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The irony is that the car supermarket put it through a MOT before sale.
Might be worth reporting the MOT tester in question to VOSA at the same time - clearly a fudged MOT.
Call me a cynic - but I'd bet the 'car supermarket' use this 'friendly MOT tester' to push a lot of lemons out of the door.
EDIT:
The Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) has closed. It's been replaced by the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency (DVSA).
shittinell
Did they give an estimate to repair?
I know as another poster has said, don't get emotional about it / I know what the mature response is - put it now in the hands of the CC company and let it run its course.
But at the same time they've been such a dick about it, I think you're entitled to now be a dick back, and at least make him sweat a bit.
**
Dear Gregory
As requested I took the car to a garage and asked for a full condition report. Given their findings I have asked them to formalise this for me including a cost to repair, but in summary they have identified the following:
<short list of all the faults>
Once i have this report I shall be forwarding along with our correspondence to appropriate parties in order to seek full recompense for the vehicle and additional out of pocket costs incurred in resolving this matter.
They also confirmed that the vehicle has clear faults that make it an absolute MOT failure, which make it unlikely to have passed prior to sale, and that the MOT tester should be reported to DVSA. Please confirm the details I have from the MOT checker are correct for the garage you use. <you can get this with Reg and VIN from https://www.check-mot.service.gov.uk/results?registration=WU19ZSZ+&checkRecalls=true>
Love and kisses;
They haven't put a cost on it as its going to be quite a lot to sort. However they did say that if needed they could break it all down. I cant imagine adaptive dampers are going to be cheap.
The year is 2854. The last traces of human civilisation are little more than dust, except at this garage where they are still disputing their liability over a shonky car.
Section 75 might take time, but you will be successful. Good luck.
Shocking, but your case is now very clear and strong, the Credit card charge back thing should be simple. The card provider asked for the report didn't they? If so id ask them to pay tne costs of it. The other option i guess is small claims court to recover from tne garage.
The letter suggested by the other jonv seems about right, other than asking for the reimbursement of the report costs.
The letter suggested by the other jonv seems about right, other than asking for the reimbursement of the report costs.
And the time spent taking the car back and fourth @ minimum wage, £12.21 per hour.
Plus petrol
Think I'd be tempted to drive it back to the dealership with all paperwork and keys and leave it there with him, stating as per correspondence you've rejected the car and expect the refund to be processed within the week.
Then just walk away.
He doesn't think you've the balls to go through with your rejection hence he's stringing you along.
I agree.
I agree.
I'd be careful... If the situation escalates you need to demonstrate you're as pure as the driven snow...
And show their actions to be in bad faith all the way along, which shouldn't be too difficult by the sounds of it.
Does it really matter where the car is? Having a standoff and them refusing to accept the keys back etc. won't help the situation.
The car is rejected and that's all that really matters. The garage can collect it at their expense, or the OP can deliver it to them via prior agreement & arrangement. There's no amicable relationship now, the relationship has irrevocably broken down.
Turning up, slinging the keys at them and stomping off, is probably not the best course of action.
I'm guessing Renton is still using the car though. If he's rejected it, should he still be driving it?
I don't think so.
Nope.
I’m not using it. I’ve literally driven it back from the car supermarket when they said it was fixed and the yesterday to and from the independent garage.
Struggling around to get a car to use within the family at the moment.
That must be very awkward but I think it's right not to use it.
Legally he can't. The indie garage has notified him of at least one, maybe more MOT failure points, so using it other than to drive to a garage to get it fixed would break the law. Insurance void, etc.
I'd add a comment to this effect to the bottom of my suggested response:
As I have now had it confirmed that the vehicle is not roadworthy (MOT failure faults) I am without use of the vehicle. Up to now I have managed to work around this at great inconvenience but I am not prepared to accept this any longer. I shall be hiring a car - I will of course minimise costs as much as possible - and I will be including this cost in any future claim I make against <garage name>
If you have a courtesy car you can provide in the meantime, I would be happy to use that, but note it would have to be delivered to me as i have no means to get to you to collect it.
**
even if the CC company refunds, I still reckon you can small claims for this (and the cost of the garage report, etc.)
Good point.
even if the CC company refunds, I still reckon you can small claims for this (and the cost of the garage report, etc.)
Car cost £15k so it's above the small claim ceiling. It'll be proper lawyer and court if the credit card don't come through.
Both rear shocks are worn/weak and noisy in operation. Garage have said the shocks need replacing.
They probably would though!
Be careful of the indy report if you've explained to them what's going on and why you want the report - there's a chance they'll add literally everything they can find to the report in the hope that they get to replace lots of stuff regardless of how 'worn'.
It's a used car and all parts are going to show wear but the question is whether that wear is within acceptable limits.
(I know the suspension on my car is worn but it still flies through its MOT's)
I'd be tempted to have it MOT'd again somewhere else without supplying any back story to see if the supplying garage have fudged the MOT.
Both rear shocks are worn/weak and noisy in operation. Garage have said the shocks need replacing.
They probably would though!
Be careful of the indy report if you've explained to them what's going on and why you want the report - there's a chance they'll add literally everything they can find to the report in the hope that they get to replace lots of stuff regardless of how 'worn'.
It's a used car and all parts are going to show wear but the question is whether that wear is within acceptable limits.
(I know the suspension on my car is worn but it still flies through its MOT's)I'd be tempted to have it MOT'd again somewhere else without supplying any back story to see if the supplying garage have fudged the MOT.
Why ? He's got plenty to go back to the vendor and the courts/claims, no point doing anything else unless he was considering keeping it.
Trouble with MOT's is they can be a bit variable/subjective. I know they're supposed to be held to a common standard but in practice, they're often not. We all know of the dodgy garage locally that would pass almost anything. This doesn't help Renton, just beware.
Why ?
Because it could be argued [in court] that the indy has given a biased report in the hope that they get a fat repair job. By having an anonymous MOT done it might give a fairer picture.
(if the indy didn't know the back story then this is all mute)
I know they're supposed to be held to a common standard but in practice, they're often not.
Exactly - two MOT's failing the car on the same things has more credence.
(and the headlight motor - it may well be frozen but if the light is still pointing within the target area for the MOT then it's not a fail)
If a headlamp motor is fitted it needs to work.
"Vehicles with high intensity discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with a suspension or headlamp self-levelling system. If these systems have been fitted, they must work."
"Vehicles with high intensity discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with a suspension or headlamp self-levelling system. If these systems have been fitted, they must work."
ahhh fair enough 👍
Car cost £15k so it's above the small claim ceiling. It'll be proper lawyer and court if the credit card don't come through.
Well, just to update.
Ive just had an email back from the credit card provider saying they have gone back to the merchant and asked for a full refund.
Not sure entierly what that means or if the merchant can refuse etc?
I'm talking about incidentals that are being incurred because of the garage's inability to resolve this quickly.
Ah, OK.
Yeah, that'd be a final kick in the teeth for the garage after they've had to process the credit card refund...
Which is great news!
I don't know if the garage can refuse, but I guess the risk is they don't get to process that credit card in future, which they'd definitely not want.
If it's the same process I went through with Booking.com last year the first stage is just a request and each stage will take time. I would suggest asking the CC provider for clarification of the process.Well, just to update.
Ive just had an email back from the credit card provider saying they have gone back to the merchant and asked for a full refund.Not sure entierly what that means or if the merchant can refuse etc?
As far as I'm aware on this, the CC company will _ask_ for a refund first. The dealer can transfer the funds to them and won't incur any fees. If this doesn't happen within the CC's proposed timescale (and I don't know what that is), the CC can enforce a chargeback through the dealer's card processing provider, the company who owns and runs the card machine(s) the dealer uses. At this point, the dealer will also have to pay significant fees.
I run a small bike shop and we've never actually had to deal with this, but as far as I know our card processing provider's chargeback fee is about 8%.
Ive just had a reply back from the CC and they have said that if the claim is upheld and the merchant refuse to pay, then the CC would pay out. However they may ask me to go to we buy any car and see what they offer and if its less than the contract amount then the CC would pay the difference.
They then go onto to say that at this point the outcome of the claim has not been finalised.
They give the merchant 7-14 days to reply
Ive just had a reply back from the CC and they have said that if the claim is upheld and the merchant refuse to pay, then the CC would pay out. However they may ask me to go to we buy any car and see what they offer and if its less than the contract amount then the CC would pay the difference.
They then go onto to say that at this point the outcome of the claim has not been finalised.
They give the merchant 7-14 days to reply
How can you sell a car that doesn't work/has multiple issues to WBAC ?
How can you sell a car that doesn't work/has multiple issues to WBAC ?
'Cos they'll buy *any* car?
How can you sell a car that doesn't work/has multiple issues to WBAC ?
They will buy anything. You may not get much for it but they'll buy it,
Most people don't tell WBAC of the faults (especially if they're looking to maximise their payment).
Actual chuckle at the naivety! Why do you think their offers are so low? Yes they have to make profit by selling it on to trade etc, but they also need to take into account the large number of people that palm off absolute lemons on to them that they then can't even get on the trailer as they've just put a rod through the block.
WBAC is British Car Auctions, they know exactly what cars are selling for at their auctions and price accordingly.
if the merchant can refuse etc?
They can try but the card company will remove their merchant services ability. Which will hurt cashflow somewhat.
Any update on this ?
Nothing yet.
Waiting to hear from the credit card who are in turn probably still waiting to hear from the car garage. I believe they give them 7-14 days to respond
Good luck Renton, I'm sure you'll get it sorted.
WBAC will knock off £2.5k for warning lights on the dash.
Mind you they must pay peanuts as the employees sometimes don't mind if you cancel the lights with an OBD reader while they try to get a photo of the dash with the lights off............. Allegedly.
Luckily there are no warning lights on at the moment.
I’m hoping the garage will just stump up rather than the WBAC option but I’m not holding my breath
Just as an update:
No news really. Tomorrow is day 14 of the credit card giving the merchant 7-14 days to refund. Ive sent a couple of email to see if there were any updates but had no reply.
No contact with the garage either.
This is all starting to really stress me out and run me down. Im not giving up though.
**** me gently with a chainsaw, is this still going on?
If you can get as far up here as Whitefield I'll pour coffee down your face and give you a cuddle. Binners is on standby for emergency pastries.
This is all starting to really stress me out and run me down. Im not giving up though.
I admire your determination. Try and focus on the fact that when this gets sorted out those shysters will be having a far worse day than you will be enjoying.