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There’s no hope when the manager can’t even be bothered to sense/spellcheck his response.
No fight needed. Just copy, paste send what I wrote. Do it now, then you aren't stewing tonight.
I included the last para and would do so because it reiterates that he is accepting that he is breaking consumer law. He won't answer it because that signs his agreement to it, but I'd still include it.
Your reiteration that you know your rights and won't accept any other resolution will win in the end. You might need to send it again, shorter each time.
"I refer you to my previous email, Yours etc." or as other have said, you could say this is your final correspondence before taking action.
At the same time, keep it booked in for Weds but ask them to review all three parts and quote to put all three right, itemised. It'll enable you to either evidence that he has failed to repair via an independent third party, and then CC recharge him. Or he'll shit at paying retail rate and get it back so he can do it on the cheap and sell to another punter who might not be so dogged.
Cheers all.
Do you think it’s worth seeing how the section 75 claim pans out first or just go straight for LBA to run alongside the section 75
As you've paid by CC and have benefit of Sect 75 I don't think you have any need of a LBA myself.
If CC reject your chargeback (and I can't for the life of me think why) then you can go legal. I wouldn't do both simultaneously, you might end up incurring legal costs you struggle to recoup, you still have a duty to minimise losses to all parties.
Yeah agreed.. One step at a time or it will get really messy.
You've got time and due process on your side so no need to jump the gun.
If I leave it to the credit card would you still advise to reply to his email above with the template above.
Also should I let him know about the other missing bolts and under tray and that I’ve booked it in for an independent inspection ready to take further.
Thoughts welcome.
The earlier you record any further problems you've found the better imv.
The LBA incurs no costs, it's the last chance before formal proceedings. So id proceed with that now.
Really sad that you are being put through this.
That's a lot of words.
"Dear manager, I am rejecting the vehicle as per my previous correspondence."
Stop booking it in for things. You are rejecting it.
As I said to TJ when he said the same, if they're now at a 'I want my stat rights' / 'I'm not giving you them' impasse then the OP has to escalate. Via S75/CC, they want an indie report. If OP went to a civil claim, then an indie report is going to be very useful. No harm in prepping for that in parallel to reissuing demand for refund under CRA2015
Re what to do next - For now, I'd send the email rejecting his suggestion of a warranty fix as per previous.
I would tell the CC company that is what you have done but this is last chance and if he does not refund then you will be progressing under S75, etc., and it's booked in for Weds in case he hasn't agreed to refund beforehand.
No harm in saying to him in clear terms this is final correspondence on the matter and if a full refund isn't agreed by ...... then you will be taking steps to enforce your statutory rights via other means. You don't have to say CC-S75 or civil courts, he should be able to work it out.
Those saying issue a LBA - I'm not sure know what an LBA actually is. It's not simply a letter saying that 'this is your last chance, next step will be action'. A LBA is a formal part of the legal process and at that point you then have to start following formal court rules etc., so isn't a trivial matter.
A LBA is a formal part of the legal process and at that point you then have to start following formal court rules etc., so isn't a trivial matter.
I'm aware what it is, and that would be my route to a resolution but now the credit card refund route has started that boat has sailed for now.
I'd be concerned what happens if the credit card co refuse the claim or offer back way less than you expect, you're into battling a bank then rather than a shady car dealer.
It was also why I asked if the car cost more than £10x because if it's less the small claim process is way easier that getting a proper, (expensive) lawyer involved as I understand it.
Thanks all.
In the final letter ✉️ send him then shall I say other issues have been found such as the missing under tray and that should he fail to issues the refund under the CRA I have it booked in for an independent inspection and will be taking steps to enforce my stat rights via other means.
Just want to make sure it’s worded correctly.
Thanks for all the help guys it’s well appreciated
No need to. KIS, you already made your case clear and that you expected a refund on that basis and nothing else.
Just reiterate that point and (my opinion) ask him again on what basis he feels that the CRA2015 / your statutory rights do not need to be met.
ie: make him tell you he is refusing to (which he won't, because he knows he can't)
The rest can be advised after the indie inspection, if it gets to it.
If it gets to it - I can't see why the CC co would reject, they are jointly liable and the case is clear. Only argument would be the deduction for usage.
Either way, I really hope you get it sorted Renton, what an utter PITA. Let us know how you get on.
Actually a LBA pretty much is a letter saying 'last chance, do this to resolve the issue, by x date, or I may begin legal process to resolve '. A Google AI generated description is....
A Letter Before Action (LBA), also known as a "letter before claim," is a formal legal notice sent to another party to formally demand payment or resolution of a dispute before initiating court proceedings. It serves as a final opportunity to settle the matter outside of court, outlining the issue, the amount owed or the action required, a deadline for response, and the consequences of non-compliance, which typically include the start of court action. Sending an LBA is often a mandatory step under the Civil Procedure Rules (CPR) to ensure parties consider settlement and engage in pre-action conduct, though it can be a powerful way to spur the recipient into action and avoid costly litigation.
My opinion, no. You made your case clear previously, just reiterate that and that you want a refund as per your statutory rights, this is your final correspondence.
Also my opinion, ask him again to clarify why he feels your stat rights are not applicable here (he won't, he can't, but just drives point home that he is breaking the law)
I wouldn't confuse further with other issues now, all was already clear cut. If he continues to reject you can include them as part of the third party inspection of what is wrong and what needs fixing (and what it costs)
Re the CC co not offering a refund....they're jointly liable as if you'd bought from them so same law and deductions apply - only thing they could argue is the benefit you've had from it, which is covered by the offered deduction; they might not be willing to negotiate on this over the inconvenience factor.
I wouldn't mention anything else that you have found. When you hand over the car for the inspection, make sure *they* know, so then, when you get the report back, it will list all the issues you have found (and the dealer knows about) *plus* a load more of additional issues on top.
Citizens advice page on LBA, which sets out what to say.
Problems with goods - letter before court action - Citizens Advice https://share.google/0fjDxlphHcafaB4z6
(I demand a refund on the forum, glitches and posts not showing made me think it was lost so I typed it all out again)
Just sent the email now.
Appreciate the direction.
Latest reply from the garage:
Dear Steve
You made an agreement outside and that is why you took the vehicle back home. This is an act of accepting what we discussed and I will honor that agreement.
If this is not the case you would have left the vehicle and travelled back with your wife in the vehicle you came in.
Kind regards
Gregory Jackson
@Renton you've not named the dealership so far but leaving the guys name above makes it very easy to find out. How poetic that you no longer trust this motor...
What agreement, verbal or otherwise, did you make?
I'd suggest even if you did it is voided when the quality of the repair was revealed.
At least you now know why he feels you have accepted the repair option.
And he did name the dealership, in the text of the letter.
When I realised the headlight hadn’t been sorted I tried to reject the car again and he refused stating iit was sorted.
Then when I pointed out the actual issue he agreed it hadn’t been fixed and suggested that we take the vehicle and get a local garage diagnose and then he would approve a warranty fix.
Obviously I wasn’t happy with this but felt pressured and didn’t think we had any other option.
I did make him aware that I wasn’t happy with this and it wasn’t followed up by either party in an email.
The thing is as the further issues came to light with the turbo install etc I decided I didn’t want to do that.
Have I screwed myself.
I have just replied to him referring him to a previous email that state me taking the vehicle does not constitute my acceptance of the vehicle.
No, because the facts remain, he has had chances to fix it and has failed. You have made it harder, as others have said wtf did you agree to take it away when the situation was clearly not fixed? Why didn't you follow up any verbal agreement by email?
If it comes to a true impasse / legal case then before that you are expected to try to find a compromise and what he is now suggesting doesn't seem unreasonable tbh. Especially if you kind of accepted that basis. Except it doesn't deal with your lack of faith in the car now.
My instinct is S75 it through the cc company but you're going to have to be honest about what you 'agreed' and why you took it away again.
And in parallel get that indie report covering all its faults which you'll need either for the s75, or to make a claim, or opt3 to give back to the dealer saying that this is what needs doing and you'll arrange it as his garage is shit, and he can either pay for it or you'll small claims court it as the repair will be under £10k.
“Dear Gregory,
I don’t recall agreeing to give my rights away. Please swivel.
Hope your chickens die,
Renton
x”
that should do it
This is what I’ve just sent in return:
Gregory
I refer you to my previous email dated 22nd Aug where I state:
/ Given my lack of confidence in you, taking the car back does not constitute my final acceptance. If any of these faults recur, or new faults connected to the repairs occur, within the 6mo period after purchase I will consider that you have failed to meet your opportunity to repair and I will expect a refund as per the CRA
You refused point blank in person to accept my rejection of the vehicle whilst we were there when I pointed out the issues.
With us not being experts in UK law we felt we had no option to do anything else other than take the car despite point out numerous issues.
This isn’t for us to claim on the warranty this is your responsibility under the CRA to repair the vehicle in a timely manner with in the first 6 months.
Having driven the vehicle home with issues still occurring and other issues with the turbo replacement coming to light we are not going to get a diagnostic done on the headlight.
Given you have had the vehicle for 4 weeks to be able to do this and there are still issues that were mentioned in the original email you have failed to carry this out.
Again, also as per my email "If you do not agree to the above, I require in writing within 48 hours your explanation. Please included which parts of the CRA you feel do not apply, and why you are not obliged to provide me with my statutory rights as described above"
Kind regards
Even if I have screwed myself over the headlight the face remains that the oil and smoke issue and also the knocking issue remain.
They have attempted to diagnose the oil and smoke issue by replacing the turbo which hasn’t fixed the issue and has also thrown up further issues with the standard of workmanship
do compo sad face for the local paper
No you haven't undermined your case. You've not given up your statutory rights and taking the car didn't incur extra costs for the garage. You're fine, and doing well in the face of a very awkward garage who, no doubt, have had lots of experience of similar and this isn't a stress for them.
Keep going
Aside: given that I'm just up the road I'd appreciate knowing who the dealer is so that I can tell everyone I've ever met to avoid them. Feel free to PM me if you don't feel comfortable publicly name-and-shaming.
It's in the big letter of yesterday, Motor Trust Bury, and almost £15k paid.
I just googled them and their Trust pilot suggests you aren't the only one to have had this experience....I'm increasingly thinking make it a CC S75 issue.
Crikey, your car is still not fixed? I feel your stress.
How can a garage be so poor in customer service and fixing a car is still survive as a business.
What is the garage problem? Sounds like they cannot even take a hit (loss making) for just one car. If so their business must be bad. I foresee the garage will not last long in current economy climate, if they cannot even fix a car.
I think once the car is "fixed" just sell it and get a non-turbo version boring but reliable Japanese/Korean car (they are generally reliable, easy to fix but boring and not as good looking as the German brands).
I mentioned early on in the thread I'd been to this garage looking for a van sized people carrier. There was one missing all three rear seats and another in terrible condition at the back of the showroom with knackered electric doors and ripped seats. There were other cars in the sales are that weren't good.
Mentioned the place to my son and he had heard of their bad reputation. That's when I looked them up.
The garage doesn’t employ its own mechanics apparently and so everything that is requiring a repair is farmed out to ‘trusted’ garages.
I could give you the name of who did the turbo replacement but don’t think that would help.
The dealer manager who I have been dealing with is adamant that his trusted mechanic has done an excellent job of replacing the turbo and that he hasn’t done anything wrong. So far there is a loose hose flapping about, two bolts missing that I can see from the top side and the massive under tray missing. Coupled with this the car now has a whistle when the turbo kicks in, not loud like some cars but enough for me to hear with my dodgy hesring. If you google turbo whistle it says it could be either a boost leak or suspect bearings in the turbo.
He is also blatantly taking the piss with the headlight. I gave a very good explanation in the first email I sent to them back in July saying what I thought the issue was which is probably something to do with a headlight leveling motor. Originally he claimed to no know anything about this issue after 3 weeks of having the car even after me chasing a number of times and specifically asking about it. In the end all he has done has had the headlight beam alignment done and said it’s fixed.
As for the suspension knocking. I can still hear it over rough tarmac and bits of the road where there are different surface types.
The manager is so nonchalant and smarmy about it all. Refusing my rejection in person and claiming the car is fixed.
I felt really put on the spot and pressured to take it when we were up there. My wife bless is 6 weeks into a full hip replacement and offered to come with me so she could drive her car back.
from the trustpilot reviews, seems like they do this delay, deny, avoid stuff and trouble is, too many seem to have caved and ended up with 'in the end I just fixed it myself' type outcomes.
DON'T BE THAT PERSON, YOU HAVE LAW ON YOUR SIDE AND YOU ARE BETTER INFORMED THANKS TO ADVICE ON HERE
My inclination is to say that you don't accept his version as a solution, the car still isn't repaired so your statutory rights haven't been met. So you will now be referring to the CC company for a S75 chargeback, and follow that through. Then ignore anything else he sends unless it's an 'OK, I agree to the refund'
Oh dear, with reviews like that it would seem they won't back down. It's credit card or court.
At some point you're going to have to take the car back to them and hand back the keys. Is it worth speaking to the credit card issuer to see if you need to do that before they let you know the outcome of your claim?
I’m not sure but I think if I get refunded by the cc I just have to make the car available for the garage to collect.
Let’s not get ahead of myself though !!
I'm reticent to ask but.... any progress?
No news really.
Garage haven’t replied to my last email.
Car is currently sat at a local vw/audi specialist for them to do the independent report. Was meant to be done today but two technicians were off sick so being done tomorrow hopefully.
Just been and collected the car from the garage and now have a report. Doesnt make for great reading to be fair.
Suspension wise: The knocking is down to the one of the front shocks leaking and both lower control arm rear bushes delaminating. Both rear shocks are worn/weak and noisy in operation. Garage have said the shocks need replacing. As they are adaptive dampers this isnt going to be cheap.
Headlight: Levelling motor not working: Needs a new headlamp as the motor isnt replaceable on its own.
Oil usage and smoking: PCV system and solenoid have failed which is causing excessive crankcase pressure which in turn is causing the engine oil to be burnt off. This means the original garage have misdiagnosed the issue and the original turbo potentially didn't need to be replaced. The inspecting garage have also noted the missing bollts and undertray on the report.
Just need tro send this off to the credit card now and really keep my fingers crossed they accept it.
Damn! That report is really bad!
Well.. Good for you but bad news for the moocher who sold it to you.
Follow process... Don't get emotional about it.. And you'll easily nail them to the wall.
That's utterly shocking.
They totally sold you a pig in a poke, and they damn well know it. They are just hoping you'll go away as I suspect they probably have form for this and have gotten away with it in the past.
I'd let the credit card charge back play out...
But I feel somewhat frustrated for you as going to court you could also claim back the costs of the diagnosis and dicking about...
I mean these are all faults that would be fairly apparent when they were prepping the car for sale..
Bloody thieves!
The irony is that the car supermarket put it through a MOT before sale.