[Closed] I wonder if she thinks it was a life well lived.

Rusty Spanner - Member
Teamhurtmore, did you possibly miss JUAD's more offensive earlier posts?

Rusty, Yes, I did. But still a great line all the same 😉

No one, I hope, wants [s] that woman[/s] anyone to suffer.

Sadly, you are not representative of many of the deeply unpleasant "dance on her grave" types. Luckily, you're a damned fine person doing a damned fine job. Thank you for that, from the bottom of my heart. Having seen a family member go through dementia, it means a lot that there are people like you out there.

Sadly, again, there are people who are not like you.

Has a look and decides to slip away quietly.

I really don't want to get dragged onto this thread, it's just another one about entrenched opinions concerning someone who I don't want to waste too much time thinking about, and who regularly and tediously comes up for "discussion", ......... nuclear energy, the Falklands, religion, Thatcher, etc, done to the death imo.

Although with reference to

In the context of a coalition

My response would be - why in the context of a coalition ? It's not the fault of LibDem voters that the Tories didn't get enough votes. But let's leave it at that.

why in the context of a coalition ?

Because, by definition (I guess) neither party has a full mandate. They still have to do something though....well actually probably the less the better, if I am going to be consistent!!

the British electorate had a fair idea what to expect from Thatcher.

yeah good point, cos when we saw this

[img] [/img]

we all knew that her intention was to get people back to work

Pretty daft comment trailmonkey since I very clearly said :

[i]"despite being the longest serving British Prime Minister of the 20th century, she pretty much failed in all her stated aims."[/i]

How she would allegedly [i]achieve[/i] her stated aims was fairly clear to the British electorate ....... she would privatise this and privatise that, she would pass this bit of legislation and that bit of legislation, etc. In other words the British electorate had a good idea what her policies were and what they were voting for. That can't be said of Cameron, and even less so of Clegg.

Tandembullshit'?
Have you met TJ, or even had the balls to engage with him in a reasonable discussion, you pathetic, repulsive little man?

Grow up.

i hope never to meet him, or you as i expect you smell strongly of wee.

Excellent. Now on a thread which nominally is about politics, punters have started to accuse each other of being smelly.

The irony of the inability of some to engage in even the vaguest form of meaningful political debate, whilst everyone is so keen to castigate politicians, isn't lost on me.

I blame Thatcher.

Maybe she was sat there thinking 'I bet this'll cause a row on stw"?

I think the problem is Thatcher/Blair/etc seem to have this inexaustable well of self-belief and an utter dedication to their own infallibility.

Most of us are capable of thinking "Actually, I made a mistake doign that and I'll stop trying to justify it".

It seems that some are either incapable of the introspection needed to arrive at these truths.

They're not the sort of people you want runnign the country, tbh.

What was the Marxist position at the time Ernie?

been old enough to remember the wilson and callaghan years i think its a more than fair argument that they did more to harm the country than fatch and her pals. the country sank into a deep pit of despair/ strikes with the pipe smokers at the helm from which its removal was inevitably painful. the facts stand alone though.. longest serving pm of the 20th century and re elected 3 times and in a democracy thats called people power or popular.
just because some have an opposing viewpoint to the govt she lead does nt make them right it just means they were in a very limited minority.

Nope - those against thatcher where always a majority. her governments never had a majority of the popular vote.

TJ nice balanced opener this morning. Would you care to enlighten everyone on how many post War UK governments of any party have secured more than 50% of the vote in a general election. Oh and maybe compare thatcher's share with Wilson, Callaghan and Blair?

Never let the truth get in the way of a good yarn - the Wednesday version!

What relevance does that have? - once again you leap in attacking a statement I had made - as statement that is true and a rebuttal of the previous poster.

Your pathological need to attack everything I post is really laughable.

Oooh, ooh, I reckon could answer that one THM, I'm holding my hand up and everything

😀

Thatcher/Blair/etc seem to .....

It seems that some .....

So 'presentation' is the problem then, and not necessarily the policies ? You could be right.

I really can't think of any other logical reason why Cameron and Clegg should be considered any better than Thatcher, or if you prefer, why Thatcher should be considered worse than Cameron and Clegg.

And I think you are being far too generous to Cameron and Clegg if you are suggesting that unlike Thatcher and Blair they stop and think "Actually, I made a mistake doing that and I'll stop trying to justify it".

The countless U-turns which they have been forced to preform probably reflects more the fact that neither command the sort of electoral support which both Thatcher and Blair enjoyed. And also the fact that Thatcher and Blair where generally better judges of public opinion.

I really can't imagine Thatcher coming up with something as dumb as wanting to privatise the countryside (without at the very least trying to soften up public opinion first) and then being forced into a humiliating U-turn because of mounting opposition by a gobsmacked public. It remains to be seen how successful Cameron and Clegg are in privatising Britain's road.

Thatcher chose her policies carefully (or at least her advisers did). Selling Labour supporters their council homes to them at ridiculous give-away prices was a stroke of genius which brought huge electoral benefit for her. Obviously it did absolutely nothing to alleviate Britain's permanent chronic shortage of affordable housing, and in fact it made the problem far worse with less available housing and rising prices which a few years later resulted in the collapse of the market and unprecedented levels of repossessions. But Thatcher never got blamed for any of that, and she only benefited from a highly popular policy.

Yes, Thatcher [i]did eventually[/i] very seriously misjudge public opinion. As soon as that happened she was forced to pack her bags and was kicked out of Downing Street, but up until that point she had an excellent record of giving the public what they wanted, eg, selling ten pound notes for a fiver - or privatising the utilities as it's sometimes called.

They're not the sort of people you want runnign the country, tbh.

Well maybe [i]you[/i] don't, but Thatcher and Blair were precisely the sort of people which the British electorate wanted to run the country. Reflected in the very comfortable majorities which they both enjoyed.

Fact is better that conjecture and BS however inconvenient TJ!!

Yes - and it is a fact that no thatcher government had a majority of the poular vote.

Not conjecture and bullshit but simple clear fact.

Why do yo have this pathological need to leap into the attack on things I post - often - as in this instance and another on this thread yesterday totally wrong?

Feel free to attack when I am wrong or for things I say - but to attack when I quote a simple fact and as you did yesterday by making up things you then claim i say shows a very odd psyche indeed

Yes - and it is a fact that no thatcher government had a majority of the poular vote.

Name the last government that did TJ

totalshell - Member

been old enough to remember the wilson and callaghan years i think its a more than fair argument that they did more to harm the country than fatch and her pals.

It's very hard to challenge such a watertight argument as that.

Except perhaps by claiming that you're also old enough to remember and completely disagree.

Will that do ?

Name the last government that did TJ

I can't see why he should - he's made no claim that any recent government has had a majority of the popular vote.

He is simply pointing out that never at any time did the majority of British people support Thatcher and her policies. A fair point to make and one which is too often very conveniently forgotten/ignored.

TandemJeremy - Member

Why do yo have this pathological need to leap into the attack on things I post - often - as in this instance and another on this thread yesterday totally wrong?

Ah TJ, clearly I owe you an apology. I missed the fact that you posted random facts without reference to the context of the previous debate. I am sorry - I had given you too much credit. I had imagined a rhetorical rapier rather than....... For a brief moment, I was thinking that you were using a subtle trick to question the legitimacy of previous' posters' points - to cast a shadow over the (alleged) legitimacy of Thatcher's mandate. But obviously not - just a straight and accurate fact. So to have doubted your intentions was an obvious error on my part.

I had also misread another post on the nuclear thread:

and couldn't resist another poke at Zokes

Could have sworn that was you, but obviously not!!

TJ - Thatcher never had a popular majority
THM - Which government did ?
TJ - Thats irrelivent!

Seriously.....

Mcboo - Ernie is, in contrast, making valid points about the relative legitimacy of Blair/Brown/Cameron (Clegg) based on facts:

Blair: 40.7% of vote, [b]59% turnout[/b]
Blair/Brown: [b]35.2% vote, 61% turnout[/b]
Cameron: [b]36.1% vote, 65% turnout[/b]

Wilson (74): [b]37.2%, [/b]79% turnout
Wilson/Callaghan (74): 39.3%, 73% turnout

Thatcher (79): 43.9%, 76% turnout
Thatcher (83): 42.4%. 73% turnout
Thatcher/Major (87): 42.2%, 75% turnout

Of course, not making any reference to previous posts but, it interesting to see who had the biggest, albeit not majority, share of votes and on relatively high turnouts in relation to recent events.

I'm not politically genned up enough to get deeply into this, so I'm going to respond to the thread title...

Yes I would think so - she was Prime Minister. Not a bad result for a career-minded lady 🙂

Interesting(ish) follow up.

I listened to the paper review on Sunday morning and there was an article mentioned about someones diaries being published. In them the author had said that Thatcher told him, with Dennis present, that she wished she'd never gone into politics because of the adverse effect it had had on her family.

Unfortunately, I didn't hear which paper this was in or whos diaries were being talked about either.

So, after 7 pages of pontificating and in-fighting;

I wonder if she thinks it was a life well lived.

The answer is 'No'

I'm not surprised really. The British public are a selfish and ungrateful bunch.

😀