[Closed] How do people afford BMWs?

Is that the catch on lease cars, limited mileage?

No. You set the limit but obviously pay extra the more you have, it's doesn't vary that much though.

Some are limited to 10k a year, but the biggest catch is you have to pay for ever tiny bit of damagae when you hand the car back.

Not paid a single penny yet.

In the event of a write off the GAP insurance on my car only pays out on the difference between the insurance payout on the car and the amount owed to the finance company - probably only an issue for the first 12 months or so of the lease agreement. Given the amount of hassle I had after having a lease car stolen and never recovered I can't believe anyone would deliberately write off their car to claim on a GAP policy. A year later I am still getting random bills off the lease company.

I drive a nearly 4 year old BMW 320 M Sport, had it from new. Came through a company arranged personal lease with a purchase price of about £25k. I receive a car allowance and a condition of this is a car no older than 6 years and no more than 120k miles on the clock.

I could have had a cheaper new runaround but as my allowance and saving on company car tax covered the cost of the lease on the BMW I decided to go for it as it seemed nice to have it over the Vactra I had before.

Apart from it being a little small for my young family it's been the best car I have ever (and will ever) own (through finance). At Christmas I can either make the final payment and buy it outright or give it back. At the moment I'm torn which way to go but chances are I will go for something that costs me a bit less each month so I can pocket the difference.

As I see it comparable motors from the more conventionally common manufacturers are priced similarly to equivalent "premium" brands and from my experieince the level of finish on my my BMW is overall a little better. This may not be an issue and it's not in massive areas, it is just a bit slicker.

How does insurance work for a leased car?

Oy! Gary_C, now I'm upset. I thought you were keeping an eye out for a little diesel for my Mrs. That 1 series sounded spot on. 😉

Generally, I gotta say that I'm continually shocked at how many new, high cost motors are on the road. Not that many folk have company cars these days, so there must be a fair few folk who lease/buy on a personal basis.
That's their choice.
I'm more focussed on cost of ownership and generally work on an assumption that any car itself (depreciation, oil changes and tyres) should cost me no more than £1k per year (c.20k miles). More than that and I start to get depressed. 😥

I have friends who have bought expensive motors new (not a Beemer but a V70 & a Sharan) but they both have the sense to see them as long term depreciating assets and plan to keep them for at least 10 years. The depreciation is not unreasonable when you work on those sort of timescales. I might even possibly consider a big Beemer oil-burner on that basis.

'cos everybody is a drug dealer innit

Ohh someone mentioned Christmas and BMWs. Are they still an issue in the snow?

I'd like a Golf, am I way out of touch?

Ewan, with may car it's treated as my own (registered in my name) and I insure it as my own car.

In terms of maintenance I pay a monthly fee which equate to about a grand a year and fro that i have no further servicing, repair or (lately) MOT bills. I wouldn't epect a lot to go wrong with a new car but as I've gone through 6 tyres due to nails and screws and have not had to pay anything towards them it's not so bad.

"Ohh someone mentioned Christmas and BMWs. Are they still an issue in the snow?"

Its not a BMW problem! Its people not understanding that rear wheel drive cars are more difficult to drive in snow. I guess that does kind of show that that most people buy BM's as status symbols though, as they quite clearly dont have a clue which wheels drive the car!

Touch of the green eyed monster here which is a shame.

BMW make very good cars I think that's unquestionable as do Audi, Mercedes and many others.

It is true that many people feel that their car is a status symbol, others just enjoy driving, some do big miles and want a large comfortable car and so on, the list of motivations is endless.

The only truism that I have noticed is that we as a nation seem to judge affordability differently than was the case in the past. Now something is affordable if you can afford the payments whereas in the past something was affordable if you had the savings or cash handy.

Then, we invested in the future, now we borrow from it which does seem a little risky but with interest rates at 0.5% why not?

Oy! Gary_C, now I'm upset. I thought you were keeping an eye out for a little diesel for my Mrs. That 1 series sounded spot on.

My new BMW is diesel in fact its my first diesel and I am way impressed, powerful, MPG is amazing and it has less emissions that a fairy's fart.

And I've never had any problems with any of my BMWs in the snow.

My 1 series was terrible in the snow. When it snowed I just left it parked on the drive, as it would embarrassingly get stranded on the slightest incline.

Maybe it's down to driving technique.

Any RWD is more difficult in the snow that FWD. However you just have to accept the car will go sideways, and that you have to be prepared to keep momentum up.

3 years ago I was getting up stuff in a RWD MX5 that most people were struggling up in FWD. However if I had stopped and tried to get going again it would have been impossible.

🙂

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Maybe it's down to driving technique.

Well if it is I never found the right technique, and I have driven plenty of RWD cars in the past. I have never had a problem in any other car, but getting the 1 series started on a uphill incline covered in snow was very difficult. It probably didn't helped that mine was fitted with wider rear tyres than most of them. Maybe a few bags of gravel in the boot would have helped?

Jason - Your on to a looser trying to get any rwd started on a hill in snow.

Maybe it's down to driving technique.

To some extent yes, but you can't get away from the fact that most rear wheel drive cars are absolutely rubbish in the snow compared to front wheel drive - unless you have winter tyres of course. Weight, wide tyres and rear wheel drive are all enemies of snowy conditions.

Back in the depths of Wales where I grew up, most of the local farmers used to keep an old small lightweight FWD car somewhere in the barn for when the snow arrived. Usually these were French cars, Renault 5, Peugeot 205, Citroex AX etc with thin tyres. This meant that when the snow arrived, they could still get out and about, down to the shops etc, etc. You'd be surprised how good any of these cars is in the snow - better than a lot of proper 4x4's

To some extent yes, but you can't get away from the fact that most rear wheel drive cars are absolutely rubbish in the snow compared to front wheel drive

I don't doubt that, but for us in most of the UK it really isn't a great issue in that we don't have regular heavy snow.

How much more would/does it cost to run a second hand BMW? eg 2002-2005 5-series estate? I'm comparing to eg Accord, Mazda6, Mondeo. There seems to be a lot of choice, and you undoubtedly get a lot of car, but what kind of premium would I be paying on insurance, etc?

Funkydunc - how come you don't have the chains on the drive wheels?

St - is that a grand a year on top of the lease fee or is a portion of the £xxx a month account for that.

"Funkydunc - how come you don't have the chains on the drive wheels?"

Its not my car! It was a picture that did the rounds last year when there was a thread about numpty BMW drivers!

And for the record I would never buy a 1 series as they are tiny, poorly built and no cheaper than a 3 series, I cant see why any one would buy one ?!!?

Lad used to work for us had a Audi A4 convertible on a lease deal.

He couldn't drive it as he needed 2 new tyres and the lease company had a T&C that stated only certain brands could go on and he couldn't afford them.

He was such a ******* cock.

Back in the depths of Wales where I grew up, most of the local farmers used to keep an old small lightweight FWD car somewhere in the barn for when the snow arrived. Usually these were French cars, Renault 5, Peugeot 205, Citroex AX etc with thin tyres. This meant that when the snow arrived, they could still get out and about, down to the shops etc, etc. You'd be surprised how good any of these cars is in the snow - better than a lot of proper 4x4's

& most I guess, would have proper winter tires on, makes such a difference, we used to run winter tires all year round on all our farm kit (Peugeot 205).

Forget BMWs, instead take a drive around Kensington, Chelsea, Mayfair or similar and marvel instead at how many multi-millionaires there must be given that you are driving past many hundreds of properties which all cost well over £1m. And many with £80,000 cars parked outside. I don't know why but it fascinates me that there are just so many people that can afford that kind of thing. Good for them and all that, nothing against them.

Nobody (except the exceptionally wealthy perhaps) buys expensive cars with cash, for a number of reasons. Mine include:

1: Using cash to invest in things that make money, not almost definitely lose money (in some rare cases you can make money on a car, I once sold an M3 CSL for a couple of grand more than I paid for it after ragging it for six months, crazy).

2: Some people want a new car every year or two. This is very easy to arrange with finance as you can often port the finance to another vehicle without much hassle, and don't need to put up with idiots coming to test drive the car you're selling; the dealer or finance firm will come and pick the car up.

3: Liquidity. If I suddenly need money, I can hand the car back and stop paying for it. Sure there is likely to be a penalty and a credit score hit, but I won't have an expensive lump of metal sitting on my drive that I can't afford.

If the rate I'm paying on the finance is greater than the rate that my savings are attracting, for sure I'm losing out, but financing makes "owning" a car pretty much stress free, and you can get some really great deals. I currently drive a Merc S65,you could argue that this sort of car wouldn't exist without financing, as nobody in their right mind would pay that sort of money up front on a car. The monthly payments are surprisingly low and the interest rate on the finance is just 1.8%, while my investments are earning more than this.

Oh and just to add some more fuel to the fire of this thread 🙂 I've owned loads of BMWs over the years and they are absolutely fantastic cars to drive. The engineering is massively superior to the junk that VAG (excepting the skunkworks AUDIs) or the frenchies churn out. RWD makes for a better driving experience.

BUT THEY ARE RUBBISH IS THE SNOW AHAHAAHAHA? When it snows stick winter tires on if you really need to get out and about for the three days a year there's actually snow on the ground, for the other 362 days of the year enjoy the brilliant driving experience RWD gives you 🙂

BMW envy (well any nice car really but BMW seem to suffer from it the most) is a curious thing in this country; back home in the states on more than one occasion I have had strangers come over and start a conversation about a car I'm driving, and the attitude is almost always "Wow I love your car, tell me about it", whereas here in the UK I've had no end of small minded plebs driving aggressively and looking at me with hate in their eyes. Hey it could have been someone from this thread, reading some of these green eyed posts!

The engineering is massively superior to the junk that VAG (excepting the skunkworks AUDIs) or the frenchies churn out

Bo lucks.

Btw I don't envy BMW drivers any more than any other car. I don't drive one, but I'll let you into a secret - I can afford one 🙂

The reason people look at you funny when you are driving one is that conspicuous consumption is not generally admired in this country...

Oh and with regards aggressive driving - the majority (but not all) of the aggressive driving I see here is done by the people in BMWs and Audis - not the other way round. Again, simply an observation.

back home in the states on more than one occasion I have had strangers come over and start a conversation about a car I'm driving

I wonder where you're from. In the UK BMWs are so common that you wouldn't talk to someone about one unless it was a particularly rare one and they were into BMWs.

I think the answer for most of those with "executive cars" is that actually they can't afford them, well as they're mostly on lease agreements they don't own them anyway.

I drive a 51 plate 330d touring and when it's not in the garage having the suspension replaced (again) it's ace. It's as sweet to drive on the motorway as it is on a B-road, goes like stink, has more airbags than I can count, does an average of 44mpg and the straight 6 diesel sounds brilliant.

It's certainly no status symbol but it is a lot of fun to drive.

Whats the mileage on it Wozza?

I think the answer for most of those with "executive cars" is that actually they can't afford them, well as they're mostly on lease agreements they don't own them anyway.

It's as sweet to drive on the motorway as it is on a B-road

Except in winter. 😛

Personally can't understand why someone would be happy shelling out anywhere between £250-£350 a month for what at the end of the day are some pretty mediocre new cars. BMW 316 or 318, Audi 2.0ltr Diesel Estate - hardly cars that set the heart racing are they? Dull, dull, dull. Automotive porridge? Struggling to get my head round it to be honest.

Why not spend the money on something nice to drive instead. Sure if you want a BMW for the same money as that new 318i you could have a 4-5 year old M3 Coupe and still have cash to spare to cover the extra fuel and insurance. For less than half the price of a boggo and boring new 2.0 A6 you could get a ten year old RS4 - a car that is no longer depreciating at all.

Regarding leasing - mine is capped at 10k per year but I won't go over that - I just get a car through my business as it is a tax efficient way of getting rid of profit and I get to drive a nice (IMO) car.

And the cars I have always got have been covered by the BRVLA (?) 'fair wear & tear' policy which means small scratches etc are not penalised on hand-over.

Whats the mileage on it Wozza?

About 155,000 with FSH. Paid about £3000 for it a year or so ago.

Except in winter. 😛

He's right you know. Winter driving is a bit "interesting". 😆

BMW envy

European BMW drivers are fine and Merc's, BMW and Audi's are all well engineered cars. In the UK it's linked with a certain social mindset.

Which is not to say that I've never come across well mannered drivers of Germanic cars. They are out there but like UFO's there's not many of them.

randomjeremy - Member
RWD makes for a better driving experience.

Why's that?

Mercs? Mercs are for old people. My mum had a very nice E-Class - hardly ever went over 70. Never ever floored it. Whoever got it after she traded it in got a bargain.

The one and only BMW I ever drove had been ragged - and more interestingly had an almost unreadable black speedometer. I'm guessing the previous owner had chosen the trim so that he could negate 'speed management' as much as possible..

BMW envy (well any nice car really but BMW seem to suffer from it the most) is a curious thing in this country

Does it really exist? Seems to me people from all walks of life drive them these days. Same with Mercs and Audis. True, they used to be seen as exotic and even my dad aspired to own a 3 series but I don't think that is the case these days.

European BMW drivers are fine

Not in Spain or Portugal. No-one can drive well in those 2 countries, regardless of vehicle marque.

Try driving in California on the bendy roads. The yanks are so perplexed by the concept of a corner they slow down to 15 mph.

As a bmw driver, its quite unpleasant how anti people are towards the badge, with no real meaning behind their dis-like, as far as I can tell and reading this thread.
Mine is a company car.
It has low Co2 so was a cost effective choice.
I picked the equivalent of a MKI Escort - the 120d for some rear wheel driving fun - I treat it as you would a hire car and it is great to drive - has real soul, versus say a golf gti or similar. Equally I pick my moments and always try to be a courtious road user.
Our family car for ages has been a clapped out Mondeo which is befitting of my earnings, when trying to juggle mortgage, 2 children, wife, biking, etc.
I had a friend in my car tell me cocks drive bmw, which is far from pleasant, yet beyond the car, we rub along well - strange behaviour?

A guy on bikeradar who I was trying to agree a price for a 456ti frame, said if I arrived in a bmw or similar the deal was off, that was an interesting lesson in the art of negotiation for him, as I pointed out I took offence to his comments and withdrew the offer I had made.

Does make me think I might pick a different car when it comes up for renewal to avoid this stigma that comes with driving a bmw. Which is sad, as I like driving them.

randomjeremy - Member
RWD makes for a better driving experience.
Why's that?

At a very basic level because one set of wheels is providing the driving force, and one is providing the steering, rather than one wet of wheels doing everything.

Big Dave - Member
BMW envy (well any nice car really but BMW seem to suffer from it the most) is a curious thing in this country
Does it really exist?

It's alive and well in this thread 😉

"RWD makes for a better driving experience.

Why's that?"

Becuase the car gets pushed forwards rather than scrabbling to pull the car forwards. BMW also used it in their own adverts, the front wheels just steer, rather than having to put power through as well.

The best bit of RWD is in corners though, where rwd helps to give more neutral handling. FWD cars tend to push out wide and understeer out of corners. RWD tuck in and accelerate you out of the corner, helping steer the car round the corner. It just feels nicer and if done with skill can make for a much more rewarding drive.

I assume that most modern cars are FWD for 2 reasons 1. If you go beyond your skill limit in a FWD all that tends to happen is that the car understeers and scrubs off speed. If you go beyond your skill limit in a rwd you can end up in a spin. 2 It costs more to build a chassis that takes power to the rear wheels.

However in real world most people can drive quicker in a FWD than a RWD.

I think the *hate* some people have goes back to the OP question - they assume they cost loads and that the drivers are willy waving. In all honesty I couldn't afford a BMW or Audi - I had looked into an A4 Avant base model and it was out of my price range this time around (£340 per month) and had accepted I would be getting a more modest car - I had looked at Modeos, Insignias (which I really like the look of BTW), Octavias, Mazda 6s etc then (due to really boring reasons) I didn't get around to ordering the Mazda I had decided on and the offer I found had gone, taking the price of it back up to £310 a month. Then the great offer on the Audi came up - it just happened that an Audi main dealer specialising in business leases got a load from Audi ex-stock and were the fully loaded ones. I had no choice on colour but it was cheap.

If someone thinks I am willy waving then go ahead, think that, but they are wrong.