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Let's hope some of those responsible are brought to justice.
They lied and lied and lied for 25 years.
It's a black mark on our Country that this inquest has taken so long to come about
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-merseyside-36102998
Looks like the owners/managers of the stadium are in the firing line as much as chief insp Duckenfield.
And only happened now because of the Human Rights Act and ECHR.
And only happened now because of the Human Rights Act and ECHR.
Which is exactly why the Establishment is so keen to ditch it!
I wonder how The Sun will be "reporting" this considering their sordid history with the tragedy? Too much to expect some humility I'd imagine but you never know.
I don't know the legal ins and outs but I hope that there's no appeal possibility on this verdict? Perhaps someone who knows more could confirm or otherwise?
Justice for the 96 is closer but it has yet to be achieved
Folk need to do time for this
Mistakes happen but the cover up was deliberate and let to such heartache as plod blamed the victims and in such horrible ways
I suspect a prosecution will take just as long as it did to get here.
They'll now find that all the senior Police at the time are suffering from Dementia and are unfit to stand trial....
What would be considered justice for the 96?
A period of rehabilitation for those found responsible?
Agree the organised cover up is a disgrace, very moving listening to this happening live on the radio.
27 years to find out that the establishment lied, really disgraceful
Finally hopefully it can be put to rest.
Why should people serve time? Are people suggesting people went to work that day thinking they hoped people would be harmed ?
Hindsight is s wonderful thing
[i]What would be considered justice for the 96?[/i]
As a minimum: an admission of guilt from those who were responsible and then did so much to evade justice by lying and cheating?
But I'm not one of the families so I really don't know.
Massive day tbh. Some cretins'll still believe the lies of the time but even if nothing else ever comes from it- and I bloody hope it does- it's still a big deal.
[i]Why should people serve time? [/i]
because they actually conspired to alter the sworn statements of serving police officers to fit the narrative that the fans were responsible?
I can't imagine what those affected have gone through and how they feel now. As for justice, not sure. Only the families can answer that. It doesn't seem right though that the ones responsible have effectively "got away" with it and those senior officers are probably enjoying a comfortable retirement.
One of the key issues here is whether fans contributed to their own injuries or death. QUESTION 7 covered this as follows:
Behaviour of the supporters
Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles? Yes or no.
No.
Was there any behaviour on the part of the football supporters which may have caused or contributed to the dangerous situation at the Leppings Lane turnstiles? Yes or no.
No.
The families of the victims, Liverpudlians and Scousers have suffered the backlash of the inference that fans were irresponsible ever since. Pilloried and abused, shame and discrimination at the callous hands of The Scum, for example. This has largely been brought to boot since the announcements in 2012. Now The Scum will have to GO! #JUSTICE #JFT96 #YNWA
This is only one of hundreds of cover-ups by Police or officials that happen every day here and all over the world. I wonder how other victims of miscarriages of justice or cover-ups are feeling now? Encourged to make a complaint, I would hope, if they have the time, energy and money.
does anyone else think that the cover up and subsequent inquest has taken away from the underlying reasons here?
This was always going to happen, in fact, it has happened several times before. Bolton Wanderers, Rangers both lost fans in crushes iirc. Valley parade, Heysel. There was only so many times you could throw pissed up blokes into ancient old stadiums without causing a huge disaster.
I can remember bunking over the turnstiles at Roker Park for a lot less than actually paying to get in as a kid, and I bet that happened at Hillsborough.
That ground was an absolute shit hole, the terraces were as steep as the stairs in my house, the exit staircases were far too small, yet I still managed to get stuck, feet off the ground, in a surge to get out of the ground in an FA Cup semi in the years AFTER The deaths of those fans. You just can't see that happening in the grounds of today, yet it took those deaths to change things.
The Jury found the club and site engineers responsible for failings of the 'infrastructure' too - it's not just the Police held to blame.
CPS have announced they're considering charges against senior police officers.
I just don't get how zero blame can be allocated to the crowd itself. How can someone at the front be crushed if the people behind aren't pushing? If nobody pushed anyone the stand would just fill up until nobody else could get in.
How can you get crushed if everyone behind you is standing upright giving you space?
@paulsoxo There is no comparison to the Ibrox disaster, that was a case of fans exiting the stadium thinking their team was beat only for the team to score in the dying minutes and those leaving tried to get back in. At Hillsborough the fans were deliberately maneuvered into an overcrowded and unsafe area by the stadium management and police. The subsequent cover up is the most shameful aspect of all of this and amounts to Perverting the course of justice IMO.
OUTOFBREATH,how poignant your tag is.
Crowd management was totally flawed. If you've ever stood on packed terraces, when someone trips over a step, a group of people will be pushed by that single body. When the group are pushed it's a bit like dominoes.
Why should people serve time?
They broke the law?
I just don't get how zero blame can be allocated to the crowd itself. How can someone at the front be crushed if the people behind aren't pushing? If nobody pushed anyone the stand would just fill up until nobody else could get in.
How can you get crushed if everyone behind you is standing upright giving you space?
Because at Hillsborough you came into the ground via tunnels, so diverting too much flow down one tunnel causes one person to push another, into another, like you would in a crowded pub, adding in to that everyone is pushing the same way that then results in the person on the top step of the terrace falling forward and pushing several people in front of them forward, those several people push several more people and the poor souls at the front end up with nowhere to go.
Whether every person there should have been there is a different story though.
[i]I just don't get how zero blame can be allocated to the crowd itself. [/i]
Maybe you should have sat with the jury for two years and then you might have all the information they had?
it's not just the Police held to blame.
This shouldn't be lost sight of as the stadium wasn't fit for purpose, there was no safety certificate and the ambulance service have also been found at fault.
@outofbreath - the people at the back were trying to get into see a football match they would have had no idea that the pen was so crowded people at the front were being crushed.
Really?
This image (halfway down article) should clear that up for you.
[url= http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/apr/26/hillsborough-inquests-jury-says-96-victims-were-unlawfully-killed ]Guardian graphic[/url]
@Surroundedbyhills, agree however football stadium design at the time allowed that to happen, it wouldn't happen in the newer stadiums by virtue of how open they are.
*not infering any point of view*
Did lots of fans turn up without tickets (after being warned not to) or not?
@outofbreath - the people at the back were trying to get into see a football match they would have had no idea that the pen was so crowded people at the front were being crushed.
Which seems to support the "they were pushing" theory, in which case I can't see how they can be 100pc blameless.
[i]I can't see how they can be 100pc blameless. [/i]
have you never tried to get into a concert or a very crowded train station?
There's just a mass of people and they all move forward a step at a time.
You can't see what's happening 3 or 4 people in front of you, let alone at the other end of a tunnel.
No one 'pushes' in the sense of arms out shoving, they just keep shuffling forward - it's the weight of peoples bodies that causes the problem. They're not 'to blame' for this.
Why should people serve time?
Are you ****ing serious?!!!!
Serving police officers, right up to the top level, conspired, with the help of a compliant media (scum live Kelvin Mackenzie) to fabricate evidence, and mount an orchestrated cover up which they fought an investigation into what actually happened for decades. All while creating a toxic environment where the 96 victims were blamed for their own deaths, while they painted themselves as the victims, and absolved themselves of all responsibility
You don't think anyone deserves to see the inside of a cell for that then?
does anyone else think that the cover up and subsequent inquest has taken away from the underlying reasons here?
I'm somewhat of this view as well. The cover-up was shocking, and criminal offences around that must be pursued, but we are judging the decisions made at that time with hindsight.
Was the unlawful killing verdict unanimous? Initial reports suggested it was a majority, so a criminal conviction even for manslaughter is not a definite certainty. The desire to punish those in charge is totally understandable, but I'd hate another 2 years and millions of pounds to be wasted on a manslaughter charge that might not stick.
Crowd safety has come on massively since Hillsborough, that is a fitting tribute to those poor people who died in the tragedy, not a potentially futile prosecution and a load of solicitors lining their pockets for (albeit justifiable) compensation claims.
They were being ushered in by the police and stewards to relieve overcrowding at the point they were at.
I really really think you should at least take a cursory glance at one or two of the facts before coming up with some new theories.
Or maybe you're right. 🙄
Whether every person there should have been there is a different story though.
Those without tickets do not appear to have affected the outcome of the days events - in several reports and (crucially) in the eyes of the jury.
96 tweets like this to come;
[i]
#Hillsborough inquests John (Jack) Anderson, 62, security guard from Liverpool Verdict: Traumatic rupture of abdominal aorta. Died: 3.08pm[/i]
Let's stop ****ing blaming the fans, please.
The Jury had all the evidence and someone who's clearly heard none of it deciding they know best is disrespectful to the jurors and those who died, today of all days.
Ok so people lying about what happened, when does that become unlawful killing ?
In was an awful tragic accident on all parts. Lessons can be learned but what benefit to having to 'blame' someone when no one (unless I misunderstood) went out that day to cause harm to others
unlawful killing because the police and club had failed to take reasonable precautions to prevent it happening.
Same as driving too fast and leaving the road and killing someone stood on the pavement is not a 'tragic accident'.
Because the people who's job it was to make sure this exact event couldn't take place didn't do their jobs properly, made very bad decisions on the day because they hadn't done their jobs properly and then lied about it afterwards and tried to blame the victims to cover up the fact that they hadn't done their jobs properly
/wwaswas. I get that, but was any other stadium / setup different at that time, I doubt it. A load of unfortunate circumstances led to an outcome.
when does that become unlawful killing
When a jury that's heard all the evidence decides that decisions were made which lead to the deaths.
Question 5. The opening of the gates: When the order was given to open the exit gates at the Leppings Lane end of the stadium was there any error or omission by the commanding officers in the control box which caused or contributed to the crush on the terrace?
Jury's answer: Yes
"Commanding officers did not inform officers in the inner concourse prior to the opening of Gate C.
"Commanding officers failed to consider where fans would go.
"Commanding officers failed to order the closure of the central tunnel prior to the opening of Gate C".
It's not a question of whether they made decisions to deliberately cause the deaths (that would be murder, i assume) or indeed whether they thought it through properly and even realised what they were doing might cause deaths; the fact is they made decisions that in the opinion of the jury after hearing the evidence caused or contributed to the crush and subsequent loss of life.
Fact.
Lessons can be learned but what benefit to having to 'blame' someone when no one (unless I misunderstood) went out that day to cause harm to others
How many drivers that kill cyclists go out that day with the intention of doing so? Are they all just tragic accidents too?
Have some of the commenters in this thread even as much as glanced at the ****ing events of that day?
Some of the questions are quite frankly pathetic at this stage of the investigation.
Go and read some material rather than making half arsed comments about blame.