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good point well made donk.
The child decides whether to eat it or not.
'back in the day' you got another chance to decide if you wanted to eat it or not, at the next meal time.
Even better, as you are giving them the option to change their minds. Up to the point when the food goes mouldy, of course.
i had forgotten about that mr smith my folks did that all the time! might have to bring that rule in at nonk towers. 😈
is it fair to foist your beliefs on an infant?
The parent has decided what they want the child to eat
Do meat eaters do this ss well - it not really a controversial point.
Vegans do it, Meat eaters do it its what parents do when feeding their kids. It is not a "vegan" issue that eradicates choice [ it does but for both diets as someoen else has chosen. We could say the same if all we ever did was give our kids Indian food.
Like DONK says if we let our kids choose vegan or otherwise they would choose cake and chocolate with the occasional sweet and/or crisps for balance. They would probably choose chips as well but they would also choose salad to be fair.
Most parents would not allow this for fairly obvious reasons.
DONK you should get him a FS balance bike and some body armour as he sounds like a Downhiller to me 😉
Mine did the run down from Leads mine along the bridleway to bottom of rivvy at the weekend and now think they are proper MTBers as they have ridden the "bumpy" stuff
I have no problem with kids not eating meat but to bring them up in a vegan/vegetarian household and not expect them to accept that as the 'norm' is a bit niaeve.
I don't see it as naive - there is far more pressure,opportunity, whatever to eat meat than not. I've never even mentioned what was in a McDonalds burger, but I have been asked if it had meat in it or not. I wouldn't stop them having one if they chose too either.
I'd say all of their friends eat meat in front of them every day, this contributes to the norm also. As does more or less the rest of the world they come into contact with (school dinners, snacks at nursery etc.)
The eldest certainly knows it is unusual, as he's exposed to more of the world than the others and has plenty of opportunity to eat it without fear of censure - we don't ever mention it. But he always chooses not to eat it. The youngest will 'table surf' parties and pick up the odd sausage roll, but doesn't make a bee line for it.
[i]Do meat eaters do this ss well - it not really a controversial point.
Vegans do it, Meat eaters do it its what parents do when feeding their kids. It is not a "vegan" issue that eradicates choice [ it does but for both diets as someoen else has chosen. We could say the same if all we ever did was hive our kids Indian food][/i]
So if we offered one of ours meat, and they didn't want it, we'd try to find another way of giving them the nutrients they require. Not force them to eat the meat. If we were vegan, and our child wanted to eat meat, would it be fair to refuse them?
[i]I wouldn't stop them having one if they chose too either.[/i]
I think what I was tryign to say was that if you never go into MacDondalds your kids will never ask to go there - it's just not on their radar as something you do as a family. They may be curious about it but they won't see it as something that 'we' (your family) do.
It's not wrong, it's just how things are.
All humans pick up cultural norms initially from their parents/immediate family and they're then exposed to a wider range of influences and may choose, later on, to adopt a different lifestyle.
'back in the day' you got another chance to decide if you wanted to eat it or not, at the next meal time
Good job things have moved on eh? Wonderful thing, progress 🙂
I have no problem with kids not eating meat but to bring them up in a vegan/vegetarian household and not expect them to accept that as the 'norm' is a bit niaeve.
Our kids (6 & 8 ) don't really see it as the norm. Their grandparents eat meat, their friends eat meat, meat is on TV and in the shops. I think its natural that any beliefs the parents hold are likely to get passed on to the kids.
I ate meat up until aged 14(38 now) and wish that I had never been brought up on it. I also was bought up a Christian and now I can think and reason for myself I wish I'd never been also. But still, I recognise that my parents did their best by what they believed and thank them for providing me with enough 'consciousness' to question things and act on them.
I think kids cannot understand the implications of eating meat and so of course have to go by what their parents say, thats natural and nothing will or should change that.
If we were vegan, and our child wanted to eat meat, would it be fair to refuse them?
Depends on the age of the child IMHO
My kids know they can choose as they are old enough now to understand enough. the eldest [6] does not want to eat meat. The youngest nearly 5 says he will eat it when he is older but refuses it if offered.
they know I wont be buying any though.
How many meat eaters support their kids when they turn vegiie
The argument is just getting circular now opbvioulsy at some point the kids will choose whwether to eat meat or not to.
What if your kids wanted some wine with their meal like you 😉
Thats why I said it depends on age. I accpet I forced them to not eat meat initially in the same way that i accept meat eaters forced their kids to eat meat as at 12 months the kids were hardly choosing.
PS kids all kids start of veggie then parents introduce meat - first food is always veggie for kids... I am clutching at straws now though. 8)
[i]How many meat eaters support their kids when they turn vegiie[/i]
My son was a vegetarian between about 11 and 13 and then started eating meat again (not sure why).
We eat meat but made sure he got all the nutrition he needed without it.
As per Junkyard - it's all about the age that children begin to see they have a choice and parents giving them the option to exercise it (within the boundaries of what is 'sensible', obviously). But that applies to everything, not just food.
Thats why I said it depends on age. I accpet I forced them to not eat meat initially in the same way that i accept meat eaters forced their kids to eat meat as at 12 months the kids were hardly choosing
so you denied them the choice. a small child can spit meat out if it doesn't like it, you never gave them that opportunity thus forcing your sensibilities on them before they can even make a choice.
I think what I was tryign to say was that if you never go into MacDondalds your kids will never ask to go there - it's just not on their radar as something you do as a family. They may be curious about it but they won't see it as something that 'we' (your family) do.
It's a fair point, but only really holds water till they start nursery/school - the ensuing social whirl has them exposed to a variety of 'norms'. Then they soon start asking 'we don't we ..' if they are interested. Like skiing and 4x4s 🙂
It's odd. As you no doubt guessed, we wouldn't take them to McDs as a 'treat', but we might stop there if there were no better alternative (Burgerking :-D) and they were starving. But even after several trips with friends (and not us), they still don't ask for burgers.
Maybe they have well developed social skills that let them adapt to each situation perfectly to gain favour, but the state of my car suggests otherwise 🙂
Does she have nice breasts?
His house, his rules. Since when did kids start deciding what's for dinner?!
Not really sure why people have a problem with kids being veg*n.
This really gets on my wick. Some of theses comments...
I was bought up veggie because my in my parents opinion it was the healthiest option. Thats what you do as parents, you do what YOU think is best. If that happens to be veggie, meat eating, vegan, fish only so what. All this stuff about lack of choice, forcing believes on kids is baloney (do you like what I did). As adults we're there to make informed choices for them.
So if the choices I make (or would make, early days yet!) as a parent aren't the same as you would make, you don't like it and you want to tell me about it, jog on.
so you denied them the choice. a small child can spit meat out if it doesn't like it, you never gave them that opportunity thus forcing your sensibilities on them before they can even make a choice.
Do you want me to accept this point again ? Yes I chose what they can eat just like a meat eater chose. I suspect if they spat it our meat eaters would try other meats or fish or “persevere “ with it. They would not go oh look our child wants to be vegan lets respect its wishes at 9 mths to express this view.
The other obvious defence to this claim is to point out that I also denied them the opportunity to decide if they like fags, heroin or special brew or to run out into the road without looking and a million other things they would choose to do..its like they are children and I am parent and more responsible or something.
You think I have not done this argument to death
I got told I was indoctrinating my kids by a muslim mate who sends his kids to a muslim school, them to mosque after school and then at the weekends the y go to mosque to learnt he Koran off by heart…all parents do this and all parents make the choice over diet.
This is the conundrum of the day in this council office apparently.
Tell the workshy jobsworths to stop wasting council taxpayers money and start providing some services.
[b]"Does she have nice breasts?"[/b]
It's a theoretical person so you can theoretically decide for yourself.
The resident office non meat eater (not yet decided if she is or isn't vegan - that's a whole new hot debate just taking shape) has flexi credited herself the rest of the day off. She was quite annoyed by it all.
A bailiff company based in Lancashire will be on reduced referrals as a result.
I would tell them BigJohn but.....I don't really want to, to be honest.
so you denied them the choice. a small child can spit meat out if it doesn't like it, you never gave them that opportunity thus forcing your sensibilities on them before they can even make a choice.
The sensibilities of a parent would usually be of morals,not physical taste. Not liking the taste of something is entirely different from making a choice based on a basic understanding of cruelty or even what in fact meat is which is something kids are capable of after they get a bit older...
A very young child will have no concept of what makes up its food, only what tastes good and what doesn't so asking them to make any kind of moral judgement is perhaps a bit much at such a young age.
What about people that hate animals so much they refuse to eat them. I know a few people that hold that opinion.
A very young child will have no concept of what makes up its food, only what tastes good and what doesn't so asking them to make any kind of moral judgement is perhaps a bit much at such a young age.
you could argue that perhaps imposing a moral judgement on them is a bit much at such a young age.
I wish my parents had been a bit pushier with my diet as a child. I didn't like fruit, so never ate it, and I still can't stand the stuff. About once a year I'll make an effort to try and eat fruit, but it never goes well. I hate the texture, it makes me gag, and for the most part I hate the taste and even the smell. Banana, apples and pineapples are the worst. Eck.
I didn't start eating veg until I was in my mid-teens, and would quite happily put sugar on Frosties and Crunchy Nut Cornflakes, plus 3 teaspoons in my tea. I also religiously drank coffee as a toddler, I remember being no older than four when I threw a cup of tea across the kitchen in disgust because I wanted my usual coffee.
My mother was ace! 😆
you could argue that perhaps imposing a moral judgement on them is a bit much at such a young age.
which moral judgement? That its ok to eat meat or that its not ok to eat meat? Either way you impose one.
derek_starship-member
Some vegans don't eat honey?FFS don't tell me that bees are distressed / harmed / exploited during the production and harvesting of honey.
TandemJeremy - Member
of course they are Derek FFS man
i'd love to be so comfortably middle class that i had nothing to really worry about and i could obsess about the welfare of exploited bees instead
I also religiously drank coffee as a toddler, I remember being no older than four when I threw a cup of tea across the kitchen in disgust because I wanted my usual coffee.
Awesome 😆
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i'd love to be so comfortably middle class that i had nothing to really worry about and i could obsess about the welfare of exploited bees instead
yes yes only the middle classes are vegan can I make a spurious and wide sweeping statement about morons and meat eating yet??
go ahead.
you know i'm right.
I was bought up veggie because my in my parents opinion it was the healthiest option. Thats what you do as parents, you do what YOU think is best. If that happens to be veggie, meat eating, vegan, fish only so what. All this stuff about lack of choice, forcing believes on kids is baloney (do you like what I did). As adults we're there to make informed choices for them.So if the choices I make (or would make, early days yet!) as a parent aren't the same as you would make, you don't like it and you want to tell me about it, jog on.
Ditto the above.
Until such as age that they are able to make certain decisions for themselves, I see no problem with bringing a child up in line with your own morals, lifestyle, religious beliefs etc.
I also religiously drank coffee as a toddler, I remember being no older than four when I threw a cup of tea across the kitchen in disgust because I wanted my usual coffee.
😯
Pull the udder one...
I actually hate coffee now, not had it since I was a kid. :s I think I stopped drinking it when I was about 7 or 8 - by that point I'd grown to accept tea, so my mother stopped giving me coffee.
It takes a lot for me to reject cake (I'll even eat it if it's got sultanas in it), but banana and coffee is where I draw the line. Ugh.
My Mum used to make me eat sliced banana Sarnies.
I shudder still.
Still, she also made me eat Carnation milk, longley farm yoghurt, gooseberry pie and Dixons ice cream - I can only eat these brands/'type'. I can't stand any other ice cream! 😀
I had a sliced banana butty with sugar on for my dinner today. Full fat maragarine as well. A pork pie was considered but it would have meant walking the mean streets of Salford to get one. I decided against it.
you could argue that perhaps imposing a moral judgement on them is a bit much at such a young age.
You could indeed, but it has to be one or the other, a baby/toddler can't decide. The post I was responding to assumed that if a child didn't spit the food out, then it was ok to eat it. I'm saying that, that decision is based purely on taste and the wee one can't be expected to make a decision based on a knowledge of what happens for meat to get to our tables.
Double post weirdness.
... or perhaps a Parents veganism/vegetarianism isn't a moral decision, but just "I don't like meat"
it is about the exploitation of animals and the cruelty inherent in it being industrialised
If veganism is a choice based on the cruelty in farming animals is it acceptable for a vegan to eat roadkill?
If veganism is a choice based on the cruelty in farming animals is it acceptable for a vegan to eat roadkill?
Or perhaps they could wait around for animals to die naturally.
(Granted, it's not very practical.)
being that there's an absence of poetry on stw here's this kids poem from celebrity vegan and all round good guy benjamin zephaniah
Vegan Delight
Ackeess,chapatties
Dumplins an nan,
Channa an rotis
Onion uttapam,
Masala dosa
Green callaloo
Bhel an samosa
Corn an aloo.
Yam an cassava
Pepperpot stew,
Rotlo an guava
Rice an tofu,
Puri, paratha
Sesame casserole,
Brown eggless pasta
An brown bread rolls.
Soya milked muesli
Soya bean curd,
Soya sweet sweeties
Soya's de word,
Soya bean margarine
Soya bean sauce,
What can mek medicine?
Soya of course.
Soya meks yoghurt
Soya ice-cream,
Or soya sorbet
Soya reigns supreme,
Soya sticks liquoriced
Soya salads
Try any soya dish
Soya is bad.
Plantain an tabouli
Cornmeal pudding
Onion bhajee
With plenty cumin,
Breadfruit an coconuts
Molasses tea
Dairy free omelettes
Very chilli.
Ginger bread, nut roast
Sorell, paw paw,
Cocoa an rye toast
I tek dem on tour,
Drinking cool maubi
Meks me feel sweet,
What was dat question now?
WHAT DO WE EAT?
Or perhaps they could wait around for animals to die naturally.
Animals that die natural deaths are not allowed to be used for human consumption due to disease etc. I do get your point though.
Roadkill, if fresh, often only requires a small impact damaged area to be removed. I can't think of a reason why it could not fit into the vegan lifestyle.
I can't think of a reason why it could not fit into the vegan lifestyle.
yes of course eating meat is not incompatibkle with a meat free diet excellent reasoning
Some piss poor trolling on this one
I can't think of a reason why it could not fit into the vegan lifestyle.
er, cos vegans don't eat meat, by definition. Motivation is irrelevant.
vegans should kill themselves, it's the ultimate sacrifice to pay for the damage their very existence does to the planet. if they can be composted and not cremated it's better for the plants.