[Closed] How are you voting today?

Great - I live in a ward that is apparently in the top 7% in terms of deprivation and the winner is.... Conservative!

Facepalm.

[quote=pondo said]Great - I live in a ward that is apparently in the top 7% in terms of deprivation and the winner is.... Conservative!
Facepalm.

Sounds like the previous incumbents haven't done such a great job then.

Glad Corbyn survives but [s]media[/s] Labour MPs still got there claws out.

Great - I live in a ward that is apparently in the top 7% in terms of deprivation and the winner is.... Conservative!

Sounds like the previous incumbents haven't done such a great job then.

Funnily enough, a friend of a friend was out leafleting with the Conservative nominee on Wednesday - she had a puncture and couldn't get the trim off to change the wheel, so he drove off and left her to it. Nice.

Pretty impressive results (so far) for Labour considering just about every single media outlet was foretelling their downfall in a jamba-esque frenzy pre-election.

Our local ward had a 40% swing to Labour...

Well a quite interesting result in our constituency. A massive swing away from labour, who are normally nailed on, in a ward with an enormous Jewish community. Nobody has the remotest idea why....

[img] http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2016-04-28T123807Z_1_LYNXNPEC3R0W3_RTROPTP_2_BRITAIN-POLITICS-LABOUR.JPG.cf.jp g" target="_blank">http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/Reuters/2016-04-28T123807Z_1_LYNXNPEC3R0W3_RTROPTP_2_BRITAIN-POLITICS-LABOUR.JPG.cf.jp g"/> [/img]

in a ward with an enormous Jewish community

Me too...-still waiting on results here.

I'm relieved we've gotten rid of Boris as mayor....Unfortunately I fear he may be back as PM very soon.

Forgot to vote, first time ever! Too busy quaffing vino in the garden. The right people won anyway in our district so I don't feel to guilty.

@pomdo that would be interesting to understand why ? Poorer people not voting at all, better off habe perception that prior representatives have not done enough to tackle the issue ?

The crooked D'Hondt system gives us this result in the Highlands:
Tories: 3 Seats Votes 44,693 21.8%
Labour: 2 Seats Votes 22,894 11.2%
SNP: 1 Seat Votes 81,600 39.7%

That's right.

With 39.7% of the vote the SNP got 1 seat, but with half that (21.8%) the Tories got 3 seats. and with a quarter of that (11.2) Labour got 2 seats.

In effect 1 Tory vote cancels out 6 SNP votes, or 1 Labour vote cancels out 4 SNP votes

If that isn't a crooked system I don't know what is.

That sort of corrupt system has triggered revolutions elsewhere.

You do not have a democracy when one person's vote does not have the same value as another's.

(Westminster specified at devolution that the Scottish voting system prevent there ever being an SNP majority in Scotland)

The SNP won 7 out of 8 of the constituencies so have 8 MSPs for the region more than twice the number the Tories got, yet their vote was less than twice. That is how D'Hondt works and seems pretty reasonable to me.

EDIT: Actually 6 out of 8, so 7 in total - conclusion still stands.

All PR voting systems are crap. This one is just less crap than some of the others - and it's still far better than FPTP

With labour now gubbed in Scotland ,all the secret Tories came out the closet. 😉

Turnout in Bristol Mayoral election up to 45ish% from 28ish% previously. A fairly big old hike. Counting doesn't start till tomorrow but locally Labour are sounding confident for Marvin.

epicyclo - Member
BoardinBob - Member
I won't vote for the SNP. Anything else is pointless. I'm not going to bother my arse.
On behalf of all Scots wanting to live in a country not ruled from elsewhere, thank you.

Don't worry, my vote was put to good use in the referendum 😉

That sort of corrupt system has triggered revolutions elsewhere.

How did corruption take a part in it? I'm really not sure there is actually corruption taking place in Highland local politics.

Westminster specified at devolution that the Scottish voting system prevent there ever being an SNP majority in Scotland

Errr, we've just had years of an SNP majority, and it was only two seats short this time. Where do you get your facts from?

can't believe people voted tory, do they not see the news?

turn out in my area was 45% which is pretty shocking given its a vote for who controls the country. Don't understand the people that don't vote

epicyclo - Member

The crooked D'Hondt system gives us this result in the Highlands:
Tories: 3 Seats Votes 44,693 21.8%
Labour: 2 Seats Votes 22,894 11.2%
SNP: 1 Seat Votes 81,600 39.7%

That's right.

With 39.7% of the vote the SNP got 1 seat, but with half that (21.8%) the Tories got 3 seats. and with a quarter of that (11.2) Labour got 2 seats.

That's just the regional vote though. You need to take into account the constituency seats also. Where the SNP took 59/73 seats, with 46.5% of the vote. One balances (or is intended to balance) the other.

This isn't exact numbers but from a quick look it looks like the snp got about 44% of the votes cast, and about 48% of seats. So quit yer cryin.

With labour now gubbed in Scotland ,all the secret Tories came out the closet.

Scottish politics has changed it is lining up more along the lines of Independence (SNP) Vs Unionism (Cons), it suits both parties to play it this way as they have a simple, strong message to project.

Labour conversely don't know what they want to be and have to win back a split vote. As a strategist it must be your worst nightmare, you need policies that will get people to return from the both the SNP and Con folds.

Scotland is interesting - one party talking Tory policies and the other one actually implementing them. Woe is labour in contrast!!!

Next Prime Minister anyone?

[IMG] [/IMG]

bigjim - Member
'That sort of corrupt system has triggered revolutions elsewhere.'
How did corruption take a part in it? I'm really not sure there is actually corruption taking place in Highland local politics.

It's the d'Hondt voting system which is corrupt, not the people. It a separate vote used for the regions in Scotland. (We use FPTP for the constituencies.)

Any voting method that gives more value to one person's vote than another person's vote is a corrupt system.

FPTP does this as only the votes of winners have any merit^ and the winner* almost never [ was it once??] get 50% of the votes cast.

Secondly we can see how many votes are required to get an MP for each party - its never the same number for all parties with a constituency model

All we can do is try to make the unfairness as fair as possible
I agree the scottish system was designed to create hung parliaments so it actually tried to be unfair

^ i always tactically vote, with FPTP, as anything else is a total waste of time. PR does at least allow me to vote honestly
*ie the party that forms the govt

Any voting method that gives more value to one person's vote than another person's vote is a corrupt system.

😯

[quote=epicyclo ]It's the d'Hondt voting system which is corrupt, not the people. It a separate vote used for the regions in Scotland. (We use FPTP for the constituencies.)
Any voting method that gives more value to one person's vote than another person's vote is a corrupt system.
And how would you propose to solve this conundrum?

Let the English pick the govt for you 😉

[quote=ninfan said]Next Prime Minister anyone?

Now where have I seen that image before....

Prime Ministerial you say?

Maybe not so much...

[img] [/img]
She hangs in a buffalo stance.....

Counting doesn't start till tomorrow but locally Labour are sounding confident for Marvin.

It'll probably come down to second preferences in a run-off. Unfortunately, very few people understand how the system works so very few voters will decide the outcome.

epicyclo - Member

It's the d'Hondt voting system which is corrupt, not the people. It a separate vote used for the regions in Scotland. (We use FPTP for the constituencies.)

It's [i]not[/i] a separate vote, that's the entire point.

Northwind - Member
It's not a separate vote, that's the entire point.

It's on a separate ballot paper, and you can vote contrary to your constituency vote, so it is separate no matter what they call it.

scotroutes - Member
And how would you propose to solve this conundrum?

Easy, one vote, one value.

Epicyclo, you're fighting a losing battle. It's not corrupt. It's not perfect either and there are legitimate criticms, yours are fantasy level though.

It's not a separate vote. It's a top up system to balance out the first past the post system used in the first ballot which is completely non proportional.

[quote=epicyclo ]

scotroutes - Member
And how would you propose to solve this conundrum?

The most exciting thing about today is whether Ken will get through an interview without mentioning Hitler, two down two fails, third time lucky.

Easy, one vote, one value.

That is just restating what you want to do. It does not explain how

Free milk for everyone
HOw will you do this?
I will give free milk to everyone

The D'Hondt system is a widely used system of PR, it has pluses - it has minuses. There is often a huge call for PR on here to provide a "fairer" system - see earlier discussion on this thread - this normally happens after the poster's side has lost.

[quote=mefty said] two down two fails, third time lucky.

Downfalls ? 🙂

If I was Corbyn then I'd be planning for a tragic accident involving Ken - maybe falling into an an industrial meat-mincing machine, or having a grand piano falling on his head from a great height.

Its like he's got nazi tourettes

maybe falling into an an industrial meat-mincing machine, or having a grand piano falling on his head from a great height.

An accident in the showers....

Industrial Meat Mincing machine is more efficient, this is covered in the Shock of the Old, in probably the grimmest chapter of a book on technology I've ever read.

Ken's loving the attention, he's the lefts version of Britney Spears 😆

Ken's loving the attention, he's the lefts version of Britney Spears

Toxic?

SNP - 63 seats = 49% of the seats on 46.5% of constituency votes
Tory - 31 seats = 24% of the seats on 22.6% of constituency votes
Labour - 24 seats = 19% of the seats on 22.0% of constituency votes
Greens - 6 seats = 5% of the seats on 0.6% of constituency votes
LibDems - 5 seats = 4% of the seats on 7.8% of constituency votes

(some rounding there)

So, apart from the Greens and LibDems, the PR system has ended up roughly delivering a proportional return. Remember that the Greens don't stand in all constituencies anyway.

TBH the deeper Ken digs himself, the easier it is for Corbyn to bury him.

epicyclo - Member

It's on a separate ballot paper, and you can vote contrary to your constituency vote, so it is separate no matter what they call it.

It's categorically not separate. The constituency vote affects the list vote. Not trying to be a prick, but is this just that you have no idea how it works? Because that's really how it sounds.

Put simply, the constituency vote being FPTP produces skewed undemocratic results. The list vote then attempts to compensate for that, in a way that if you look at it in isolation looks more skewed and undemocratic, because it broadly counters the skew of the first.

Put simply, the constituency vote being FPTP produces skewed undemocratic results.

FPTP is still democratic, it is just a different system.

would be fair to call FPTP less democratic I reckon.