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[url= http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/83679068/ ]Interesting and scary short demo of the view from a drivers seat[/url]
However as he's indicating left would you still sit there on the inside of him?
Me,no. But many people would.
And therein lies one of the issues contributing to so many deaths involving cyclists.
As well as blind spot mirrors on HGV's etc there needs to be education of cyclists about how to ride safely on the road. I never ride to the left of an HGV even in moving traffic and do not coast up the inside at lights.
Much safer a few meters behind it at all times.
There should be money available to run something like the old cycling proficiency courses but for adults riding in busy traffic and not just scootling round the school playground.
I can't understand how a vehicle with such a fundamental design flaw can be deemed fit for purpose.
For the past few years rangerover have had 360 cameras available on their cars.
I don't know why a system such as this isn't fitted to trucks as standard.
Even with blind spot mirrors fitted though would / should you cycle on the inside of an HGV?
Well I wouldn't but the road design tells you to. Think about where pretty much all bike lines are painted on the road at junctions.
Someone needs to show this video to the road designers.
All cars have a blind spot in that area too. Not so big that you can fit a whole peleton in it, but certainly big enough for one or two cyclists. It's simple to me, when I'm a cyclist on the road I don't go up the inside when the vehicle is approaching a junction. You have to assume they're turning left even if not indicating. It's not the complete answer, but part of it.
Im not saying there isn't blind spots but if you look at hkw the cab is tilted in the video you'll then realise why the camera can't see ANYTHING to the left of him. Another truck could potentially be in the same space as those cyclists which obviously wiuld be a massive basic design flaw of all lorries.
ajc - Member
I can't understand how a vehicle with such a fundamental design flaw can be deemed fit for purpose.
POSTED 55 MINUTES AGO # REPORT-POST
And what do you suggest? 🙄
The "flaw" is with riding up the inside of anything when near any junction. Once had some stupid woman on a motorbike of all things do it to me in my car. I was indicating and had started to turn in when she just appeared from nowhere. Fortunately having driven a van for many years I use wing mirrors a lot more than most folk and spotted her...
[i] I never ride to the left of an HGV even in moving traffic and do not coast up the inside at lights.[/i]
but you have been in the blind spot of any hgv that's ever overtaken you in moving traffic.
It only needs for them to slow down a little as they go past and suddenly you're riding alongside it at the same pace the hgv is going, in a blind spot. Unless the driver was watching you the whole time they'll assume that they're past you.
A low level camera to each side isnt beyond the realms of possibility. Of course it is best not to ride up the inside of an hgv but it clearly happens regularly with fatal results
@wwaswas - if there is a junction coming up or if I feel uneasy about the situation for any reason whatsoever I slow down so the HGV is in front of me.
The majority of dangerous situations are at left turn junctions and this is where to be extra vigilant but roads are inherently dangerous and I think too many road users - both motorists and cyclists - do not concentrate and assess situations as they perhaps should.
That video is a bit misleading. The mirrors are very poorly adjusted, particularly the lower one, half of which is wasted on a view of the cab. If the mirrors were pushed out so that you can only just see the cab at the edge of the mirror, the blind spot would be reduced significantly.
The other thing that the mirror fails to do is show how much the mirror above the door would help.
The problem is obviously much worse - and harder to solve - with an articulated lorry as shown in the video, but the recent deaths in London have all involved non-articulated vehicles (I think).
I never get close to trucks or buses these days, it's just not worth it. I'll overtake on the outside if they are stationary, they aren't going anywhere in the near future, and I can pass in a few seconds, otherwise i stay well away.
Unfortunately new cyclists don't realise the dangers they get themselves in, but saying that, there has to be more education for truck and bus drivers, them overtaking cyclists and then turning is just as big a problem, if not bigger than cyclists undertaking them.
That video is just an attempt to blame the victims, the mirrors are incorrectly set up to exaggerate the blind spot and the truck is aligned into the worst position for vision.
While we all know [b]SOME[/b] cyclists really put themselves at risk, the biggest risk is far more often drivers of big metal things who don't suffer the consequences of their selfish actions. That video is nothing but marketing on behalf of the trucking industry.
Whilst cyclists and other road users should take some responsibility and exercise caution, this:
I was indicating and had started to turn in when she just appeared from nowhere.
... doesn't really happen unless she was going recklessly fast in relation to the regular flow of traffic. What was she riding, a Honda Teleporter?
Trucks and cars have blind spots but this isn't a "design flaw", the flaw is in drivers thinking that a little orange flashing light gives them carte blanche to fling their vehicle in a tangential direction when they haven't looked in their mirrors for a fortnight.
The video may exaggerate the lack of visibility but some cyclists think their £4 tesco flashy led lights (with dead battery's) mean they can be seen from space.
This isn't the case and they will get killed if they ride like morons.
Some cyclists are Mormons - some drivers are morons BUT only the cyclist will get killed if they collide.
All this "cyclists riding up the inside of trucks" AGAIN?!?!
[i]I never get close to trucks or buses these days[/i]
What utter bollocks! So a truck/bus is approaching from behind, unless you've got mirrors on the bike you don't even know it's there until it's too close.
[i]While we all know SOME cyclists really put themselves at risk, the biggest risk is far more often drivers of big metal things who don't suffer the consequences of their selfish actions[/i]
Exactly.
My experience is that the trucks don't give [i]me[/i] enough room.
So a truck/bus is approaching from behind, unless you've got mirrors on the bike you don't even know it's there until it's too close.
Ah but, you see, I've got this fantastic device, it's called a "neck" and allows me to look somewhere other than my front wheel occasionally. Are you Batman?
Are you seriously telling us you could have a bus behind you and you'd not notice?
Not if he's listening to his iPod!
Okay, how about trucks having to carry a lookout in the passenger seat whose job is to stick their neck out the window before left turns? They could also be the extra pair of eyes watching for cyclist close under the front window and looking at any extra screens such as rear cameras and satnav.
Its very easy not to ride down the side of a large vehicle stopped at a junction (well, you'd think so).
Difficult to avoid is the overtaking bus or lorry that turns left as its passing?
Answer, always ride primary in heavy traffic or move to primary well before passing through any junction.
To me the answer to busy junctions is so simple... we already do it for pedestrians v cars. You have a phase for pedestrians, then a phase for bikes, then a phase for all traffic.
What is absolutely crazy is the ASL bike boxes are in a lot of HGV blind spots. I notice they dont show that on the video.
Trouble is with moving to primary that it puts you straight under the front of the loon who is texting instead of looking out of the big front window, never mind the blind spots.
What utter bollocks! So a truck/bus is approaching from behind, unless you've got mirrors on the bike you don't even know it's there until it's too close.
well, yeah, fairly obviously. i can only do what I can do. if a truck approaches me from behind then it's going to pass me, gold star mate.
taking primary at junctions helps I think, when I come up to traffic lights with a left turn, or a well used left turn without lights I'll always do a lifesaver, then move out to take primary, that pretty much removes the chances of being left hooked.
Trouble is with moving to primary that it puts you straight under the front of the loon who is texting instead of looking out of the big front window, never mind the blind spots.
In that instance either... moved to primary too late or no amount of road positioning will help you. Same as the speeding driver who jumps a red light, nothing will change the outcome. Cycling will never be risk free.
[i]I can't understand how a vehicle with such a fundamental design flaw can be deemed fit for purpose.
[/i]
The European design of flat front trucks is a by product of the traffic laws to reduce the size of a truck and trailer combination. The rules say that the combined length must be less than X metres. To get the maximum cargo length you have to minimise the cab length. This leads to the tall flat fronted design which is awful for pretty much all dynamic purpose including, but not exclusively, visibility.
Yeah, apologies Warton - this is (at least) the 3rd time this video has been posted and I get a bit narked by the constant "it's the cyclist's fault" on here. I need to avoid these threads!
when I come up to traffic lights with a left turn, or a well used left turn without lights I'll always do a lifesaver, then move out to take primary
You know, I wonder how many lives we'd save if we forced other road users (cycle, car, truck) to do a CBT. It fundamentally changed my observation habits, I 'lifesaver' when driving now and it staggers me that it doesn't get taught to everyone.
[i]it's called a "neck" and allows me to look somewhere other than my front wheel [/i]
So you see EVERY single vehicle that comes up behind you? Wow. Clever.
Yes, Avoiding now. Too much crap spouted.
I can't understand how a vehicle with such a fundamental design flaw can be deemed fit for purpose.
Exactly. Crumple zones, airbags and seatbelts should be a minimum.
You know, I wonder how many lives we'd save if we forced other road users (cycle, car, truck) to do a CBT
I've never done a CBT, but a few friends have, I picked it up off them, seems to be a very apt term, stopped me from having a collision many many times, both on a bike and in the car.
No cougar, I was probably 2nd in the queue of traffic, it moved away slowly and she used the cycle lane to filter up the inside from the back of the queue. How many folk in turning left check their left wing mirror, she could clearly see the side repeaters as I was signalling but still made a go for it, she was level with the rear quarter as I turned in and spotted her. Completely ****ing stupid manoeuvre even if she had also been turning left!
You know, I wonder how many lives we'd save if we forced other road users (cycle, car, truck) to do a CBT
Okay, let's say you save 25 lives per year, roughly 20% of all cycling deaths. VERY high estimate considering most bikes crashes are caused by the driver.
There are 30,000-90,000 inactivity deaths per year in the UK. Let's be conservative and go for the low number. Your CBT reduces numbers considerably for a valuable form of exercise, and inactivity deaths go up by nine hundredths of one percent.
You've failed.
One of the things that stood out from the Police's reactionary "lets spend a morning stopping all cyclists and HGVs in London" day this week was that a [url= http://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/hgv-drivers-caught-in-bike-safety-operation-8946997.html ]full 50% of HGVs were breaking the law[/url]. They only stopped 20! The majority were drivers driving for too long (therefore tired and not paying attention) while the others were for vehicles not having the required safety measures fitted.
I really would like to see this video re-done with a non-articulated contruction lorry (of the type involved in so many of the London fatalities) with properly adjusted mirrors. I simply don't believe that there is a significant blind spot to the left of these vehicles.
Seems I'm not the first person to have this thought:
[url] http://mccraw.co.uk/sorry-mate-i-cant-see-blind-spot/ [/url]
Also, apparently this is the mirror coverage that you're supposed to have on a modern HGV:
[img] http://forum.ctc.org.uk/download/file.php?id=25160 [/img]
It's clear that the truck in the video falls well short of that.
None of this changes the fact that cyclists are very well advised to avoid riding up the left of such vehicles, but rather than bothering cyclists without helmets, the Met's efforts would be rather better spent checking the mirror adjustment of the trucks on our streets.
the truck in the video is about 15years old and has all the correct mirrors for a vehicle of that age. The only one missing that a modern one would have is one above the windscreen on the passenger side looking directly down and across the front of the truck.
https://twitter.com/ormondroyd/status/403584120472629249/photo/1
There's a contradictory message given to cyclists.
1) Oh, you want lanes? Well we'll give you a few facilities at junctions.
2) FOR GOD'S SAKE DON'T RIDE THERE!! It's dangerous!
It could be said that the vehicle is not really road worth, certainly not for driving in towns and cities, if it has blind spots that large.
As a lorryist mentioned on a similar thread that's happening on facebook just now.. Whatever happened to the 'drivers mate' job that was commonplace years ago? Zero blind spot with one of those..
I never filter up the inside of anything, it's a mugs game.. Is it even legal?