[Closed] How on earth do people cope financially in the UK?

I have lived here all my life and I have no idea.

We need a B-Ark.

where the hell does all this money come from?!

Obvious troll is obvious. 1/10

London prices are [url= http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/02/london-inequality-house-prices ]insane[/url]. Other, far, far, far nicer, and massively cheaper parts of the country are available.

The new cars and holidays are all paid for on credit, borrowed against the equity in peoples London properties that they bought for £2.93 before the prices went intersteller, and are now increasing at approximately £8,000 a day, as a Greek shipping magnet wants to buy it as an investment haven to get his money out of Europe. Or something.

where the hell does all this money come from?!

People earn more than you do maybe ?

Got to agree, I've no idea how folk manage it - especially low-earning families in the more expensive parts.

The UK is the seventh richest country in the world.

Also, don't live in London.

HTH.

Rents are bizarrely high at the moment. I visited a town in the Thames Valley I used to live in, and saw a flat similar to my old one on sale for less money than I sold mine for in 2004, while rents were more than double what they were back then.

There is a huge inequality in wealth / income in the UK, mainly encouraged / driven by the last few governments. So you have a small 'have a lot' camp, with London pads, nice cars and a huge 'have not a lot' camp who post on STW about people with London pads and nice cars:

UK income inequality increased by 32% between 1960 and 2005. During the same period, it increased by 23% in the USA, and in Sweden decreased by 12%.
• In the 1960s Sweden and the UK had similar levels of income inequality. By 2005 the gap between the two had increased by 28%.
• Since the 1980s income inequality in the United States and the UK has increased substantially and has returned to levels not seen since the 1920s.
• The growth in inequality in the last 30 years has been driven by the top 1% of wage incomes.

Debt - too much of it at all levels, people borrow too much to finance their consumption, corporates and banks have too much debt (leverage) and governments borrow too much on top. The base for the economic mirage in the UK.

And the proposed solution? More debt.......more penalties for the financially prudent etc. What a bloody mess!! ironically spell check tried to change bloody into LLoyds. How fitting!!!!

Footflaps - rising inequality is a global phenomenon, so a little harsh to pinpoint UK governments. And if you update the numbers past 2005 as the OECD has done you find that some of the most rapid increases in inequality are found in counties that are perceived traditionally as being more equal (eg, some of Scandinavia).

a huge 'have not a lot' camp who post on STW

Whoah there - I've been here two years under a assumption that STW is populated primarily by the wealthy niche-hunter (he's got a couple of London flats - he calls them 'pads' and has two because he digs choice - a Tassimo, two Audis and a corral of carbon-framed steeds) and Manchester-based conoisseurs of savoury pastry treats. Way to destroy my illusions, fella. 😉

The UK is horribly expensive, but those after a real finance scare should try Norway. 😯

[i]a Tassimo[/i]

That's a bit low rent for stw.

Nespresso, surely?

I've been looking at rent in the suburbs of London

There's your problem.

I'm looking at coming back to live in the UK, after not paying tax abroad for a while.

Well hopefully young (assumption!) man you have been doing the sensible thing whilst abroad with all that extra cash and saved a shit load to put down a nice big deposit on a house and not pissed it up against a wall so it shouldn't be your concern.

I think unless you got Londoned up before the hike in prices it's to be avoided if you are on a middling income or less unless your particular trade makes it impossible not to.

The wealth of the baby boomers was a one-off. Most people in human history are just looking to survive and we've gone back to that - don't compare your situation with the baby boomers, it will only depress you:-

a Tassimo

That's a bit low rent for stw.

Nespresso, surely?

I think that says more about me and my inability to fit in around here. 🙁

I've been here two years under a assumption that STW is populated primarily by the wealthy niche-hunter

a huge 'have not a lot' camp who post on STW

The race to the commonest is a good one round here some days

sorry, I should have added a 😉 it wasn't intended to make you feel bad.

someone will be along shortly to top Nespresso with a Gaggia bean to cup and make me feel bad, I expect 🙂

Gaggia? Krups here, old bean.

Gaggia... Jura mate 😉

I have no idea how people afford stuff. I don't even live in London and am constantly struggling and that is without holidays and the like!

If you are not caffeining up with a Pavoni Europiccola Lever you are beneath contempt! 😉

De Longhi filter here. 😳 😐 🙁 😥

i heard some of them keep their tea leaves in bags.....

The UK is horribly expensive, but those after a real finance scare should try Norway.

I dunno about that. I went to Romania a couple of times - which I imagine most people would think of as a cheap country, and yes you could buy a beer in a bar for 80p or whatever, but then we were told that a doctor earns around 3000 euros a year.

Rent was at least half the prices in the UK if not more, so actually Romania is much more expensive than the UK for people that live there.

I think you basically need two incomes in a household to be anything like comfortable.

Well hopefully young (assumption!) man you have been doing the sensible thing whilst abroad with all that extra cash and saved a shit load to put down a nice big deposit on a house and not pissed it up against a wall so it shouldn't be your concern.

Excellent work 🙂

a huge 'have not a lot' camp who post on STW

Whoah there - I've been here two years under a assumption that STW is populated primarily by the wealthy niche-hunter

Those in the real 'have a lot camp' have their Butler's under Butler post on STW for them....

[i]The wealth of the baby boomers was a one-off. Most people in human history are just looking to survive and we've gone back to that - don't compare your situation with the baby boomers, it will only depress you:-[/i]

+1

But to clarify, that is the wealth of average working baby boomers was a one-off.

Many of my parents generation were 'enhanced' by the privatisation boom and the way that mass redundancies were 'paid' for by shipping people onto pension early (my Uncle retired at 52 on a good index-linked pension, after 35 years with the Water Board).

And even though I've earned 2-3 times (inflation adjusted) what my Father did, I'll be struggling to equal his pension.

I think you basically need two incomes in a household to be anything like comfortable.

or to have been born 40-60 years ago, bought a large house for the price of a Panini, paid the mortgage off and looking forward to retiring shortly on your final salary / Civil service pension......

The wealth of the baby boomers was a one-off. Most people in human history are just looking to survive and we've gone back to that - don't compare your situation with the baby boomers, it will only depress you:-

You're not wrong. That generation had stable jobs and excellent pensions, free education, free healthcare, low taxes, low property prices, cheap energy, cheap fuel for their cheap cars - and what did they do? Scorched the Earth and then systematically dismantled the institutions that served them so well and removed the advantages they themselves enjoyed, all in the name of greed. For the first time in hundreds of years we in the First World have taken a step backwards.

My generation (born in the late 1970s) only took a reasonably small hit but I genuinely pity kids hitting their late 20s these days. They should be really ****ing angry.

Rents are bizarrely high at the moment.

Not that bizarre surely. A shortage of affordable/social housing and an army of buy-to-letters who cashed in on the last housing boom would seem to explain this. I agree though that it is crazy. You'd think in any sensibly run country that providing affordable housing for the population would be at the top of the list of priorities. However in the UK it seems that's less important than inflating the nest-eggs of the already propertied classes.

theres a huuuge shortage of housing in and around london
and the stuff that is there is often badly designed and maintained

some new builds near us in the desireable location of being a few tens of metres from the M4, despite ridiculous prices, a complete lack of storage space (I suppose they were built for young singles/couples who own nothing larger than an ipad) have been plagued with problems, last year 1 block spent december to march with no heating, and a couple of months ago sewage was backed up and overflowing into peoples homes.
And still they are being snapped up , they cant build them fast enough!

Yes Footflaps. That seems to be the case. But...i'm still amazed every time I drive through relatively working class bits of the UK, that there are so so many new cars for example.

I find the whole buy-to-let, baby boomers property thing really bloody frustrating. I haven't really saved anything much out here really; I was paying off various student/professional/credit card debts which is a little annoying. I need to be based in London, so there is little else I can do.

The main thing is. How on earth do you make it work on 20k? If you're take home is 1300 quid a month..you pay about £100 council tax, maybe £700 in rent, £20 on your phone, £30 on utilities, £130 on your travel card? It leaves you about £200 a month to live on.

grum - Member
I dunno about that. I went to Romania a couple of times - which I imagine most people would think of as a cheap country, and yes you could buy a beer in a bar for 80p or whatever, but then we were told that a doctor earns around 3000 euros a year.

Are you sure it wasn't E3000 a month?
Just looking at Payscale.com, it seems the median for 'Physician / Doctor, General Practice' [url= http://www.payscale.com/mypayscale.aspx?app=AnonymousProfiles&pid=d0e0bf21-1119-4ce7-8c3e-374445c9d7cc ]is $55k in Bucharest[/url]. No idea how good their data is though - it looks like quite a small sample group:
[url= http://www.payscale.com/mypayscale.aspx?app=AnonymousProfiles&pid=d0e0bf21-1119-4ce7-8c3e-374445c9d7cc ]
LINK[/url]

The main thing is. How on earth do you make it work on 20k? If you're take home is 1300 quid a month..you pay about £100 council tax, maybe £700 in rent, £20 on your phone, £30 on utilities, £130 on your travel card? It leaves you about £200 a month to live on.

In the SE, the answer is 'with great difficulty'.

Are you sure it wasn't E3000 a month?
Just looking at Payscale.com, it seems the median for 'Physician / Doctor, General Practice' is $55k in Bucharest. No idea how good their data is though - it looks like quite a small sample group:

Nope they definitely said per year - this is just what I was told so may not have been accurate. This is quite a while ago too, and things seemed to be changing rapidly in general from the two visits I went on a year apart (loads more fancy cars on the roads the second time rather than knackered old Dachias for example).

Also, apparently doctors almost all top up their wages by taking bribes, eg to bump people up waiting lists. Again, this is just what we were told by locals.

According to a UKIP blog 🙂 average wages in Romania are now 347 euros a month after tax. Not sure how that compares to the UK but I strongly suspect your average UK citizen is Koch better off than your average Romanian citizen, despite it being a 'cheap' country.

http://chrisukipblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/immigration-romanian-salaries.html?m=1

I have no idea which coffee machine is used in my house. Indeed, I think I saw the kitchens once, but was shooed away rather quickly by an unpleasantly large woman. I merely clap my hands and espresso arrives within a few minutes. Marvellous.

on the plus side when you get back you will get free healthcare and many other things provided

Not for long.

I think you basically need two incomes in a household to be anything like comfortable.

This probably hits the nail on the head. Hence why couples work/play hard on their 50k-100k salaries and then move to the country (or surrey) to have kids.

Whats more lots of people seem to have new cars, take holidays abroad, buy new carbon road bikes...where the hell does all this money come from?!

When I worked up north in Middlesbrough* and rented a 3 bed house for <£500/month, those in employment generaly drove nice cars (Financed or 3-6yr old BMW's, Audi's etc). I live in Wokingham** and the car park is full of 6-10 year old Ford Focus.

That's only anecdotal, and probably subject to observational bias. But the same applied to bikes too (far more SS's down south, >50% of the northerners were on new-ish Santa Cruz and I was the only SS). Also I think southerners seemed to spend more weekends doing DIY, northerners always seemed to have tradesmen in doing the work.

That's just my observation having worked in 2 offices for the same company at two different ends of the country, so similar demographics and earnings in different siuations. Obviously there are a lot of poorer northerners and richer southerners as well.

*pretty much the most deprived place in England, the ICI Petrochems site went from 100,000 staff to 10,000 in alsmost no time at all, similar story at the steel plant, and all the associated ironstone, limestone and coal mining villages nearby.

**3rd most expensive place in the UK outside London, 1 bed flat would be £500+

The main thing is. How on earth do you make it work on 20k? If you're take home is 1300 quid a month. you pay about £100 council tax, maybe £700 in rent, £20 on your phone, £30 on utilities, £130 on your travel card? It leaves you about £200 a month to live on.

You save 75 quid by getting a bus pass not a travelcard, you save a tenner by not having an expensive phone, you share a room with someone else which cuts down on the rent or live somewhere absolutely minging.

Median salary in London is about £34000, so if you get an average job in London, you don't have it so bad obviously.

far more SS's down south

That's cos we've all got strong legs unlike our northern pansy gear needing, bow legged, whippet cosseting brethren....

or possibly there are no hills down here...

But the same applied to bikes too (far more SS's down south, >50% of the northerners were on new-ish Santa Cruz and I was the only SS).

Thats nowt to do with cash! That's just because we've got proper hills, and big pointy rocks, and stuff. So need gears and suspension. And our bikes get hammered because we can go out riding all the time without having to drive 100 miles! Though to be honest, 90% own an Orange 5 😉

good point about travel in London
its got the best travel network in the country, buses are frequent and run 24hrs, it moves millions of people daily

however get a ss (or in my case a 1x9) and youll save 2 grand a year in travel expenses but youll have to be prepared to ride in all weathers!

anyone at your new workplace want a lodger?

I also know how difficult it is. Especially to get on the housing ownership ladder and break away from renting. I live in the South East (not quite London but near) and find it funny on forums when people tell you not to live there like it's a practical solution. Yes, I'm going to move away from my family and children's schools and friends of years gone by, so I can live up North with cheaper housing and comparatively lower job earnings so I'm basically the same in terms of disposable income anyway. No.

I earn enough to survive and occasionally buy something. To get my MTB, I had to buy something old and second hand. How people just pluck 2K out on a new one every few years is like....how the? I've owned cars worth much less!

Thats nowt to do with cash! That's just because we've got proper hills, and big pointy rocks, and stuff. So need gears and suspension. And our bikes get hammered because we can go out riding all the time without having to drive 100 miles! Though to be honest, 90% own an Orange 5

Yup, but it does kinda dispell the stereotype that everyone at Swinley rides a 150mm travel carbon superbike and everyone up north rides an On-One.

Bessides, the only places the SS felt out of it's depth was on those long straight moorland bridleway decents where everyone else could pedal away! :-p

Yup, but it does kinda dispell the stereotype that everyone at Swinley rides a 150mm travel carbon superbike and everyone up north rides an On-One.

I'm always amazed at the bikes I see at Cannock, you'd think they'd all got lost on the way to an Uplift day at Les Arcs....

[i]Rents are bizarrely high at the moment.[/i]

On the down at the moment. We had to knock 50 quid a month of the rent for our house before someone would take it.

I live in the South East (not quite London but near) and find it funny on forums when people tell you not to live there like it's a practical solution. Yes, I'm going to move away from my family and children's schools and friends of years gone by, so I can live up North with cheaper housing and comparatively lower job earnings so I'm basically the same in terms of disposable income anyway.

Unfortunately housing policy in this country, such as it is, is presently geared, as always, to keeping the baby boomers of the home counties in Range Rovers, by maintaining an artificially inflated housing market in the south east, so they can carry on sucking at the teet of property equity/credit. Hence Georges absolutely insane Help to Buy scheme. Pumping billions of taxpayers money to prop up property prices, an re-inflate the bubble by fuelling insane price escalation

The housing market in this country is completely unsustainable. Has been for years. But rather than allow the much-needed correction (as all independent experts seem to recommend), they've decided to replicate 'sub-prime' conditions again. With the taxpayer on the hook for the losses directly this time, instead of the banks What could possibly go wrong?

The upshot of this is that social housing tennents are being booted out of the capital, to the provinces, en masse, already. Now private housing policy is geared to making sure people in your position won't be far behind them. All but the very rich are being priced out of Londinium. This is a deliberate policy

I'm always amazed at the bikes I see at Cannock, you'd think they'd all got lost on the way to an Uplift day at Les Arcs....

Perhaps the midlands are the proof of the theory. Similar disposable incomes to the north, therfore nice bikes bought, but without them being justifiable.

All but the very rich are being priced out of Londinium. This is a deliberate policy

They're being pushed out, but not necessarily that far. Relatives of mine are managing to eke it out in Croydon 😯

My sympathies to any STWers who also live in Croydon.

Relatives of mine are managing to eke it out in Croydon

To miss quote Jade from BB - "Croydon, isn't that a different country?"

Whoah there - I've been here two years under a assumption that STW is populated primarily by the wealthy niche-hunter (he's [s]got a couple of London flats - he calls them 'pads' and has two because he digs choice - a Tassimo, two Audis and a corral of carbon-framed steeds) [/s] [b]CFH[/b]. Way to destroy my illusions, fella.

ftfy

Felt like it, footflaps!

30 minutes from Victoria though... 😯

EDIT: 😆 @ TomHoward

There must be serious wonga in post-its, I guess.

Mark Radcliffe was saying the other day that Croydon is effectively part of the north that accidentally found itself daaaaaahn saaaaaaaaarf.

In the same way that Cheshire isn't northern in anything other than its geographical location. Maybe there was a terrible mix up with the instructions when God was delivering the UK in Ikea flat pack form

Croydon is effectively part of the north that accidentally found itself daaaaaahn saaaaaaaaarf.

I don't know about the north/south thing - Croydon felt to me like Plymouth gone gangsta – without the sea and navy hoes. 😯

rents might be on their way down where you are samuri or perhaps your house just wasnt the same as the other on offer - remember area is everything.......

house rental here is only going one way - mental.

1k gets you a 2 bed in a highrise if you want to be in an area where your car doesnt disapear over night.

There must be serious wonga in post-its, I guess.

You've no idea how much they cost down South.....

[i]This probably hits the nail on the head. Hence why couples work/play hard on their 50k-100k salaries and then move to the country (or surrey) to have kids. [/i]

Or based upon another post, spend £420 on their PCP financed cars 🙂

We moved from the Buckinghamshire to the Scottish Borders. Houses are cheap to buy, considerably so. Renting looks about 50-65% of the SE price.

But, wages are not only lower but there are far, far less companies of a size to generate middle/upper management roles/salaries. Best payers are either in Edinburgh or the public sector.

London is expensive but it's a trade off as, generally speaking (and this is a generalisation), there is a lot more opportunity and carear upside there. It's a lifestyle choice, take a hit now in the hope of progression and pay rises or probable better lifestyle elsewhere.

It was a few years ago but there was a study which showed Machester, on average, had best disposable income on average as housing costs were much lower but salaries were quite good.

Re rents, you can rent a nice 3 bedroomed house in the Surrey Hills for £1k a month

house rental here is only going one way - mental.

1k gets you a 2 bed in a highrise if you want to be in an area where your car doesnt disapear over night.

aberdeen is hardly representative of the rest of scotland though is it now?

"Joe - Member
I'm looking at coming back to live in the UK, after not paying tax abroad for a while. I earn what I thought was a decent ish salary, but after tax/NI etc it's looking increasingly like living hand and mouth. I've no idea how young families, nurses and teachers etc cope.

I've been looking at rent in the suburbs of London and my eyes are watering. You can't get a 1 bedroom flat for much less than £250 a week.

Whats more lots of people seem to have new cars, take holidays abroad, buy new carbon road bikes...where the hell does all this money come from?"

Nurses and teachers? Hardly the poor. I know home helps in Manchester who are paid £7 an hour. Have to use there own car (and therefore higher insurance), pay for there petrol and get paid only when they arrive at the job. 12 hour a day 6 days a week just to get the equivalent of minimum wage. They do this by making them self employed. They are the poor, they are the ones that deserve your sympathy not the well of teachers and nurses. I know of many many examples of this. I live on less than £200 a week pension (disability) although to be honest I don't find it that much of a struggle as I own my house and have not got a car (epilepsy). Example I shot 3 pigeons in my garden yesterday. Or put another way I have the time to be frugal. How the hell someone working 12 hours a day cope?

I've worked out that I need to earn £600 a month to break even- pay rent, bills, food, council tax, NI & student loan (with £30 disposable income).

I think that's very cheap. £7,200 a year! You could make that on a part time minimum wage job. You won't be living a life of luxury but you'd get by just fine.

The answer is very simple - don't spend more than a) you earn, and b) you can afford.

Judging your own standard of living by looking at other peoples' is pointless.

PS housing cost in the south? Trying looking at how many second homes there are, last estimate 300,000 And that does not included foreigners who buy London homes as an investment and never occupy them.

you will get free healthcare

No such thing.

The main thing is. How on earth do you make it work on 20k? If you're take home is 1300 quid a month..you pay about £100 council tax, maybe £700 in rent, £20 on your phone, £30 on utilities, £130 on your travel card? It leaves you about £200 a month to live on.

Rent: you share a flat or house with others. Somewhere livable and well connected for transport inside zone 2 is <£600/month. You split council tax, utilities, TV licence, internet, etc too.

I've never lived in a flat on my own - lived in several house/flatshares until my (now) wife and I got a place together. She's never had her own place in the past either.

Travelcard? Cycle everywhere.

Mobile phone? £10 a month more than covers that these days unless you must have the latest thing subsidised by the network.

Lunch? Make it yourself rather than spending £5+ a day.

That would give the hypothetical £20k earner more like £500pm for food and anything else they might need.

Or based upon another post, spend £420 on their PCP financed cars

Well we do need to escape the city now and then and as a % of take home, its acceptable.

I've worked out that I need to earn £600 a month to break even- pay rent, bills, food, council tax, NI & student loan (with £30 disposable income).

I think that's very cheap. £7,200 a year! You could make that on a part time minimum wage job. You won't be living a life of luxury but you'd get by just fine.

+1, although I'd go further and point out the vast majority of students get by on about £4,500/p.a. loans and don't top it up with a job.

It's all about expectations. If you expect a house to yourself in a nice area, a new car and a holliday somewhere exotic, you're going to be sorely dissapointed. Get a house with some mates, live without a car and holliday in the UK and you can live for peanuts. Other than bike parts I never wanted for anything.

+1, although I'd go further and point out the vast majority of students get by on about £4,500/p.a. loans and don't top it up with a job.

They also don't pay council tax, which saves about £1,500 a year. Assuming you can rent a shared student flat for 30% less than a standard one, you've also saved another couple of thousand a year.

I bet they have similar disposable income to someone on a minimum wage job, living in a small studio flat.

[i] But the same applied to bikes too (far more SS's down south, >50% of the northerners were on new-ish Santa Cruz and I was the only SS).

Thats nowt to do with cash! That's just because we've got proper hills, and big pointy rocks, and stuff. So need gears and suspension. [/i]

Woah, woah woahh!!

We don't all need that stuff. I did after all, invent mountain biking and singlespeeding at my house when I was about 8 and I grew up in the peak district. We didn't have suspension then either.

"thisisnotaspoon - Member

+1, although I'd go further and point out the vast majority of students get by on about £4,500/p.a. loans and don't top it up with a job.

It's all about expectations. If you expect a house to yourself in a nice area, a new car and a holliday somewhere exotic, you're going to be sorely dissapointed. Get a house with some mates, live without a car and holliday in the UK and you can live for peanuts. Other than bike parts I never wanted for anything."

RUBBISH Mummy and Daddy are supporting them. My daughter had 2 jobs going while at Nottingham University. She wasn't getting any support from me and would doubt from her mother.

I did after all, invent mountain biking and singlespeeding at my house when I was about 8 and I grew up in the peak district. We didn't have suspension then either.

Nope, it was me who invented the combo you mention, on my bmx no less in mid Wales c. 1982. Oh how the locals gaped. I imagine my exploits reached the peaks in, say, 1983. My sick moves have since gone global. Some day, a fine researcher will discover me and write a book.

1k gets you a 2 bed in a highrise if you want to be in an area where your car doesnt disapear over night.

Not sure where you are looking but you can get something in the West End for around 750-1k.

I don't think living costs in the UK are too awful outside London, but then too many people won't save for anything and make the necessary effort to do so. I'm amazed how many people think things like an ipad or Sky are essential.

I love living around cannock.

Houses are cheap - £160k for a 3 bed detatched

Chase on the doorstep - I can do a lap of the dog in less than an hour riding from my front door

Brum is less than an hour on the train £65 a month for a pass gets you city wages

I've got a house, newish car, 2 kids, housewife, 4 (admittedly not great) bikes and go on uk holidays 2-3 times a year. Oh and a tassimo, better than a nespresso IMO because it steams the milk for you.

In my little town that was a sh1thole 9 years ago when we moved in now has - an improved train service, a big ass Tesco, a Costa, an Aldi, a Skatepark, new tennis courts and of course the Dog and Monkey. I wouldn't move away now unless I was minted and could retire to Cornwall.

In my little town that was a sh1thole 9 years ago when we moved in now has - an improved train service, a big ass Tesco, a Costa, an Aldi

Cheers,
Jamie

No Waitrose? Still a shithole then.

It's still in the Midlands, come on 😉

I've worked out that I need to earn £600 a month to break even- pay rent, bills, food, council tax, NI & student loan (with £30 disposable income).

I think that's very cheap. £7,200 a year! You could make that on a part time minimum wage job. You won't be living a life of luxury but you'd get by just fine.

That would probably be ok if you were a student or had just left home but £30 a week doesn't leave you with anything really when you factor in clothes, dental, medical, savings, tv licence, insurances, internet, phone, holidays etc etc