Just send from the friend of my partner who likes to invite them in and have a discussion.
The Jobos are no longer allowed to call on him since he deconverted one of them.
Our cat was called Jobo as she turned up and moved in when the Jobos were loose in our street hunting the credulous.
Hindu with its multiple gods does not come from the same place as Christianity.
Christianity comes from a multi god religion. In the older books of the Hebrew bible there are various references showing Yahweh moving from the head of a pantheon (equiv of Zeus or Odin) to being a standalone deity.
Holly shit there's some long winded crap on here.
A simple no I'm not interested is all it takes .
No one gets offended and everyone gets on with their lives.
How to deal with Jehovah's Witnesses is a topic which comes up now and again on STW. Some people find the subject of how to deal with them rather challenging.
It is often complicated by the fact that they have a low tolerance threshold towards people with different views to their own, and which they struggle to accept.
Whjy do we have to be polite to folk being rude to us? ringing my doorbell and waking me up to try to convert me to their cult when I am on night shift as has happened to me is extremely rude. But I am supposed to turn the other cheek?
It is often complicated by the fact that they have a low tolerance threshold towards people with different views to their own, and which they struggle to accept.
Ah. Irony.
I had a master and his padawan on my doorstep one time. I tried a gambit of "I'm quite happy with the religion I have, thanks." They asked what it was, I panicked and blurted out CofE or Roman Catholic or something. They replied "ah yes, we find the teachings of [whatever it was I said] to be very hypocritical."
Like, I don't necessarily disagree, but the Catholics don't go door-to-door rubbishing other people's beliefs.
Interesting how this place is the inner sanctum of virtue sometimes. And then when someone decides to ring your doorbell......
Would you be so rude if a brown person was stood there asking if you'd be interested in finding out more about Islam?
Just be bloody polite ffs, it costs nothing.
How hard is it to say 'no thanks, I'm not interested, but have a nice day'
This place
Anyone who tries to force their religion on me gets short shrift
Its bloody rude to ring your doorbell to try to convert you so rather than being a bit new testament and turn the other cheek I prefer a bit of old testament eye for an eye
Religion is like a penis. Its ok to have one, its great if you enjoy it. Its not acceptable to wave it around in public and try to shove it down folks throats
I'm more inclined to have a belief debate with them than my wife, i try to convert them to atheism. The wife just says "we are very happy with our faith and hope they have a nice day".
I can't really be rude to them as they will knock on our house door, and then go into the shop next door (which we run and is attached to our house) and buy coffee's ?
Pagan fertility symbol
We did this a year or so ago, when we discussed Christmas origins. Easter isn't pagan, the bunny is a German tradition. lays eggs gives them to children who're good.
Of all the different means of keeping the faithful in the congregation, the JW have a particularly clever* one.
There's only a limited number of places in the afterlife/heaven but to secure one of them, you have to prove your worth by converting others. Thereby reducing your odds of being one of the chosen. Unless of course you're more worthy than the next soul because you converted more...
I think someone wrote a book about this scenario.
"No thanks". Shut.
I could of course bore them with tales of what I have got up to with the 35 years of extra life granted to me by Norwegians pumping shed loads of krovvy into me after I haemorrhaged horribly during an operation over there.
Personally I have a sympathy for the Life of Brian approach to their naming. "He said it!"
Get a Ring doorbell. Don't answer the door to anyone in a suit holding a clipboard or leaflets. You don't even need to leave the sofa.
My new beard model 😉
This is stuck to my computer side wall. Bugs everybody.
Did you know Jesus is copyrighted by the JW's 🙂
Also, have a magnetic Pope fridge magnet stuck to the suspended ceiling. Found it in the road.
I saved the Pope 😉
Karol is long dead
He can't forgive your sins now
This has been transferred to and from every PC I have ever had. The only protection Windows needs 😉
I am going to tell you stories that may help you understand my relationship with religion and why I can distinguish between the individual and the organisation
1) I used to work for an organisation that was founded by a religious order. They had been taken over by a secular organisation as they no longer had enough nuns to run it. One nun remained as a client and we built a friendship. This nun had taken a vow of poverty. When I left the organisation she gave me a cutting from the plant on her windowsill as it was the only gift she could give me. This was 20 years ago and I still have that plant and its one of my most treasured possessions because I know how much that meant to her and that it shows the depth of the friendship we had
2) My Julie in her final days suffered pain fear and distress. She would have taken euthanasia had it been available. The reason euthanasia is not available is down to almost 100% to religious organisations opposing it and using their creed to interfere in a secular life.
Religion caused Julie and I immense suffering. I can never forgive that. Try looking into someone you loves eyes as they suffer when both of you know the reason for her continuing to suffer is religious interference in secular life
3) I looked after a woman who was dying from cancer. She was dying in immense psychological distress as according to her creed her suffering was gods will and she was tormented by this
I know of more folk that died in torment because of their and their families religion. Its unutterably vile
If you want to be religious fine. But do not use your religion to try to impose your morality on me. Do not try to convert me. Do not look down on me as a lessor person because I am atheist.
Nickc - sorry old chap - where do you think it came from in a German tradition? What has the easter bunny and eggs got to do with christianity?
Its a pagan fertility symbol. There is no doubt about that. Same as holly and ivy at the christmas feast and same as many other bits of paganism that christianity adopted.
I have heard "christians" arguing that the egg is the stone rolled away from the door. balderdash
If you want to be religious fine. But do not use your religion to try to impose your morality on me. Do not try to convert me. Do not look down on me as a lessor person because I am atheist.
I can't say I'm a fan of religion either
I'm not a fan of door to door sales people of any persuasion tbh
But I still manage to be courteous.
Maybe get a big sign that says no cold callers?
To return to the question, when I lived in Nottingham we got visited a lot - our neighbourhood must have been the training ground or something.
At the same time my mum was the Clerk of the Nottingham Society of Friends (Quakers). This info was enough to get us off the list, admittedly I forgot to tell them that mum didn't live there and we are agnostic.
I welcome ALL religions to have a chat with me. No problem whatsoever provided I am free and Not in the morning.
Just last week I had Harvest Church people knocked on my door to give me a booklet which I accepted, the person was friendly and I think I was the only person that answered the door that morning. The person was polite etc.
As far as I am concerned, there are good and bad apples in all areas of society regardless; and In religion, just as in the society, you get corruption of thoughts or teachings etc.
IMO, it is pointless trying to save humanity because the nature of things will deal with them accordingly. There is not a single religion that try to save the whole humanity because that is not how things work (as far as I know and if they really understand their own teachings). No one religion should force others to join or to convert because if they understand their own teachings they would know that it is a sin to force (all religions). However, as in any form of corruption, the people who perceive themselves as the "chosen" ones (notice the similarity with all political leaders past and present?) will see themselves as the rightful person to exercise "control" over others using whatever form there is. Religions to those who are corrupted are merely a vehicle to achieve their own aims. They have no clue of the real teachings.
If you ask me (my own views) what would I do with humanity? I would say let them burn. Burn! (my view is "inline" with more religious teaching on this matter - go check yourself) The logic is very simple, it is not their time to be saved yet. i.e. let the nature takes it course. Staying truthful to the right teaching will be enough for the individual self.
As for political thoughts, now that is a "god" walking. This comes to my mind "In the name of saving the environment etc let me dictate to you the way of your life. Thou shall Not smoke anyway near me coz you are forcing the smoke onto my lungs etc because I want to live forever. (they then set up rules to punish in the name of democracy)" Yeah right. LOL!
@Jameso, good points.
If you just ask them to remove your address from their list they won't call again. I've done that at all my previous addresses, they once turned up by mistake and when I said I'd already been asked to be taken off they couldn't apologise enough 🙂
I'm polite with Jehovah's but I have much less patience with doorstep cold callers!
I'm descendant of one JW parent and one staunch atheist parent with both sides equally as intolerant and tedious as the other (as symbolised here, predictably). It was exactly as much fun to grow up around as it sounds.
Charity tin rattlers, SKY sales people in shopping centres, Oxfam street muggers, cold-callers and religious door-steppers. They're all just doing their thing. It's not my thing. It takes no real manners at all to politely say "no thanks" and continue on with your day.
Some right fanciful bollocks spouted on here at times, goodness me.
My old neighbours when I lived in Melbourne got arrested for inviting them in and giving them tea and hash cookies.
I just close the door and say bye.
I’ve just remembered one encounter from when I was about 12 (ish).
They insisted I take some leaflets.
Me: “Er, thanks. Bye” and went to close the door.
JW: “Oi, we want a donation for the leaflets”
Me: “Oh sorry, have them back”
JW: “No, we want you to have them”
After going round this loop a few times I put the leaflets on the doorstep and slowly shut the door.
I don’t think either side had a clue what was going on!
It is often complicated by the fact that they have a low tolerance threshold towards people with different views to their own, and which they struggle to accept.
I put it down to the lack of a Christian upbringing.
Whenever I have met JW's, I find they have a really strange cold friendliness, it is very artificial but not necessarily acting for the benefit others but like they are trying to will themselves to be positive and cheerful, but there is no substance behind it.
At the risk of repeating myself, doubt does not require faith. The notion that I don’t have a unicorn infestation in my cellar is not dependent on a belief system.
And the crux of the concept of god is that we can't open the cellar door to prove it either way, it was canny marketing when it came up first.
To me some doubt in atheism is there because my uncertainty over what it actually is to reject belief in, so I have to accept a possibility. Personally I would need faith/confidence/trust to take a position of certainty on the rejection.
That's all said recognising how saying 'it can't be defined / is hard for me to define' makes the position weak and it isn't meant as a defence tactic - it really is IDK so despite inclination to not believe I can't quite agree that it can or can't be so. Close to 'weak atheism' I think rather than agnostic views. Which is why the JWs would get a thanks but you'd be wasting your time on me, having said that welcome for a cuppa and a chat if you like type of response. Perhaps that comes from thinking the more different to me someone is the more interesting a conversation might be, more than anything about religion itself. I'd prob bore them and they wouldn't come back : )
Firmly. Respectfully. Adding if they return that you will then report them for harassment which it will be.
To me some doubt in atheism is there because my uncertainty over what it actually is to reject belief in, so I have to accept a possibility.
Do you accept the possibility of my unicorns?
If you need to compile a list of things to not believe in before you can reject those beliefs, it's amazing you find time to do anything else.
It is often complicated by the fact that they have a low tolerance threshold towards people with different views to their own, and which they struggle to accept.
I put it down to the lack of a Christian upbringing.
If those two digs are aimed at me:
1) I went to church schools
2) I respect individuals of all sorts. I have no time for organised religion.
I have fought for religious folk to have futile treatment because thats what they wanted guided by their religion. I have taken religious folk to their place of worship in my own time because it was a comfort to them. Thats respect for individuals and their beliefs.
I have seen first hand the great harm organised religions do to people. I have seen first hand the despicable tactics and lies organised religion uses to try to impose their world view on the secular. Thats why I have no time at all for organised religion
As regards the JWs - they have crossed that line when they bother me in my own home. Its completely unacceptable and they were rude first by waking me up when I was sleeping for a night shift. "an eye for an eye" "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" " judge not lest ye be judged"
I'm being absurd of course, but it's with reason.
There is a line of thought amongst some people of faith which cannot accept unbelief, and it is both insidious and offensive. Kids of Catholic parents aren't atheists, they're Lapsed Catholics. "There are no atheists in foxholes." Bullshit.
There is an implication that faith is the default position and those who don't believe have stayed from the flock, lost their way. Again, this is a lie. No-one is born believing in a god or gods, it's given to them by their parents. Non-belief is the default state, belief is learned behaviour. I have no more rejected belief in god than I have rejected belief in the tooth fairy or my unicorns because there is nothing to reject. Arguing differently is just going "yes, but you still believe just a little bit, don't you?"
Trying to convince someone of faith they’re wrong or trying to ‘outsmart’ them is pointless and comes from ego – atheism takes a level of faith just like religious belief does. There is no evidence for or against any religion, it’s purely a matter of faith. We don’t fully understand the universe or our own brains.
This is patently incorrect. Whilst there is no objective evidence for the actual existence of an actual god (or gods), there is ample evidence to show what we are and why we're here, and to debunk the ridiculous creeds that are spouted out.
Atheism is quite simply saying that there is no evidence of any God's existence and that science has most of the evidence based answers we might require if we're prepared to engage
Do you accept the possibility of my unicorns?
If you need to compile a list of things to not believe in before you can reject those beliefs, it’s amazing you find time to do anything else.
oc you don't need to list those things, fantasy stuff, all one group. Is god in that group, yes for some.
The unicorns in your cellar? Open the door and we know they aren't there. A god, well not in your cellar but if it could be something that exists in a space we can't observe we can't know. So unicorns could exist in the space where god could exist and god may be a unicorn. Which is absurd oc. But it's not so absurd to accept there are places and spaces we can't observe that may have influence on us, areas of our own minds for example where psychedelics or meditation might unlock them. What unlocks a mind to the presence of god, could that even happen? idk.
My uncertainty as to what atheism actually rejects is from accepting my own lack of awareness or understanding here. 'I don't know' and 'I wonder?' suits me ok sometimes, I don't need to 'know'. Clearly there's greater likelihood a god doesn't exist as there's no positive proof but there can be things that might be attributed to it as possible evidence. Unlikely, but not a certainty. I'd concede that's a loose definition or vague and vagueness isn't a tactic here, just how it is.
Could you accept that someone can't say with certainty that something that isn't understood or clearly defined exists or not?
The unicorns in your cellar? Open the door and we know they aren’t there.
They're invisible, obviously.
I have no more rejected belief in god than I have rejected belief in the tooth fairy or my unicorns because there is nothing to reject. Arguing differently is just going “yes, but you still believe just a little bit, don’t you?”
Not from me anyway fwiw, I'm just drawn to convos where povs test my own ideas.
I can see how people feel joy at nature or life and feel thankful and that can become a thought of what to thank and a thought of god, which as you say is a learned concept. They may as well attribute it to unicorns. I might feel the same way with a thought of something higher but it's not thinking of God. Or whatever it's called, god, unicorns or the flying spaghetti monster, only society and history make one the more accepted expression of 'the thing' that some feel (the Tao seems closer to it, to me). I suppose it's getting into metaphysical thoughts about where our humanity comes from - and that's way out my intellectual depth - rather than pure logic that would say it's an open and shut case or very simply no evidence to submit.
@oldnick - I have never heard of JW asking for money.
I just take their leaflet, say thanks and shut the door. Put the leaflet in recycling.
Where I lived in my 20's, they always seemed to send very attractive young ladies knocking on the doors. Maybe a tactic?
There's a lot of ex-JW's who call it out as cult and how controlling it is.
@funkrodent I certainly wouldn't say it takes the same level of faith, but since absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, perhaps it's not 100% for atheism so I see it as a position that takes some faith. But logically it's same for unicorns, granted and why it's about a concept and cause/effect more than the name.
there is ample evidence to show what we are and why we’re here, and to debunk the ridiculous creeds that are spouted out.
Certainly. I'm only saying there's a lot of difference between for ex the written words like the old testament taken literally, and the concept of 'god' as a way to talk about influence on aspects of human nature, spiritualism or thought.
...I'm off the bike by Drs orders and 5 weeks in, this is what I'm doing on a Saturday aft : )
…I’m off the bike by Drs orders and 5 weeks in, this is what I’m doing on a Saturday aft : )
You know the Vuelta's on?
