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what a load of crap, nowt wrong with BMW's or any german mark cars. All vey nice quality cars. Its all about choices, some folk spend there money on MTB's, road bikes, going out and getting pissed every weekend. Others spend there money on there car. I work in the motor trade (selling cars) and plenty of folk have there cars as there pride and joy (hobby etc)
Sad to some maybe, but so is biking through woods to other folk. Horses for courses and all that. Other times there are people with disposable incomes who enjoy cars, Cars do nothing for me as i work with em and see em every day. And I really dont care what i drive so long as i can get my bikes in or on the roof of my car (My choices)
My wife on the other hand, works very hard and is a profesional with degrees and a master degree. She earns plenty of her own money and is a real petrol head and loves cars. She chooses to drive a high powerd German sports car. Is she on an ego trip or does she just like driving a nice sports car?
Im just glad there is people like my wife and others out there as they keep me and others in a job. Just like folk who work in bike shops must think of me and other cycle mad folk.
I struggle with long sentences
but to the OP.
A friend of mine worked in BMW Finance late 2000's. End of 2008 he said we're screwed. What we've been doing for years is getting money from the wholesale markets and giving it to our customers to buy our cars. Now the credit crunch has halted the wholesale markets we can't sell cars.
Nuts isn't it. No wonder it's all gone pop.
A mate who used to work at Ford said the only bit of the business which makes a profit (and therefore holding the whole business up) was finance...
All I want is a Mk2 Golf GiT again. I'd happily settle for one.
The finance epitaph is something very profound. It's been staring us in the face for so long...I've a friend who designs diesel engines for Ford who pretty much told me the same thing. High end consumer goods, along with housing have priced themselves beyond the reach of most of the people who aspire to possess them.
How long before mountain bike components meet the same fate?
2012 Giant prices to fall so I guess that's ****!
ha.. just spoke to my sister and her fella is getting a BMW in the next few weeks....
..... through his work via finance! £240/month. and it's part of his job. he has to take the car.
what is VAG? i keep thinking vagina, but i'm guessing it's got very little to do with that....
what is VAG?
Volkswagen Audi Group...
cars really are very cheap though, compared to historical values. I remember distinctly my dad bought the absolute bottom of the range volvo 440 (not a great car..) in 1993 for £11000 cash. Equivilent car now is a volvo s40, which starts at around £16000. That's a <50% increase in 18 years, or a smidge over 2% increase per year (way below average inflation). That isn't an extreme example either. a base model escort would have been about £10000 then, and £15000 now.
My dad's 440 had 118bhp, and did 30mpg. it had keep-fit windows, cloth seats, and distributed locking. The steering had no power assistance, and the tape player just picked up FM. if you were hot you opened a window, if you wanted to keep to one speed you held your foot very still and hoped the road was flat.
Progress? I'd say so.
molgrips - Member
Unless you are too heavy with the throttle, in which case your life is suddenly in danger (assuming you've got the traction control off).
whilst fwd is easier to control a power-on slide than rwd, if you find that with a heavy right foot, your life is 'suddenly in danger' in a rwd car, you should probably go and get some training
Er, in what real world is this? In the actual real world it doesn't make any difference to your driving speed, since you should in NO WAY be anywhere close to the limit of a good FWD car. No doubt it feels nicer but your speed should be limited by the fact it's a public road far more than which wheels are being driven.
why shouldn't you be near the limit? if you can see the road is clear ahead, and you're confident in your car's abilities, why not push the envelope? even at sedate speeds, without a big powerslide or whatever, slip angles on tyres are related to the forces going through them. Even well within the envelope of grip, round a given corner, with power applied to keep a constent speed, a rear wheel drive car will corner at a different attitude to a fwd car. some people notice this and enjoy it. its the same as trying to slow (beneath the limits of traction) a bike through a corner, if you apply only the front brake, the bike trys to push on, and doesn't have much stability, but if you apply the rear, the bike is still keen to enter a corner
Different country and different set of situations for us here in Oz:
We bought an ex-demo Freelander for 20% less than list price with only 600 km on the clock. Looking at the value of three year old ones here, it's likely to depreciate a further 20% in the first three years, costing us $10k in these three years. It is on finance, and this rate is a little higher than savings interest rates, but not by much. However, it does come with full warranty, and roadside (and not-so-roadside) recovery for these three years. Given that I'm pretty new to the vastness of Australia (more the consequences of breaking down), and that depreciation is much lower here ($10K would probably only get you a 10 year old banger with mega-kms), buying a new car makes more sense than the UK. Secondly, it's a 4wd, and we frequently use it as such. Strangely, the next nearest new 4wd that actually works off road (a Pajero, Patrol or Prado) would be an extra $10k over what we paid.
So yes, it's an expensive car by some standards, but for a fully functional 4wd, it's actually quite cheap - a fact that's surprising over here when you actually look at car prices.
My biggest mistake was selling my MkIV Golf GTI instead of bringing it. That was 10 years old, with 100k miles (160k kms), and would cost me $15k to buy in that condition here. I sold it for 1300 GBP before I left, not thinking it worthwhile bringing.....
I guess where I've rambled to with this is that if I have to spend a huge amount on a car (which over here unless you want mega kms or almost mega kms and a Kia you have to), buying a new car can sort-of make sense. And for the record, I do earn a good wage by UK standards (maybe less so by Australian standards), but I certainly work for it. For a lot of people who own nice things (cars, houses, bikes), they have done the same as me - worked very hard for a career and are now starting to enjoy the benefits. Perhaps I could have been more prudent and put the money towards a deposit for a house; but as prices here rise quicker than I can save, I can't see that happening any time soon. Buying the house I rent for the price of a shoebox near central Manchester would cost $600k - there's no way I can afford a mortgage anywhere close to that any time soon.
Yes NOWT wrong with the cars. Its the advertising that creates negative perceptions and makes you think self-righteous cocks.
A lot of bmw owners will buy into the engineering, steering etc. There will be a fair few though who see themselves as having 'made it' to their neighbours if they acquire (note that word, not buy) one..
Pity as not every Audi driver drives inconsideratly but the few who do give them the bad name.
Advertising can give the wrong image and consequently draw the wrong crowd to a brand.
Over here in 'der Vaterland' a client of mine works at a BMW garage. She told me that only about 1% of their customers buy a new BMW outright. The overwhelming majority of new cars are leased.
New i30 classic- in the paper this morning for 9k new. I am TEMPTED!
Probably going to Llandegla tomorrow with my wee one. Can't wait to get up, put my baggiest shorts on, my full face, Leatt and loads of pads. I'll then stick my unnecessarily burly "trail bike" on the roof, head over to N Wales burning off a few poxy Hyundais on route, and then use my Beemer's rwd to spray stones over everyone in the car park. Then it'll be off round the red holding everyone up, before back for a much higher calorific intake than I've just burnt.
Wave and say hi...
I have a company car worth about £20k. If i didn't have it i would buy a car for <£5k.
When you are given a list of cars, you pick the best one.
People drive german cars for the following reasons: -
1. They are very good
2. they are cheap to own and run
3. They like the way the look
They don't own them: -
1. To impress anyone - they are mostly smart enough to know that nobody is impressed by middling saloon cars.
Don't think it's BMW's that create the attitude, I think it's people's perception that ur a w**nker if u display wealth. I drive a jaguar xf, through my company (I'd rather enjoy the earnings than give an additional 20% to the taxman). I used to commute 110 miles a day so all I cared about was comfort.
In the 2 years I have owned it EVERY panel has been damaged, the badges stolen, and the paint keyed twice. I once walked up to my car in a tesco car park to watch a lady crack my door three times with the corner of hers so she could get her obese backside out of her own. On walking up and up and asking if she was right she started having a go that I shouldn't drive such a large car (she was in a galaxy s-max) !!
Sent the obligatory letters to get her to pay for touch up (£75) but obviously never paid, cheers for that.
As to cost, just over £420 a month ex vat on a 0% finance. Not cheap but I won't lift the bonnet the entire time I own it (touch wood), if I want rid I simply hand it back, if I want to down grade / upgrade I can without hassle. the balloon is stupid low (again I hope). It was cheaper than an equivalent mondeo once the spec was matched and finance put into the equation.
And knowing people within the industry, I've been told that there is very little (if any) margins in a new car, in fact some are actually loss leaders. But manufacturers know (obviously land rover know better than anyone) that money is made on servicing, accessories and the big windfall when they get the vehicle back and they get to sell it on again.
And remember, every person who buys a new vehicle is taking the first step in creating a Market that will trickle down, looking at the jaguar website now there are hundreds of XF's less than half sticker price at the 3-4 year (ex lease) point entering the Market. Absolute bargains !!!
what is VAG?
Volkswagen Audi Group...
Or, if you are one of the boring minority who prefer facts to guesswork, Volkswagen Aktiengesellschaft, usually abbreviated to Volkswagen AG.
German equivalent of Volkswagen plc.
Yes they own Audi (and Seat, Skoda, Bentley, Lamborghini etc) but the A doesn't stand for Audi
^^^^^ Wow! you must be a hoot at parties......
😉
what does GmbH mean?
Don't think it's BMW's that create the attitude, I think it's people's perception that ur a w**nker if u display wealth
I think the opposite. I 'assume' its a company car and the chap/lady has a decent job. I definitely don't assume they bought it. If its on a personal lease contract then the driver is ****ing stupid....but then those type of contracts are run/popular with the likes of Toyota etc drivers.
I was in a Toyota dealership once and worked out on a new Yaris you'd lose over 7k of your own money over a 3yr private lease on one and you didn't own it. You'd have to be absolutely barking but then here in the UK we are obsessed with driving a 'new' car. As though we 'deserve' it.
I'll say it again. Its the BMW advertising that grates alot of people. Not the cars. We then assume anyone who drives one must have bought into the advertising bollocks that is frankly abit up its ass. (sadly).
I was in a Toyota dealership once and worked out on a new Yaris you'd lose over 7k of your own money over a 3yr private lease on one and you didn't own it. You'd have to be absolutely barking
Your right, much better to buy it for £14k cash, then sell it yourself three years later for book value ... Oh about £7k?
I can purchase a vehicle outright, right off the depreciation annually, then sell it on taking the resultant hit on cashflow at the outset, or contract hire it and achieve exactly the same result meanwhile putting the cash to other uses (like generating income). Interestingly this doesn't just apply to new vehicles but most manufacturers will also offer the same arrangement on approved used so no "must have new" stigma applies. In my eyes you'd be barking to tie money up in a depreciating asset.
Its not 14k.
if you find that with a heavy right foot, your life is 'suddenly in danger' in a rwd car, you should probably go and get some training
That is what I am saying.
The rest of your post agrees with mine, except for the part about it being ok to drive near the limit of traction on a public road. If you are near the limit then the chance of getting it wrong is much higher, and getting it wrong results in death and destruction. This isn't so nice.
10 year old 330i touring here, the previous owners have lost 30k over the last decade, I've now got a car I've always wanted for less than my Zesty.
I sold cars for a few years and anyone who buys a new car outright would be better putting bundles of fivers up the chimney.
If you can buy things that appreciate and lease things that depreciate, let someone else take the risk. In june 2008 secondhand car prices took a real battering when nothern rock went under, one of my customers handed back an audi s4 to a leasing company which was values at 7k less than his guaranteed residual.
330- I was looking at a 2001 last week...should I?...
yes
"I'll say it again. Its the BMW advertising that grates alot of people. Not the cars. We then assume anyone who drives one must have bought into the advertising bollocks that is frankly abit up its ass. (sadly)."
Change the record. While I would agee that their marketing is generally poor (especially the new 1 Series ad with the brothers), it's not worth losing sleep over. And if you make the assumption you suggest above about me, you're an idiot.
@ Ssimon - the same (albeit saloon)
@ Hora Yes.
52' 330i here, it was the car next down from an M3,has all the toys, cruises luuuurvlry on M/Ways and I still get 30mpg with a bike on the roof.
Lovely car, even 10 years on.
any reason you'd buy a saloon over a touring? you can fit bugger all in the boot of a saloon.
I had thought about a 320d or 320i but looking at the purchase costs, fuel, insurance etc the 330i actually should cost me less over the next couple of years.
dick lovett is the best name for a car dealer ever
😆 I missed that!
No preference- the only thing thats key to me is previous owner(s) have spent loads keeping it tip-top and its traceable-history. OTherwise I'm all ears 😀
I'd have bought a touring originally the BM was the "first" car, used for M/way (30k per year) driving for work, and we had a small hatch for the bikes. I wasnt thinking of practicality when I bought it.
Now, we have a family diesel (Ford Kuga) for kids/excursions and the small hatch ended up as the deposit for that. The BM therefore became the bike car over time. Yes, it makes more sense the other way around but I feel safer knowing my 2yo and wife are not travelling around in a car with rwd 240hp in inclement weather.
For the record, I've had 2 bikes, Bike gear, tents etc etc on a 500 mile round trip 2 cyb in mine, no problem (apart from 26.5mpg on that run which, if you're not doing it everyday isnt the end of the world VS the time it takes you to save that cash after the purchase and payments of a new TDi)
I've someone offered me a touring, passat Tdi type car as a straight swap I'd probably go for it on the grounds of sensibility, but would regret losing the 330 tbh. In fact actuall maybe I wuld go fot it 🙂
Your right, much better to buy it for £14k cash, then sell it yourself three years later for book value ... Oh about £7k?
Or just buy the 3 year old one for £7k, then in another 3 years it's probably worth £3-4k, so you have the same car, but still have some money...?
dick lovett is the best name for a car dealer ever
Well there was a BMW dealer just outside Knaresborough called Eric Hunt too. Although he called it Eric G. Hunt.
Done to death by now, but as others have said - they are an economic company car choice.
I'm currently looking at a 318d Touring as a possible company car. Lease costs for the company are cheaper than many spec Mondeos etc, because the residuals are higher over the lease term...
As a driver, company car tax is lower, so why wouldn't you choose a BMW???
3 series saloon, @ 20% tax rate = £53/month (lowest I could find)
As a driver, company car tax is lower, so why wouldn't you choose a BMW???
Becasue the Mondeo is a LOT bigger than a 3 series BMW??? 🙂
And some people are inverted badge snobs and WON'T drive a BMW / Audi because they are worried people will mark them as nobs.
That only applies to Volvos in my case....... 🙂
"And some people are inverted badge snobs and WON'T drive a BMW / Audi because they are worried people will mark them as nobs."
You dont have to justify to us your reasons for buying an Audi 🙂
Edric 64 - Member
I am about to take delivery of an A6 SLine SE estate 2.0 tdiAnd woopee for you
misrable cheapskate alert!
Kryton57 - Member
I feel safer knowing my 2yo and wife are not travelling around in a car with rwd 240hp in inclement weather.
Is your wife mentally disabled or do you just treat her that way 🙄
You dont have to justify to us your reasons for buying an Audi
Nope. And had a long history of cars people could joke about, such as my Puma and before that a Clio - when I happened to have a girlfriend (now wife) nearly 10 years my junior. And she is called Nicole.
So I have had my share of car-related jokes thrown at me 🙂
It seems timc, you turned up just to insult people.
I'd feel safer myself driving the other car in inclement weather, and having the choice, I take the higher up, higher safety rated, 4wd.
What I was referring to is that should it be say, snowing, it'd be rather selfish of me to take the "safe" car away for a bikeing weekend, and leave her with a car thats difficult to drive in those conditions to carry our son about in.
Perhaps you dont have / dont care for a wife and son, or are perhaps just an ass, otherwise you wouldnt have bothered with that comment.
timc - MemberKryton57 - Member
I feel safer knowing my 2yo and wife are not travelling around in a car with rwd 240hp in inclement weather.Is your wife mentally disabled or do you just treat her that way
Suprised it took two hours for someone to pick up on that! For the record my thoughts are similar to yours timc, but maybe Kryton is a pro-rally driver with a race tuned car... i.e. a vehicle mere mortals (and I include myself here) wouldn't necessarily be comfortable in.
Edited to add - Ah, an explanation...
Edric 64 comment seems justified, obviously it was tonge in cheek to yourself, but as you have bitten! maybe i just find it funny you think your wife can not drive a car as well as you! 👿
ofcourse you have now said what you implied, out of interest, where do you go away for a biking weekend when its snowing? <<-- that bit is being an ass...