[Closed] Hitting someone who takes the Mick out of your wife's illness

I am glad this is the virtual world when so many here think it is ok to hit someone

I am glad this is the virtual world when so many here think it is ok to hit someone

Lots of people think it's ok in the real world too.

There are very few people on here saying it was acceptable or "right".

You are right I was trying to keep away from naming names

There are very few people on here saying it was acceptable or “right”.

Coming from a stranger intentionally embarrassing me in front of a roomful of peers and potential employers, yeah, I’d probably have wanted to spark him out myself.

They're not strangers. Chris Rock and Jada both did voice acting for the Madagascar movies.

It’s easy to feel some symptahy for what Will Smith did but if you think about the logic of what you’re saying here, you’re ostensibly saying that if someone upsets or offends you then you have the right to hit them. That just cannot be right in any civilised society.

The veneer of cool has slipped - although it clearly wasn't staged, the cynic in me thinks maybe it was calculated though. He's just come out with a warts-and-all autobiography where he admits that his public persona [I]is[/I] a facade... possibly because a run of flops has annihilated the "Mr Perfect" image... so he's trying to re-invent himself as Mr. Average Joe - look at me, I'm like you, I have problems and get angry, etc. Good way to promote that & get his point across! 😃

Smiths reaction was understandable IMO.

You can't go around insulting people's wives appearance or disability and then get all supprised when you get clocked.

I'm not saying it's right, and I think Smith came off looking the worse for the situation,buy I hardly blame him.

Acceptable? No.

Understandable? Completely.

Is there one of those long German words to express the boredom I'm already feeling about an event you know is going to drag on for ages in the media but is totally pointless, predictable and tedious

Is there one of those long German words to express the boredom I’m already feeling about a thread you know is going to drag on for ages on the forum but is totally pointless, predictable and tedious?

Yes, I appreciate the irony.

I'd like to think of far better ways of belittling someone who pokes fun at people with illnesses/conditions than hitting them but that said, I think if he'd made fun of my wife's MS then I'd have probably been up on that stage as well...

The veneer of cool has slipped – although it clearly wasn’t staged, the cynic in me thinks maybe it was calculated though

This.

Also, the nice middle-class acceptableness of the whole thing. 'It wasn't GBH, it was just a slap.'

If he had properly lost it and launched himself at Rock, got him down, and smashed him repeatedly in the face until he was dragged off by security I could have understood that. I've been there on both sides and I've woken up in hospital because of it.

What Smith did seemed to be almost calculated. Exactly the right amount of provocation, exactly the right amount of force, exactly the right speech to give after...

He did everything right to enhance his image but keep himself acceptable to Hollywood.

Misjudging audience is key. Edinburgh bfringe about 10 yeara ago a comedian was taking the piss out of an audience in a pub in Leith. One punter left came back 5 mins later and petrol bombed the bar.
Rule number 1. Smith's wife is not well (apparently) not cool

it goes against everything Comics believe. Chris Rock feels he should be free to express his comedy as way he wants to, if people laugh then it can’t be wrong?

Ah, yes… the Jimmy Carr defence?

I absolutely agree that you’re entitled to say whatever you like, with the proviso that you then have to be prepared to take the reaction that it provokes. You don’t get to say whatever you like with impunity

You've kind of misframed me there, but yes we agree. Chris Rock is entitled to say whatever he likes (incitement to violence etc aside) but, yes he also has to accept the consequences of his actions/words. So Will Smith "slapped the shit" out of him, Rock made a joke about it and life goes on.

There's no need for the court of public opinion to decide who was right and who was wrong and who should never work again in Entertainment etc.

Oh yes, in retrospect it would have been far more effective to walk out in disgust, especially as he would have empty staged his own Oscar.
But hindsight is a wonderful thing.
Smiths apologised and I think rock should too for stepping over the line,and that should be the end of it.

Watched it on GMB, as usual they made it in to some epic drama, it went on and on for the whole show, very dull, the reality is one guy was out of order and the other guy slapped him, I really can't get too excited about it bearing in mind what is going on at the moment.

I notice no one who has been 'understanding' has said if they would have still been so understanding if Smith had done the same thing to Rebel Wilson.

The follow up act will be an honest, authentic and deeply vulnerable interview with Oprah where he will make a full and honest apology, act in a sincerely contrite way and then pivot seamlessly into his wife's alopecia, exploring the psychological impact of that condition on their relationship, how he stands by her and how she is his, ahem, rock etc. For maximum points, he will also reflect on how hard it is for a woman (or indeed anyone) in Holywood to lose their hair given the way that that community tends to ascribe value and judgement based on looks. He will reflect that is this that most triggered him. £10 says he crys again in this interview.

His seat was handily placed for such an outburst, wasn't it?

I notice no one who has been ‘understanding’ has said if they would have still been so understanding if Smith had done the same thing to Rebel Wilson.

The Rebel Wilson episode was very different - she made a joke about Will Smith's well-documented open relationship and therefore fair game for jokes. What Chris Rock did was well below the belt (although Will Smith could have and should have dealt with it differently). I assume that CR knows about the medical condition and he hadn't just assumed that Jada hadn't shaved her hair for fashion reasons?

you’re ostensibly saying that if someone upsets or offends you then you have the right to hit them.

I'm not saying that, whether ostensibly or otherwise. Rather, acts like Chris Rock for whom being 'edgy' is something on which they've constructed a career do so knowing and accepting that their schtick comes with an amount of baggage. Live by the sword.

So you’d be cool if Will Smith gave Rebel Wilson a slap for making a joke about their marriage?

Is this a reference to an event I haven't heard about, or just random whataboutery?

The Rebel Wilson episode was very different – she made a joke about Will Smith’s well-documented open relationship and therefore fair game for jokes.

So if Rebel Wilson made the same joke you'd be cool with her getting a slap?

I’d probably have wanted to spark him out myself.

We all would. But then we (hopefully) wouldn't (we can't honestly know without going though it ourselves). The motivation and explanation and understanding for what drove him to act is appreciated by most people. It takes control to stop that turning that into violence. Smith lost control. That's understandable but it is not acceptable (or at least it should't be), especially as he has the power to be seen and heard and demand redress.

Is this a reference to an event I haven’t heard about, or just random whataboutery?

She made a joke about their relationship at the BAFTAs.

But even if it is random whataboutery, if she made the same joke and got a slap for it would you be cool with it?

Pierre above has it for me.

Not staged, WS is offended once his brain catches up what what he is hearing. His mouth is another couple of seconds behind. But it's a controlled offended/protective anger, not all out rage.

A slap not a punch. Which for me (once you make the step into the realms of violence being ok in the situation) was a better response. A more thesp response. It's a 'you're a tool' response rather than a 'I am so angry I want to do you damage' response. Again - the logic leap to violence is ok in this situation is needed first.

Rock made a poor choice but he comes from a pretty low rent culture so I'm not too surprised. Americans and their 'roast' humour is shite to a UK ear. It's not funny, it's not clever, it's not even particularly observant. See thing - point and laugh. But this is the nation that elected Trump - sophistication is endemically missing from their common personality.

In the cold light of day WS could probably come up with much better way of making a stand and humiliating Rock for his poor choice of gag. But he didn't. I've never had millions of people watching me on live TV watching for every nuance of my reaction, sat next to my wife, with whom my relationship is publicly complicated, who has just been unfairly insulted/humiliated; knowing in a few minutes times I was in all probability about to stand up and receive a career defining award. I can't say I'd definitely make a great spur of the moment choice in that high stress situation either - who knows.

But industry award ceremonies, no matter what the industry, are the shitest of shit inventions to be boycotted at all costs.

So if Rebel Wilson made the same joke you’d be cool with her getting a slap?

It would be for smiths wife to do the slapping in that scenario, I would say. I'd be equally cool with that.

Ah, OK. So, two thoughts off the top of my head:

1) There is a gulf of difference between mocking someone's lifestyle choices and mocking their illness.

2) Would you be outraged if Jada had slapped Rebel?

Not staged, WS is offended once his brain catches up what what he is hearing. But it’s a controlled offence anger, not all out rage.

A slap not a punch. Which for me (once you make the step into the realms of violence being ok in the situation) was a better response. A more thesp response. It’s a ‘you’re a tool’ response rather than a ‘I am so angry I want to do you damage’ response. Again – the logic leap to violence is ok in this situation is needed first.

A perfect example of what he did being almost targeted to be acceptable to nice middle class people.

I’m not saying that, whether ostensibly or otherwise.

OK noted, it's just that it did come across as that when you said you stood by Smith's 'right to put him on his arse'. I think you probably meant Smith's right to feel so angry he wanted to put him on his arse, which I think everyone here understands.

So if Rebel Wilson made the same joke you’d be cool with her getting a slap?

I do not understand your question - are you asking that if she made the joke that CR made that I would be cool about any response? The answer (obviously) would be no - just as I said WS should have handled it differently than he did.

But in reality what I WAS saying was that her joke was not a personal attack about an individual's medical condition but one about well-documented lifestyle choices and therefore was acceptable. Chris Rock's was not acceptable, nor was the reaction.

Oh yes, in retrospect it would have been far more effective to walk out in disgust

Would it? People would think he couldn't take a joke. It'd be described as a 'flounce' in the celebrity junk rags but I bet I wouldn't have heard about it.

especially as he would have empty staged his own Oscar.

Perhaps this would have given it enough interest to make the entertainment pages of the newspapers, I suppose. But I'm assuming WS didn't know he was going to win.

The best move would have been to go up to the stage and ask CR to repeat (and explain) the joke. But you'd have to be absolutely sure you had the support of the room and weren't letting your judgement be clouded by the fact it was directed at your wife. This sort of move is much easier in hindsight.

We all would. But then we (hopefully) wouldn’t (we can’t honestly know without going though it ourselves). The motivation and explanation and understanding for what drove him to act is appreciated by most people. It takes control to stop that turning that into violence. Smith lost control. That’s understandable but it is not acceptable (or at least it should’t be), especially as he has the power to be seen and heard and demand redress.

I wonder idly now whether Will got up on stage fully intending to leather him and then reconsidered.
Maybe there's a cultural element I'm missing, but marching up to deliver a slap just seems weird. It's still physical violence of course, but it feels symbolic rather than an intent to harm. I've seen plenty of rucks over the years, fortunately mostly from a safe distance, but I don't think I've ever seen an adult man slap another.

It would be for smiths wife to do the slapping in that scenario, I would say. I’d be equally cool with that.

WTF is going on on here?

Boys are only allowed to hit boys and girls are only allowed to hit girls?

Would you be outraged if Jada had slapped Rebel?

No, but then I'm not outraged by this.

What I am is bitterly disappointed. Not so much at what happened. As others have said, it's understandable.

What disappoints me is people who have never been in a fight and don't really understand what it's like to have your first reaction in any conflict be to punch someone in the face start saying that his is somehow OK and Rock was asking for it.

Thanks to a typically shite Scottish upbringing my immediate reaction to any conflict is violence. I have to suppress that, take a breath, calm myself down, and then figure out how to resolve the conflict like a normal human being.

I know there are hundreds of thousands out there just like me and they will see this acceptance of Smith's actions as justification for their own violent reactions.

'I thought he was saying something about my missus so I had to **** him.'

If Smith had reacted in an actually violent way, ie cause Rock damage/pain and people could have seen what real violence actually looks like then I don't think people would be nearly so understanding.

But he reacted the way he did and nice people are saying he did the right thing. I think he was incredibly calculated and I think what he did has damaged our collective attitudes to the acceptability of violence.

The edginess of the 'humour' at these shows has gradually been ramped up over the years in the belief that the guests have no choice but to sit there and be 'good sports'. That can no longer be taken for granted, and I can't help thinking that some nominees will be less willing to turn up for the ceremony in future.

OK noted, it’s just that it did come across as that when you said you stood by Smith’s ‘right to put him on his arse’. I think you probably meant Smith’s right to feel so angry he wanted to put him on his arse, which I think everyone here understands.

Interesting distinction. Yeah, sure, that's a better way of putting it.

What I was getting at wasn't whether Will was right to do it, but rather Chris should've considered his reaction potential collateral damage from that sort of routine. See the Sadowitz in Canada example mentioned earlier - he knew what he was doing and was likely grateful that he hadn't been shot.

Unless you're best mates, CR's gag was a shitty thing to do. Even if you are, with the world watching it's still pretty shitty.

But he reacted the way he did and nice people are saying he did the right thing. I think he was incredibly calculated

Well yes, I think it was calculated, I think Smith could have absolutely leathered him if he wanted too, but he just gave him a symbolic slap instead.

As far as the joke itself goes, Pinkett Smith and Rock clearly know each other but I have no idea if they consider each other friends or if they have to work together but actually hate each other's guts. I'd imagine it's like most people and they get on OK but aren't besties.

Pinkett Smith has said she 'wants to make friends with her alopecia.'

I think it's possible Rock took that as an invitation to make jokes about it. I guess he was wrong.

Since everyone's being understanding, I can understand why Rock felt the joke didn't cross a line. Or at least, I can understand why he would be surprised he got assaulted for it.

What disappoints me is people who have never been in a fight and don’t really understand what it’s like to have your first reaction in any conflict be to punch someone in the face start saying that his is somehow OK and Rock was asking for it.

For what it's worth, I have lengthy experience of being in fights as a recipient.

Thanks to a typically shite Scottish upbringing my immediate reaction to any conflict is violence.

Thanks to a typically shite North West England upbringing my immediate reaction to any conflict is the Mr Myagi defence - "no be there." I'm no fighter but I will almost certainly outrun you until you get bored and find another target.

If Smith had reacted in an actually violent way, ie cause Rock damage/pain and people could have seen what real violence actually looks like then I don’t think people would be nearly so understanding.

I wholly agree. But he didn't.

Don't you of all people with your stereotypical upbringing think that it's actually quite remarkable that he was sufficiently angry to be driven to storm the stage yet didn't give him a Glasgow Kiss?

, I can understand why Rock felt the joke didn’t cross a line. Or at least, I can understand why he would be surprised he got assaulted for it.

I disagree, even if someone says they are a peace with a medical condition, you don't make fun of it unless you're incredibly close friends and know for sure it won't be taken in the wrong way.
You certainly don't make fun of it in front of a huge audience.

Rock was out of line and got a well deserved slap. That's the end of the matter.

Don’t you of all people with your stereotypical upbringing think that it’s actually quite remarkable that he was sufficiently angry to be driven to storm the stage yet didn’t give him a Glasgow Kiss?

Yes, that's what I find remarkable. And like I said, also so acceptable.

It's almost like he wasn't driven by a blinding rage but could have found another solution that doesn't cause a bunch of otherwise nice people to go around saying violence is an acceptable reaction.

It 'looked' like a symbolic slap rather than a full on punch, calculated. His reaction afterwards when he had sat down looks like he was suddenly really angry and upset with how he handled it though, so started swearing and shouting to finish it.

Personally i think CR should have expected a reaction after what he said and WS was right to react, but it was the wrong reaction. In his position and with that audience he had a perfect platform to get an apology and address the 'roast' culture that seems to be the only way these things get an audience these days. As mentioned above though, this has done more to harm the unacceptability of violence in todays society than it has harm to any of their respective careers. CR will dine on it for a year, WS and JPS will get another interview blah blah blah.

Rock was out of line and got a welly deserved slap. That’s the end of the matter.

Sorry, but that's nonsense.

Absolutely no need for violence. I don't think many people would get away with that at work. I'd hope an Oscar winning actor and successful rapper would be a bit better at using words to resolve the matter.

I think Smiths behaviour was wrong, and he'd have been better off sitting tight and using his speech to rip into Rock and shame him for what he said - as it was cruel and out of line.

I also don't think the optics of a black man whacking another black man live on TV will have done the Black Lives Matter cause any favours.

Yeah, folk trying to say it's acceptable for what Will Smith did, Chris Rock made a crap joke, he kind of thought it was ok with the laughs to start with, but saw it went down not too well and moved on, he's front and centre at the awards, so a chat afterwards, or during any break would have been better. There was no attempt to get an apology at all, not even a too far statement.

I'm not sure why Will Smith thinks going up on stage, slapping him, then cursing away would work, in his mind he must have thought it was going to turn out better, but it was a train wreck, i do think there could be more coming out in the next few days, the Smiths marriage is a bit weird, after that talk show stuff last year it got even weirder, i'm just waiting for 50 Cent to kick off again with the wind ups!

I’d hope an Oscar winning actor and successful rapper would be a bit better at using words to resolve the matter.

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