Forum menu
... you’re ostensibly saying that if someone upsets or offends you then you have the right to hit them. That just cannot be right in any civilised society.
Is it civilised to verbally attack somebody in public without provocation?
It could be argued that Rock's actions are potentially more harmful than Smith's. But somehow one is OK and the other is not, because violence. I don't think that's very civilised. Bearing in mind its not the first time Chris Rock has attacked Smith's wife on stage, right or wrong, it's an unsurprising reaction to totally unacceptable behavior.
Will Smith was laughing at the joke before he decided he wasn’t going to laugh at it.
Laughing on the outside. It's evident in his expression that he's deeply uncomfortable.
successful rapper would be a bit better at using words to resolve the matter.
What, you mean like Biggie and Tupac?
Sorry, uncalled for!
Is it civilised to verbally attack somebody in public without provocation?
Well, no but then that's not quite what happened here is it. The provocation comes in the form of being a celebrity at an event that has become synonymous with roasting. It's a bit like asking if what Frankie Boyle does is acceptable. If you go to one of his gigs, you have to accept that you might end up being the very hurt butt of his jokes.
Perhaps then the real question is why on earth we feel the need to adopt that kind of appraoch at the Oscars (or the Golden Globes, BAFTAs etc); why do we have to behave like this in order to get people to watch?
It could be argued that Rock’s actions are potentially more harmful than Smith’s. But somehow one is OK and the other is not, because violence.
I don't think many people are saying that what CR said was okay. There isn't always a right and wrong and on this occasion they were both quite clearly in the wrong.
I'd argue that rock is a bully, or certainly was in this particular scenario and, much like all bully's, plays the victim when the tables are suddenly turned.
I am glad this is the virtual world when so many here think it is ok to hit someone
The stunt took place in the fake world that is Hollywood. If it wasn’t for this no one would have even known the event took place.
Is it civilised to verbally attack somebody in public without provocation?
As I said, Pinkett Smith and Rock clearly know each other as they have worked together. No idea if they are besties or hate each others guts but I'd imagine it's somewhere in between
She also said that she 'wants to make friends with her alopecia.'
I can see how Rock would think it was ok (in the same way I can see why Smith would want to go and slap Rock), especially given the 'Roast' style these awards shows have been taking over the last few years.
I don’t think many people are saying that what CR said was okay. There isn’t always a right and wrong and on this occasion they were both quite clearly in the wrong.
^this tbh. Both parties should just accept it was bad judgment all round and move on.
I’d argue that rock is a bully, or certainly was in this particular scenario and, much like all bully’s, plays the victim when the tables are suddenly turned.
I don't think he tried playing the victim at all, just took the hit and tried to continue, many others would have used it for all it's worth, flopping around the floor, storming off or whatever, but he made light of the slap and moved on.
I think the person playing the victim gave an oscar winning performance at their acceptance speech, weird how nobody is laying into Amy Schumer for her belittling the likes of Kirsten Dunst earlier, or Jesse Plemons who had to endure a lot of annoyance, but that's the Oscars/Emmy's/etc.
I'm just amazed folk are going on about it so much, i didn't even know she had alopecia, had to look it up and she's had it for years, it's an illness that strikes many people, but it's not the end of the world, i had it last year for the first time in my life, it made me a little self conscious and thought of shaving it all off, but apart from that, not exactly life threatening.
not exactly life threatening.
Does that make it any more acceptable to joke about it at someone's direct expense?
alopecia, had to look it up and she’s had it for years, it’s an illness that strikes many people, but it’s not the end of the world
It can be devastating to a woman's self esteem though, and even if she says she's joking about it, you really shouldn't make jokes about it. Especially in front of hundreds of people and during a live broadcast.
Incredibly bad judgement on the part of Chris Rock, who earned a good slap.
But even if it is random whataboutery, if she made the same joke and got a slap for it would you be cool with it?
I'll say it then, if you're flapping yourself senseless on the point.
My views would be no different if Smith had slapped Rebel Wilson for making the same comment as Chris Rock did. Smith shouldn't have reacted that way, but anyone making a joke out of someone's disability, regardless of gender, can expect that the reaction may be physical.
weird how nobody is laying into Amy Schumer for her belittling the likes of Kirsten Dunst earlier, or Jesse Plemons who had to endure a lot of annoyance, but that’s the Oscars/Emmy’s/etc.
Like I said, it's just the way these things have evolved over the last few years.
They found that if the host basically takes the piss out of the rich and famous for 6 hours straight then the public will tune in and watch. The more offensive the better.
They can have a 'nice' show if they want but then they have to accept that no one is going to watch or even give a shit.
The only solution is if we, the general public, tune in regardless of whether it's entertaining or not. If you think about it, we are the ones to blame here. Sometimes I think we really don't care enough if celebrities are happy or not.
Incredibly bad judgement on the part of Chris Rock,
Yup.
who earned a good slap.
Nope.
I'll say it:
What Chris Rock said was both OK and tame. Not "edgy" at all.
Whether or not he was aware she's got alopecia (it's not effing cancer ffs - it's like taking the mick out of someone who's got acne, is that not OK now? Or is everyone a butthurt little emotional weakling nowadays?)
Hurt feelings DO NOT justify actual violence.
There's so much South Park the Movie going on in this thread it's astounding. Someone made the point about "potty mouths" earlier - it seems people like @Cougar would very much like to see jokes that offend some people become a justification for violence.
No blame on Rock here. He made a joke. Whether you like it or not, there's zero justification for getting up on stage and hitting him. NO to "understanding" - it's out of order and totally unacceptable and if you identify with Smith and think you may have done the same then you really need to take a long hard look at yourself and realise that you're a weak-willed giant retarded .........t.
(emotionally speaking)
I don’t think he tried playing the victim at all, just took the hit and tried to continue, many others would have used it for all it’s worth, flopping around the floor, storming off or whatever, but he made light of the slap and moved on.
I don't think I could have continued after being assaulted like that tbh.
The only solution is if we, the general public, tune in regardless of whether it’s entertaining or not. If you think about it, we are the ones to blame here. Sometimes I think we really don’t care enough if celebrities are happy or not.
Yeah, just sack off these events, they’re well past their sell by date, who really cares about awards for films in this day and age, just breeds actors doing their vanity projects more than normal stuff.
Will be interesting to see what middle ground the police will use not to look into this though, it doesn’t really merit much, but front and centre on live tv must be giving the some worries
I don’t think I could have continued after being assaulted like that tbh.
Harry Kane will be wanting a penalty for it 😂
Why are folks getting wound up about a wee slap ?
I wonder idly now whether Will got up on stage fully intending to leather him and then reconsidered.
Maybe there’s a cultural element I’m missing, but marching up to deliver a slap just seems weird. It’s still physical violence of course, but it feels symbolic rather than an intent to harm. I’ve seen plenty of rucks over the years, fortunately mostly from a safe distance, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen an adult man slap another.
I agree
WS delivered it very well - remember he put himself through months of legit boxing training to play Muhammed Ali. Very good form.... but he basically missed. There is a slo-mo video doing the rounds and you can see that he only made contact with the tips of his fingers.
It really looked like a staged "fight" because CR barely flinched when he got hit. If WS had connected even a slap "properly" - CR would have been on his arse and seeing stars, no question.
I think WS's long walk across the stage probably saved CR's Jaw.
Also - there's a significant amount of crazy shit going on in their marriage / family - I think she slept with one/a number of their sons best friends? Or something? I feel like he just snapped, but had the presence of mind to dial it back.
Not acceptable, but understandable
NO to “understanding” – it’s out of order and totally unacceptable and if you identify with Smith and think you may have done the same then you really need to take a long hard look at yourself and realise that you’re a weak-willed giant retarded ………t.
accept(able) / understand(able) are different words, and mean different things. I can understand how somebody under stress might slap somebody who made a joke about his wife's appearance - without saying it's acceptable.
Alternatively, I can't understand why somebody would think referring to somebody as "retarded" in 2022 in any context at all is acceptable?
I notice no one who has been ‘understanding’ has said if they would have still been so understanding if Smith had done the same thing to Rebel Wilson.
Clearly a 6 foot 5 man slapping a woman would be completely out of order. There I’ve said it..
I’m assuming you are going to now call me a sexist pig right?
Well I'll be honest, I would have beaten him to the floor before walking away.
In fact I have done previously and accepted a police caution for assault.
I'm fine with that.. Verbal/psychological bully's only stop after one thing, and that's physical violence.
A good slap and they will never bother you again.
Im perfectly fine with it.
**** Will Smith, marching on stage and hitting a comedian because you feel emasculated is all kinds of wrong.
Now if Jayden Smith had got up there and slapped him, well that’s another story.
I also don’t think the optics of a black man whacking another black man live on TV will have done the Black Lives Matter cause any favours.
Imagine the fuss if WS had been a white man....
Smith shouldn’t have reacted that way, but anyone making a joke out of someone’s disability, regardless of gender, can expect that the reaction may be physical.
Are you saying that alopecia is equivalent to MS, Parkinsons, etc. Sorry, but it's not a disability. It's a disease that affects your appearance.
Someone insulted my girlfriend's appearance a while ago. Should I have slapped them?
I mean, I wouldn't have slapped them. I would have punched them and kept punching them until they went down. That's what I wanted to do but I took a breath and walked away.
A few days later I told them if they ever said anything like that again we were going to have serious issues. He apologised and nothing more was said about it.
Smith's actions give the green light to every moron like me to go with their gut and 'stand up for their woman'.
Not good.
i didn’t even know she had alopecia <snip. it’s an illness that strikes many people, but it’s not the end of the world
I suspect if your whole identity, career and livelihood is affected by it, you might think differently.
Well I’ll be honest, I would have beaten him to the floor before walking away.
In fact I have done previously and accepted a police caution for assault.I’m fine with that.. Verbal/psychological bully’s only stop after one thing, and that’s physical violence.
A good slap and they will never bother you again.
Do you consider yourself more manly than me?
Like I said earlier, I've ended up in hospital and I'm pretty sure I've put people in hospital before and I don't think it's a sign of manliness. I think it's a sign of unresolved psychological issues.
But I would say I'm getting better. When someone insulted my girlfriend's appearance I walked away and sorted it out verbally a few days later.
I felt and still feel I should have punched him but that's my gut talking, not my head.
TBH, Smith's actions just help people like you justify your violent actions and that is the problem.
Is there one of those long German words to express the boredom I’m already feeling about an event you know is going to drag on for ages in the media but is totally pointless, predictable and tedious
Just be thankful the offended party wasn't white. The entire western world would've gone into meltdown about the overtly racist act, rumbling on in the media for months on end. Meanwhile, Putin sees us all back to our virtue-signalling - looking for things to be offended about on behalf of somebody else - business as usual and invades Moldova,
Yeah, I'm in the 'say what you want but don't be surprised if you get a slap' camp.
Imagine the fuss if WS had been a white man….
Epic whataboutery. Well done.
@batfink:
"Alternatively, I can’t understand why somebody would think referring to somebody as “retarded” in 2022 in any context at all is acceptable?"
In any context at all? Way to see the world in black and white m8. What a failing.
Context:
I'm happy to call someone who uses their fists to settle arguments a retard. It's an apt description of their mental failing. It's not a slight against the unfortunate.
You don't have to like it, but if you believe in freedom of speech you should be abiding by the enlightenment principle - "I detest what you say but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it".
Not a lot of enlightenment going on here.
Meanwhile, Putin sees us all back to our virtue-signalling – looking for things to be offended about on behalf of somebody else – business as usual and invades Moldova,
Did someone mention whataboutery?
You lot still arguing over something fake? The amount of gullible folk on here is staggering.
Did someone mention whataboutery?
It's a chat forum. Pretty much any post that isn't a verbatim copy of the original post could be called 'whatabouterey'. Whatever that is... 🙂
So Chevy - it’s completely beyond your understanding that somebody could be moved to slap somebody that’s just insulted his wife? In front of what? 50m people?
Again, not saying it’s acceptable, just that you understand how that could come about.
What about if Jada was so depressed about her allopecia (maybe because of online trolls) that she’d previously tried to hurt herself? Could you understand it then?
You don’t have to condone something to be able to understand it.
Do you consider yourself more manly than me?
Nope. Not for a second. But if someone, as a relative stranger, insult my better half, they can hardly get upset if they get called on it.
Typical gas lighting Bully attitude.
Actors will act, Hollywood innit. Watch very closely. Chris stands hands behind back and leaning left ready to move right with the slap. Will barely makes contact but it looks dramatic.
Actors will act, Hollywood innit. Watch very closely. Chris stands hands behind back and leaning left ready to move right with the slap. Will barely makes contact but it looks dramatic.
I would 100% agree if it wasn’t for the shouting afterwards
But if someone, as a relative stranger, insult my better half, they can hardly get upset if they get called on it.
Smith didn't call anyone on anything. He assaulted someone.
You seem to be using his actions to justify your own assaults. I very much doubt you are alone.
That is the problem.
Whether or not he was aware she’s got alopecia (it’s not effing cancer ffs – it’s like taking the mick out of someone who’s got acne, is that not OK now?
No, it isn't. Happy to clear up that little misunderstanding for you, have a nice day.
Where's your line in the sand here? What about amputees say, fair game to make 'stumpy' jokes? It's hardly cancer, effing or otherwise.
Or is everyone a butthurt little emotional weakling nowadays?)
No, they just have a right not to have people randomly being ****s at them for the crime being slightly different. Today it's alopecia, tomorrow it's acne, the day after that its the gays and the brown ones.
Pushing back against bullies like you who think it's OK is the very antithesis of being a weakling.
Hurt feelings DO NOT justify actual violence.
"Hurt feelings" perhaps not. But that does not give you carte blanche to do and say whatever you please. There are, like, actual laws against this sort of myopic shitwittery.
There’s so much South Park the Movie going on in this thread it’s astounding. Someone made the point about “potty mouths” earlier – it seems people like @Cougar would very much like to see jokes that offend some people become a justification for violence.
People like me? You don't know me from a hole in the ground. Get to ****, and when you get there, **** off.*
Again, I'm no stranger to dark comedy. Point is, you buy into it. If I went to a Sadowitz gig and got 'roasted' I'd love every minute, the same comments from a bloke in the street and I'd be ringing the authorities. Mocking someone for something out of their control which is likely devastating is just cruel. If I lost my hair I'd be traumatised and I'm neither a woman nor someone whose career was at least partly dependent on how I looked.
Whether you like it or not, there’s zero justification for getting up on stage and hitting him.
There's absolute justification for it, whether you like it or not. It's perfectly fine to publicly humiliate and potentially destroy someone's self esteem but outrageous to give someone what coming from the Smith of seemingly ever-increasing height was a light tap on the cheek? Come on.
you really need to take a long hard look at yourself and realise that you’re a weak-willed giant retarded ………t.
(emotionally speaking)
Well.
(* - want to hit me yet?)
It’s perfectly fine to publicly humiliate and potentially destroy someone’s self esteem
No, it isn't.
but outrageous to give someone what coming from the Smith of seemingly ever-increasing height was a light tap on the cheek?
People are saying that it is not acceptable. That he could have hit him harder is no excuse. It may well be a mitigating factor in how his actions are responded to and dealt with, but it's no excuse. "Yes, I hit him, but could have hit him harder" is a poor excuse for resorting to violence when you have all the avenues open to you to demand an apology.
Someone with Smith's power and position to demand redress shouldn't be hitting people instead of using other means. Understandable that he would want to. Not acceptable that he did.
You lot still arguing over something fake?
Fake or not, it's an interesting ethical debate. And it is a discussion forum, after all.
That he could have hit him harder is no excuse.
Fair point.
Understandable that he would want to. Not acceptable that he did.
And yes, likewise. I don't think an emotional response justifies behaviour, but it does go a way towards explaining it.
There’s absolute justification for it, whether you like it or not.
No, there isn't.
I didn't assault the guy who insulted my girlfriends appearance and I did the right thing.
It feels like completely the wrong thing. It feels like I should have punched him but I know what I actually did was the right course of action.
Now you come along (who by you're own admission have no idea what being in a fight is like) telling me Smith was justified.
If Smith was justified surely I would have been justified. Therefore I am the weakling I always thought I was. Next time I should smack anyone who insults my woman.
You are giving license to mattyfez and all the other people who feel violence is justified to continue assaulting 'bullies'.
Why would anyone contrive such an embarrassing spectacle? No one came out of it well, so what would be in it for those involved?
I don't want to hit you @Cougar - from our posting history and the fact that you think it's OK to hit people, I think the below applies:
@batfink: "it’s completely beyond your understanding that somebody could be moved to slap somebody that’s just insulted his wife? In front of what? 50m people?"
I can understand why he did it (it's obvious) - but I will not show understanding - which is what saying "it's understandable" is doing. It's a sort of complicity IMO.