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Lord Sugar at his most pompus but true or false?
IMHO more rubbish to boost the ratings of the Apprentice ...hardly a good role model for Britain when were trying to move past a finacial services driven econmy.
So who's with Al?
I reckon he's finally lost the plot!
Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Sergy Brin, Steve Jobs, Larry Page, Mark Zuckerberg, they're all a bit more successful than old greybeard I fancy.
He didn't say they don't exist, he said he's never come across one.
Hardly pompous.
It is if thats your sole reason for firing someone.
'The iPod will be dead, finished, gone, kaput.'
— Sir Alan Sugar, February 2005
No, but he's got enough experience to know better than to make such a sweeping generalistion and that for a succesful economy, you need more than just finance and call-centres to prop the country up.
Patently false.
What is this 'ipod' you speak of?
he's a prick. i don't think we should worry too much about his opinion.
I come across plenty of engineers who are doing just fine!
Bill Gates, Larry Ellison, Sergy Brin, Steve Jobs, Larry Page, Mark Zuckerberg, they're all a bit more successful than old greybeard I fancy.
Maybe because I haven't read the article, but I would ask, which of them is an engineer?
He fired the wrong person, at least Glen had some genuinely positive inputs over the last few weeks, unlike that girl with the ironed face or the Swedish guy.
Annoyingly I quite like The Apprentice, if only cos I can't quite believe that people like that actually exist.
The comments in that Telegraph article linked to above are pretty telling though. As a (chemical) engineer I've experienced first hand the utterly incompetent managers who could do all the management talk, who had degrees in business studies and management yet didn't have the faintest bloody clue about the job we actually did. Equally some of the chemists who had risen through the ranks to be lab managers etc really weren't great at management either so Sugar's comments have a grain of truth to them...
Jim, heck of a salesman but does he have any other qualities? Certainly seemed lacking in commercial acumen. The wrong man got binned.
Maybe because I haven't read the article, but I would ask, which of them is an engineer?
Steve Jobs and Bill Gates were engineers - Software Engineers.
CaptainFlashHeart they all started as engineers, engineering things that turned into Google, Oracle, Microsoft, and a little known site known as "the face book". Might as well include Tim Berners-Lee too, he invented The Internet.
crazy-legs: What we need to distinguish here are between technicians and engineers. Technicians being those that can do the techy stuff only.
If your a proffessional engineer (i.e. Chartered Engineer) then you really do need to be more rounded. And that is the main problem with engineering as a profession. There is no clear divide between the 'Engineer' and the 'Technician'.
Can't say there's a stand-out candidate on this years Apprentice, they all seem a bit weak.
And this bloke made a few quid out of engineering!....
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Software Engineers.
Ah, I see. Not real engineers then. Thanks for clarification.
As the OP said - nonsense to boost ratings. I'm no expert on engineering or business, but it only takes minutes to think of examples - Dyson is the obvious one.
I work closely with - maybe - 25 good engineers
Taking any of them to a customer meeting is probably the most stressful part of my job [I have a tech background too]
You just don't know what they'll say next
😀
More interestingly, have any businessmen ever turned out to be good at engineering? I remember something about Lyons the the top guy at Jaguar being heavily involved in the design of the cars in the 50's and 60's, but I am not sure of his background and if he may have been an engineer before moving into management.
As someone who works as an engineer I'm inclined to say "so what". They are different skill sets although to use it as the sole excuse to "fire" someone from that TV reeks of prejudice.
Oh and Sir Tim Berners-Lee didn't invent the internet, and he wasn't/isn't an engineer.
Taking any of them to a customer meeting is probably the most stressful part of my job [I have a tech background too]
You just don't know what they'll say next
The truth most likely, which may or may not be what you want your customers to hear. 😉
Yes none of it is real
Steve Jobs and Bill Gates were engineers - Software Engineers
Lets all play nice - that can of worms has been kicked to death on here before 🙂
If your a proffessional engineer (i.e. Chartered Engineer) then you really do need to be more rounded. And that is the main problem with engineering as a profession. There is no clear divide between the 'Engineer' and the 'Technician'.
...[s]I agree[/s] see above (and don't get me started on chartered status again!)....
And this bloke made a few quid out of engineering!....
Technically brilliant, but as a business man he was severely lacking!
Anywho, the only thing about Lard Sugar worth a damn is his collection of expensive Italian road bikes 🙂
Ah, I see. Not real engineers then. Thanks for clarification.
Don't talk shite.
gonefishin - MemberAs someone who works as an engineer I'm inclined to say "so what". They are different skill sets although to use it as the sole excuse to "fire" someone from that TV reeks of prejudice.
Oh and Sir Tim Berners-Lee didn't invent the internet, and he wasn't/isn't an engineer.
gonefishin you should tell the Royal Academy of Engineering they've made a mistake
Berners-Lee invented the world wide web not the internet.
Dyson is the obvious one.
Artist/furniture designer - more arty than engineering methinks.
Don't talk shite.
Is that directed STW at large?
Glen claimed he was a 'Design Engineer'. I had the same job title at my ex-job. I neither engineered, nor designed, and I certainly didn't have his arrogance. Glad he got the boot TBH!
Anyone want to call me not a proper engineer, I'll rip their nipples off.
Well his degree is in Physics and as far as I can find out his membership of the IEEE is honourary so I'm still inclined to say not and engineer.
WAAAAAAaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy smarter than me though.
Software Engineers.Ah, I see. Not real engineers then. Thanks for clarification.
Well I spend my days working on a PC as an engineer designing things. Whether that's sizing the orifice in a relief valve or writing some code to make my life easier they're both engineering.
You're thinking welding, spanner monkeys in the local garrage, the elctrician who wired your house, etc, which as someone up there said, are better classed as technicians not engineers.
Whether that's sizing the orifice
*s*****
Surely every car manufacturer in existence was founded by an engineer of some kind?
Aerospace companies
Civil Engineering/Construction Companies
etc etc??
VW was founded by a soldier - a British one.
Well I spend my days working on a PC as an engineer designing things. Whether that's sizing the orifice in a relief valve or writing some code to make my life easier they're both engineering
Yeah, but you are applying the principals of strucural analysis/solid mechanics/materials science/thermodynamics/fluid dynamics/etc that are the key features of any engineering degree, using software as a means to an end - software engineering is something different, and of it's own right, that has (unfortunately, IMO) adopted 'engineering' as part of the description.
Every "real" engineer I've ever met has been a massive old grump with a big chip on their shoulder, and thinks that the world owes them a living. Maybe it's because most of the "real" engineering work these days is done by Indian contractors at a third of the cost; I'd be bitter too.
There's a woman on this year's show who's doing a superb job of channeling David Brent. It's a lad's mag yeah?, for lad's who've got a bit of dollar yeah? Does that sound boring - I don't know. Just an idea yeah?
Would be good to see Alan hit her in the head with a pickaxe, but I'd settle for a firing.
Helen should win because she's fit
end of
Artist/furniture designer - more arty than engineering methinks.
you don't know ANYTHING about James Dyson then.
He is very much an engineer - hence the very engineered look of his cleaning products. not really product designed in a styling sense. pure function over form
software engineering is something different, and of it's own right, that has (unfortunately, IMO) adopted 'engineering' as part of the description
Why? Cos it's easier? Cos there's no greasy fingers involved?
It's different, but then building bridges is different to making engines and they are both done by engineers.
Technician - follows instructions to get something fixed... like a car repair manual, or guide on how to install some software.
Engineer - has the ability to think creatively when the above doesn't work. i.e. milling a part to fix the car, or hacking the registry to enable the software installation. The engineer actually designs a solution for the problem.
That's the difference IMHO between technicians and engineers. And yes, 'software engineers' are engineers to me..... low level 'programmers' would be technicians, who aren't required to think per-se.
you don't know ANYTHING about James Dyson then.
He is very much an engineer - hence the very engineered look of his cleaning products. not really product designed in a styling sense. pure function over form
I think you'll find I know a fair bit about him and he didn't "design" any of it, all the stuff after the first prototype was the product of his employee's (product designers), and he isn't an engineer he is an arts graduate. He would not and could not call to mind any fluid dynamics/structural/materials engineering as he does not know or use any.
I'm not dissing him, I'm just pointing out that he is in no way an engineer so he doesn't fit the bill to refute Sugar's assertion.
In fact your assertion that his stuff "looks" very engineered just proves that he is a product designer, capable of capturing the Zeitgeist and making people think that his stuff works just by how it looks.
There are few programmers who just bash out simple code based on full and complete specs.
Part of the problem with Software Engineering is that it's not treated rigorously by those paying for it and many of those who actually do it.
Which is why so much software is so sht.