Oh and rockets from Sinai last night to add to Gaza, Syria, Lebanon, being hit from 4 territories in last few days
What's the Israeli casulty count since they have started to be attacked from all sides?
Oh and rockets from Sinai last night to add to Gaza, Syria, Lebanon, being hit from 4 territories in last few days
really? according to some reports this is what happened last night...
Israel attacked 204 targets in the Gaza Strip overnight, said the army, in the worst flare-up in Israeli-Palestinian violence in almost two years.
Palestinian militants fired more than 20 rockets into Israel, causing no casualties.
again a disproportionate reaction by the Israelis...and more unsubstantiated whataboutery from its apologists on STW...
What's the Israeli casulty count since they have started to be attacked from all sides?
4 injured I believe.
4 injured I believe.
Jesus, with those sorts of casualty figures I am surprised they haven't nuked 'em yet. I mean they are only arab subhumans, what to you think tom? seem like a good idea?
kimbers - I've seen that article but didn't want to bring it up myself but I'm glad you have...as it highlights what is inherently wrong with Israeli society.
The same thing happened back in 2012 when Israel was slaughtering Palestinians, some Israelis brought picnics to viewpoints so that they could watch Israeli warplanes and missiles attack Gaza. I remember one young Israeli telling a TV news crew that he had come because he had never seen a war before.
I know that white phosphorus munitions exploding before raining down on people and burning them alive is pretty to watch, but it really speaks volumes when people who expect the world to respect them see war as a spectator opportunity.
Oh and rockets from Sinai last night to add to Gaza, Syria, Lebanon, being hit from 4 territories in last few days
Is it time to start bombing civilians there whilst blaming someone else yet?
Is it time to start bombing civilians there whilst blaming someone else yet?
dont forget it'll also be an opportunity to grab some more land!!
Here are the views of a young man from Gaza, this is the kind of language and criticism I can get behind. It criticises both sides and takes a moderate stance, without Ernies brand of ideology that uses Palestinian deaths to further itself, one that will lead to further deaths. The last paragraph is particularly hilarious.
All civilians long for peace and stability, and loathe the launch of useless rockets by both the Israeli army and the Palestinian factions in Gaza. I could not believe myself when all sorts of weapons stopped after the Israeli cabinet held their meeting. It was the first night that we could take our breaths and have few hours without the roaring of the war planes and rockets.We can't wait for the Palestinian factions to accept the truce and put an end for the war. I'm against the occupation and the Palestinian factions at the same time. I believe that Hamas rockets are futile and frivolous. They are deaf, blind and always fall on empty sites.
These rockets have created only catastrophes, calamities and embargoes. They led to the shutdown of Gaza crossings, which means mass hunger and shortages in most of the basics needed to keep a human being alive. The Israeli rockets are pointless – they mostly kill innocent people and breed more resistance.
I have finished my studies a few years ago, but still can't find a job, like many of my colleagues. I want a government that can offer me a job, so that I can to get married and have my own family, and not a government that brings me wars year after year. I would have left Gaza ages ago but I'm not allowed to move to the West Bank; you need endless approvals to be able to work there. I'm tired of wars and explosions and just want to live in peace somewhere, but even that dream sounds impossible.
I substantially believe that there was no need for this war, but the two parties, Israel and Hamas, kept firing reciprocate rockets till they sparked the war. What's the use of this war for both sides? Can someone tell me? We have more than 30 people crammed in a single house, and have hardly any power for six hours despite the unbearable heat while we fast during Ramadan. Water comes and goes. It's too risky to go out looking for food during the constant bombardment, and in fact there was no money at home. None of the Palestinians factions knocked at our door to offer any help to us.
These desperate fighters igniting wars, they need to understand that Gaza is not a suitable battlefield for such horror. It's a small place with a dense population and scarce capabilities. [b]I can't understand why Hamas had refused the Israeli government's offer of $50bn to disarm the organisation. They could have turned Gaza into a paradise by rebuilding all the damaged infrastructure and creating jobs for the large number of unemployed young men. The problem is I can't criticise any of the fighting factions in public – I would go to jail for telling the truth.[/b]
I'll stand by my opinion that Ernie doesn't actually give two shits about the deaths in Gaza and is simply using them, like Hamas, to further his own argument for a one state solution. Breaking news, ordinary Palestinians don't give a shit.
The rejection of the ceasefire is being used as justification to 'expand and intensify' Israel's operations. But if one side doesn't accept terms, does a ceasefire exist?
Tom_W1987 - Member
I'll stand by my opinion that Ernie doesn't actually give two shits about the deaths in Gaza and is simply using them, like Hamas, to further his own argument for a one state solution. Breaking news, ordinary Palestinians don't give a shit.
About what? A one state solution? I'm sure in their position I wouldn't be thinking in the long term. However, some would seem to give a shit about their immediate condition* which could be alleviated quite easily by Israel.
Among those leaving UN schools was Ahmed Zarteet, aged 23, who had come with 13 members of his family to a school in Jabaliya."I want to go back," he said, as his wife passed by carrying their small baby. "I want it to be over. But I want it to finish with the resistance's demands fulfilled: an end to the siege, a release of the prisoners and an opening of the crossings."
*
The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) said the bombing had devastated Gaza's water supply."Hundreds of thousands of people in Gaza are now without water. Within days, the entire population of the Strip may be desperately short of water," said Jacques de Maio, who heads ICRC operations in Israel and the Palestinian territories.
"Water and electrical services are also affected as a result of the current hostilities. If they do not stop, the question is not if but when an already beleaguered population will face an acute water crisis," he said in a statement.
"Gaza's water system has been deteriorating for years. The latest attacks are the last straw. Safe drinking water is becoming increasingly scarce in the Strip, just as temperatures are soaring," said ICRC water and sanitation expert Guillaume Pierrehumbert.
Also how much good would $50bn do when building supplies entering Gaza are heavily restricted by Israel? And what are the details of this proposed $50bn?
I'd just like to ask those defending Israel:
Why, in your opinion, is Israel hated by so many people around the world?
Meanwhie:
http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/1.604813
On July 8, the day that Israel launched Operation Protective Edge against Hamas in Gaza, a man described as having a Middle Eastern appearance assaulted a Jewish 17-year-old girl on a Paris street near the Gare du Nord train station by spraying pepper-spray on her face, BNVCA also reported.The girl, identified by her initials, J.L., wrote in her complaint to police that the man, who was in his 20s, shouted: “Dirty Jewess, inshallah you will die.”
****ing disgusting. Utter scum. If I witnessed that cowardly attack, I'd do whatever I could to batter thhe ****. Xenophobia simply must never be tolerated.
I believe the 50 billion would have come with a lifting of the blockade, not only did Hamas reject this but by silencing dissent, Palestinians are being oppressed not only by Israel but by the very people who are supposedly fighting for their cause.
Why, in your opinion, is Israel hated by so many people around the world?
Israeli policy not being media friendly? Jews having plenty of enemies around the world anyway? Peoples lack of awareness as to what is actually going on and only basing their opinions on headlines?
Do you have a source for this belief? A quick google brings up nothing.
Interesting that Canada pops up again when you delve into far-right wing zionism:
[img] 
[/img]
And the Jewish Defence League seem just as lovely a bunch as our own English Defence League, although somewhat more extreme and active:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Defense_League
[img] 
[/img]
Despite being named by the FBI as a 'terrorist organisation', and baned in many countries including Israel, they are not outlawed in Canada and France.
Can't find anything mentioned about the blockade, but I would be very, very surprised if the Israelis did not lift it as:
1) Increasing levels of militarisation of the strip is why the blockade was setup in the first place
2) Theres no point in offering someone 50 billion if they can't spend it.
I can only find reference to the potential of a debate on the subject of offering $50bn aid/rebuilding.
On the face of it, it does seem like a good way to get a dialogue started though.
Israeli policy not being media friendly? Jews having plenty of enemies around the world anyway? Peoples lack of awareness as to what is actually going on and only basing their opinions on headlines?
Somabsolutel nothing to do with the fact, the inalienable fact, that Isreali armed forces are murdering innocent people, and that many Knesset members are far-right extremist zionists then? It's all down to ba PA and Israel being 'misunderstood'? Are you joking?
Peoples lack of awareness as to what is actually going on
Innocent people (on both sides) are being killed. We see the factual evidence on our tvs, in our newpapers, online. How are we 'lacking awareness' of that??
Maybe those Palestinians are just pretending to die? Maybe they get up later and wipe the ketchup off their faces? How else to explain the refusal of some posters to condemn the Israeli violence?
Innocent people (on both sides) are being killed. We see the factual evidence on our tvs, in our newpapers, online. How are we 'lacking awareness' of that??
If you want me to sum it up generally, a lack of awareness surrounding the goals and intentions of both sides and how that relates to reducing deaths in general.
Somabsolutel nothing to do with the fact, the inalienable fact, that Isreali armed forces are murdering innocent people, and that many Knesset members are far-right extremist zionists then? It's all down to ba PA and Israel being 'misunderstood'? Are you joking?
I won't defend Israeli's retaliation outright, I think it's a crying shame that so many are dying. I can just understand, psychologically speaking, why they are doing it and I disagree entirely with Ernie in regards to how you bring an end to the Israeli campaign. Backing a rabid dog into a corner isn't going to calm it down and Israel, like it or not, now exists and I think people need to come to terms with that.
Tom_W1987 - MemberI'll stand by my opinion that Ernie doesn't actually give two shits about the deaths in Gaza
That's quite a serious allegation and it betrays a sense of real desperation on your part.
Obviously you now want to tell us that your heart bleeds for the Palestinian people but throughout this thread you've provided very little evidence that you give "two shits".
In fact this is from one of your earlier posts on this thread :
Tom_W1987 - MemberI don't think I'd have an qualms being a Viper pilot and putting 500lb bombs through the roofs of houses in Gaza.
But now it's you that cares about the Palestinian people, despite freely admitting that if you were an Israeli you would have no qualms about dropping 500lb bombs through the roofs of Palestinian houses in Gaza.
And anyone who speaks up for the Palestinian people, their right to elect their own representatives, and condemns Israel's brutal and murderous policies, apparently doesn't give two shits about Palestinians.
ffs
The last paragraph is particularly hilarious.
A young person wishing for a better life?. Aye, hilarious.
Still can't find any reference to the $50bn being offered...
[url= http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/07/16/dispatch-israeli-strike-kills-four-children-at-a-gaza-beach/?tid=sm_fb ]four more evil terrorists killed by israel?[/url]
kimbers - Member
four more evil terrorists killed by israel?
Hearts and minds
An interesting perspective from an Israeli Jew :
[url= http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.604653 ]Israel's real purpose in Gaza operation? To kill Arabs[/url]
[i]Since the first Lebanon war, more than 30 years ago, the killing of Arabs has become Israel’s primary strategic instrument. The IDF doesn’t wage war against armies, and its main target is civilian populations. Arabs are born only to kill and to be killed, as everyone knows. They have no other goal in life, and Israel kills them. [/i]
I guess that the chilling comments of Maj.Gen. Oren Shachor [i]"If we kill their families, that will frighten them"[/i] sums it all up. And it is of course the same philosophy that was behind the Nazi collective punishments in Occupied Europe when the Nazis were faced with resistance.
Then they're probably overjoyed that the pals are playing right into their hands by continuing to fire rockets during the ceasefire...
It's interesting Z-11 that as a pro-zionist supporter on this thread you make absolutely no attempt at all to refute the claims that Israeli policy for over 30 years has been to target civilian populations. The classic tactics of terrorists, as Maj.Gen. Oren Shachor helpfully points out.
Your only response is that they are "playing right into their hands".
It's all the more interesting as you have a long record of attempting to defend the indefensible. I guess even for you the behaviour of the Zionist state is sometimes too much of a challenge.
Care to point to any post where I've expressed myself as a "pro-zionist supporter" Ernie? I suggest you go and actually read my posts,
for example:
You see, to me this is the problem - its a cycle of violence - the simplification of painting one side as evil, and responsible for everything that is happening helps nobody.Incomparably bigger scale? over 1000 rockets launched at Israel last week.
Both sides need to stop, Tit for Tat needs to stop, and people need to stop making excuses for Hamas continuing their violence too!
As for your comment that "Israeli policy for over 30 years has been to target civilian populations" - all I'd say is that if that was their policy, then they're not doing a very good job of it at all - remember that thing about anecdote not being data? Well, the [b]data[/b] seems to show that the civilian:combatant casualty ratio is overall similar to or better than other modern military campaigns.
The "both sides are behaving badly" argument is a classic pro-Zionist tactic.
It is used extensively by US and UK governments, and has been used recently with regards to the current situation.
And it is of course complete bollocks.
As my link to the Haaretz article points out.
And it is of course complete bollocks.
Oh, so the Pal's aren't targeting civilians with their rockets then?
classic pro-Zionist tactic.
Ah, The old trick, anyone who dares to disagree with you is a zionist! - About as morally corrupt as calling anyone who criticises them an anti-semite!
I don't know what everyones moaning about. The IDF have taken a break from shelling children, so the good folk of Gaza can go for stroll, take in the air, maybe nip to a cafe for a latte, call at the bakers and grocers as they fill up with fresh local produce. Then they can cook themselves a nice meal as a distraction for when the Russian Roulette of the air strikes starts again in a couple of hours
classic pro-Zionist tactic.Ah, The old trick, anyone who dares to disagree with you is a zionist!
So the US and UK governments which extensively use the "both sides are behaving badly" tactic aren't pro-Zionist ? 😆
And btw the Palestinians aren't targeting anything other than "Israel", they don't have the capability to go beyond that. If they were provided with precision weapons, as Israel is, there is little doubt that they would target military sites which are attacking them.
Israel has the precision weapons and yet still target civilians. As my link to the Israeli newspaper says : [i]"A war with no goal is among the most despicable of wars; the deliberate targeting of civilians is among the most atrocious of means. "[/i]
It's not Russian roulette binners, They should know that if they've had any friends round who's second cousin knows somebody in Hamas then they're a house, family and children are fair targets.
They're raising a new generation of snakes and their blood should be spilled.
My brother is in the army, it worries me that in the IDFs eyes that makes me, my family and my home a legitimate military target?!
Given that Gaza is a relatively compact and dense target given that Israel claims to want to avoid civilian innocent causalities but says it cannot because of the intermingling of fighters and civilians , would not a simple solution be to allow the civilians to leave Gaza by raising the blockade and move away from the combat zone?
A much more media friendly and humane tactic than the meaningless propaganda shots of jets occasionally aborting an air strike to create a photo op. Such an idea would also minimise the chances of another children playing football look like fighters prepping weapons faux pas.
Ninfan are the British army really killing 1 child for every 3 adults in Afghanistan ?
Then they can cook themselves a nice meal as a distraction for when the Russian Roulette of the air strikes starts again in a couple of hours
they cant eat or drink....its Ramadan.....but then again with the Israelis constantly tormenting them by restricting the water and food supply to the area...i suppose this doesn't make any difference to them as every day must feel like Ramadan...
Given that Gaza is a relatively compact and dense target given that Israel claims to want to avoid civilian innocent causalities but says it cannot because of the intermingling of fighters and civilians , would not a simple solution be to allow the civilians to leave Gaza by raising the blockade and move away from the combat zone?
Depends whether you're serious about not killing civilians, or if you're just saying that, whereas in reality you couldn't actually give a toss
Depends whether you're serious about not killing civilians, or if you're just saying that, whereas in reality you couldn't actually give a toss
Presumably it's relatively easy to not murder children playing on the beach...
Anyone who runs...
Anyone who stands...
Due to your habit of editing your posts without providing any clue that you have, eg, adding "EDIT", I've only just seen this :
ninfan - MemberAs for your comment that "Israeli policy for over 30 years has been to target civilian populations"
It's not my comment, it's the comment of a Jewish journalist in an article which he wrote for an Israeli newspaper.
But of course you knew that Z-11, you just like to personalise everything. I'm surprised you haven't used the "your mate Ken" tactic recently, are you keeping that trump card for later ?
So anyway, this is what a Jewish journalist in an article which he wrote for an Israeli newspaper has to say :
[b][i]Since the first Lebanon war, more than 30 years ago, the killing of Arabs has become Israel’s primary strategic instrument. The IDF doesn’t wage war against armies, and its main target is civilian populations. Arabs are born only to kill and to be killed, as everyone knows. They have no other goal in life, and Israel kills them. [/i][/b]
Thank you for giving me the opportunity to repeat it, and here's the full article :
[url= http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.604653 ] Israel's real purpose in Gaza operation? To kill Arabs
Since the first Lebanon war over 30 years ago, Israel's main strategy has been killing Arabs. The current atrocious war in Gaza is no different.[/url]
Wow, 'a Jewish journalist says'
Proof indeed, that clearly overturns the data that says otherwise
🙄
rolly eyes will not detract from the fact it is not his comment and you were WRONG. Your attempt to move the goalposts is rather pathetic [ literally]
Yes Junky
Just imagine, a free press, where journalists are allowed to voice an opinion that differs from the government line, a shocking concept
Now, care to tell me why the palestinians are still firing rockets at Jewish civilians?
BBC are reporting a ceasefire's been struck, incidentally. Between Israel and Palestine that is, not between Ernie and Ninfan, that'd be crazy
But, but, hang on, why on earth would Israel agree to a ceasefire if their primary objective is killing Arab civilians, very confusing 😕
