[Closed] Holiday lets - what facilities etc?

A lift.

Or, at the very least, an escalator.

Flat roof I could access from a window for sunbathing

Not possible PP - listed building, roof will be out of bounds - no safety rail which is a shame 'cos I use it a lot.

I'd say dining for six. I'd rather be a little cramped around the table than have to do two sittings.
Dishwasher would be a big advantage, nobody wants to stand around doing the washing up on holiday.
Cafetiere would be grand, unless you're going to supply pods for a machine.

We have a business doing this. Your management company will use airbnb and booking.com as thats where most bookings come from.

You will need decent internet service, public liability insurance to protect you. If it's a flat you need to check if it is allowed within the terms of your lease or you get permission from the building management company

Washer and if no outside space a dryer.

Coffee machine.

Netflix would be a bonus but not necessary.

6 place settings as with 4 adults you may still want an extra plate.

King size beds. Std doubles are crap if you're are high end.

A good cleaner.

Decent internet that works everywhere in the flat.

Good quality bed linen and towels.

washing machine / dryer / Dishwasher is essential

Easy to operate heating. If it's a holiday let in Edinburgh many of your guests might feel the cold, even in August.

At least one Smart TV so that they can get Netflix / amazon prime. I'd have one in each bedroom as well.

Loads of kitchen utensils. Having place settings is no good if you can't actually cook anything.

Nothing decent, and remove anything personal to you. You're talking about having potentially 20+ different lots of people staying during the six month period. Things will get damaged. If letting for holiday (probably 1 week maximum per booking) use to couples then I wouldn't worry about a dishwasher, fancy coffee machine, etc. If for longer term 'professional' letting then obviously it needs to be more like a home.
Also, with apologies to anyone with young children, I would think twice about setting it up to let to families unless you have a stock of bedding / furnishings / mattresses which you don't mind being chucked out.

Chrismac - my letting co do NOT use air B&B and will not. Other sites tho yes. Its a freehold flat so no management co. Needs legal stuff tho including probably licensing and will need to be up to HMO standards ( a condition of the letting agents) so fully integrated fire alarm system, and CO detectors etc etc

All that sort of stuff is semi organised. Its more what facilities are needed. I will ask the company i have in mind but at the moment they are struggling with lockdown and a takeover of another company so are not in a place to answer queries

Bottle of prosecco / bowl of fruit for every arrival? ( I intend to do this) Would you expect other food stuffs? salt and pepper? Basic stuff like oil, flour, tea and coffee

Thanks folks

A good cleaner

Good quality bed linen and towels.

Twice a week clean and change of bed linen is part of the service from the management co.

TVs in the bedrooms? Really?

If you are doing short-term lets, then someone will be coming in to clean, change the bedding and towels regularly? If you are hoping for a single 6-month lease to one family, then they need a washer and dryer.

I have stayed in airbnbs for a few nights to 1 month stays while moving jobs (in research, move a lot). As a minimum I want privacy, good / reliable internet (doesn't have to be fast but needs to be reliable), a fridge and freezer, enough of a kitchen to cook and preferably an oven. Enough plates, bowls, mugs, glasses and cutlery for your maximum occupancy (fire regs etc?); sharp knives, bottle opener, tin opener, and kitchenware and a decent variety of pans. A bit niche but I also needed somewhere secure to store my bike.

If you are doing a holiday let, then the big bedroom ideally would offer a pull out sofa bed in addition to the double bed if there is room for it; or a pop up bed assuming you have room to store it somewhere and your cleaner/management company can be paid extra to set up and take down depending on what different customers want.

I saw most places had a coffee machine and coffee and tea bags provided. Again assuming the cleaning services can be paid for additional management, having a pint of milk, salt, pepper, tea bags, coffee provided was nice; a fresh loaf of bread, butter, eggs also provided was a perk but can lead to a lot of waste depending how long your occupancies are. Do provide guidance on how recycling works in your folder of information with the Wifi code etc! If you are looking at lots of 1-2 night stays then your biggest issue is going to be management of cleaning in between guests.

Some of the things that we've particulary enjoyed in various holiday lets have been a bookshelf with a selection of different types of books and/or DVDs and a cupboard full of board games.

TVs in the bedrooms? Really?

Really.

Ta folks - i am going to try to avoid anything less than a weeks let - I do not want it to become a weekend party flat for stag and hen dos!

Good call PP -there will be a bookshelf left in with a selection of classic and modern novels and some reference books. Some board games as well can be left.

The smallest room that is now the bike shed will be used for storing all our personal stuff and well locked up

Space to sit, comfy beds, good cooking facilities and laundry facilities, bath/shower and good cleanliness. Not bothered by a TV, mobiles now have the internet so see no need especially in a city.

It’s a holiday let not a home.

sexpond

What's the aversion to airbnb? I spend a lot of money every year on holiday rentals (probably in the region of 5k last year), would rent the sort of thing you're talking about (although, not with the stairs), an I only ever check on airbnb. You're simply cutting out huge swathes of customer base by ignoring it.

I'd put a bunk bed in the big bedroom, dishwasher is a must, plus a coffee machine with lots of pods refreshed for each let. Smart TVs or chromecast in both bedrooms, place settings and seating for 6.

Plus some board games or a switch and some party games if you're looking for 2 couples

nobody wants to stand around doing the washing up on holiday

Bizarrely I find one of the simple pleasures on holiday is a bit of washing up. Cos you're rarely making gourmet meals it's five plates, five forks, two pans etc etc.

What’s the aversion to airbnb?

Ethics and control.

the agent I have in mind will not use them and I agree.

You have just as much control in airbnb as any other holiday let. From an ethics perspective, is it that the holiday let is pricing out locals? You should probably consider why you're doing it then..

Bizarrely I find one of the simple pleasures on holiday is a bit of washing up.

If there's a dishwasher, you're not obliged to use it if you don't want.

If you do have a dishwasher, then provide at least a couple of days worth of detergent for it.

We dont do the wine but we are more focused on business travelers and weekenders. We leave coffee pods for the machine, tea and coffee and toiletries. We have Netflix via the management company.

Consider zip-link beds, which can either be a king-size double, or twin beds.

You do not have the same control with air B&B and its emergence has done much social damage and it actively facilitates tax avoidance / letting of property in dangerous condition / avoidance of local planning regs. Plus a huge list of other issues which this is not the time and place for

Its a short term thing for us for a few years - can't let it normally as we want to live in it in the winters

We will be aiming for a top end sort of let – and charge accordingly.

Do you have a parking space?

If I was paying top dollar for a holiday let and had to climb 100 stairs to get to it, it had better have either a killer view or be pretty damned luxurious.

No parking space and no way to get one. On street parking that is at a premium. The views are killer tho and we intend to have it really nice if a bit quirky!

Dishwasher essential.

If there is no parking that could be an issue.

Make sure the kitchen is well equipped, a lot of people use apartments so they can avoid the significant expense of eating out.

The climb up the 100 stairs could be off putting.

I had quick look on AIrB&B and there are a lot of very smart apartments available. Is the gentrification of Leith complete now?

TVs in the bedrooms? Really?

Not in my experience. I can't recall a single holiday let I've stayed in that had TVs in the bedrooms.

A good decent size one on the lounge is essential though (32" min).

If it's marketed for 6 sleeping, then it must have space for 6 at the dinner table, and space for six to sit comfortably in the living room. Wifi that works and is easy to reset and hard to break. Take your hifi out, by week three someone will have failed to get it to work and rearranged half the wires hamfistedly trying to sort it. Meanwhile the batteries to the remotes get nicked or swapped to whatever runs out first. For music, get an Alexa and set it up with a guest login.

High rent, dishwasher is important, washer/dryer too. TV in bedrooms, freeview is fine, but something like a Roku stick so guests can get onto streaming services in the living room.

Spotless matching glassware, crockery and pans, stainless is your friend here. Useful knives and the usual openers, grater, garlic press etc. Microwave that doesn't need a manual to work it. Fridge doesn't need to be huge, aside from the stairs, there's shops nearby and city break usually means eating out.

Staples: Salt, pepper, vinegar, brown, ketchup. Tea/nescafe/milk and sugar, enough to survive the arrival evening. Box of shortbread rather than fresh fruit, you can buy enough for the season and cleaners can put a new one out weekly.

Thanks folk - I forgot a microwave - I take it the 20 yr old one some one left us that is really tatty will not do. A microwave expected?

gonna cost us a fair bit to set this up. But if we can let it 20 weeks a year that income will be nearly as much as our pensions!

Thanks for your thoughts - the timetable for this is now under a year and I want to get everything all sorted in my head so it can be implemented quickly and easily. PPPPPP

Comfortable sofa/s and chairs and enough of them. Supply cleaning products and cloths, it will encourage guests to clean up any spills and keep your home looking fresh. Also bin liners, clingfilm and foil. Vacuum cleaner needs to be easy to use and readily available.

Is the gentrification of Leith complete now?

Oh yes indeed and has been for a decade or more. In the time I have been here we have gone from never seeing a tourist to the place being clogged with the buggers!

I very much doubt you'd get 20 weeks out of a year. When I was looking at the option in brighton, agents were very cagy as to the occupancy rates, but checking what was available it seemed that most stuff was occupied approx 50% of the time. Once you've paid an agent and factored in the increased wear and tear, a holiday let is really no more profitable than a 6 month AST in most circumstances, so I would take the figures from there to form the base for your sums, expecially if you don't want to open it to the way most people rent holiday lets (particularly after the way most small-scale rental companies have treated customers during covid).

I'd expect a high end rental to have been decorated throughout within the last year, and not contain any furniture from Ikea or similar. This sort of stuff is what you're paying extra for

Or, Just let it to someone for a fixed period of 6 months, save yourself a shit load of hassle, and don't be a two faced fanny who moans about holiday lets in Edinburgh, and then does it himself?. 🙂

Is the gentrification of Leith the shore complete now?

Step back from the shore and I'd say there's been little change in the past 20 years.

No beer - If i could I would but I don't see that as particularly practical especially with the new scottish assured tenancy.

5lab

The agent reckoned he could get 50%+ occupancy in the first year and 85%+ in the second - and they already run some similar flats near me. The numbers are crazy. 6 months let period - first year £6000 to us after fees etc. Second year £10 000+. 6 months at normal rent would be after fees around £4000.

Its a very small scale operation - at the time I spoke to him they ran 5 flats only as holiday lets ( plus a normal letting agency) This is deliberate to keep the standards high. They have teir own cleaners directly employed and all laundry is done at their offices

Air B&B is only a part of the holiday let market and top end stuff around here tends not to go on it.

It will be fully painted beforehand and also decent furniture - a lot of which will be new. But maybe Ikea?

I very much doubt you’d get 20 weeks out of a year. When I was looking at the option in brighton, agents were very cagy as to the occupancy rates, but checking what was available it seemed that most stuff was occupied approx 50% of the time. Once you’ve paid an agent and factored in the increased wear and tear, a holiday let is really no more profitable than a 6 month AST in most circumstances, so I would take the figures from there to form the base for your sums, expecially if you don’t want to open it to the way most people rent holiday lets (particularly after the way most small-scale rental companies have treated customers during covid).

I’d expect a high end rental to have been decorated throughout within the last year, and not contain any furniture from Ikea or similar. This sort of stuff is what you’re paying extra for

One of the big advantages of a holiday vs AST is the taxable status of expenses.
And of course there's a balance to be made between occupancy and rental rates. Finding the sweet spot which factors in changeover costs and average occupancy rate is where a decent agent that knows the market will earn their money.

At the moment though, I'd say all bets were off.

The agent reckoned he could get 50%+ occupancy in the first year and 85%+ in the second – and they already run some similar flats near me. The numbers are crazy. 6 months let period – first year £6000 to us after fees etc. Second year £10 000+. 6 months at normal rent would be after fees around £4000.

I would suggest that the agent has probably got reason to inflate their numbers somewhat. I'm not saying it can't be profitable - otherwise no-one would be in it, but when I dug into what actual occupancy rates appeared to be at 2 weeks out vs what was being suggested, there was a gap. I can't see that repeat years would have a significant increase in occupancy in the market you're in - surely not that many people are repeatedly coming to edinburgh for a week, wanting a 2 bed flat? I think repeat occupancy - especially not 60% of the people who visit in their first year? For sure repeat bookings do exist, but in that sort of market I would expect it to be the exception rather than the rule (this would differ in countryside lettings, etc)

If i could I would but I don’t see that as particularly practical especially with the new scottish assured tenancy.

In Edinburgh, it'd work fine, there will be space within the rules for fixed let periods, a letting agency will let you know for sure.

One thing to consider is the type of occupant. I work with contractors who use AirBnBs 3-4 nights a week every week. I suspect they make up a significant part of the Edinburgh market. You may miss out on that market if you stick to weeks only.
If you are canny, you can get the contractor and weekender market sewn up with the right rate.

5lab - not according to the research I have done. the reason for the lower first year occupancy is that you have no reviews so its less attractive on line. So second year when you have some you get higher occupancy.

Edinburghs tourist market has boomed over recent years with a huge shortage of accommodation - especially decent standard self catering. The holiday market is completely different to contractors and I do not want it let to weekend party goers - a big reason for not using air B&B

There is a market for smallish decent self catering flats for weeks holidays

Get a third party to make sure the smell of Putoline cooked on the hob has gone.

Lots of good points above but I'd echo the comfy beds. I've stopped in plenty of self catering places that have been brilliant but I won't return due to coming home tired with a bad back. And defo dishwasher, I'm not going on holiday to do more chores than at home.

you'll get significantly more rentals if you allow dogs \;-)