[Closed] House music fans...

Just a personal taste thing but the ghostly one would could do with a bit of dirt/filth added. Yeah a really technical term that, im not a musician so dont know what the proper term would be...sort of like the first couple of minutes of this

For the genre/sound you're aiming for, I'd suggest that you need a lot more compression on the tracks overall. Compress the hell out of them until you lose some of the dynamics (the tracks will look like a black bar on SoundCloud!) but get that 'pumpy' feeling.

Also, unless you are favouring the minimal feel, think about layering your kicks up with multiple frequencies, and sharpen them a bit? Together with the compression that should bring some real feel to the tracks.

Think about keeping the interest engaged with some progressive 'drop and bring it back in again' bits with some filter sweeps?

Really impressed with the synthesis approach you've used. It takes thought and time to build sounds from the ground up rather than just be a preset monkey!

If it's anything of a cultural reference to you, it sounds like LFO to me, which for me is a good thing!

Cheers

Rich

Omar Little, cheers much appreciated. Dirt/Filth IS MOST DEFINITELY a technical term as far as I'm concerned, and I know what you mean. Will work on that a bit more...

vdubber67, thanks for the comprehensive reply. I know what you're saying about compression, I've purposefully not applied any mastering compression to any of them yet, but I'm still of an age where I love vinyl and the dynamics it brings. Seems wrong to me to compress things so they lose all their dynamics, but you're probably right. With regards to the pump, I know what you're on about, but pretty much everything is quite aggressively sidechain compressed against the Kick drum in each instance. Do I need to be lengthening the release on the compression maybe? Upping the compression ratio (currently about 6:1 in each case, peaking at about 6-8dB of compression for all instruments against the kick drum)?

With regards to the kick drums, I have layered them quite a bit, 3 different kicks in each case. I think I got a bit carried away EQing though as I wanted each kick drum to sound coherent. In isolation, over a good system or through my HD25's, the kicks sound good to me, but having listened back over some laptop speakers too now, I think I've probably got to reintroduce a higher frequency to the kicks as I understand what you mean. I personally don't like high pitched "clicky" kicks, but I suppose when everyone listens on ipods and laptop speakers, I guess it has to be in there somewhere! When you say sharpen them, do you mean compress them further? Shorten them a touch? Make them decay a little quicker?

Will definitely work on some big sweeps, builds and drops for full length DJ edits... It's all in the pipeline.

Regarding the approach to Synthesis... Have you seen what ES2 can do? JESUS! Apple purposefully make all the presets in Logic sound really dull and naff, but a small amount of fiddling (and lots of trial and error and learning what affects what) and the inbuilt synths in Logic are phenomenal tools. Of course it's probably instantly gratifying to whack a load of money on Massive, Predator and the like, but I figure that by not using presets, all the sounds will at least be my own... That and I'm skint! Wish there was an arpeggiated Synth in Logic though, that's the one downfall... That's where I will admit I used Albino in one of the tracks (albeit I messed about with a preset a touch to get a sound I liked).

Big thanks again anyway... 😀

some nice glutinous sounds in the second track.. 8)

Sweet... nice one. Like all three.. Sound pro enough to me to be in a late night radio mix.

Agree with previous comments, possibly... something about the mix on all three sounds a little 'mushhy', less 'bang'.. dunno if that makes sense? 😕

Make 'em longer too! 😉

I think all three sound a bit too 'neat', likevdubber says they need compression or more layers, but a damn fine effort anyways!

I am just listening to Diggers on Proton though, so hard to judge against that class really!

mboy, you do a bit of dj'ing?

I don't know much about making music but I know what sounds good. Needs some dirty synths in there, compression and more filth as per Omar. Oh and more bass!

Bit like this:

It's an interesting point re the dynamics vs compression. I'm with you in some respects, but it's just the norm for dance-y stuff really I guess. I guess it just comes down to how this music gets played - you don't want dynamics in a club setting really do you - that's what the drops and builds are in there for.

I think you're point about higher freqs on the kicks is the same one I was making when I said sharpen them. Either way I agree! 🙂

Ref the synthesis, I used to run a number of Music Tech Higher Education courses for a Creative Industries college (although I'm not skilled enough to teach on them!) We used to run whole year modules on synthesis alone. It's a true art form in my book.

I've stopped doing so much music tech stuff myself these days with so much bike training, but I really should get back into Logic again..

Anyway - best of luck with the creativity!

Rich

cheers again guys

Agree with previous comments, possibly... something about the mix on all three sounds a little 'mushhy', less 'bang'.. dunno if that makes sense?

Make 'em longer too!

Yeah, they do need some mastering compression to be fair. Had a quick mess about with a few compression settings earlier, it does make it more "ready" for the dancefloor if compressed well, though too much is horrid!

And don't worry on the length front, these were short just to test a few ideas mainly. When I get the sounds that work well together, the 5/6 minute DJ mixes will be made, complete with more dynamic builds and drops.

I think all three sound a bit too 'neat', likevdubber says they need compression or more layers, but a damn fine effort anyways!

I am just listening to Diggers on Proton though, so hard to judge against that class really!

mboy, you do a bit of dj'ing?

There's actually a lot of layering going on in at least 2 out of the 3 tracks, it's just I've actually worked so hard engineering them to sound like they fit, I think I've made them too subtle! Think I'll start noising them up a bit, then just start gating the sounds so that you can hear them at different times, creating a bit more "pulse" or swing...

And I used to do a lot of DJing, not so much any more, trying to get back into it as such, but you very much have to be a producer these days as well to get gigs as you probably know.

Ref the synthesis, I used to run a number of Music Tech Higher Education courses for a Creative Industries college (although I'm not skilled enough to teach on them!) We used to run whole year modules on synthesis alone. It's a true art form in my book.

I'm at Uni now doing an HND in Electronic Music, just started my first year. Sadly gotta wait til next year to do the modules on Synthesis, though I thought I'd get started early... My tutor has already showed me a couple of things that ES2 is capable of though, you DO NOT need to buy Massive or any other host of Synths that's for sure, just twiddle a few knobs (with the knowledge of what they do and how they shape the sound) and you can get the sounds you're after. You're just buying someone else's presets with most synths. It's funny, I remember back 10 years ago, way before I started even having a go at making music, I remember everyone banging on about the Novation Supernova. Having a play with the soft version of it, the V-Station, today and it's easy to see where everyone got their sounds from. That said though, it's still easy to make more contemporary sounds on it too if you know what you're doing (youtube is your friend), just that fashion (and the magazines) dictate what people buy! Still be nice if it had an arp though...

I don't know much about making music but I know what sounds good. Needs some dirty synths in there, compression and more filth as per Omar. Oh and more bass!

Bit like this:

Just been having a listen to that, really like it. VERY Wolfgang Gartner-esque, in a good way... Absolutely love the West Country accent on the vocals too! Obviously couldn't get away with it if they weren't distorted and warped to the hills for the most part, but when he opens the filters up you can really hear it come through... He a Bristol boy per chance? 😉

17 year old yank.

Liked you music, but as others said it could perhaps do with a few more layers and perhaps more variation.

I quite like this bloke's music on Sound Cloud. Weird name, and it wasn't chosen deliberately to be funny, but good music: -

http://soundcloud.com/dingleyandell/tracks?page=2

- Like Eisenach rain

And he's on Myspace here:

http://www.myspace.com/kirsop

Like This Music and San fran rec ...

He normally does stuff totally different to this as part of Voces8 classical singing group - they're pretty good, even though I don't really listen to that stuff normally. Like this:

Liked you music, but as others said it could perhaps do with a few more layers and perhaps more variation.

I quite like this bloke's music on Sound Cloud. Weird name, and it wasn't chosen deliberately to be funny, but good music: -

http://soundcloud.com/dingleyandell/tracks?page=2

- Like Eisenach rain

And he's on Myspace here:

http://www.myspace.com/kirsop

Like This Music and San fran rec ...

He normally does stuff totally different to this as part of Voces8 classical singing group - they're pretty good, even though I don't really listen to that stuff normally. Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM97xF41izs&feature=related or this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Tb-RmPx-4M&feature=related

Hey dude,uve definetly hit on something there,my boy (13 months old) just walked away from "big and small" on the tv ,seemed very interested in the music coming out of mylaptop,please dont underestimate the little bruiser hes been listening to BOOKASHADE since being in the womb. 😀
😀 TOP TUNES

Liking Electro Prog1, maybe could do with a sharper/shorter hi-hat? I'm not sure if yours fits the style of music?
I used to be into music production myself...I'll learned a lot from Rick Snoman's 'Dance Music Manual', some of it may be a bit out date but the basics on structure, chords and effects etc are the same. Well worth buying if you can get a cheap copy? There might even be an up to date revision?

OK guys, have a listen to this, the revisited and mastered (poorly probably) version of my Ghostly Rhythms track...

[url= http://soundcloud.com/markbonnes/ghostly-rhythms-revisited ]Here...[/url]

A lot of work has gone in layering sounds, and also introducing some more high end harmonics (and some more syncopation) as this was all missing from the first edits.

Let me know what you think again if you would.

Cheers

And finally (until I manage to record a vocal for it) here is the final version of said track...

[url] http://m.soundcloud.com/markbonnes/ghostly-rhythms [/url]

Please have a listen, again any feedback really appreciated. Done a lot to layer the sounds, and added filter sweeps to add some interest so please let me know what you think...

My kids, 9 and 15, like it.

I think it's Most Excellent, great effort, more Bass, more Deeeeeep stylee but I see where you are going...

You now have another follower..

Cheers guys, will be sure to post links to any new stuff I upload too.

In the meantime, please go ahead and send my link to anybody else you might think would be interested and get them to follow me too! 😀

Yeah pretty good. The upwards arpeggiation on the bass and acidish line is a bit relentless for me. Would prefer a juxtaposition. Don't like the swooshes but yes. It's pretty good. Sub bass throb in the break down would be good. Keep going, the skills are def there.

Yeah I kinda meant for the bass and lead to be quite relentless, just the sound I was aiming for. I know its polarising, but I wanted a fairly striking sound. Though I'll definitely work on creating a bit more variety too for forthcoming releases, it's weird cos I'm finding the musical bit (creating basslines, leads, chord changes etc) the more difficult bit, but doing the engineering and mixing is where I'm strong already.

Sub bass throb in the break is definitely there, it's probably just a bit subtle unless you're listening on a big system, wanted the sub to be a real sub bass, so nothing above 200Hz and it goes right down to below 50... To be fair, I probably need to work on creating a sound that works equally well on any sound system, as now I've listened to the track myself on my car stereo and laptop speakers, there's definitely some dynamics lost because of the loss in frequency response due to poorer sound systems. After all, outside of a nightclub, most people are likely to listen to my music on a laptop or an iPod not a quality HiFi really...

Put a donk on it 😉

Here's my latest track...

[url] http://soundcloud.com/markbonnes/groovy-mf-unfinished [/url]

Bit more of a funky breakbeat thing going on, with some strings and even a guitar! Check it out, let me know what you reckon...

🙂

Put a donk on it

😀

Sorry M-Boy. 😳 (Can't resist Put A Donk On It)

Well, I don't know about all the 'proper' music production jargon, but to me, it duzent really 'settle down', get into a groove and stay there. It kind of hovers, without landing.

Like, it gets to the end of the street, but it duzent turn the corner, you know?

Does that make any sense at all?

It's like foreplay without the ensuing act of complete union, or a fart which brews but never pops.

Some great soundz dem in there though, and it has potential. Atm, it's like a nervous child which hazunt yet developed fully and come of age...

I'm following you mBoy, liking the development, only two things I'd add..

More Bass Man, more Bass.

Groove, more groove Man.

Having said that loving your stuff!!

Cheers bikebouy

Though as for the bass, what are you listening to the track on? I can assure you there is quite a bit in there, I trimmed it down a bit cos it was a bit too muddy on decent reference monitors before I did. Though it would have sounded great in the car or on an MP3 player!

As for more groove? 😕

What can I say, I'm bloody trying! I've pulled out almost every trick in the book to make that track have swing and groove along nicely... There's not a hell of a lot else I can do! If you've got an example of a track you have in mind, let me know, I'll see if I can replicate the kind of groove you're after if possible...

LOL @ Elf, loving the metaphors! I didn't want to create something that just sat in a beat for minutes on end this time, with nothing else happening. I really wanted to experiment with a track that dropped in and out of the beat, with a decent ambient breakdown in it. It's all a learning experience anyway...

Nah it's good man. It's good.

I just feel it needs something a bit raunchy in a subterranean sense. Sumat underneath, threading it all together. A [i]groove[/i]...

It's like proper sexy lingerie, but it needs a sweaty steaming body inside it...

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/big-fat-and-bouncy ]Meanwhile, back in the Jungle....[/url]

Im liking the tracks. Keep at it. Aside from the compression that was mentioned, they would benefit from some reverb being added to the high frequency parts. It'll help them sit better in the mix. Everything seems to be on the same plain at the moment. A bit panning will help with this aswell.

To give the tracks a bit more groove look to get some percussion on their. Think Funk D'Void and you won't go far wrong.

A 'cheat' to give tracks a bit of a lift when they kick in after drops, is to nudge the bpm down 1 or 2 bpm at the drop and increase it back when it comes back in. Imperceptible as far as tempo goes but it does work.

I just feel it needs something a bit raunchy in a subterranean sense. Sumat underneath, threading it all together. A groove...

Again, what speakers you listening on? If I sent you a CD audio quality version of the track (MP3 loses low end detail) and you can listen on speakers that go low enough, I assure you there's subterranean bass in there! It does follow the main bassline though, maybe it should be more prominent and follow a pattern of its own to be a bit more noticable perhaps...

In fact, I'll give that a try tomorrow, see how it sounds! 😀

Im liking the tracks. Keep at it. Aside from the compression that was mentioned, they would benefit from some reverb being added to the high frequency parts. It'll help them sit better in the mix. Everything seems to be on the same plain at the moment. A bit panning will help with this aswell.

Cheers bobbyg81, was just about to say there's quite a lot of reverb in there, then checked the highs and... Well, no reverb! Dunno why, there's reverb on most things in there, but I didn't put any on the highs! What do you reckon would work best, long tail on the reverb for the highs, or a short one?

They're panned a bit already though, will try spreading them further.

Nice tip on the BPM drop idea, will give that a try sometime too.

As far as rverb is concerned Id just experiment. It really depends how the sound interacts with the other parts in the mix. Be quite brutal with the panning of the higher freq sounds. Hard left and hard right may sound a bit extreme on first listening but can sound great. Especially if you have them move left and right throughout the track. For example have one 'lead' part do this /\/\/\/\ and the other \/\/\/\/ Hope that makes sense. Ive never used Logic but it'll def do panning automation.

A book I swear by is this

[url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Art-Mixing-Mix-Pro-Audio/dp/0918371171 ]Art of Mixing[/url]

It really is superb. Because it is visual it makes sense immediately. It helps me anyway.

Again, what speakers you listening on?

Nah, that's not what I meant; what I'm on about, it a funky sexy dirty raunchy groove running through it, like the meat in a kebab...

It's hard to explain really.

At the moment, it reminds me of a very lovely yet quite cold and unattainable lass I knew in college; she was well nice, but she needed to relax more, release her inner creature....

I have had several cayns of lager tonight mind, so may very well not be making a great deal of sense.

Mmm....kebab....

Oh and they're classic B+W DM601s btw. Not any old pony shite.

Ah right tidy, I had/have (think they're at my mates Dad's house still) some DM603S2's, the floorstanding version with an extra bass driver... Top notch speakers indeed!

So there you go mBoy, we're loving it, loving it large..
Keep at it, all this chat about "adding stuff" and "direction" t'is only cos' we care about what you are doing, I mean having the danglies to get "all mixed up" and knocking out some tunes then posting on here about it, I mean us lot!! c'mon, we'll never agree on anything right.
I think Elf's a good point. Don't forget he's from an era when it was seriously "kicking off" back in the day, he's been there and ate the kebab so to speak, he's got a good point though, something kinda groovy, something deep, something with presence, but it’ll all come with time and as they say “practice makes perfect”.
Will Saul’s worth listening to, if you have the time, the guys been around for donkeys years and has and still does knock out tunes, take a listen to his stuff, or indeed my mate LukeVegas, also DeepHouse Proposal, Timothee’ Milton, Patrick Di Stefano, Monsieur_Cedric, Dingle Yandell, all these guys (and many many more) are on soundcloud, all have their own style, all knock out tunes for a mood.

It’s very difficult to give positive criticism, very difficult indeed, but all I think I’m saying is, well this. You’re keen (excellent) You’re developing a style (most excellent) You’re taking on board what we’re saying (this could be dangerous!!!)
But most of all, You’re doing it and having fun.

Most excellent.

An Acid House stylee clap from me.

[img] [/img]

mBoy, I used to produce house/hard house music, but helped producers more than actually producing. I will have a listen at home on my studio monitors and post my listenings this evening. 😉

Ghostly Rhythms has just been stuck in my head throughout a team meeting!

Guys, cheers again, your feedback means a lot, and any criticism is taken positively I can assure you... I'm massively keen to learn and further my skills and abilities, and I'm trying to soak stuff up like a sponge.

bobbyg81, what you've said about automating the panning, yeah Logic supports it no problems, will give that a try. Makes sense now I come to think of it.

Milkie. When you give it a listen, bear in mind it's an MP3 over your studio monitors. If you want me to send a WAV over, I'll sendspace it, my email address is in my profile and I'll just reply with the full quality version for you.

bikebouy, I'm only a handful of years behind elf to be fair, I may have only recently started producing, and whilst I wasn't on the "scene" when it was kicking off, I'm old enough to know better so to speak! 😉 Cheers for the names, will check em all out on Soundcloud later, much appreciated! And cheers for the good words fella...

😀

Odd, just wrote a long post thanking you all, but don't know where it's gone! 😕

But yeah, muchos gracias guys, all criticism taken constructively don't worry, so cheers 😀

EDIT: Ah there it is, its appeared now!

No probs mboy. Evry little helps. Ill add you on soundcloud if you dont mind. Ive got a couple of ideas I posted for a mate to collaborate on.

Nearly as old as Elf??

What in mind, body or spirit??

Well I'm half a dozen years behind him in body, several years advanced in mind though of course! 😉

That still duzent really make you all that old, mentally. 😆

I think Elf's a good point. Don't forget he's from an era when it was seriously "kicking off" back in the day, he's been there and ate the kebab so to speak

This is true. I have had many kebabs. Some havunt stayed with me for very long, others have made a lasting impression on me.

That still duzent really make you all that old, mentally.

Too bloody right mate! I still like acting like a big kid myself... 😉