[Closed] Helping support UK industry- why it's worth it.

We would do much better as a country if we recognise our successes and try and back those.

this ^^^ is really important. IIRC the quality of manufactured stuff in the 70s - British Leyland anyone?, was dire. How many Austin Allegros and Vauxhall Chevettes do you still see on the roads? IIRC the Japanese came along and absolutely kicked our butts on the quality front and we simply couldn't compete...

It was recognised that our strength as a nation is much more in creativity, invention, design - the ideas, and that we'd be better off letting other countries do the manufacturing whilst we played to our strengths. this progressive creative streak is centuries old - it's not an accident that the industrial revolution began in the UK, and also rocknroll/pop music for what it's worth... (our creative industries are considered world class btw)

OP - I suspect you're going to stubbornly stick to your opinion, no matter what counter arguments you're given and no matter how many flaws in your argument are pointed out (e.g. confusing exporting services with emigration!). Good luck with that attitude....

IIRC the Japanese came along and absolutely kicked our butts on the quality front and we simply couldn't compete...

That's a very interesting point, especially as Japanese produced kit was seen as inferior back in the 60s/70s (and possibly 80s). They managed to turn that around massively.

Correct me if wrong, but I have been lead to believe that the Japanese, while not being particularly innovative, tend to take an existing product (prime case being cars) and improve it, while often making it cheaper to produce. Hence vehicles such as the Toyota Hilux.

Aren't Aston owned by Ford?

No were sold in 2007 to a consortium headed by Dave Richards, although it has changed its makeup since then.

At the end of the day you don't need to make the car, plane etc. to have significant components in it. Think Martin-Baker ejection seats or GKN Driveline products.

OP - I'd class this as blatant troll had I not seen your other post where you come across as a Grade A weapon.

A) Don't believe everything you read in the Daily Mail
B) Not all industry has to be based in London
C) Not everything is shouted about on the internet or press

I've got a lot of mates and family based up north who are all in aerospace and renewables (my brother included) who would beg to differ on all of your points. You're just coming across as ill-informed and then trying to argue it with nonsense you've found on the web. My advice would be to just stop.

Pianos, oh just the names left bar one low volume high margin.

PA equipment most of the big players are foreign owned or long since bankrupt.

Cars & Motorbikes apart from a few low volume niche brands are under foreign ownership and/or only assemble in the UK.

The majority of energy providers are foreign owned and we now need Chinese and French input building new nuclear power stations.

Most of the famous British food brands are part of American conglomerates.

Steel production, whats left of it, Indians (Tata) own it.

Quality trade tools are not manufactured in this country as they once were and in many instances there has been a nose dive in quality, the brand names live on of course!

Push bikes apart from a few low volume frame builders are from Taiwan.

What about ship building, trains, planes, plant and machinery, yeah we still do some but no where near as much.

Some of the most successful economies, even the 1st world developed ones, seem to view these things as an important and diverse part of their economies, not replaced by creative and financial services! Still it must be working right, it does seem as though Britain is thriving and not desperate to slash costs, cut corners and save money absolutely everywhere. So yeah lets support where we can.

... it does seem as though Britain is thriving and not desperate to slash costs, cut corners and save money absolutely everywhere.

Are you being ironic?

I'm genuinely not sure.

Some of the most successful economies, even the 1st world developed ones, seem to view these things as an important and diverse part of their economies, not replaced by creative and financial services! Still it must be working right, it does seem as though Britain is thriving and not desperate to slash costs, cut corners and save money absolutely everywhere. So yeah lets support where we can.

I'd agree with a lot of your assessment of how many UK assets are now foreign-owned - and that this is not 'a good thing' IIRC it's how Enron went so spectacularly bust - it turned out they didn't actually own of their assets, they'd sold them all off and were leasing them back

But, the OP is claiming that having a larger manufacturing sector would resolve all this. Which is somewhat missing the point. There's plenty of money to be made in low volume, high value manufacturing, in services, in design etc etc. Also probably a good idea to wean us off a dominant financial services sector, consumer spending, a housing bubble and debt but that's a whole other discussion!

It's this kind of attitude that I find depressing

Suck it up buttercup that's the real world , I do wonder if NASA are aware there is life on another (your) planet?

Funny innit, i had to learn how to use all sorts of machinery as part of my engineering degree, and had to keep up to date with developments in machinery tech as part of my CPD. Maybe bartyp works in an industry where they don't care about stuff like that.

Aren't Aston owned by Ford? Or have they moved on again?

Yes they have but even if they hadn't they're manufactured in the UK which is kind of the point.

@ Pimpmaster Jazz - 😉

@ brooess - Yup it is. Embarrassing to see our government so desperate to rake every penny it can from the populace, they have turned nearly every sofa upside down!

as this is a thread celebrating British engineering, i thought i'd post a photo from Wednesday at work...

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Yes they have but even if they hadn't they're manufactured in the UK which is kind of the point.

Is it? I thought it was about supporting British industry. Manufacturing is only part of that.

Well, it's taken me a while to trawl through this thread, just to make sure I understood the basic premis and the counterpoints raised. All I know is that I design an make stuff in Yorkshire from components mostly made in Yorkshire and people from all over the World seem to want to buy it. And today I was priviledged to visit a successful design and manufacturing facility in Sheffield that makes virtually everything "in house" and they are exporting their goods all over the World. Quality and good design sells, it doesn't need nay-sayers talking it down and the people making it happen are quietly getting on with the job.

Quality and good design sells, it doesn't need nay-sayers talking it down and the people making it happen are quietly getting on with the job.

If you can make a good product, that does the job well and is fairly priced people will buy it.
Down here in Oz (In Tasmania) there is a big Made here thing, problem is when stuff isn't as good and twice the price it's hard to justify.
A mate summed it up, I won't buy something worse just because of where it was made.
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For every Hope, Exposure, Orange, Aston Martin there is a Rover.

[i]For every Hope, Exposure, Orange, Aston Martin there is a Rover. [/i]

Errrm, the 200 was a Honda in drag. Although I'm not sure where that leaves the argument, tbh.

I actually had one from brand new in the early 90's (company car) and I was pleased with it. The engine was a rev happy gem.

The K-series is a midget gem, sort of squidgy, slightly funny taste and sometimes goes rock hard and brittle.

Errrm, the 200 was a Honda in drag. Although I'm not sure where that leaves the argument, tbh.

[url= http://europe.dupontteijinfilms.com/markets-and-applications.aspx ]You may not be aware you are supporting UK industry when buying imported goods, some components are hidden[/url]