[Closed] How do people afford BMWs?

JPcapel the cars aren't the problem its the sales people and detritus that are attracted to the brand to 'tell the world' about themselves.

The cars themselves aren't bad at all.

The other issue is the UK marketing. It really is bad for the brand here in the UK. Strip out the cringeworthy 'power' advertising its actually a lovely proposition.

Hence you can't blame other punters for saying 'BMW's are for cocks' as we see the perception given from the advertising.

Take Audi- they concentrate on quality (i.e. good). Take BMW and previously they have told us that its the ultimate driving machine.

The latest 'joy' makes my skin creep.

I drive a BMW too, but im not a sales person and dont feel like a drive like a cock, but yet because I drive a BMW I am a cock according to a fair few people on this thread!

Haterz gonna hate I guess.......

crispo read the above.

One of my mates used to sell cars for a living. In his time he worked for Jeep, Ford and BMW. One of the reasons he quit working for BMW was that he thought most people who walked in to the showroom had an attitude.

Ironically he now sells construction equipment and he likes to be seen in the blingist Audi he can get.

A guy on bikeradar who I was trying to agree a price for a 456ti frame, said if I arrived in a bmw or similar the deal was off, that was an interesting lesson in the art of negotiation for him, as I pointed out I took offence to his comments and withdrew the offer I had made.

There are some very strange/weird people about with funny attitudes to cars?

I would have borrowed one just for the day to P him off. 😉

I drive a BMW too, but im not a sales person and dont feel like a drive like a cock, but yet because I drive a BMW I am a cock according to a fair few people on this thread!

There's no smoke without fire. 😉

Ten years ago you'd have been safe in assumingthe numpty behind you on the motorway was in a BMW if you couldn't see the grille of his car in your mirrors, nowadays it seems to be Audis. That aside, they are simply well designed and engineered cars especially if you appreciate [i]driving[/i] as opposed to simply getting from A to B. They aren't as far ahead of the opposition as they used to be but are still at the upper end.

Nearly bought one when I was looking last year but TBH I didn't enjoy driving the one I tested (320D Tourer) as much as some other makes. What was surprising was that you could spec up a Mondeo or Insignia to a high level to compare against the BMW & they worked out a similar price (full OTR that is).

The worst attitudes I have seen in showrooms were, by far and away, those in the Mini showroom (which was a huge contributory factor in my wife buying a Mazda 3 four years ago). My business partner also had a pretty rubbish experience with them which made him almost pull out of a purchase at the last minute.

Ohh, and Volvo - asked them to send me a brochure and they told me to look on the website for a PDF download.

Ohh and Honda - told us to come back in the new year (we were looking over the Christmas break) if we wanted to test drive one as they were quiet so were going home early. Err, and you are quiet because...

I've driven a few decent cars as we have a fair variety of pool cars at work, and I've been able to borrow cars occasionally. As a result, I've driven most 3 series sized stuff.

There are two sides to the 3 series. One is the image - "I'm a go getter who needs to sit 6 inches off your back bumper, because I've got a photocopier lease to sell. RAAWR!", and of course Surf Mat, and the actual car.

The other side is the actual car. They're probably about equivalent in terms of reliability, fit and finish, comfort etc. to their competitors. However, they win out on two big points. Firstly, BMWs don't lose much money, and they don't emit a lot of CO2. This makes them fantastic value as company cars. Secondly, the 3 series is streets ahead of the Merc and Audi equivalents to drive. Hugely, massively better. The 320d actually does a decent impression of a big petrol engine, and the car goes round corners.

Some can't seperate the nobby image from the actual motor, which is very, very good.

Funkydunc do you know him as well? If its the same lad hes a top lad/down to earth and warm fella isn't he?

Hora - Lost you there? Do I know who as well?

Figures from 2010:

What Car? 10 most reliable manufacturers:
1. Honda
2. Subaru
3. Mitsubishi
4. Lexus
5. Toyota
6. Mazda
7. Nissan
8. Skoda
9. Kia
10. Mini

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-1686756/Most-reliable-cars-2010.html#ixzz1XS1Rt6Ai

Which? most reliable new cars
1 Kia Picanto - 98.1%
2 Mazda3 - 97.6%
3 Daihatsu Sirion - 97.0%
3 Honda Insight - 97.0%
5 Honda Jazz - 96.2%
6 Toyota iQ - 96.1%
7 Toyota Prius - 95.4%
8 Volkswagen Golf Plus - 93.3%
8 Mercedes-Benz SLK - 93.3%
10 Mazda2 - 93.2%

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-1686756/Most-reliable-cars-2010.html#ixzz1XS1c7XfX

Warranty Direct most reliable (Jan 2010):
1 Suzuki
2 Honda
3 Mazda
4 Toyota
5 Skoda
6 Smart
7 Citroen
8 Hyundai
9 Nissan
10 Ford

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-1686756/Most-reliable-cars-2010.html#ixzz1XS1jfoHN

And now the least reliable (2010):

Which? least reliable new cars
1 Land Rover Discovery 3 - 67.8%
2 BMW 3 Series convertible - 73.9%
3 Hyundai Santa Fe - 75.0%
4 Renault Mégane CC - 75.7%
5 Volkswagen Eos - 75.7%
6 Land Rover Range Rover Sport - 75.8%
7 Jaguar S-type - 76.0%
8 Ford Focus CC - 77.2%
9 Citroën C4 Grand Picasso - 77.4%
10 Volvo S80 - 77.6%
10 Ford S-Max - 77.6%

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-1686756/Most-reliable-cars-2010.html#ixzz1XS25GF8W

Warranty Direct least reliable (Jan 2010)
1 Jeep
2 Porsche
3 Landrover
4 Alfa Romeo
5 Chrysler
6 Jaguar
7 Audi
8 MG
9 Mercedes
10 Saab

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-1686756/Most-reliable-cars-2010.html#ixzz1XS29N7hi

2011's figures so far (best):

1 Toyota Corolla 4.00
2 Suzuki Alto 7.00
3 Honda HR-V 8.00
4 Ford Fiesta 14.00
5 Honda Jazz 16.00
6 Volvo S40 18.00
7 Mazda 2 20.00
8 Mitsubishi Colt 21.00
9 Lexus IS 21.00
10 Toyota Yaris 22.00

Worst:

1 Mercedes-Benz SL 349.00
2 Mercedes-Benz CL 327.00
3 Land Rover Range Rover 295.00
4 Mercedes-Benz S-Class 287.00
5 Nissan Pathfinder 269.00
6 Renault Espace 264.00
7 Jeep Grand Cherokee 256.00
8 Mercedes-Benz V-Class 248.00
9 Renault Vel Satis 247.00
10 Citroen C8 238.00

http://www.reliabilityindex.com/

Read more: http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-1686756/Most-reliable-cars-2010.html#ixzz1XS29N7hi

2011's figures so far (best):

1 Toyota Corolla 4.00
2 Suzuki Alto 7.00
3 Honda HR-V 8.00
4 Ford Fiesta 14.00
5 Honda Jazz 16.00
6 Volvo S40 18.00
7 Mazda 2 20.00
8 Mitsubishi Colt 21.00
9 Lexus IS 21.00
10 Toyota Yaris 22.00

mmmmm Lexus RX400H

mmmmm Lexus RX400H

All that reliability stuff needs to be taken with a massive pinch of salt.

The 2010/2011 numbers include the Renault Vel Satis, which isn't sold here any more, and in any case only dribbled out of the showrooms. The Citroen C8's still on sale, but I've only ever seen about three. SAAB have essentially closed down, so again, you're hardly talking representative samples, and MG disappeared in 2008.

The reason people look at you funny when you are driving one is that conspicuous consumption is not generally admired in this country...

On the contrary, I think it is far too much admired.

Deviant do you buy cars based solely on reliability figures? You sound like a fun guy 😉

One of my mates used to sell cars for a living. In his time he worked for Jeep, Ford and BMW. One of the reasons he quit working for BMW was that he thought most people who walked in to the showroom had an attitude.

Ironically he now sells construction equipment and he likes to be seen in the blingist Audi he can ge

Stuart?

Yep brummy Stu! Small world ay. Unfortunately dont get to see him that much these days, as he's all loved up and my lifes a bit mad.

The reliability surveys throw the odd curve ball with niche cars that didnt sell in big numbers sometimes skewing results but the big names at the top; Honda, Toyota, Suzuki, Kia etc sell enough cars that the results can usually be trusted....its also telling that companies like Kia and Hyundai started off the current war over warranties by offering 5 and 7 year warranties years before the european manufacturers got their arses into gear.

The last european car i owned was in 2007, i'd spent 12 years driving Fords, Citreons, Peugeots, Volkwagens and Fiats and become used to spending money on cars....everybody else did too, part of adult life isnt it?

Er, no actually....bought from the east at the end of 2007 and havent had to put anything other than tyres on my cars since....managed to convince the other half to swap too and her Mitsubishi (7 years old) hasnt gone wrong yet either.

*randomjeremy....yes i do buy cars on reliability, not really that interested in image any more....i see my car as a glorified umbrella, something to keep me dry in crappy weather thats all and the less money i have to spend on it the better as far as i'm concerned....i have the mountain bike and a motorbike for fun*

In your experience...

I have a Mazda 3 from new (now 4.5 years old) and it has had electrical problems (central locking failed, alarm going off because it wasn't recognising the key, windows not operating), brake system faults (a very common problem with the DSC) which cost me £400 to repair even with a 50% contribution from Mazda, rapid tyre wear (12k out of a set of front tyres is considered 'normal' for this car).

Most disappointed in it to be honest.

It's very important to your self-esteem to have a vehicle that has a presence on the road and commands respect from other road users.

I've just bought such a vehicle for cash, and I notice that even BMW and Audi drivers give me road room.

It's a white Ford Transit 🙂

12k (average annual mileage) is fine for a set of tyres....try riding a motorbike and having to change them every 2-3k!

Regards personal stories....you're right everybody has personal experience that refutes the figures.

Funky, thats him. Thinks the world of his missus

12K for a set of tires? I got just under 40K from the last set, and they were still legal but I didn't want to drive around the akes at Crimbo with worn tires.

It's a white Ford Transit

+1 or any other large van.

i was cruising around the alps in a large fiat ducato like this:

[img] [/img]

i pimped it using black gaffa tape..... big speed stripe through the middle of it. wanted to have two stripes but ran out of tape.

12k (average annual mileage) is fine for a set of tyres....try riding a motorbike and having to change them every 2-3k!

I have had 16k and counting out of the tyres on my car and I rag it quite regularly.

12k (average annual mileage) is fine for a set of tyres....try riding a motorbike and having to change them every 2-3k!

Jesus H, what are you doing to them 😆 ? 18k and counting on mine and that's 4wd with close to 300bhp

It is a known fault with the suspension set-up on the car - they eat tyres 🙁 And they are £120 a pop too.

Selling it this month and getting a cheapo second car to run around in when needed - gonna get something that can be cheaply and easily repaired by an independent dealer and I can chuck no-name tyres on when it eventually needs them.

Haha.. they don't! Pretty much all the people I know that have BMW's don't have money for it and just lease them. At least that's how it works in the US .. Enjoy now, pay later (or never).

Jesus H, what are you doing to them

It's called cornering... Plus R&D in bike tyres is aimed to grip. R&D in car tyres to longevity.

jsgrl925ws - Member
Haha.. they don't! Pretty much all the people I know that have BMW's don't have money for it and just lease them. At least that's how it works in the US .. Enjoy now, pay later (or never).

What do you think they pay the lease with? Magic Beans?

Commuting along the M4

Anywhere between J5 and J13 of the M4 is sensible commute distance to BMW UK who are based in Bracknell. Like most manufacturers, they do excellent lease deals for their staff to keep them in virtually-new BMWs all the time. Same reason that Milton Keynes is full of virtually new VAG cars.

Others have said as well that for company car drivers BMW have the magic combination of low CO2 and reasonable list prices that make them much cheaper in terms of tax than most rivals. Good retained value means fleet managers are more likely to offer them too.

For the people on car allowance (as many ex-company-car drivers are) they're still a pretty affordable option. I'm hardly senior but my car allowance would just about stretch to a leased 3-series - I bought a 6-month old Civic instead and pocket the difference. Buying a 2-3 year old 3-series and keeping it a couple of years before buying another is what a few colleagues do quite affordably too.

As for the RR Sports and stuff - a combination of mortgage equity withdrawal (idiots believing the value of their house will only go up so add £40k to their mortgage to buy a car) and there are plenty of people about in their 50s now with their mortgage paid off - so even in a modest job they have plenty of disposable income to spend on things like cars.

Debt - like most of today's problems!!

When I see someone who has a ‘nice car’ but lives in a rubbish house, I automatically think chav!

[b]Vinte[/b] - When I see someone who has a ‘nice car’ but lives in a rubbish house, I automatically think chav!

Careful up there on your pedestal.. 😉

Maybe they just have different priorities?

Ecky-Thump - Member
Oy! Gary_C, now I'm upset. I thought you were keeping an eye out for a little diesel for my Mrs. That 1 series sounded spot on.

Damn ! 😳

No doubt a similar one will crop up. It was a cracking little car too, 177bhp so it wasn't a slouch, 50mpg from Cumbria to Rochdale, & that was with me, shall I say, 'making good progress' on the M6, 61 & 60. Only £90 P.A. VED as well.

Vinte that's called 'Ghetto fabulous'. A lot of black guys in Huddersfield were like that when I was younger.

The best bit of RWD is in corners though

Unless you are too heavy with the throttle, in which case your life is suddenly in danger (assuming you've got the traction control off).

However in real world most people can drive quicker in a FWD than a RWD.

Er, in what real world is this? In the actual real world it doesn't make any difference to your driving speed, since you should in NO WAY be anywhere close to the limit of a good FWD car. No doubt it feels nicer but your speed should be limited by the fact it's a public road far more than which wheels are being driven.

In your experience...

I have a Mazda 3 from new

We all know you had a bad car, and that particular model had problems. However that doesn't change the fact that Mazda are over all an excellent brand for reliability.

12k (average annual mileage) is fine for a set of tyres..

Is it bloody hell.

Well not quite Molgrips - all Mazdas with DSC built around that time had the same problem - 3s, 5s, 6s - and Mazda have always been reticent to accept liability. Some people sucked it up and have paid (according to forums I joined) up to £1.2k to repair. Others like myself fought hard to get contributions.

I think that the OP might be suffering from "observational bias". Audi and BMW have 6-7% each of new car sales market share. There aren't that many out there. However look for them and you'll notice them.

As for how people can afford them?

1. Company cars. As has been pointed before, due to good residuals and low co2 they can often be a tax /lease efficient as other makes, ford/vauxhall etc..

2. Leasing. Again due to residuals they are relatively (subjective term) as cheap as as other makes, ford/vauxhall etc..again.

3. Some people really can't afford them but want a "premium" brand and use a high (too high?) proportion of their income.

4. Some people (high disposable income, net worth) can afford them. Or in other words - Welcome to Surrey! Down here the OP would be asking "How can people afford Lambos, Ferrari, Bentley" etc...Again it's observational bias - there aren't that many around but you notice them.

Can I just ask where you can get an Audi A6 for £270 a month please, cos I'm struggling to get even a base model anywhere near that let alone an Sline... Or are you putting up a big deposit?

It's a business lease through Bolton Audi - typical 3 x 24 terms. But yes - until I found that, I couldn't even find an A4 Avant apart from the very basic low power model I could afford and it was still more than the A6.

I had a Mk2 Golf GiT 16v which clocked up 40k between tyre changes and in the 90k miles I covered in it only ate through one set of discs and pads. It was a bloody hoot to drive too.

Progress?