[Closed] HOWWWWWW MUCH?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mate, in exactly the same place. Our wall has just come down so we are in the process of getting quotes, designs, ideas etc.. This will be the last part of the house to be done (gutted the whole gaff over the last 3 months) and I will project manage it. Yes, you'll get some company in who 'claim' it will all be done exact to spec, daily updates etc.. My arse, they are idiots so micromanage them. Don't try to get one company to do all of it and subcontract out the bits they don't do, use point excellence company, trades and manage them yourself.

I clicked this link thinking it was going to be an amusing story about your OH's reaction to a new bike purchase. Now I feel slightly robbed.

Also dont forget that plinth bases the bits that hide the leggs, are just contiboard, available from B and Q just need 6 inch wide and cut to size, both toolstaion and screwfix sell the door soft closers.

Howdens also sell kitchens ready built units, but expect quite a few bits not to turn up, and doors not to be available, oh and they seem to charge for every screw etc, all nicely itemised on the bill.

Yes, you'll get some company in who 'claim' it will all be done exact to spec, daily updates etc.. My arse, they are idiots so micromanage them

We're a bit wise to this. We have luckily found a brilliant sparky and plumber, and I've got a chippy working on the stairs on Friday (New bannister) and a mate works with a good plasterer, so I think we've got it all covered by now. I'd rather give my money direct to a local tradesman.
The kitched companies are on about £4000+ for installation (plus worktops). And it's just making flat pack furniture and screwing it to the walls FFS.

Don't, whatever you do, go with Moben. Rip-off merchants extraordinaire. We had a quote from them about seven years ago, to refit a 10' square-ish kitchen. So, he came round to measure up and 'design' the kitchen and came up with a quote of £8000.

"Haven't you got a half price sale on?" I asked

"Yes" he said "that's the sale price".

"Bye", I said.

I was knocked off my bike by someone who worked in Homebase kitchens.

They're all evil.

I hear ya....... Well trying to find a good kitchen supplier is difficult. You'll see I started a thread about this ages ago and still not made our minds up yet, we got a fairly healthy ~12-15k budget but some of these jokers are after stupid money, and the kitchen isn't even massive.

It costs a few grand just for slab of marble.

Back in '88 my Mum's kitchen was 8 grand in a sale.
Now I would expect to pay £20K

Not cheap!

Maybe a buy a book -kitchen building for dummies as even though you pay loads the fitter does a naff job!

Still would cost loads for the material.

It costs a few grand just for slab of marble.

So don't use marble. Or bypass all the middlemen!

Corian is most expensive, but not the best (It scratches and can melt)
Wood needs a lot of care, and is no good for icing wedding cakes as the texture of the wood ends up on your icing.
Granite is slightly pourus.
The current best performing kitchen worktop is Quartz, according to the industry.
£4-5k fitted for our kitchen if you listen to the kitchen companies. About £2.5k if you don't.......

we got a fairly healthy ~12-15k budget but some of these jokers are after stupid money, and the kitchen isn't even massive.

From what I've learned you could probably half that if you do your homework, and fit the units yourselves.
If you can make up flat pack furniture and possess a spirit level, pencil and a drill, then you can fit kitchen units. I did so in our last house. 🙂

Brother in-law works for a bespoke kitchen company designing kitchens and they charge tens of thousands of pounds to build and fit a kitchen. Anyway for my parents we got a kitchen from Ikea. Seemed the best price and the quality was good, according to him. All drawers are soft close and soft close doohikeys can be added to the door hinges for a couple of quid each door.

Only issue we had was that there is no space behind the units to run pipes etc, but we we were re-jigging the plumbing anyway so not an issue. I'd recommend them. Plus their software for working out units etc was useful for me. If you do pay someone else to install it just get them in to level off the floor units and fit the worktop. Need a jig, and router, which you can get from screewfix but it was a real fag of a job. Certainly glad the Bro' in-law was there to-do it. 🙂

Have you looked at IKEA kitchens?

I think my sis got her kitchen from there, it seems good quality & I am pretty sure she said it was pretty good value compared to others that she looked at.

I think what we're going to do is use the money we'll save by being careful (As in my OP) and fitting it ourselves, and spend it on quartz worktops and a new fridge. There's already a near top of the range Neff oven going in, but the expensive hobs are pointless, so that'll be a base model. Mrs PP needs a good oven. She really does. I wouldn't skimp on that. 🙂

Haven't read the thread, so apologies, but you can buy little soft close dampers that you retrofit to the normal units in a jiffy and they work well and cost but a few quid 🙂

Me and the missus did the kitchen in our old house and this one too.
Plan it out on squared paper to scale and away you go.

Only the usual diy stuff like electrics and plumbing, bit of tiling and save a fortune

Had enough of crap workmen in my houses over the years and far more satisfying doing it yourself. Did all the new UPVC windows too, very simple and surprisingly cheap when ordered direct, yet again measure up properly

Buy decent tools though, makes a world of difference and once bought should last for years

Kitchens are a fashion item, so you get screwed on them.

At the price of fitted units you could instead get a bigger room for kitchen duties and use furniture for storage eg Welsh dressers etc.

I reckon for the price of a "good" kitchen you could eat out for a few years. Then it would be time to replace the kitchen again, so you could continue to eat out. Eventually the no-kitchen would become fashionable.

Molgrops, nail square on the head mate! 🙂

TT - We decided to get a second/third/fourth opinion on it becasue we needed to chage the layout. One lot made it worse, 2 made it better. It looks like we're combining the 2 better plans for the finished product. 🙂

Kitchens are a fashion item, so you get screwed on them.

At the price of fitted units you could instead get a bigger room for kitchen duties and use furniture for storage eg Welsh dressers etc.

I reckon for the price of a "good" kitchen you could eat out for a few years. Then it would be time to replace the kitchen again, so you could continue to eat out. Eventually the no-kitchen would become fashionable.

Only if you chose to be taken in by the fashions and/or fit cheap stuff.

And the 'eating out' is utterly missing the point. I realise most people want a flash kitchen like they want a flash car: To show off with, but never use it. But Mrs PP cooks a LOT. And makes wedding cakes. So she needs a kitchen, and a good one at that to work in. So, to get vlause for money, we spend the money where it's needed - Quality oven for example. And on hardwearing wooden doors and worktops in classic colours which will last under a lot of use, and still look good in 10-15 years.
For instance - People love glass inserts on doors - Fine for showing your posh crockery and glases, but useless when the contents are jars of spices and packets of flour. Who wants to see those? And clean flour off the glass?
So we reckon glass is for people that don't cook. We need a lot of storage space for ingredients and stuff like the big catering quality Kenwood mixer. It's not pretty, but it's been working for 30 years and gets used a lot. Not everyone has those requirements.
This is why we can't have wooden worktops or dressers as you suggest - You can't roll smooth icing on wood! 🙂

my new wife wants a new kitchen, what she's getting is some new tiles and a new worktop, fitted by me.
.
anyone know any issues with retrofitting a new worktop to an existing kitchen?

We keep that much crap in our kitchen drawers that they never shut anyway!

anyone know any issues with retrofitting a new worktop to an existing kitchen?

No, not at all. It should be pretty easy. Levelling the units is the tricky part IME. 🙂

I can give you a few tips if you want them though?

Stainless steel FTW!

[img] [/img]

Stainless? Yes please. I have a stainless steel fetish. Love the stuff!

Not at home though. Although I might try and convince her to get a stainless splashback for the hob, and the sink, tap, hob, oven and fridge will all be stainless. 🙂

Oh, and the handles.

And all our pans are stainless. (11 years old and like new)

And the Dualit stuff is too.....

I reckon for the price of a "good" kitchen you could eat out for a few years. Then it would be time to replace the kitchen again, so you could continue to eat out. Eventually the no-kitchen would become fashionable.

A hospital round the corner from us was redeveloped into a s****y housing estate. Free one Sunday, Mrs North and I went for a nosey. The first "townhouse" (terrace to you and me) had a tiny kitchen. Mrs North asked "where do you fit the washing machine?". "Don't know," was the reply. "You'd have to remove one of the units."

"But then there wouldn't anywhere to store food," said Mrs North.

To which the response was (and could only have been):

"Ah, but there are loads of restaurants in the area. People who live here eat out all the time."

It's like the infamous "free money" idea of interest free credit. Twuntish estate agents.

Did you promptly turn one out (pinch one out, crimp one off) on the floor and say: 'Well the people round here will surely have cleaners'? Probably not but hope so.

we spend the money where it's needed - Quality oven for example.

Like a..

Neff oven

Nah. Shoulda got a Britannia range like Mrs North bought when we did our kitchen... 😀

Did you promptly turn one out (pinch one out, crimp one off) on the floor and say: 'Well the people round here will surely have cleaners'? Probably not but hope so.

Sadly not. We just looked at each other, laughed rather too loudly and walked off.

like Mrs North bought when we did our kitchen

Tom, you [i]really[/i] don't want to do that. 😯

It's OK. You've probably got a better baby-stroller that converts into a car seat.

ikea sell the 'soft close' things as an extra (ie not built into the cupboard). they're £5 a pair. Personally, I'd highly reccomend an ikea kitchen - i've nothing to compare it with but it went together very easily and the wood worktops are bonkers cheap

you can't take anything homebase at full price. Due to their highly regular sales, I'd not buy at less than 60% off full rrp.

PP said:

can give you a few tips if you want them though?

if you have the time, that would be great!

.
anyone know any issues with retrofitting a new worktop to an existing kitchen?

None at all, just make sure you have a good jigsaw with decent blades

OMITN - Spot on mate! We lookd at 3-4 new houses. They have huge big lounge/diners and poxy little kitchen/breakfast rooms.

And when you look closer, the lounge/diner won't be big enough for a proper dining table, only the tiny 'cafe' table they have on show in there. And the kitchen has a dishwasher, fridge, freezer etc, but no cupboard space. We looked at a 4 bed detached that actually had no more kitchen space/units than out 60s 2 bed terrace (I counted the units up and it had the same number, but one had a dishwasher inside it)

Our conclusion was the same as you it seems - They expect everyone to eat takeaways or frozen ready meals sitting in front of the TV. The kitchens are useless as a result.

And don't get me started on garages and en-suite bathrooms! Ohhhh! Blood boiling! 😉

That's why we bought another ex-council house where the last owner had built an effing great big garage on the side of it, which was big enough to put is car in and have is motorbikes down the side too! 🙂

promptly turn one out (pinch one out, crimp one off) on the floor

Then smear it all over the place in a Dirty Protest. On arrest, you could justify it with 'well what with the huge increase in the price of hummus at Waitrose, we felt we simply had to make a stand'.

Trust me, you'll get let off.

I'd stay away from B&Q, Wickes & Homebase etc. Sister in law had one from B&Q wich had missing parts, wrong parts, broken parts!!! nightmare to deal with on after care too. Ikea kitchens are cheap & cheerful and about 1/4 of the cost, I installed my own kitchen (1st one) and it was simple. Ikea have a good free online design package too. Just remember to get the work surface profesionally fitted.

You've probably got a better baby-stroller that converts into a car seat.

I think it cost more than any bike I own....

Cast-in-situ concrete kitchens. This is the future. Look out for me on Dragons Den with this one.

if your looking for a really good quality kitchen try woodfit really good quality and bits and pieces to fit all the different size spaces that can be left over, as for worktops try (sorry dont know how to linky) kitchen-worktop-direct.co.uk. My sister recently got a marble worktop, 4.5m total length all cut outs, edges, templated and fitted for £1600ish, I was surprised how chaep and well fitted they were. I know you said you were after quartz, Im sure I remember they supplied them also

Don't use any of the big sheds unless you want a cheap kitchen or be ripped off comparatively

Find a good local craftsman and get a Howdens Kitchen, 18mm rigid carcase that will give the option of 'normal' or softclose doors and drawers or if you want the cheaper damper option they can do that too.

I have been out of the industry for a couple of years but still know quite a few very good fitters in the midlands area, and Howdens will send someone to see you for design purposes (free service)

Oh and btw somone above mentioned quartz worktops above being the bees knees, dont be so sure as quatz is porous which means it can absorb and hold germs/moisture, most worktops have some element of trade off and tbh you cant go too wrong with a good quality laminate (6 layers or more)

Haven't read all the thread, it grew too quickly!
Homebase did our kitchen and they did a very good job. No complaints at all. They sub-contract the work out anyway.
The soft-close hinges are just these things
[IMG] [/img]

for the price difference you quote, you must get the fancier, internally damped version. Worth £127 quid of anyone's money
[img] [/img]

And don't get me started on garages and en-suite bathrooms!

We had a two bed flat once that had an en suite. And I mean a tiny two bed flat - not big enough for a family, so wtf are there two bathrooms?

Oh and Ikea kitchens are lovely 🙂

if you have the time, that would be great!

The main one is this - If you're cutting holes for hob & sink, put the worktop in place BEFORE you cut the holes. Worktop is very heavy, and if you do it elsewhere and [i]then[/i] move it into place, it'll just snap where the thin bits are!
No need to screw it down, just rest it on the units, make sure it's clear underneath and then cut the holes before sliding gently into place.

I think you can get the corners mitered by the factory these days though, which is handy.

Think about where you're going to cut as well. You might not get a pefectly straight end edge, but if there's a windowsill or wall at one end, make the cut there and leave the factory cut on the exposed end, then hide the other end easily.

As always, measure TWICE, cut once. 🙂

Tiling - Paint you wall first, tile, then put a strip of masking tape along the top of the tiles on the wall before you grout the edge. Gives a lovely crisp finish on the wall.

my fathers a builder - having spent a fair bit of my younger years working on building sites in summer - wouldnt buy a house that hasnt stood for 40 years. let along a new house :s Wouldnt let any of those "homebase/mfi/ikea/moben" folk install my kitchen or kettle for that matter ...

much like my car - trusted local tradesmen only - reccomendations from mates or my dad. But the ammount of repair work my dads lot gets called in to do on the big guns newly fitted kitchens/bathrooms is rediculous !

including one where 20k worth of damage was done by a leaky pipe not connected correctly behind the units - wasnt spotted till the unit and laminate flooring started to bubble after about 6 months ! kitchen had to come out carefully , new floor boards and joists and replacement flooring , a chunk of the wall had to be replaced - old plaster and lathe wall soaked. kitchen units damaged all along the wall. - insurance covered it - the couple didnt want the cowboys the fitted it back in the house !

As a joiner and kitchen fitter I'll add a few comments:
Kitchen fitting is not just a case of screwing boxes to walls; it is always obvious when removing a kitchen whether it was fitted by someone who had a clue and had the right tools for the job.
My experience of fitting B+Q stuff (is Homebase similar, don't know?) is that you wait months for the stuff to arrive and if there are any issues with what's supplied you're pretty much screwed. Worktops are crappy and only 3m in length (chipboard ones)
Ikea stuff Ok apart from service void issue,legs that fall off, the need to cut a tap hole in sinks (always tell customers to do that job themselves, or choose a sink from elsewhere!); same worktop issues as B+Q.
Customer service a bit better that the competition.
The best worktops are the ones that have ground stone in an acrylic matrix like Quartz, Minerelle or Corian. Really not a DIY job to fit it though.
Kitchen fitting should cost in the £600-£1000 mark depending on complexity of the layout, integrated apps, light trims etc. Expect to pay more for Acrylic matrix ones as fitter has investment in tools and training to fit this stuff.

Oh and btw somone above mentioned quartz worktops above being the bees knees, dont be so sure as quatz is porous which means it can absorb and hold germs/moisture, most worktops have some element of trade off and tbh you cant go too wrong with a good quality laminate (

Nope. That's granite that's pourous. I've already checked that out. Quartz isn't and is better. 🙂

Those pnuematic hinges are still only £3.24 😯
http://www.strutsdirect.co.uk/components/pneumatic_soft_close_cabinet_hinges.php?products_id=1581

I think I gave you that tip, didn't I?
Anyway, Homebase soft close drawers are NOT the little plastic things you clip on, it's part of the drawer itself. Uses a magnetic damping drawer runner which does not break off in 5 seconds like the b and Q ones. I used to work for Homebase and I would still buy a kitchen from them as they are good quality and reasonably priced.
There has been days (ie one weekend I remember) where you got soft close drawers as a free upgrade.
I have looked round loads of kitchen suppliers and haven't found one that I'd go with apart from Homebase yet, although I would get my sink, taps and appliances elsewhere

cheers PP, some good advice there.
the big thing I'm worried about is where two perpendicular worktops meet and you have to cut a 45 deg angle on each - I can see this going seriously wrong.

They sub-contract the work out anyway.

They told us they didn't and had their own fitters, but that's by the by. If they subcontract, you're paying over the odds for the pleasure. I have no doubt they'd do a good job, but I can screw a unit to a wall just as well as the next man. So I will. I do realise we'll have to pay to have the worktop fitted but even the Hombase salesman admitted it would be easy to get that £1-2K less than they would charge.

for the price difference you quote, you must get the fancier, internally damped version. Worth £127 quid of anyone's money

I really do hope you're taking the pee Dez! 🙂

[url= http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SOFT-CLOSE-KITCHEN-CABINET-DOOR-HINGE_W0QQitemZ220426469300QQcmdZViewItem?rvr_id=122182572110&rvr_id=122182572110&cguid=f33b6a801280a0e204416ec1fe9530dd ]£1.69 each on Ebay. And they're as near as dammit identical.

I fitted out the kitchen in my old house with Ikea units - looked really good with stainless steel doors (steel wrap over wood); at the time they had these big alu tiles that made a great splash-back - so a metal looking kitchen on the cheap. I spent about a grand on everything and added a free standing stainless steel Smeg oven and a steel Baumatic hood. WIsh I'd got a photo as it did look pretty good when done.

The best worktops are the ones that have ground stone in an acrylic matrix like Quartz, Minerelle or Corian. Really not a DIY job to fit it though.

+1. Very durable, look amazing. I would have one if I had the money.

The biggest problem customers ever had in my store was NOT listening. They were always told to check their order when it arrived to make sure all the boxes were there. 99% of the orders were fine and we never had a problem. Customers were advised that we could get any missing parts couriered to them within 24hrs if they told us in the first 10 days but after that it might take 2 weeks to get the bits. We had one a week where they hadn't checked it (but signed for it anyway) then kept it in the garage for 12 months, because they hadn't bothered booking a fitter. The worktops would warp in the damp and they'd damaged bits which they obviously blamed on us. Generally it was the fitter who got the stress as they were sent in to sort it out with the store. We did our best for them tbh but I did feel sorry for the workman.

I could frighten you with the markup on some of the items (only some mind you)!!

the big thing I'm worried about is where two perpendicular worktops meet and you have to cut a 45 deg angle on each - I can see this going seriously wrong.

Hmmm - I took the easy option and just put them up against each other and joined with coloured kitchen sealant - looked OK I reckon; certainly better than a less than perfect cut.

Rob, for £127 I'll just shut the drawer gently FFS!!!

The hinges at £30-ish a door are a joke when I can get 5 doors worth for about £19 of the self same thing.

I'm not knocking the kitchens, and I've already said I was impressed by the service when we visited, but that's a smegging joke.

(Smeg-ing. Did you see what I did there? Eh?)

45 degree joints on a corner are a bitch to do and are also a waste of worktop length butt and scribe every time

Get a Howdens Kitchen, if you can find somebody nice enough to get it trade, ££££ in savings. Got about 80% off the price on mine, mind I did help fit the fu(ker.

Re granite, I dunno what the fuss is about them being porous. Ours are pretty dark in colour, greeny-dark grey, and we are just about the messiest people around. So we spill stuff and leave it for sometimes weeks.. and I've never seen a stain yet.

its not about the stains its about the bacteria.......

Anybody got or dealt with germankitchensdirect?

If you can get a relative / friend with a Howdens trade account (Howdens are keen on selling kitchens)then there are some good bargains however it is wise to shop around for appliances.

We had a kitchen fitted to a very old house with very uneven walls and got a dedicated local kitchen fitter to do the install. Two 14 hour days for two men and it is perfectly scribed and fitted there is not a mm gap anywhere. The cost was £650 a couple of years ago.

Equivalent B&Q etc was almost three times the complete cost.

Another vote for Ikea units - (fitted 3 kitchens so far with them) - but you might run them a few cms off the wall on battens to get wires and plumbing behind if you need to and then splash out on a pro-fitted Corian or Granite worktop fitted by someone like Alaris with a decent upstand and a high quality (eg Franke) sink and taps.

To save money when we re-fitted our kitchen we kept all the units and just replaced the worksurfaces / doors / handles / flooring & tiles.

Looks like a new kitchen without the serious price tag.

its not about the stains its about the bacteria.......

So my worktops are unhygienic?

In a word yes........

Btw I was told that granite etc worktops needed reinforced cabinets. So you might not be able to retrofit worktops... No idea if that's true though.

Beware buying ovens from Howdens - the inner glass in our Matsui one exploded after only ten months use, but as it had been installed six months earlier it was four months out of warranty and they have refused (so far) to supply another glass for free, despite the fact that there is evidence of this happening to others and it appears to be a poor design.

we kept all the units and just replaced the worksurfaces / doors ...

How do you go on with drawers? The fronts are integral to the drawer, what happens there?

We got units from these guys -
http://www.arena-kitchens.co.uk/

It was a few years back so don't know if anything has changed but the stuff they sell is good quality and priced well below what you'd pay on the high street (Wentworth make the kitchens John Lewis sell as their own brand at a much higher price than Arena sell them for).

Very solid carcasses, delivered fully built.

my kitchen cost 2 grand including taking a wall down and tiling the floor .Did most of the work myself and bought a second hand range cooker off ebay.At least buying a cheap one I wont mind changing it after a few years when I am sick of the sight of it

Hmm matsui being an ownbrand of the DSG chain I would be surprised if it was supplied by howdens

the hustler - Member
Hmm matsui being an ownbrand of the DSG chain I would be surprised if it was supplied by howdens

Well it certainly came from Howdens... Thought it was a Matsui - maybe not. Anyway, an oven from Howdens caused us problems. It's an hja 3300 model, anyway.

butt and scribe every time

which uses routers and jigs/ templates I guess? can I hire templates?
anyone got a link to a decent explanation of how to do this?

Hewdens used to hire the jigs out, bit long winded the explanation of how to do it, but think there are youtube links if you google it

How do you go on with drawers? The fronts are integral to the drawer, what happens there?

We only had one carcass which is for drawers (so not cupboard with drawer above style) so was quite easy to replace the 4 drawers in it.

Biggest pita was getting the doors right on the integrated appliances. Fridge door isn't quite lined up right, but only I can spot it

simons_nicolai-uk That arena kitchens is the place we are looking at ordering from, they are now called Alaris, good to hear you had a good service from them. Infact we got our bathroom from them and they fitted it a few weeks ago.

butt and scribe every time

which uses routers and jigs/ templates I guess? can I hire templates?
anyone got a link to a decent explanation of how to do this?

I fit kitchens for a living and although it sounds like I'm drumming for work (which I'm not as I'm booked until November) I'd leave this to pro's unless you want it to look crap. there are a few tricks to doing a mason mitre properly, not to mention quite a few expensive tools. I charge £50 per joint on work tops + a flat fee for sink/hob holes and finishing work if I've not fitted the kitchen. you'll soon spend more than that if you cut a worktop wrong and have to buy another. Also, not having a go but DON'T follow PP's advice on worktop fitting, very much the wrong way to go about things, oh, and never cut a 45deg mitre to join 2 90deg worktops, they always fail eventually and look rubbish from the off.

BTW the expensive soft close bits PP is ranting about are about £5 for a blum hinge and damper but the soft close Blum drawers cost around £50ea to buy.

Blazin, how do you rate the Pronorm kitchens? Or could you give me the name of some good quality ideally german makes that won't totally cripple my ever dwindling bank balance (~12-15k)> Thanks.

Right I'm being a bit lazy here, but there's loads of online shops out there you could have a look at. I've never been too happy with Homebase so wouldn't go there either, but I'd def have someone skilled to put it together. [url= http://www.magnet.co.uk ]http://www.magnet.co.uk[/url] [url= http://www.kitchensdirect.co.uk/ ]http://www.kitchensdirect.co.uk[/url]
[url= http://www.fashion4home.co.uk ]www.fashion4home.co.uk[/url] [url= http://www.cutpricekitchens.co.uk/ ]http://www.cutpricekitchens.co.uk[/url] You could always shop around,get cabinets from one place and then the handles etc from another. Might work out cheaper.

another vote for Ikea here.

As for concrete kitchens someone suggested further up - a acquaintance of mine doe this already - casts concrete worktops in situ