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swivel-eyed right wing idealogues like the good Captain F.
Eh? What? Erm, no, actually. Never mind, though.
Anyway, back on track, where is the OP? What happened? A forum awaits!
We've been had.
Coyote- was "your friend" also told you cannot discuss or even mention this to anyone except your partner or it is all off, oh and give you a budget for legal advice? Mine was a few years ago so am not too worried about mentioning it 🙂
FFS, I read all that for this....
this is worse than the stolen mojo thread....
Although the whisky chart was good...
Actually, didn't the OP say he was out on the lash regardless of the outcome?
"He" was indeed Mr. Tracker1972, he was.
you dont just abandon a thread if your the OP, we should have our own meeting with him to discuss this in....
I think he's being held for ransom by Somali pirates...
is that as far as we are???
I thought there would be something by page 5. I'm going to see if anything has happened in the news that may be related
BUSHWACKED!!!!!!??????????????
If what happened to the OP is the same as what happened to "my friend" then he may be in a state of shock and some distress. "He" had been there for 14 years and it came right out of the blue. The way "he" was dealt with was very cold and cynical, but obviously "he" is not allowed to speak about it...
[i]If what happened to the OP is the same as what happened to "my friend" then he may be in a state of shock and some distress. [/i]
Surely the FIRST thing that people do in that situation is pour their heart out to Singletrack?! It's happened many times before on many memorable threads so where the hell is Bushwhacked now? Very slack of him - if he was this slack at work, I'd have fired him too!
He's having dinner, be patient..
Oh yeah, cos there's such a great history of corporate accountability and embracing the law in, um, everywhere.
Mate you really need to learn the art of nuance. I said not being unconcerned about the law means the law doesn't apply to you. I didn't say that this would then hold everyone to the law.
The law needs to be upheld and if broken it can be thus upheld. That is the point of the rule of law. It's first priority is to act to keep people within in it bounds; it's second is to provide justice when that fails.
Perhaps we need to call him into the office tomorrow and speak to him about his behaviour.
Well he hasnt defected to bike radar as yet.
I reckon bushwacked's boss & HR officer have done away with him.
I reckon he's been summond to head office HR for a breakfast meeting first thing tomorrow.
Nah - I'm here! Went biking with Jedi after getting the news and just got home. Good to have a distraction! 🙂
Basically went to London, 3.5 hour drive and they read a letter out saying my role is being proposed to be made redundant. Why the F*** they couldn't tell me over the phone I don't know!!
Next step is to meet them and discuss something but they've not really explained the process. So I don't really know what is happening. Out of my team of 5 sales managers, I'm the only one being made redundant - work that one out!
I reckon bushwacked's boss & HR officer have done away with him
Or he's tied them to their chairs, doused them in petrol and is currently skipping round them in his underwear with his tie round his head cackling like a hag and brandishing a zippo...
.
.
[edit] Do'h! Not quick enough!
Basically went to London, 3.5 hour drive and they read a letter out saying my role is being proposed to be made redundant. Why to F*** they couldn't tell me over the phone I done know!!
Sorry to hear that Barney.
But yeah, that's what happened with me recently too... Questioned why they couldn't tell me over the phone too! I ended up having to go to our head office and back 4 times in the end, for meetings that lasted less than 10 minutes each time, a 200 mile round trip I might add... At least they were paying for it though at 40p per mile, the only upside to the whole affair I might add!
You and me BOTH got plenty more riding time now by the sounds of things...
Speaking of which, lookmanohands asked me if I fancy a ride down Cheltenham way on Thursday at some point... Fancy it?
Coyote - tempting, in fact when I parked the car up and got my bag out the boot, I noticed my mattock in there from trailbuilding and was tempted to take that to the meeting 😉
what industry are you in??
Bushwacked at least you and us know now whats happening.
Do the others have the same role? Redundancy needs to be done fairly and you don't make people redundant you make positions redundant.
If 5 people have the same role and one position needs to go you need a fair and transparent process as to why one person is picked.
Mboy - thursday would be good but I have a 200 mile round trip to do for a 10 minute meeting 😉
Out of my team of 5 sales managers, I'm the only one being made redundant - work that one out!
At this point you should be questioning why your post is the one that has been chosen. Are all five of you doing the same job? They can't actually make a person redundant (technically). They can only make a job redundant, so if all 5 of you are doing the same job, it would be wrong of them to single you out. I might be talking out of my @rse here, but even with a good redundancy package etc. that could well be bordering on constructive dismissal.
Talk to someone who knows the ins and outs of employment law, then make sure they do everything properly, down to the letter.
Good luck, and don't start burning bridges until it's all over...
What TJ saod if you all do the same function [ areas is neither here or there if you all do sales the you do the same job] then they need to do a consultation process, interviews, appraisals etc,. A union rep would be on their case ...sorry no actually the employer are acting in your best interests apparently as they are free to do so
The redundancy selection criteria arrived at should be objective wherever possible, precisely defined and capable of being applied in an independent way. This is to ensure that the process is conducted fairly. The chosen criteria should be consistently applied by all employers, irrespective of size. There should also be an appeals procedure.Examples of such criteria:
•attendance record (if this is fully accurate and reasons for and extent of absence are known)
•disciplinary record (if this is fully accurate)
•skills or experience
•standard of work performance
•aptitude for work
See here
http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1611
Sorry to here your news hope it all works out for you my e-mail in profile if you want advice from a Union dinosaur
Last in first out,
Poor timekeeping,
Poor work record,
Manager doesnt like you,
Throwing darts at your teams pictures and you got the dart,
as for fair etc, nothing is fair in redundancy.
Mboy - thursday would be good but I have a 200 mile round trip to do for a 10 minute meeting
LOL
Sorry mate, the irony eh! 😕
Have fun, and make sure you manage to put as many things as you possibly can on your expenses before you go, and ALWAYS take the long route to wherever you're going... 😉
We are all client sales manager, just have different customers. They are saying they are making the role supporting my customer redundant - although one of my colleauges will take over the job of looking after them.
Barney, sorry to hear your news, i could drag you out on a monday morning for a bimble....
Get real advice. On the surface that sounds unfair.
Drop me a pm I do sales recruitment and may have a way to help.
Bimble would be good, but have to take a customer out in Leeds for dinner (one appointment I'm not going to miss since the company are paying)
Bummer...
Sorry to here about that, but know how you feel at the moment..
some one else for the stw jobless club.. 😥
They are saying they are making the role supporting my customer redundant - although one of my colleauges will take over the job of looking after them.
Is there any reason why you could not take over your colleague's customers, and make him redundant? If clients are transferable between sales managers on the same level, there's no reason for them to single you out.
As I said, get some legal advice. It may even be worth bringing a solicitor along to your next meeting, as you are entitled to do, just so that they can make sure you're not getting shafted for the wrong reason.
Any monday, whenever it suits you..
Right off to bed - been up since 3am - will post more details in the morning.
Having just been through this
Get informed from ACAS, their help line is brilliant.
Find a good colleague to go into the meetings, you talk and think, they write and support.
Prepare with your colleague.
Have a "win the war, not the battle approach".
Make sure the legal process is followed (ACAS again).
Be careful with compromise agreements in the longer term re your status post end of job
Keep onside with your soon to be ex employer, you may be back contracting for them!
If you have redundancy insurance make sure they make you redundant and avoid any use of the word "voluntary" in anything written.
I got skittled by the working away from the office scenario (your 200 miles away, right?). Look to performance appraisals, agreements or whatever with your employer if they sanctioned this....
email me if you need any more help... ricDOTandreaATtalktalkDOTnet
Chin Up....
Davy - my thoughts too!!
Goz - It could be a long running thing 😉
Take advice, make notes, take a witness, document everything.
Good luck
[url= http://http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/index/your_money/employment/redundancy___an_introduction/redundancy___procedures_your_employer_must_follow.htm ]Citizen's advice[/url]
[url= http://http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/RedundancyAndLeavingYourJob/index.htm ]Goverment info[/url]
Hi Bushwacked
Basically with most companies they will have decided that you are the one they want to let go - for whatever reason - logical or illogical - and they will play the rules to get their way. The power in this situation isn't in your hands. Usually in Sales the reason they give is the bottom line. Check your figures ASAP.
I reckon that you just have to get the best possible outcome if they really want you out and move on.
My advice would be to get all your sales info and also
the person whom is to take over your position/client.
And then look for legal advice and go from there as if your redundant
then so is that role within the company.
Bushwacked, sorry to hear you're going through this, I had it late last year, it was and continues to be f*cking horrible - though I am starting a great new job in the new year, after 13 months unemployed!
2 points worth remembering - your company is legally obliged to either provide you with a lawyer or the funds (up to a reasonable cap) to source your own.
Any redundancy type agreement carries no legal standing unless ratified, or perhaps even countersigned, by a solicitor.
Secondly, any settlement should have the first £30k tax free. You'll be made to take the risk on this - I was, and this is relatively common. But it's not a magnanimous gesture on their part - it's how the govt. has structured the payout.
I took advice from a HR lawyer friend who advised that companies never pay out out of the goodness of their hearts, they pay out because they fall foul of particularly prescriptive due dilligence type procedures and are concerned about the implications should these failures be proven.
I did alot of work on this during the process, gave them a real grilling and did very well for it. The trick seems to be letting them think you're reasonably serious about going the distance and are firm on your convictions, without them thinking you're an emotional nutter who is out for blood, will never be happy and who would as easily be dealt with in a tribunal.
Previous posters have all made very fair points re; the selection pool. If you are one of 5 who effectively do the same job, then all 5 should be pooled and may the best man/woman win thereafter. It's only if you're in a niche area, or perhaps your particlar customer base has dried up that you could be legally considered to be in a pool of one. Demand to see their selection criteria, esp. why your colleagues aren't pooled with you.
Don't be pressurised into answers / undertakings in the meeting(s). The process is designed to answer your questions (within reason), so make them answer each and every one to your satisfaction.
If you're in a pool of one (I was), I sadly suspect you're not so much as fighting your corner as negotiating the terms of your exit. Give them hell over it though. It could be financially worth your while.
Proving they haven't adhered to the process is (in my) opinion absolutely key.
Col.