brain, it's never worse than 4 summer tyres.
IMO the brain will register traction available through steering input and when you have back tyres with considerably less grip than the front (assuming FWD) then you are constantly having to gauge (guess) the level of traction at the rear. It also completely screws up the ABS.
That wasn't my real world experience 😉 Is it yours? Making your decisions based on front wheel traction is just driver error, regardless of tyres, anyone using only 2 winter tyres should be particularily aware of this though.
I suppose what I'm really saying is that it gives you the option to make more mistakes, but they're still avoidable mistakes.
Would it make sense to fit just three winter tyres or two, but diagonally staggered so there's one at the front and one at the opposite corner at the rear? Surely that would be better than having a front-rear imbalance in grip? I suppose the problem might come when reversing as different wheels are driven? Anyone tried this?
How about if you factor in robin reliants?
I'm considering adding a sea anchor to my barge.
How about if you factor in robin reliants?
Possibly a cheaper option than winter tyres for Audi. Merc and BMW drivers. Especially as Reliants have small-ish wheels. There must be a YouTube video showing a Robin Reliant with winter tyres pitted against a big Beemer on snow.
Yes. A week of winter fronts waiting for delivery of the rears was more than enough to convince me of the value of 4 winter tyres.That wasn't my real world experience Is it yours?
My rears needed replaced anyway and the tail would come out at the slightest provocation, even emerging from a junction. As for braking, there are a number of steep hills where I live and on several occasions I was in first gear hoping for the best as the ABS kicked in as soon as the rear lost traction making braking non-existant, although that is more of a reflection on the state of the rear tyres than the efficiency of the 'winters'.