[Closed] How exactly have humanity been fooled into thinking that?

you have to accept that cars are needed in the modern world

There's that word "need" again.

Do so many people really "need" to live bloody miles away from where they work?

Do so many people "need" cars for every member of the family and a couple of spares?

Do people "need" to make ridiculous short journeys when they could easily walk or cycle?

The point is that driving is not without cost and that most of the cost is born by people who get no benefit from it - ie indigenous populations who have their resources exploited to manufacture and power it and the entire global population that will bear the cost of climate change if we don't curb car use.

There's that word "need" again.

However, understanding where those traits came from, and justifying their continued proliferation in the face of mounting evidence that its destroying our planet, are two different things.

+1. We aren't in caves anymore and don't have to behave like alpha's, we are at least intelligent enough to know this. Except when we are coerced into thinking primitively, "survival of the fittest" looking after no.1.

We have a fleeting existence on this rock, and we waste it worrying about man made problems such as global economics and the like. Is all this stuff strictly necessary? While Humans have always traded, it has come to the point where it dominates our lives pretty much all the time. Time to turn the control down from number 11.

Or even time to throw it away. This may not be in-keeping with the environmentalist agenda of the OP, but this is something I certainly wouldn't want re-cycled.

We can't keep consuming the way we are, we may think we are trying to give our Children a good future, but in my view we are damaging it.

It's curious how we are made to think about economics on a global scale, all our economies are interconnected, yet we are still in competition with everyone else over everything else, nation against nation competing with each other. Perhaps one day will think of Humanity on a global scale, instead of just what nationality we are.

My inner hippy has now retreated back into the cupboard, but will be putting in more regular appearances in the future. 8)

RPRT - as it happens I tend to agree with you BUT I don't pretend to be all holier than thou nor do I stereotype people by the car they drive...

FWIW I live a couple of miles away from my work and cycle in whenever possible. My total annual car mileage is around 6000 miles. I do like driving cars though.

I wonder how that compares with the hair shirt brigade on here... 🙂

fervouredimage - Member

A night out with you must be a barrel of laughs.

I believe the correct response is to post-up a piccie of a handbag but I don't think that'll be very constructive.

I must say that your reaction has given rise to a few chuckles this end and if I were you I'd take a stand back and have a think about why you really repsonded to that post at all. But let's take a look at it for a second - you're attempting to take the piss out of me for having a real-world version of the discussion we're having right here on this thread. You've also expressed opinions on this topic and I'm assuming you formulated them before today, which means there's a good chance you've gone over them with another person at some point, although that's obviously a guess and not a given. Surely, taking both points into account, you can see the absurdity of your somewhat flippant comment ?

And the first response was also rather childish...

No, not really, because you've picked on an utterly moot point and ignored the over arching theme of my post.

I've re-read your post and still can't see anything in my response that makes you think I don't understand you. You used words like "absolutely" and "unequivocally" in relation to how folk percieve themselves.

As others are quoting Fight Club I'll follow...

[i]I would flip through catalogs and wonder, "What kind of dining set defines me as a person?" We used to read pornography. Now it was the Horchow Collection.
[/i]
Kind of captures your point, yes? Now whilst I agree with it to some extent I wouldn't be so gullible as to propose that everyone fell into that catagory. How could I possibly know for sure. I doubt I'd be able to give even a close approximation to the percentages to be honest.

Your statement was, as I wrote, a sweeping generalisation. If I've missed the point then maybe you'd like to elaborate instead of sulk. I know I'd feel the need to express further if I felt I'd been misunderstood, maybe you do too, considering the gravity of the subject, eh...

I wonder how that compares with the hair shirt brigade on here...

That's not really the point.

How you compare with others in the UK isn't really significant.

How WE compare with people in other countries is way more important.

The difficult truth is that OUR way of living is unsustainable - it's too resource intensive and too polluting to continue - if you are relying on having everything you have now in the future then you are deluded. If you really want to do something for yourself then you should follow the likes of Edukator and ween yourself off stuff you don't need now while you can do it painlessly instead of waiting for it to be taken away. Living with less isn't about being virtuous, it's about being resilient and protecting yourself from inevitable future shock.

http://www.guylaramee.com/index.php?/intro/
was looking at this today.it's pretty good.

'night.

RPRT - by the way you dodged the question I suspect my way of life probably has less impact than yours so I think it is you that has missed the point...

Easy to talk the talk though, eh. What are YOU personally doing?

So to recap, even though the natural resources of this world are running out, even though the planets surface is becoming more and more inhospitable to our race, even though there is an entire universe of dangers out there in the vast ness of space and much closer.

It is more important for each of us to exercise our right as free individuals and put our perspective across, than it is to work together to make the world a better place, who needs development and evolution, when you could go for the big online thread win, you ass is grass bitch an I iz de vaporizer.

That gentle madams and ladies is the problem, we need to stay focused on the solutions to our problems and stop the psychological sabre rattling, we are a race with the capacity to understand the very laws of creation, there is nothing on earth or in the heavens that could be denied us.

But do not let that stop you, prepare your hand bags keyboard badass's, CARRY ON!

[quote=kaesae]I want a house not too big, too much tidying, in the middle of knowhere, workshop for my bikes, study for my company and a woodland close by.
Keep it simple, but appreciate what you have

I'm lucky enough to live somewhere very similar to what you describe.

Small 2 bedroom cottage surrounded by fields, which I have insulated to levels that means it needs hardly any heating even in the middle of winter.
12v lighting powered by solar (battery storage) so rarely need mains power for lighting.

Not quite energy neutral yet but getting there.

My workshop is bigger than the house (and I spend more time in than I do in the house.)

We have worked hard, but we hardly consume much at all now we are sorted.

I want a property that's a good size, not massive and only for function, but I really want to build it myself with a different take on technology in relation to energy consumption!

Have you ever considered trying to create some kind of engine for power?

What about vegetables and food, do you farm your own?

Have you ever considered trying to create some kind of engine for power?

Don I am not in a handbag mood, sorry!

Don I am not in a handbag mood, sorry!

kaesae sexgod

Don I am not in a handbag mood, sorry!

Donsimon small member
You've lost me.

Unfortunately and apparently not! 😉 😀

You've really lost me now. 😐

kaesae - Member
What about vegetables and food, do you farm your own?

We do grow a bit but nowhere near enough to be self sufficient. It's more of a hobby.

With proper insulation any house can be made very energy efficient.

Although it is an easier task in a new build. But I like old houses. Plus my profession is insulation of "hard to treat" properties, solid walled, stone build etc.
So I suppose I would be daft not to use my skills etc to do my own place.

And don simon is spot on too.

Reducing energy consumption is the first thing to do.

Production is always second.

The main reason being, If you don't reduce consumption first, you need to produce more. Making the job a lot harder.

But if you reduce your energy need first, you make producing enough to keep you going a lot easier.

Yes especially when you can save mucho £££££

My flat is awful, the walls are chalk and hollow, trying to hang stuff can be tricky and if you are drunk and fall into the wall 50/50 if you go through it or not 🙂

Saying that I am thankful for a roof over my head and all of the little things like a fridge, food to eat or even a good bed to sleep in.

Reducing energy consumption is the first thing to do.

How will you determine the best way to conserve energy before you know what the source is?

I agree on the FIT's, although it could have been handled better.

It just shouldn't be the first priority, although not sure it was done for the right reasons.

Will more effort be put into reduction as a result ? Will have to wait and see ?

[i] trying to hang stuff can be tricky and if you are drunk and fall into the wall 50/50 if you go through it or not[/i]

LOL @ getting pissed and then a spot of DIY. Got that particular T-shirt 😀 In my case, "putting up" shelves.

Will more effort be put into reduction as a result ? Will have to wait and see ?

Yeah, chalk walls! they are completely hollow, chalk ceilings as well, so easy to put your foot through!

kaesae - Member
How will you determine the best way to conserve energy before you know what the source is?

Not sure I know what you mean.

Require less heat to maintain house temperature - Whatever the source.
Require less electricity - Whatever the source.

Insulation ❓ how do you ensure that you do not end up with a situation where you need to operate a cooling system in the summer?

As above, without knowing what the energy source is, how do you reduce energy consumption effectively beforehand ❓

Are there any threads on this subject?

How much does say for example cold effect energy transference in electrical systems, does it effect it at all?

2016 and 2050 are key dates, aren't they?

They are, but deadlines are often missed 😕

Too much to do to reach the targets at the current rate of change in my opinion.

Insulation how do you ensure that you do not end up with a situation where you need to operate a cooling system in the summer?

So natural sources of cool air like shade?

Insulation how do you ensure that you do not end up with a situation where you need to operate a cooling system in the summer?

Mechanical ventilation helps. (kitchen and bathrooms) and will also recover useable heat when needed in winter.

But good insulation helps to keep a house cool too.

Using 12v lighting reduces heat generated.

As above, without knowing what the energy source is, how do you reduce energy consumption effectively beforehand

It will always be electricity- however it's produced ?

It will always be heat- however it's produced ?

So natural sources of cool air like shade?

Photovoltaic panels for shutters 💡

I'm sure friday nights used to be more fun than this.

Sounds good kevevs PARTY FRIDAY, I want to see if I can save some money, my flat is drafty and a nightmare to heat!

Photo synthetic panels for shutters

[url= http://www.yourhome.gov.au/technical/fs44.html ]More on shading [/url] (read north as south as it's Australian- but the sun still works in the same way).

Kaesae - Duct tape everything. it might not be pretty but you will be hermetically sealed! Then peel it off in Spring 🙂

Find the draughts, and seal them up.

Might sound simplistic, but that's the way to start, as simple as possible.

Yeah, letter box, doors, windows, I have some insulation under my flooring, green reasonably thick.

So any cheap insulation shit for sale anywhere, or do I need to start another thread? doesn't stoner have some kind of furnice?

doesn't stoner have some kind of furnice?

Insulating under floor is good. And something a lot of people don't think of.

But sealing the edges of the flooring to Walls will make a big difference (there are normally large air gaps)

You can do this from underneath with expanding foam if there is space to move around, otherwise taking off the skirting boards and doing it from above, then replacing skirting is a good option.

Not really sure where the other thread went but someone mentioned heavy curtains. If you use heavy curtain, don't close them during the day on windows that receive direct sunlight. You want the solar heat gain in the winter, but keep them closed during hours of darkness to keep the heat in.
I also mentioned on the other thread secondary glazing, which is pretty effective for not too much money.

All of these new technologies are rubbish, we need something a lot more advanced than that, burning wood 😯

What on earth are you on about now?

All of these new technologies are rubbish, we need something a lot more advanced than that, burning wood

It's simple I would like to build some form of engine that will give me free energy, or something a bit more advanced that a glorified furnice. We also need to get rid of the nuclear power stations, japan has shown us just how much of a liability they are.

By burning all the trees?

So lots of smart people on here, there is a form of magnet called neodimium, it is very powerful and has the potential to generate a good amount of energy, the question then becomes, is it possible to harness this energy?

In spite of the consume less argument for saving the planet, which I believe is the reason for this thread, you want to follow the line of producing more to satisfy the ever increasing consumption, something that you disagree with.
Your other thread equally suggests that you're only interested in saving money and not the planet, so it now becomes more difficult to help.
Have a bit of a read on [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house ]Passiv haus[/url] design to see the direction we need to be thinking.
Homemade Heath Robinson contraptions is not the solution and it's a very strange solution from an eco-warrior like yourself.

Kaesae, as don simon has said.

You seem to have missed the point 😕

You started the thread by ranting about people consuming too much and armageddon etc (a totally ineffective way of changing things, hence my earlier comments)

Now, despite having it explained, you are talking about producing power with some sort of magic engine, to satisfy an unnecessarily need for power.

It really isn't hard to make a house energy efficient, to the point that it needs very little in the way of energy to keep it running. Its not free, but then again, neither is the research and development for magic engines.
And the magic engine won't be free either.

Let's imagine Neodymium magnets are capable of powering the world.....

Then you would mass scale mining of Iron, Boron and Neodymium.
China would become the equivalent of the current oil rich nations.

Nothing much changes, the problem stays the same (or similar) mining a finite resource to produce power, for people who use too much power.

Kaesae, back to your point about weather patterns, will it start today because I've just hung the washing out...?

don simon - Member

In spite of the consume less argument for saving the planet, which I believe is the reason for this thread, you want to follow the line of producing more to satisfy the ever increasing consumption, something that you disagree with.
Your other thread equally suggests that you're only interested in saving money and not the planet, so it now becomes more difficult to help.
Have a bit of a read on Passiv haus design to see the direction we need to be thinking.
Homemade Heath Robinson contraptions is not the solution and it's a very strange solution from an eco-warrior like yourself.

Posted 32 minutes ago #Report-Post

nealglover - Member

Kaesae, as don simon has said.

You seem to have missed the point

You started the thread by ranting about people consuming too much and armageddon etc (a totally ineffective way of changing things, hence my earlier comments)

Now, despite having it explained, you are talking about producing power with some sort of magic engine, to satisfy an unnecessarily need for power.

It really isn't hard to make a house energy efficient, to the point that it needs very little in the way of energy to keep it running. Its not free, but then again, neither is the research and development for magic engines.
And the magic engine won't be free either.

Let's imagine Neodymium magnets are capable of powering the world.....

Then you would mass scale mining of Iron, Boron and Neodymium.
China would become the equivalent of the current oil rich nations.

Nothing much changes, the problem stays the same (or similar) mining a finite resource to produce power, for people who use too much power.

Posted 12 minutes ago #Report-Post

So if we all insulate our houses and make then energy efficient that will be enough to rectify the current situation we find ourselves in 😯 D'oh!

I have said all along and on many threads that effective efficient manangement of resources is vital.

That doesn't mean I don't want to save money on heating my flat or that given the opertunity to work with other members of this forum I wouldn't gladly have a go at creating an engine to produce energy.

It is absurd to hear individuals claiming that technological advancement is not essential to the survival of our race!

That doesn't mean I don't want to save money on heating my flat or that given the opertunity to work with other members of this forum I wouldn't gladly have a go at creating an engine to produce energy.

It will take more than luck simone, it would take a conscious revolution 😉

I find that when I smoke crack, I'm not overly bothered about having the heating on.

TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR - Member

I find that when I smoke crack, I'm not overly bothered about having the heating on.

Must be handy having a mother that deals it 😉

It will take more than luck simon[u]e[/u], it would take a conscious revolution

I thought we were actually getting somewhere, but it seems that you would rather rant.

We simply can't meet the targets in 2016 and 2050 without changing domestic energy attitudes and usage.
So why not start there ?

It will also make the output specs for your "magic engine" a lot easier to reach.

Option A - I could power my house for a month on roughly £5/£10 of diesel in a generator (depending on temp)

Option B - Before my changes it would have used that in a couple of days.

Which option would you rather design an alternative power source for ????

Let me know when you finish your magic engine.

kaesae - Member

TheArtistFormerlyKnownAsSTR - Member

I find that when I smoke crack, I'm not overly bothered about having the heating on.

[b]Must be handy having a mother that deals it [/b]

Oh dear.

rightplacerighttime - Member

The difficult truth is that OUR way of living is unsustainable - it's too resource intensive and too polluting to continue - if you are relying on having everything you have now in the future then you are deluded. If you really want to do something for yourself then you should follow the likes of Edukator and ween yourself off stuff you don't need now while you can do it painlessly instead of waiting for it to be taken away. [b]Living with less isn't about being virtuous, it's about being resilient and protecting yourself from inevitable future shock.[/b]

100% agree and couldn't have put it better myself. Complacency is quite rife due to the levels of comfort we've become accustomed to because everything we need and most of what we want is easy to obtain.

I agree, we are too focused on the smaller picture and not on the larger one, our future!

I agree, at some point in my future I will get a bigger tv - sorted

What a load of bilge. Sounds like a few people on here could do with getting out on their bikes a bit more.

Given that everybody on here is (probably) a mountain biker, can I recommend going out for ride rather than engaging in pointless arguments with strangers on the internet?

I went for a ride round Inners this morning, very nice it was too. Why not give it a go?

What a load of bilge

kaesae - Member
I agree, we are too focused on the smaller picture and not on the larger one, our future!

Sounds very much like a political soundbite.

Meaning it sounds good on the surface, but doesn't actually mean a lot as it very vague.

I have given you reasons why focusing on the "small picture" leads to changes that effect the "bigger picture"

But you seem happier ignoring that, and inventing pointless future technologies that aren't needed.

I'll leave you to it.

You seem to happy enough not listening to advice anyway.

have a go at creating an engine to produce energy.

Apart from wind, solar and hydro you can't get any energy for free, and even then 'free' is a very slippery concept.

I think I've seen the future.

And it's not the electric car... 😀

kaesae - Member

It's simple I would like to build some form of engine that will give me free energy,

Simple:
[img] [/img]

I suspect that kaesae is a bot.

They're just trying it out on here to iron out a few wrinkles before letting it go on the Guardian CIF boards.

Neodimium makes good magnets, but it's not a fuel. You cant burn it or decay it to release usable energy.

I would like to build some form of engine that will give me free energy

Junkyard, don't ruin it.

I was looking forward to the 1st draft of the plans being posted.

An engine that runs on naive dreams and puts out limitless energy and the only byproduct is kittens.

In other news -

"The first man I saw was of a meagre aspect, with sooty hands and face, his hair and beard long, ragged, and singed in several places. His clothes, shirt, and skin, were all of the same colour. He has been eight years upon a project for extracting sunbeams out of cucumbers, which were to be put in phials hermetically sealed, and let out to warm the air in raw inclement summers. He told me, he did not doubt, that, in eight years more, he should be able to supply the governor's gardens with sunshine, at a reasonable rate: but he complained that his stock was low"

kaesae, there are plenty of people out there working on alternative power sources that actually work, unlike wind power, which is intermittent at best.
Large scale wave power is one possibility, but comes with environmental issues itself, like the Severn Barrage, that would cause huge problems for the flocks of migrant birds that use the estuary, and the added problem of silting that is likely to occur.
Nuclear power has issues, but not insurmountable, but fusion is the best hope for clean power generation. Neodymium magnets are used in wind turbines, and the quarrying of the rare earths has lead to enormous environmental damage in China.
Li Ion batteries are used in electric vehicles, supposedly environmentally friendly, but the materials required to make such batteries have caused enormouse environmental damage in South America. And you need to generate large amounts of electricity to charge the batteries to power the vehicle that may only take you eighty miles before needing recharging.
I can get five hundred miles out of a tank of diesel before refilling. Electric cars also need the battery packs replaced every few years, like mobile phones do, at a considerable cost to the owner; would you appreciate buying a petrol car for ten thousand pounds, then be told you have to replace its engine after four years and it'll cost you four thou?
Didn't think so.
There's a cost attached to everything. 'Environmentally friendly' is a deceptive term.

franksinatra - Member

What a load of bilge. Sounds like a few people on here could do with getting out on their bikes a bit more.

Given that everybody on here is (probably) a mountain biker, can I recommend going out for [b]ride rather than engaging in pointless arguments with strangers on the internet?[/b]

Posts like that always give rise to a little chuckle. I guess the irony of your words was lost on you, Frankie Boy, else you probably wouldn't have hit the 'send post' button, eh...

You don't get energy from nothing with neodymium, it's the conflict between the two magnetic fields that create the energy, think of it as magnetic constrictor technology.

Anyway funding for a project like that would take a good amount and I'm developing my tooling then some hubs for myself as well as other stuff.

However since some smart people have turned up and some of the original intelligent people are still around as well as the others.

Why has no one created an engine using a steam powered turbine, if you used gas to heat the initial core turbine and then had an outer shell with a secondary turbine system that abosrbed as much heat as possible, you could then also run a dynamo coolant system in the outer secondary system and cause a vacuum, the engine would not be perfect, but it would be a lot more efficient than a lot of engines available just now.

Would this style of engine work?

ok here goes the flaming,
kaesae if your interested in magnetism look at the bedini motor. if your looking for a 'free' energy generator there is interesting stuff with on-demand hydrogen generation for internal combustion engines. ive personally had very limited results ie 5% inc in fuel efficiencies.
there are people claiming that introducing a cold vapour from a fogger along with a browns gas mix (hydrogen/oxygen mix from electrolysis) into a diesel results in generators running as steam engines with little/no hydrocarbon fuel introduced but iv no personal experience of this. im just too busy keeping my head above water at the mo to be experimenting

dont forget though, all these systems are from people experimenting in their garages so verification is impossible.

i would suggest looking at the yahoo group's hydroxy forum and such, maybe start with http://free-energy-info.co.uk/ but be aware there is chaff and wheat and peoples 'discoveries' published on the internet should be taken with a pinch of salt.

that said in a council flat none of these could be applied to you and please dont go mental with explosive gasses in a shared building. so as above get a mastic gun and as much insulation as you can afford and do what you can.