[Closed] Housing bubble.

they have paid all their working life into a system thats geared to give them the absolute minimum if anything back because the government spent it all.

Unfortunately they mostly didn't pay in anything like enough because the government didn't react to the increasing life expectancy.

Where exactly do you live (or want to live).

In the place that I was born and grew up, where every single person I know on this planet lives and where my job is based.

Surrey.

As did I, the difference being I never grew up, lived or worked in the SE. I paid £97.5k for my house, what would that buy you down there?

I do get the entitlement thing though, nobody needs to own a house but on the flipside rentals need to be cheap enough to allow those who can't afford to buy a decent secure tenency.

I am not stretching the truth AT ALL when I say that 97.5k would literally get you nothing.

The rent on a one bedroom studio is around £900 a month. I'm currently paying £1500 for a 3 bed bungalow (it's probably equivalent to a one and a half bed house).

likewise I could probably buy a shoebox where I currently live with what I have saved and a small mortgage.

and you'd be on the ladder.

or you could just keep being angry about it while everyone else gets on with life.

and you'd be on the ladder.

or you could just keep being angry about it while everyone else gets on with life.

But what good would it be if I can't live there?

And you are right, I am angry, but don't for a second think I'm not "getting on with life". I work just like everyone else in this country does to try and improve my situation.

MSP

Maybe its just me but we had naff all when growing up. Money went on bills and food. There were no mobile phones or sky TV to spend your money on but that wouldn't have been an option.

I can only speak from my experiences but most people I know across the board can still have some electronics and some kind of holiday (even within the UK) and don't have to worry about being able to buy enough food for the week (well not after 7 years in the workplace).

In the place that I was born and grew up, where every single person I know on this planet lives and where my job is based.

Surrey.

So suck it up, and get on with saving for a deposit.

I've managed it.

"every single person I know on this planet" has presumably managed it.

You don't need to move into a £400k+ house as your first home. That's the house most people buy when they're 30something with 2 kids and a career. Although it is nice. Although having had to spend the last 6 months of holiday time and weekends renovating it is taking it's toll.

Well the last crash was caused by the banking crisis -

And what caused the banking crisis?

😉

So suck it up, and get on with saving for a deposit.

I've managed it.

"every single person I know on this planet" has presumably managed it.

You don't need to move into a £400k+ house as your first home.

I'm doing exactly as you suggested because the government sure as hell aren't doing enough to help remedy the situation.

I'm not looking for a £400k first house, I'm just looking for a first house point blank. A 2 bed house around here is like £300k, not chump change by any stretch of the imagination and I would imagine far more than the prior generation had to come up with to get on the property ladder.

and you'd be on the ladder.

You call it a ladder, the way the housing market currently is, it seems more of a snake. It traps you into a life, it removes your freedom and choices, and its getting worse. Got a bullying boss, well tough shit you have to sit their and take it and hope your next job isn't equally as shit, because you gave up your choices you are trapped.

So suck it up, and get on with saving for a deposit.

I've managed it.

Biggest and most heinous logical fallacy of the Right: I managed it, so you should be able to.

Sorry but mobile phones, a car, a laptop, a fast internet connection etc are basic essentials now if you want to stand any chance of holding down a decent job.

Years ago they weren't of course, most people were lucky enough to live near where they worked, the job they had was pretty much for life, they did their 9-5, their partner stayed at home and looked after the kids and yet still they could afford to buy a decent house on a single salary.

Now, unless you're incredibly well paid, or you have a nice lump sum from your parents, you'd struggle to buy almost anything on a single salary in most parts of the UK, and that's despite interest rates being at an all time low!

Biggest and most heinous logical fallacy of the Right: I managed it, so you should be able to.

I'm special, my mum says so.

The fact that I don't know any homeless people (or of the top of my head, any of my peergroup still renting) would back up my assertion that the situation isn't impossible. and as he points out, everyone else he knows lives in surrey too, so obviously it's achievable.

A 2 bed house around here is like £300k, not chump change by any stretch of the imagination.

I need to live near London because that's where I make my money, I have absolutely no option.

Not taking the piss, but do you geniunely have absolutely no transferable skills to gain you employment outside of London, whatsoever?

Obviously you might not make as much money, however housing prices may be exponentially less than your drop in salary if you moved somewhere else - personally, i'd love one of those big old terraced villas in the west end of Glasgow, however folk with more money than me have bought them all, so I stay 25 miles away in a slightly (ok, much) smaller house.

Any massive crash in housing prices would see many people who are struggling as things stand in serious trouble & i'd bet it would be investment firms that would pick up the glut of "cheap" houses on the market as the rent from those would make a better return than the interest rates at the banks...

it was never designed for the young to be paying for the oldies pension..

I'm sure I saw a stat that when the state pension started there were 20 working people 'paying' for each pensioner, there are now 4. That's the problem. Life expectancy in the 50's was about 65 for a man. He'd typically retire, live for a couple of years of retirement and then die. Nowadays we retire at about the same age and expect to have 15 years of travelling and socialising before going off to spend another 5 years in a home.

So take the 2 bed flat mentioned on the last page for £220k. Still not chump change, but the mortgage will be about the same or less than the Studio flat rent.

If he can get approved for the mortgage and save up the £25-50K deposit that will be required to get the loan at a decent rate? The days of self cert (liar loans), interest only loans etc for first time buyers are well and truly over. Seems the banks prefer to lend money to the BTL brigade these days.

We aren't talking about saving a "bit of money" to buy a house here.

We're talking hundreds of thousands of pounds.

Considering your attitude; I have zero sympathy whatsoever. You come across as moany, entitled and selfish. If my kids grow up with that kind of outlook, I'll consider myself to be a shit parent.

Not taking the piss, but do you geniunely have absolutely no transferable skills to gain you employment outside of London, whatsoever?

Any massive crash in housing prices would see many people who are struggling as things stand in serious trouble & i'd bet it would be investment firms that would pick up the glut of "cheap" houses on the market as the rent from those would make a better return than the interest rates at the banks...

I work in Software Development so yes my skills are transferable to many a place. Prospect wise - I would be looking at a 50% pay cut I would imagine for doing exactly the same work.

Seeing as I'm here, and I have a job, it would seem stupid to uproot and move somewhere else. Especially considering everyone I know lives near here as are all of my professional contacts.

I would imagine you are correct in regards to investment firms picking up the glut of cheap houses - however I only need the one.

Considering your attitude; I have zero sympathy whatsoever. You come across as moany, entitled and selfish. If my kids grow up with that kind of outlook, I'll consider myself to be a shit parent.

Haha I'm alright Jack!

You can get a mortgage with a deposit of 5%. If you don't have £15k, then you don't have (as you claim) "real" money.
Considering your attitude; I have zero sympathy whatsoever. You come across as moany, entitled and selfish. If my kids grow up with that kind of outlook, I'll consider myself to be a shit parent.

Your comment plays more on the way you view the younger generation than it does on my attitude.

I genuinely honestly hope your kids don't end up with the same outlook as me - no comment on your parenting but I hope they have a much much easier time trying to establish themselves in life.

agent007 - Member

Sorry but mobile phones, a car, a laptop, a fast internet connection etc are basic essentials now if you want to stand any chance of holding down a decent job.

I had an argument in my office about this... Work give you a laptop so you can work from anywhere. I am not expected to provide my own hardware for this and they do not want me to due to issues with using personal software licenses for corporate work.
I do have an internet connection but I work from an office and rarely need to work from home. Should I be required to work from home and require a certain level of internet I would expect work to chip in.
If my work require me to be in contact at all times then they provide the phone and the contract. They put software on it which allows them to track the phone and monitor its use. If they do not provide this equipment they do not get the service.

It has become expected that people will be contactable at all times and pay out of their own pocket for the privilege. Mind you I did work around 35 hours of unpaid overtime last week so for all my bluster I am still just as bad as everyone else...

Haha I'm alright Jack!

I say get **** to the lot of them, build the houses so I might actually have a chance!

A crash would turf these people out and allow me to jump in honestly with my actual money.

It's an extremely sad state of affairs where one would wish life changing consequences on others for ones own benefit, but alas this is the state of affairs

Given the option between someone else doing well and myself, I choose me.

Wow it looks like we have the Daily Mail commenting on this thread with the out of context quoting going on here.

[quote="bails"]You don't pay in and then get it back, you pay in now for the people who are claiming now.
That's how a [url=

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponzi_scheme]Ponzi"

scheme[/url] works. Not a good thing, btw.

Wow it looks like we have the Daily Mail commenting on this thread

I hope they have a much much easier time trying to establish themselves in life.

Whilst I'd love it to be easy, and have enough disposable income to buy a nice 5-series touring and an Ibis Ripley to put on the roofrack (thule of course, not halfords own brand, this is the South East after all) and have lived out my 20's in a batchelor pad. It's not. Since moving here I've never lived alone, owned a car which is now 10 years old and spent a grand total of £2400 on new bikes in 8 years. It's a sacrifice, but 8 years on I have a house (and with the GF in a similar situation we've managed to get quite a bit more than a shoe box).

No one get's it handed to them on a plate, unless you think Made in Chelsea is a documentary.

I would imagine you are correct in regards to investment firms picking up the glut of cheap houses -[b] however I only need the one[/b].

So does everyone else in London with good skills & making a decent salary but stuck renting, that's the problem... whereas the reality is that even in the current climate there are plenty of investors looking at rent prices & thinking there's still more money to be squeezed out of them yet...

I do feel sorry for people in your situation - the easy answer is gtf out of London, I've said it & so have plenty of others but I also understand it's much easier said than done just to up sticks & move your entire life across the country... although that watermill place a couple of pages back did look tempting!

"Sorry but mobile phones, a car, a laptop, a fast internet connection etc are basic essentials now if you want to stand any chance of holding down a decent job"

if your self employed.

So take the 2 bed flat mentioned on the last page for £220k. Still not chump change, but the mortgage will be about the same or less than the Studio flat rent.

[img]

IMAGE.FREEPIK.COM "https://image.freepik.com/free-vector/emoticons--hand-waving-face_17-317133727.jpg[/img]"

Shall IGMC now?

 

I do feel sorry for people in your situation - the easy answer is gtf out of London, I've said it & so have plenty of others but I also understand it's much easier said than done just to up sticks & move your entire life across the country... although that watermill place a couple of pages back did look tempting!

I appreciate that but I'm not asking for people to feel sorry for me - I'm in a very good position, I work in a high growth profession and it puts me in better stead than most.

What I'm asking for is some genuine action in regards to this - we need FAR FAR FAR more houses being built!!

What is essentially being asked is anyone under the age of 30 without wealthy parents need to GTFO of London/SE as soon as they can - we're talking hundreds of thousands of people (if not millions), not just me.

cornholio98 - Member

nonsense

Are you a 18-21 year old currently seeking employment?

What is essentially being asked is anyone under the age of 30 without wealthy parents need to GTFO of London/SE as soon as they can - we're talking hundreds of thousands of people (if not millions), not just me.

I'm under 30.
My parents whilst not on the breadline, their contribution to the house buying process was enough to hire the man with a van (and I didn't ask for it or absolutely need it, but it did make the long wait to payday a bit more comfortable than it would have been).
I've made it work.

I did spend a lot of time looking at that watermill though! so I won't deny the temptation to leave wasn't strong!

But what you're saying boils down to the fact I've spent the last 10years doing what it sounds like you're about to have to do, and you want a shortcut that involves me going bankrupt so you can have my house!

hexhamstu - Member

cornholio98 - Member

nonsense

Are you a 18-21 year old currently seeking employment?

Not any more? What is your point?

I'm under 30. I've made it work.

That is fantastic and encouraging to hear. But you are the exception and most definitely not the rule.

The issue stands with the difficulty achieving it.

There are no "starter" houses here. There are houses, and that is the issue.

But what you're saying boils down to the fact I've spent the last 10years doing what it sounds like you're about to have to do, and you want a shortcut that involves me going bankrupt so you can have my house!

I can understand how what I said would be construed that way - what I was implying that perhaps for my personal situation a crash wouldn't be the end of the world. I don't want your house.

That is fantastic and encouraging to hear. But you are the exception and most definitely not the rule.

Just googled it, the average age for a fist time buyer is the SE is 29, London it's 32. So actually I'm Mr 50%, neither a majority or a minority, next step 2.4 kids.

What I'm asking for is some genuine action in regards to this - we need FAR FAR FAR more houses being built!!

What is essentially being asked is anyone under the age of 30 without wealthy parents need to GTFO of London/SE as soon as they can - we're talking hundreds of thousands of people (if not millions), not just me.

Just googled it, the average age for a fist time buyer is the SE is 29, London it's 32.

Where was your source and how recent was it? I will point you to [url=

ENGLAND.SHELTER.ORG.UK "http://england.shelter.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0004/1076926/2015_02_26_Affordability_for_first_time_buyers_-_FINAL.pdf]this[/url]."

It's from Shelter and created in March 2015. It pretty much disagrees with everything you've said and proves how distorted the house prices have become in regards to age. In fact I would encourage anyone that disagrees it's hard for a younger person to get on the housing ladder to read it - it's quite eye opening.

The trouble is that there isn't the space to build that many houses in the SE unless you build on green belt. The houses at Wisley airport that you mentioned will never be built with this current government. What we need is decentralisation of our economy but that is extremely difficult and can take generations. Go to other parts of the UK and places like Newcastle you see lots of house building, we need the economy to follow.

So it is a government policy issue that needs to be resolved and nothing to do with my or my generations unwillingless to work for it which is what is being implied by most in this thread..

And a quote from the article referenced above:

The average number of first time buyers each year since 2007 is around half of the average level between 1980 and 2003. According to the Council of Mortgage Lenders, assistance for first time buyers (such as the so-called “bank of mum and dad”) is now far more common, increasing from 31% in June quarter 2005 to 66% in June quarter 2011. The increase in assistance for first time buyers under 30 was even stronger, with 77% buying a home with some form of assistance in 2011.
This significant decline in first time buyer activity has flowed through to lower rates of home ownership for younger age groups, which has declined since the early 1990s. The decline has been particularly acute for 25-34 year olds. The proportion of 25-34 year olds owning their own home was 67% in 1991, but has declined to 36% in 2013-14. The decline was even stronger for those aged 16-24, amongst whom the number of homeowners has declined dramatically from
36% in 1991 to 9% in 2013-14.

[quote="thisisnotaspoon"]I'm under 30.
😀 At 30 i was effectively homeless. Or couchsurfing.

[quote=enbern ]I do feel sorry for people in your situation - the easy answer is gtf out of London, I've said it & so have plenty of others but I also understand it's much easier said than done just to up sticks & move your entire life across the country... although that watermill place a couple of pages back did look tempting!
I appreciate that but I'm not asking for people to feel sorry for me - I'm in a very good position, I work in a high growth profession and it puts me in better stead than most.
What I'm asking for is some genuine action in regards to this - we need FAR FAR FAR more houses being built!!
What is essentially being asked is anyone under the age of 30 without wealthy parents need to GTFO of London/SE as soon as they can - we're talking hundreds of thousands of people (if not millions), not just me.
And what London/SE does NOT needed is a lot more people living there, sucking investment out of the rest of the UK

THEGUARDIAN.COM "http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/aug/07/london-gets-24-times-as-much-infrastructure-north-east-england"

London gets 24 times as much spent on infrastructure per resident than north-east England | UK news | The Guardian

In the week when George Osborne claimed he was championing investment in the north, analysis of spending shows that London’s population receive far more than anybody else

Other projects in the capital including tube improvements mean that £5,426 will have been spent on each resident of London compared to £223 on those in the north-east region.

i raise you march and england centric and give you august and uk wide....

i decided i didnt want to rent for the rest of my life and went and worked in africa for 2 years age 23 - thats how i made it work- got to see some of africa, got to see some sights i wish i hadnt and i got to see some sights ill never forget.

enbern

I don't think that it is unwillingness to work but inflexibility. I can fully understand that you may not want to move away from you friends and family in order to find somewhere to live. In a perfect world you would not have to.
Trouble is people have to move for work or to be closer to better schools etc. At this time it appears that the location you are in ticks every box except affordability for purchase so compromise will be needed.
The South East is a mad place to try to start out...

And what London/SE does NOT needed is a lot more people living there, sucking investment out of the rest of the UK

Politicians spend more money in London, people move there. People move there, so politicians spend more money there. Politicians spend more money in London, people move there. People move there so politicians spend more money there.

And so it continues for eternity.

Once again this is a policy fault of the government and does not implicate fault on myself or my generation AT ALL.

The South East is a mad place to try to start out...

You're telling me!! Unfortunately (or fortunately? I don't know..) for me it's the hand that was dealt.

I have aging parents who were lucky (wise?) enough to buy a property down here when it was cheap and thus they are staying put. I won't be leaving my family and friends and if it means I have to find £500k for a house then so be it.

It doesn't have to be that way though. They could just build more starter houses..

In the place that I was born and grew up, where every single person I know on this planet lives and where my job is based.
Surrey.

Life sucks, I too was born there....as an NHS employee I can't afford anything more than a shoe box there now....but to be honest why would I want to live there!?

Surrey is busy, overcrowded, dirty, expensive etc....broaden your horizons and you'll realise that there are many many places around the country better than bloody Surrey!
If you were to move somewhere else you'd find that you see as much of your friends and family as you did before, we certainly have done, people love coming to stay and everyone has cars so getting around is a doddle....the UK is tiny, it's not like having to trek across Australia to see friends!

Part of growing up is branching out in different directions, I have friends all over the country and now abroad too.....life would be very boring if we'd all just stayed in Surrey....now I can holiday in Oz with friends on the cheap, friends can come to Wales and stay with me and we can go hiking and cycling together....life's good, I couldn't imagine anything more boring than spending my adult life where I grew up.

Surrey is busy, overcrowded, dirty, expensive etc....broaden your horizons and you'll realise that there are many many places around the country better than bloody Surrey!

I don't disagree with you but home is where the heart is etc etc

I'm not totally against moving elsewhere but it isn't a solution to the issue.

The issue is there isn't enough being done to make sure there are a good and steady influx of new homes for first time buyers in London and South East.

It has nothing to do with my ambitions to stay here or my lack of willingless to move or my inflexibility to find work elsewhere.

The problem is purely there isn't enough houses and a massive inaction on behalf of the government to do anything at all about it.

"a massive inaction on behalf of the government to do anything at all about it."

in response too -

"Politicians spend more money in London, people move there. People move there, so politicians spend more money there. Politicians spend more money in London, people move there. People move there so politicians spend more money there."

perhaps..... just thinking outloud.

[quote=enbern] The problem is purely there [s]isn't enough houses[/s] are too many people and a massive inaction on behalf of the government to do anything at all about it.Betterer?