MegaSack DRAW - This year's winner is user - rgwb
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I'm after that STW Holy Grail - a cheap, reliable estate car for lugging bikes. Ideally one with a little get-up-and-go.
It seems the bottom end of the market is not as cheap as it was, and there's less to choose from. Plus everything seems to be diesel, which I've never had or wanted before.
Does something like this meet with STW approval: https://www.gumtree.com/p/mazda/2010-mazda-mazda6-estate-2.2td-163ps-ts2-1-owner-fsh-may-part-ex/1381453362
Done a lot of miles... should that be a worry? How well do diesels last?
How well do diesels last?
In theory a lot longer than Petrols, the engines generally run far slower (RPM) and because of their nature they're generally built longer, Diesel engine failures are rare. It's all the bits they use to make them run well and comply with emissions that cause problems. Particulate filters, injectors, re-circulation valves.
I'd guess that era of Mazda diesel with be a Ford unit? They also seem to smoke a lot due to leaky injectors and STINK because of it, but if you fix that I think they're mostly reliable.
10 years old and 140k miles - it's all about condition though, if it runs nicely, doesn't smoke and the car part of the car works okay it should be okay, but it's always a gamble with older cars, it'll probably be fine, it might give you some headaches or it might just decide destroy some part you've never heard of and write itself off.
My mondeo was on 162000 when I got rid.
Still drove fine.
With bangernomics you buy on condiition, you’re not bothered about what numbers are on the reg plate, or how many miles it’s done.
Ford Focus ST170 estate? Should be cheaper than the Mazda to buy (with less miles), petrol, reasonably quick with a great chassis and are starting to increase in value so if you look after it should be worth at least what you paid in a few years, if not more. Watch out for rust or cars that need a clutch and/or belts and you should be on to a winner!
I bought a Freelander last year with 201,000 miles - it's now on 210,000. Condition and history is everything. Mine was mint and came with a wodge of history so I could see it was a motorway cruiser (and all over Europe).
Freelander
This is your car on eBay...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/283977176305
...not sure I'd trust a seller who hides behind 761 feedback - but only 5 as a seller.
Go and look by all means - but be wary.
I had a previous generation Mazda6 estate and it was a great bike carrier and gave me 7 years almost trouble free motoring. I knew a few people who had horrible problems with their Mazda 6s and hated them. Mine was a petrol, there's were diesels!
I'd do a bit of googling to see if these problems have been fixed on the newer versions as the diesels were definitely problematic in the past
Ford Focus ST170 estate
Is that even a thing?
Is that even a thing?
Yep. Not many about but those that are tend to be well looked after and they do come up.
Rust is your enemy on a Mazda.
I'm surprised you aren't finding bargains. I sold my car last week and got next to nothing for it, it ended up with webuyanycar. Chatting to the guy there he said they've never been busier, mostly with people selling cars because they've lost their job. Also people buying cars in the up to £2k category just don't have spare cash to be buying right now. I would think there has never been a better time to pick up a cheap, well looked after workhorse. Long MOT and decent service history are a must, but shop around and don't be shy in expecting a low price.
For context I went into selling mine hoping for £1500, after a couple of weeks I'd have been happy with £750, ended up getting £300.
chestrockwell
Subscriber
Yep. Not many about but those that are tend to be well looked after and they do come up.
Mid-20s to the gallon though iirc? That's going to hurt for a car thats not actually fast.
That engine in the Mazda is fine but a bit more thirsty than it should be. I've got it in a Mondeo estate and generally get low(ish) 40s mpg. A manual should be slightly better but only to the tune of a couple of mpg iirc (as the auto is a dual-clutch number). I did have a nasty bill for a DPF, but you can't really predict that (when barely doing any short trips and lots of long ones)
At that end of the market, you've got to buy on condition/service history rather than a specific make/model per se.
That said, I'd look for Volvo or SAAB purely on the basis that owners tend to cherish these a bit more than some other marques. As this is STW, Skoda Octavia estate is probably also worth a look.
I'd steer clear of high mileage diesel personally, unless you're doing long journeys and/or can find something pre-DPF.
Does something like this meet with STW approval
I would if it's got decent history. As said above, that's not that many miles for a diesel (or any modern-ish car tbh), fewer than mine. It's not suspiciously few miles either so it'll probably have been getting a few decent runs in. Euro 4 so no worries about DPF which would otherwise be getting a on a bit at 140k. Suspension and running gear could be getting a bit tired, that'd be more of a worry than the engine.
Have a look for a Volvo V70? D5 engine is the best one and as long as its the pre 2005(?) facelift one it won't be restricted by euro 4 emissions and get decent mpg.
A few years ago I bought a 2004 Passat Estate 1.9 TDI PD130 engine on 192k, just going over 216k now and its been great, cost me £650 quid. It's massive, not completely slow and economical - I've averaged 45mpg with next to no work needed since. The suspension is tired now so will need some money spending in the next year or so.. Or just bin it and get another one.
Have a look for a Volvo V70? D5 engine is the best one and as long as its the pre 2005(?) facelift one it won’t be restricted by euro 4 emissions and get decent mpg.
D3 5cyl is what you want from a V70. It's a smaller, lower tune D5. Ours does about 50mpg on long run so not the best economy, but is £20 tax opposed to £300+ for a D5.
I think the Toyota Avensis is worth a punt, loved by the cheapskate and minicab motorist for a reason.
That said, buy on condition and the history.
I had a 59 reg 2.2 diesel (the non-estate version of that one)
great car, reliable af - but as the timing chain stretches, it allows the crank arm to go out of position - which in turn sets off a sensor on the DPF light which leads to a failed MOT or circa 1500 to fit a new chain
this happened to me end of last year (so not much older than the one you're looking at) I'd be wary of the diesel....but in petrol, it would be fine (unless the timing chain has been done)
I have a 2011 Merc C180, Petrol 7 speed auto estate. Had about 5k when I bought it as an ex demonstrator. Absolutely faultless. smooth as silk and a joy to drive. About 160k on the clock and everytime I consider replacing it I look at the circa £25k cost and the fact I would probably get about £3k for it. Its a sin to let it go for that much it is almost mint, full SH and even our local independent garage comments when I take it in for servie that its pristine for its age.
Actually test drove a 3 series last year as a replacement, it was rubbish in comparison (it was about 18 months old) but it was a much less enjoyable car to drive. Did try a 5 series which only just measured up to the drive of my 9 year old Merc.
Miles shouldn't be an issue til you're way above that point. Condition can be though.
My parts donor car is a 180000 miler... That wouldn't bother me at all as far as using it as a daily car, it really just needs a couple of minor things done for an MOT, but the 15 years of UK year round driving does, it's just one big rusty scab underneath and even normal everyday maintenance gets to be a chore when all the bolts have merged into the frame. My mondeo was getting to that point too.
Had to get rid of my Mazda 6 petrol when it got side swiped - it was at 170k - apart from battery change and an a/c clutch it was trouble free. Now have another Mazda 6 petrol and that's now at 130k trouble free miles 🙂
Volvo v70 163pre 05 will be dpf free
Honda accord cdti pre 07 will be dpf free, boot opener is a common fault
Vw passat 06 with the 1.9pd would be a good buy, electric handbrakes fail on some
Bmw, forget these too spendy and the common fault list is long and expensive
Toyota avensis are the taxi drivers choice
Or a E220cdi wagon. Not as ecpensive as you might think and but you must avoid 01 to 04 as i think that wad the rust years, and inj seals fail and the blow by turns to coal and welds the injectors in the head,
Alfa 159, pretty , but the swirl flaps fail on the deisel and all have dpfs
Ooo, I like that Saab. Almost tempted myself...
That Saab would be ace...
Mid-20s to the gallon though iirc? That’s going to hurt for a car thats not actually fast.
Nah, used to get 30/35 mpg out of mine. They need driving properly as all the shove is at the top of the rev range so the opposite of turbo diesels.
Is there a way of working out which diesels are pre-dpf, other than around pre-2006?
(Sorry for the slight hijack).
We have an 04 Passat estate pd 130 which we bought tatty with 99,000 ish miles on 4 years ago. In that time he has had no major problems, just service items. He's pretty nippy and we can leave him anywhere without a care. He takes the miles and dents to protect out T4 camper.
But be aware that this model suffers from having a comfort module in its own indent under the carpet in the passenger side footwell. Then occasionally water finds its way down there via the pollen filter or door seal as it gets worn and the modules own protective plastic box becomes a swimming pool.
Ours had had a bad repair which led to all sorts of electrical niggles with indicators, CL, alarm, etc. This was solved by buying a mint second hand unit with the multiplug and a friend carefully took all the wires out of the old corroded multi plug and soldered any wires that were knackered before fitting them to the new plug. We have just left this sat on top of the carpet where its safe from water.
The pollen filter can be sorted with sealant.
Our two 320D bangers are going pop. A motor for me is a tool not a toy so badges don't come into it. I wanted to move away from diesel, all those things to go wrong particularly on an older vehicle (we have been lucky), plus the particulates. So after reading reviews, threads and casting about for an 'interim' car that was petrol, not outrageous on the tax or insurance would take bikes, tent and a longboard, had tolerable MPG and good reliability. The solution that came up was the Avensis estate, off to see one this morning. Tedious but reliable.
As an aside - I picked up a 15 yr old Porsche Cayenne 3.2 V6 for just under 5K. 91k on the clock, 3 owners and a FSH. There are proper bargains out there if you look outside the box
Loads of online instructions on repairs, it’s not the big V8 with numerous issues and the engine is based on a flawless VW one. Plentiful cheap spares cos the chassis is essentially the Touareg, and it huge inside.
It does have the wiring splice swimming pool issue as mentioned by Mugboo but it’s easy to keep on top of it as a DIYer (until the crankshaft nearing goes)
Cars without DPF
Very interesting, thanks. I was labouring under the misapprehension that anything Euro 4 and earlier wouldn't have a DPF, it's obviously not that simple!
We had an 05 Mazda6 petrol, it was great. Passed it on to a friend and it's still going strong. I'd look for another if we needed anything like that again.
As above, my bro-in-law has an Avensis and it is solid. The Mazda is more fun to drive, albeit that's not saying much really.
Aren't diesels terrible for the environment? I'm in the same boat as OP and have ruled diesels out because of Nox etc.
Aren’t diesels terrible for the environment? I’m in the same boat as OP and have ruled diesels out because of Nox etc.
No, with latest emission control systems they are quite clean and efficient. But with those systems their don't last as long or require expensive repairs.
With the caveat that I've never owned a proper high-mileage car, members of my family have had plenty of 200k+ motors and I wouldn't be put off by that personally.
If anything, for a ten year old car, you sort of want/expect it to have done 100k+ as it implies it's done more longer trips which is going to be kinder on it than lots of small "to the shops" type journeys.
Here's an example of a 500k mile Audi:
Without wanting to spoil the video 🙂 the Audi needed about £1500 spending on it to sort out suspension bits, brakes, and fix up some damage from a suspected front-end shunt. Not bad for 500k, albeit 500k of regular servicing.
All this said, I personally tend to steer clear of diesel because:
* DPF worries: I don't do enough miles to make the regen stuff work well, and DPF is a consumable in the circa-100k region
* diesel engines generally are more complicated and have more stuff to go wrong (e.g. injectors, turbo, egr tends to get clogged more readily) -- although I suspect the modern tendency for petrol cars to have smaller turbo-charged engines may change that picture
Ford Focus ST170 estate? Should be cheaper than the Mazda to buy (with less miles), petrol, reasonably quick with a great chassis and are starting to increase in value so if you look after it should be worth at least what you paid in a few years, if not more. Watch out for rust or cars that need a clutch and/or belts and you should be on to a winner!
That's not bangernomics, it's man maths.
Works fine if you throw away credit card bills and receipts immediately.
As someone said further up, buy on condition not numbers (or brand, fuel type stereotypes, etc.). Loads spent on it recently means nothing too, could mean the mechanic has given them a heads up on something else expensive, could just mean everything that was about to go pop isn't any more.
This one has way less miles and is half the price (currently £820).
Please do your homework regarding Mazda Diesels. They did not use the same engine as the Mondeo did. Ford used Peugeot/Ford engines. The Mazda diesels at the price point you’re looking at were a disaster. Check Honest Johns website. The petrols were far superior.
Not a lot of 'get up and go' but we have one of the last Astra G estates 04 plate. 1.6 8v It's been a great old thing, £350 5 years ago and only consumables in that time.
It's been to Alp duez a few times and was used for a commute of Reading to Oxford for a year or so.
It's quite surprising how many I still see trundling about
As for the ad referred to in the OP, anyone who puts "1st to see WILL buy at this give away price" can **** right off.
It's up there with, easy fix or just needs a re-gas.
Done a lot of miles… should that be a worry? How well do diesels last?
Well, I bought my Octavia fifteen years ago with 82k on the clock. For much of that time it did an average of about 5k/year, but for the last three years it’s been doing about 10k, 155 miles/week for work. It’s showing nearly 156k now, and I’ll be getting rid of it soon, just because it’ll need money spent on the ABS/TRC system to go through the MOT in October, and the car is worth nothing after someone hit the front wing, it was valued at £900 about a year ago, and I kept the car and accepted £680 from the insurance.
It’s never been serviced. Still pulls like a train. 1.9 TDi, 110bhp. Diesels are very simple, they’re compression/ignition engines, burn oil, so lube issues are less of an issue.
Its replacement is a 1.0 petrol that delivers 125bhp - less than a year old with just over 3k on the clock, it will get a regular service! Smaller, lighter car, about 50/mile consumption, apparently, but I’ve had 60/per from the Octy on long runs.
It’s never been serviced
No oil or filter changes in 70k+ miles, that’s impressive, and I thought I was pushing it only changing oil every 30k.
Well, I bought my Octavia fifteen years ago
So old diesel technology.
Don't confuse This with modern diesel technology
And be prepared to be disappointed with having to actually take care of your new car.
My Passat is 9 years old and on 102k miles now. I'd like to get another 50k out of it. I do get it serviced in line with every time it beeps at me as I cant stand the warning beeps and lights on the dash. Dives me mad, i know I'm a sucker for the recommended service interval but i cant take the beep every time you turn it on outside of the service intervals. Its like the car calling me out as a cheap ass.
Volvo V70 here, 2004 year 190k miles, 2.4non turbo petrol.
I do the oil every 5k miles, major service every 10k. Genuine Volvo parts or OEM (Lemforder/Mahle etc). Wants for nothing.
Coming up for a £2.5k ish midlife makeover in a few weeks - new steering rack, 2nd set of wishbones & other front end bits plus a bit of body shop stuff and a leather repair job on the driver's seat.
Just because it's old doesn't mean it's not worth spending on.
Annual trip to Perpignan
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Got Avensis estate this morning. Just been through the papers and adding together what he paid a year ago plus a couple of repairs, I paid half that. Self-employed and keen to get some readies, I gave him the asking. Everyone happy but there are certainly bargains to be had.
That Saab is cool... But aren't they in the £500+ VED bracket? Not sure I could handle paying a third of a car's cost just to tax it for the year. Does mean there's some bargains out there in that bracket though.
Avensis is definitely in the bargain bucket uncool category, would be top of my list for what you want.
Dunno how far back "old tech" goes, pre DPF? Neither of my PSA 2.0s (both 2009) have ever had a DPF issue barring when the rubber diff sensor plumbing burnt out in the Mondeo, cost all of fifteen quid for some silicone hose and fine since. As noted above though we do the miles, distance and clear runs to keep them happy. EGRs have been mostly fine (unlike my old Civic which used to gum up the turbo vanes with soot because it was over sized for the engine), the C8 needed a new one when I got it which was £80 and a couple of awkward hours thanks to the bodywork rather than anything else. The old one has been kept and I'll clean it up and fling it back on if I need to replace it again as it's just soot buildup that causes it to stick if you catch it early enough (otherwise you'll probably burn out the valve seat).
Finally no DPF doesn't necessarily translate to no expense, Citroen/Peugeot loved Eolys additive for a while which came with a lot of software and hardware issues meaning eventual resets and refills which either need proprietary hardware or extremely toxic chemicals, both of which are expensive in themselves.
As a marker, FSH, some MOT, 240 tax, 42mpg, 2007, no rust, 72k, £1850. At least the aircon is very cool.
We have an avensis for work and it's the most boringly competent tool I think I've ever used for anything. Not as big inside as it probably should be considering its bulk but otherwise it's really pretty great, as long as you never want it to do anything interesting.