[Closed] I wonder if she thinks it was a life well lived.

Dancing shoes awaiting polish - oh hold on, we did that thread and it didn't go well, did it 😈

MSP - if your right (?), I hope that historians are able to spell Aneu[b]rin[/b] Bev[b]an[/b] correctly!!!

You've still yet to enlighten us with her greatest achievement Hora?

Was it the deregulation of the City? And the re-balancing of the economy in favour of financial services? That went really well, I thought.

Clemment Attlee and Aneurian Beven are more significant politicians of the last century than Thatcher and Blair.

Possibly - and I'm not arguing otherwise - you could also include Lloyd George.

But who is the most likely to be remembered?

[i]I think you've all forgotten her greatest achievement.

[b]Some angry and bitter men who probably blame their lives and divorces on what she did during their childhood in the eighties?[/b]
[/i]

I'll add that these people see nothing wrong with sticking the knife into an elderly woman in the twilight of her life.

I believe, that she believed, at the time.
And so therefore, how can you blame someone for beleiving in something and trynig to make a difference.
In the manner that she did.
Of course, we all have the benefit of hindsight, [b]now[/b]...

As for alienation.
As we know, Maggy was assinated by the top brass for her views on Europe.
I'm staggered at how insightful she was on this matter and, all these years later.
I believe we're better off out of the Euro.

Its the only thing I agreed with Gordon on.
His 5 tests were never going to be met.
This was an accpetable way of kicking the UK's entry into the single currency.
Into the long grass.
Looking at recent events in Euro land.
I'm kinda glad we still have the GBP.

Have a dig at an old woman now, as she waits for god.
But also bare in mind what it makes you look like.
😉

[i]Was it the deregulation of the City? And the re-balancing of the economy in favour of financial services? That went really well, I thought.[/i]

Deliberate [b]Troll[/b], not worthy of a response.
🙄

Still reminds me off...

[img] [/img]

My Baroness Thatcher has changed since 1982, seen here at a press conference during the Falklands war.

[img] [/img]

I hope she gets to experience some NHS treatment under Tory rule.

[i]I'll add that these people see nothing wrong with sticking the knife into an elderly woman in the twilight of her life.[/i]

that's not fair, I've been making snidey comments about her since I was 15 in 1981.

I believe, that she believed, at the time.
And so therefore, how can you blame someone for beleiving in something and trynig to make a difference.
In the manner that she did.
Of course, we all have the benefit of hindsight, now...

Ahh, ok - so historical decisions, no matter how bad they look in hindsight, are actualy ok providing you believed it was the right thing to do at the time... 🙄

I can see that going down well at the International Criminal Court

Not worthy of response? Well you could always detail how pant-wettingly fantastically it all went then.

I'm not very bright, you see. I can only see whats in front of my eyes. And from where I'm standing it looks like an unmitigated ****ing disaster of biblical proportions! One that we're going to be paying for for generations. Oh.... all except the people who definitely won't be paying for it... the ones who caused it.

But do feel free to enlighten me with your evidence to the contrary

Teh damage that Thatchers governments did to the country is enormous and we are still paying now - the social damage from the deliberate policy of mas unemployment is huge apart from all the rest of it

You've still yet to enlighten us with her greatest achievement Hora?

Bliar led us into one counter-invasion and two invasions. Hes also a Millionaire and his wealth continues to grow. 100's of thousands have died as a direct consequence of his actions.

No one seems to vilify him.

binners - Member
You've still yet to enlighten us with her greatest achievement Hora?

Greatest achievement was to expose the true greed and hypocrisy of the "working classes"
Give "them" a sniff of a bit of property or share ownership and they'll vote you in for ever....

Of course, we all have the benefit of hindsight, now...

No one seems to vilify him.

are you absolutely sure of that?

No one seems to vilify him.

Erm.... are you sure about that? Have you been living in a cave for the last ten years?

No one seems to vilify him.

He's a **** *

Bliar...No one seems to vilify him.

lol

[img] [/img]

[img] ?w=600[/img]

Use google and type Tony Blair news. How many do you see of him blood all over him, murder of innocents, enrichment? in the top hits?

i think that as elderly person in the twilight of her life she has many experiences that we could all learn from.
she was focussed enough to secure the first female leadership of a political party in this country ( only repeated once nationally since) and she was our first and to date only female prime minister. a considerable achievement to day never mind 30 years ago.
she had clear goals in mind and a vision for the country she persuaded the electorate to share that view and she was re-elected to continue that journey again something all politians would envy.
during her period in office the country changed, from a bankrupt dinosuar into a cutting edge leading european nation.
How and the way that all happened people will discuss for decades but 20 years on the country is in a better place for her period in office than it would have been if old Micheal Foot had had his 15 years of fame.
Tony Blair then squandered that leagacy with the most self serving Govt the country has ever had and Gordon ( where are you?) Brown pissed what remained up the wall.

No one seems to vilify him.

are you absolutely sure of that?

Blair is an odd one. There are certainly sections of the population taht villify Blair over his US wars. In the main I'd say that his reputation is largely "in tatters", rather than being villified.

The New Labour govt achieved a lot that is to bee applauded in it's first term *, yet Blair will be remembered for his shallowness - foreign wars, his argumnets with Brown (refuted at the time, since corroborated), completely untrustworthy smile and bullshit glib PR shiny answers. For this he is disrespected, rather than hated.

Thatcher is totally different in comparison. A sizeable part of the population still idolise her (none idolise Blair...?). The rest still revile her

ETA * I think most look back on the 1997 Govt and acknowledge that big changes have been made reagrding tolerance and how Brits view themselves and each other.

Have you learnt to use Google then. Well done you! Can you find us a graph to chart the relative unpopularity of Blair or Thatcher?

GO on. You can do it. Think of it as a little project for the afternoon

You know, there [i][b]are[/b][/i] better uses for google 8)

cutting edge leading european nation.

with a massive bleeding hole in it that has never been repaired.

The deliberate policy of mass unemployment caused such damage to society and it has not healed yet. Hopelessness, metal health problems, drug abuse. The rotting sore that is the ghettos for the poor.

cutting edge leading european nation.

Ehhh - I must have dozed off... when was that?

Have you got round the parental controls? I'll have to reset those later, I think

Binners

Her greatest achievement - easy, ridding us of the nightmare of 1970s Britain
Her greatest failure - replacing one set of extremes with another, but probably hard to see how should could have done otherwise

Tackles: 1970s rampant inflation, excess union power, excess welfare state, over-reliance of Keynesian economic (Stop-Go cycle), IMF bailout

But leaves us with: Hayek's "Constitution of Liberty" taken to its extreme, and over-reliance on Monetarism, the Miners Strike, turning self-reliance into "no-such thing as society", over-reliance of market-based solutions and privatisation

Subsequent politicians then took the good parts and rejected the excesses leading to New Labour and Mandlesson's infamous line, "we are all Thatcherites now." Oh, and then who created the unbalanced economy with excess concentration on financial services and the Public Sector? Hmmm....remind me?

Hora.

Its no use.

I forget that this place is massively subscribed to by lefties.

They'll not see sense and will blindly continue on their current path.

Sensible political debate is impossible in this place.

According to TJ's logic, WIlliam the conqueror has a lot to answer for.
🙄

Binners just loves to hate and overlooks that if Maggy did hold the top-spot during a relaxtion of the rules which were once designed to prevent the recent economic turmoil.
She did so as a member of successive premiers on both sides of the pond, who perhaps had other issues at the top of their agendas.
IIRC, Gordon was quite chummy with his mates in the City, but I see no mention of that here, for the obvious reason that it detracts from binners argument against Maggy.
Binners. Go away and read abit on recent political history.
Then you may return.
When you have something constructive and intelligent to add.
I'd offer TJ the same advise, but he's past changing or caring and is a dyed in the wool lefty, or whatever he chooses to call it.

[i]I can see that going down well at the International Criminal Court [/i]
Right oh then !....
In your mind, Maggy should be on trial at the ICC ?...
RRrriiiiieeet.
😯

Her greatest achievement - easy, ridding us of the nightmare of 1970s Britain
Her greatest failure - replacing one set of extremes with another, but probably hard to see how should could have done otherwise

Tackles: 1970s rampant inflation, excess union power, excess welfare state, over-reliance of Keynesian economic (Stop-Go cycle)

But leaves us with: Hayek's "Constitution of Liberty" taken to its extreme, and over-reliance on Monetarism, the Miners Strike, turning self-reliance into "no-such thing as society", over-reliance of market-based solutions and privatisation

Subsequent politicians then took the good parts and rejected the excesses leading to New Labour and Mandlesson's infamous line, "we are all Thatcherites now." Oh, and then who created the unbalanced economy with excess concentration on financial services and the Public Sector? Hmmm....remind me?

Which can be simplified to:

"Pursued political idealology beyond pragmatic necessity"

Which is what is so depressing about most / all politicians...

bruneep, never, [i]ever [/i]post another Terrahawks picture again without warning. I still have nightmares, you [i]monster[/i]!

Anyway, fan or foe. When she dies it'll be a sad day. I was neither a fan or foe. I just admired how she rose up in a male-dominated world.

That is unless you are one of those weird folk who wish ill on all and sundry?

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Get her!

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Solo - so the deliberate policy of mass unemployment she pursued did not do massive damage to society?

BTW - this place is full of right wingers not lefties.

You guys ever consider that the world isnt black and white, good and evil? I watched the Benitio del Toro biopics of Che Guevara over the weekend. The guy was a fanatic Stalinist and loved organising a firing squad, but it is impossible not to admire the extraordinary gifts the man had. And he wasnt wrong about everything and neither was Thatcher.

I did try and start the thread about how she might view where her life took her and what she might feel about it (dimentia notwithstanding) - I think, more than Blair etc, that she polarizes opinion - it does become black and white.

Which can be simplified to: "Pursued political idealology beyond pragmatic necessity". Which is what is so depressing about most / all politicians...

Very possibly but (1) change is often hard without dramatic breakdowns, (2) society and knowledge follows the same pattern of thesis, antithesis, synthesis and repeat. Perhaps politics and economics was merely following this well trodden path at the time?

Binners. Go away and read abit on recent political history.

Are your opinions based on history books then?, or first hand experience?

I can see that going down well at the International Criminal Court
Right oh then !....
In your mind, Maggy should be on trial at the ICC ?...
RRrriiiiieeet.

Don't be an absolute plank

It all depends which end of her policies you were on. I, like most in the North West of England, got the pointy end. It wasn't a nice place to be.

I understand if you were stockbroker from Surrey, your opinion might differ somewhat

Use google and type Tony Blair news. How many do you see of him blood all over him, murder of innocents, enrichment? in the top hits?

- an article in the Telegraph about his vast personal fortune, tax minimisation and representation of oligarchs and oppressive governments: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/tony-blair/9136126/Tony-Blair-expands-his-African-empire-into-mineral-rich-Guinea.html

- a test of anti-plagiarism software based on a Queen Mary Uni set essay on the topic of "Did Tony Blair lie in making the case for military action in Iraq?": http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2012/03/18/that-third-class-essay-in-full/

- a story about the sale of dodgy Geoffrey Robertson's villa in which Blair repeatedly stayed, earning him (according to the Telegraph) the nickname "Tuscan Tony": http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertynews/9137006/Tuscan-villa-favoured-by-Tony-Blair-put-up-for-sale.html

[img] [/img]

TandemJeremy - Member: BTW - this place is full of right wingers not lefties.

Funny that, especially as they post so rarely. Hard at work and no time to post perhaps?

Very possibly but (1) change is often hard without dramatic breakdowns, (2) society and knowledge follows the same pattern of thesis, antithesis, synthesis and repeat. Perhaps politics and economics was merely following this well trodden path at the time?

I've no argument against the need for dramatic change, and it was certainly needed in the late 70s. My argument is against the pursuit of a particular goal purely because of political dogma. once the medicine has worked, stop taking it - unless of course you benefit from the sale of the medicine 😉

rkk01 - then we agree!

When she dies it'll be a sad day. I was neither a fan or foe. I just admired how she rose up in a male-dominated world.