[Closed] Help! Water ingress?

Few too many beers last night?

Wood will dry out, just leave the carpet up. Ideally you'd do some more digging and find the water source - it will something like leaking shower tray in neighbours house, leaking CH pipe, leaking water pipe. Keep an eye on it and correlate how wet it is with when it rains (or a few hours later) to figure out if it's rain water getting in.

Takes a long while to rot through floor joists, so no immediate panic.

You could cut away all the plaster at the base of the wall & remove skirting board to try and see where it is coming from, esp if it's running down between the wall and plaster (easy in an old house as the plaster often detaches from the bricks).

can you be sure its not condensation? we had similar a while ago, carpets were sodden, drawers under the bed going mouldy, we thought we had a big leak. turns out its condensation :-/ i was amazed it could be that bad!!
had airbricks put in, bought a dehumidifier, but still struggle with it.

Pretty sure it's not condensation. Aside from the fact it's been fine for the last 30 years, it's too localised a patch and not where I'd expect to see it (it's an adjoining wall, not an outside wall).

Hm.

Looks like the wall is, or has been damp too, just in a small patch though, a few inches from the skirting upwards. Rest of the wall seems fine and dry though.

is from rain? or wet when not raining?

Did tv man bore hole in roof tile/slate for cable? Yes I have seen that done 🙄

So the ground below the joist is not damp, but the joist is, so that means water is trcking in along the joist, get a mirror and tape to a piece of wood, and then by using a lamp or bright torch have a look down under the boards, it may well be comming in from next door.

try lifting a few more boards

Dunno about rain, I've only just noticed it. How long it's been like that, I've no clue.

Yeah. I've got a little inspection mirror but couldn't see much. I lifted partial boards, the bigger ones are going to take more tools than I have to hand. Might well have to go get a crowbar tomorrow.

have you had rain since the TV man was there?

Probably. I live in East Lancashire.

We were away for the weekend so I can't be sure, but it was tipping it down when we drove home down the M62 so it's likely.

3 choices.

1. Trace back the damp to find where it's coming from. Seems odd it's coming up through the floor board rather than dripping onto the ground. Would suggest a continuous dampness rather than a flash flooding when it rains.

2. Get a competent building surveyor it to inspect. Most are happy to do some minor opening up (I certainly would) so mention this if you speak to one.

3. Contact you insurance provider and get them to sort it.

It is fresh water or has it been leaking for a while, if its black and moldy its old.

if its freshish my money is on the tv mannie breaking a slate/tile or making a hole for the cable*
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* could be wrong tho

Could be coming in around a window, if the mortar weakens around the sill, you can get water coming into the wall via that?

Might well have to go get a crowbar tomorrow.

I've had a stubborn boards up with a broad-edge chisel and a claw-hammer, give that a go.

I always screw em back down too, easier to take up if needs be in the future.

PS - sorry i can't offer any more than what's already been suggested but good luck with it, that would do my swede right in til i'd got to the bottom of it.

For reference, here's a pic. Please forgive the disaster area, the awful tiles are under the carpet normally.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/wQ4PbCXzBBjaMhoGm1wgc-KcBg9h1i6PfQ72U4byS3I

... water is fresh, far as I can tell. Relatively clear, not drinking water clear but not stagnant.

Too far away from a window - that's off to the right hand side, different wall.

Surveyer? That sounds cheap. 😯

Is this on the ground floor or the first floor, have you checked if there is a downpipe on the external wall? did the TV guy knock the gutter about with the ladders,could be a leaking joint.
It doesn't take a lot of water hitting the brickwork outside (especially behind a pipe that hasn't been pointed in a while) to bleed through to the inside, can trickle through where the joists are set into the inner brick skin and wallop big wet damp patch.

Turn off the feed to your header tank in the loft, small one. Put a Mark on the water level and check it in the morning. If it's significantly lower, it's likely your back boiler

Ground floor. There is a downpipe there which has been leaking, sort of - ballcock washer needed replacing so the overflow was overflowing. I fixed that a couple of weeks ago though. And again, it's a different wall, and dry between the outside wall and the wet patch. The joists run the other way, parallel to the outside wall. It disappears under brickwork (remains of the old stone fireplace) and heads towards next door.

Water, I have a hot water cistern and a cold tank above it. That feeds other things though; not sure as it's a reliable indicator. I could take the fire surround down though, that'll get me access to the boiler. I don't believe there's anything in the loft.

too much water for leak off window/cable hole without showing elsewhere my money is on the back boiler

sorry double post

so whats above is it a straight pitched roof dormer window is that a chimney breast where the gas fire is?

are you top floor?

Directly above is the bathroom. It's a regular terrace, pitched roof. Normal double-glazed window, not a bay. That's the chimney breast, yes. Ground floor.

Do you have building insurance.
If so check to make sure that you are covered for "escape of water"
If you have & you have a leak then you maybe covered for damage caused by the escape of water.
Also, if you policy has "trace & access" then you may also be covered for locating & opening up for you to repair the leak & then full reinstatement.

If it is rain related then you will need to prove storm damage.

`hope this helps

More likely to be the bathroom IME. Them buggers are always leaking.

Maybe it's your 1970's fire surround weeping with the extent of its uncoolness.

Directly above is the bathroom

[i]woop! woop! woop! alarm bells ringing [/i]

any leaking joints/pipe work, can you take bath panel off

Bathroom fittings don't line up, far as I can work out.

I was avoiding insurance as I didn't want to make a claim if it was something simple. The 'trace...' thing sounds like a plan though. Thanks.

The fire's a hateful thing, but I can't replace it without replacing the boiler, and once I start on that road it's a slippery slope with a four figure bill.

with the insurance, it will only count on your premiums if the claim goes through.
soem insurance companies use surveyors to assess there claims. if your does then at least you can get a free survey which wont cost you anything unless you go ahead with the claim

Innnnteresting.

I've got the STW-approved M&S dealie, they seem pretty good. I'll give them a bell in the morning, see what they have to say.

send 'em a picture of the fire. They'll do it for free 😉

My cat hates you.

Update, and cheeky bump for the morning crowd.

Got up this morning and the floorboards are practically dry. So I'm leaning towards rain water.

Took a picture of the roof.

https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/QIxGSmn5m2Tgts50a9kl7OKcBg9h1i6PfQ72U4byS3I?feat=directlink

Looks like he's bent the lead flashing back to hold the cable. J'accuse?

Glitch bump.

Is it not too much of a coincidence that it is eminating from the Chimney/hearth - also the above link shoiwng the flashing been pulled, it's prob tracking back down the chimney..???

Pretty much my thoughts, yes.

I've just rung them, they're going to send the chap back out to check it. Might be monday now. Ho hum.

Water is running down the INSIDE of the co-axial cable. I've had this, it took a while to figure out.

Nope. That's a different wall.

Just spoken to them again, "what if it pours down all weekend?" They're sending someone 'within the hour' apparently.

Aerial bloke's been and gone, reckons it's nothing to do with them.

I've removed the fireplace and had a better look with a proper torch today, and I'm not wholly convinced that he's wrong either. Back boiler / pipework is looking favourite given the location of the water, maybe a weeping joint.

Spoke to the insurance who've said I do have trace and access (thank you to whoever suggested that), they've suggested I get a plumber and are sending a surveyor. So it's now all going to have to wait till Monday.

Thanks to everyone for suggestions and help so far.

I had this with insurance when a toilet cistern spontaneously cracked - they'll pay for the water damage but not the repair 🙁

Aerial bloke's been and gone, reckons it's nothing to do with them.

Hardly going to admit it though. Is the flashing is flat again now?

If the only bit of flashing the aerial-man has pulled back is the bit to hold the cable then they are innocent and that is not the cause of your damp-patch.

I think you can eliminate your roof from the equation aswell.

I'd say it's your bathroom.

I'd get your old Glowworm boiler fire checked out, could be one of the pipes where it connects onto the heat exchanger in the chimmney breast or the heat exchanger itself! fingers crossed for you (while sucking air through teeth.)

It's been pretty dry since Monday, so unless aerial man was before then, cross him off the list.

The sheer quantity of liquid you've got screams plumbing leak to me. Take the advice about the header tank line above.

they'll pay for the water damage but not the repair

Yep.

Is the flashing is flat again now?

Is it buggery. I seem to have found an aerial fitting company that's roof-phobic.

I'd get your old Glowworm boiler fire checked out

Well spotted sir, I'm impressed. Glowworm Majorca 346N, almost as old as I am. I've had gas fitters out to service it who've gone "what the hell is that?"

If the only bit of flashing the aerial-man has pulled back is the bit to hold the cable then they are innocent and that is not the cause of your damp-patch.

I think you can eliminate your roof from the equation aswell.

I'd say it's your bathroom.

I'm inclined to agree, apart from the last sentence. Willing to be proved wrong, but I'm fairly confident it's not coming from upstairs.

It's been pretty dry since Monday, so unless aerial man was before then, cross him off the list.

It was, uh, Wednesday or Thursday last week, I think.

Ha ha I'm showing my age now! (39) You'd recognise that fire surround after you'd struggled to put one back together and then realised you'd not put the plug back in for the lights or even worse left the baffles out of the heat exchanger! 😉

You could always use the old 'hose onto the roof' trick to try to prove it one way or another. I had to resort to that once to show a builder that his flashing wasn't as good as he was claiming.

Ha ha I'm showing my age now! (39) You'd recognise that fire surround after you'd struggled to put one back together and then realised you'd not put the plug back in for the lights or even worse left the baffles out of the heat exchanger!

I think you may have been out to service this one at some point. (-:

Update for those who care.

Had a surveyor out today courtesy of the nice people at M&S. He's had a camera-on-a-pole looking at the roof, reckons there's some pointing needs doing but that's unlikely to be related.

Plumber's been, confirmed that in his measured opinion it's likely to be a weeping pipe somewhere around the back boiler. He's coming back tomorrow to take everything to bits.

You see now, if you'd have tried my suggestion last week...... 😉

[i] He's had a camera-on-a-pole looking at the roof[/i]

I remember when they just stood the other side of the road with a pair of binoculars. I'm getting old.

More water has come through. Lifted the boards, drip, drip, drip. It's raining, hot water and heating are both off.

Hmm. If I still had my beard, I'd be stroking it.

stuff doesn't have to be on for pipes to hold water under pressure though?

True I suppose.

Fiddlesticks. The aerial bloke, the surveyor and the plumber all reckon it isn't the roof. I'll be cross if they tear half of the wall down and it turns out to be coming down the chimney.

put your hot water/central heating on. if you can reach the drips and they are hot its from your heating/hot water. if cold then maybe it is from before the heating stage. just an idea (that hopefully hasnt already been suggested as i read the rest of the thread a few days ago and my memory isnt all that)

So.

If any of you suggested [url= https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ZxSNTv20JgrCktHveUpXWeKcBg9h1i6PfQ72U4byS3I?feat=directlink ]this[/url],

... which would result in [url= https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/qJ2OdMmkIgoPKx_CxBB9kuKcBg9h1i6PfQ72U4byS3I?feat=directlink ]this[/url],

... then you can award yourself five Cougar Points.

At least they've found it - all fixed now?

Last winter, found this in my parent's cottage:

[img] [/img]

Took some trying to find it behind the kitchen, in the wall:

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

Cougar: now is the perfect time to open the fireplace up a bit more and put a stove in 😀

Great idea. Lend me ten grand?

They've said that replacing the pipe is a huge job due to where it runs. They've exacted a repair using "Rubbaweld" amalgamating tape; said they'd never used it before but the plumber's merchant swears by it... 😯 Seems to have worked anyway, and there'll be a convenient viewing platform for me to keep an eye on it for a while.

Do you have swirly patterned carpets to match your orange walls, Cougar 😉

Not any more. And they're not orange, it's sorta pink. It was supposed to be a sort of warm cosy red but didn't quite work out like that. Still, it'll be going soon. (-:

The repair seems to be holding. Can't get the bloody pilot light lit for love nor money though. Can hear gas and see the spark. Hm.

Update.

The patch failed last night. I've bodged it up with duct tape.

Spoke to the plumbers. They reckon they'll have to do a proper job to guarantee it, which involves taking out the cistern for access, negotiating chimney stone work where currently the lead pipes bend round, and then replacing both pipes with copper for the entire run. They've quoted me £350+vat for this, and reckon it'll be a day's work at least.

Does this sound reasonable? I was expecting it to be more expensive if I'm honest, but I've no idea what I 'should' be paying for this sort of work.

Thoughts?

I'm afraid that I can't offer any advice for your leaky pipes. But I thought you might like to know that you remind me of this chap. (From a photo you posted recently and the little cartoon of you on those links up there ^).

[img] [/img]

Haha, that could be worse.

I've been likened to Tom Savani (Sex Machine in Dusk till Dawn) and Lani Tupu (Crais in Farscape) before now.

can they not just cut out the duff bit and fit somethign like this?

[img] [/img]

or does everyone get funny about lead pipe?

AR for the win then.

Image is broken there.

They said that, uh, lead wrap? isn't reliable and prone to failure, IIRC.

my link?

try here: [url= http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/using_a_compression_pipe_repair.htm ]http://www.ultimatehandyman.co.uk/using_a_compression_pipe_repair.htm[/url]

Ah right.

Yeah, problem there I suspect is that it's old lead. Soft, brittle etc.

unlucky, as an 1890s house owner myself I'm waiting for a plumbing nightmare, only had a couple of minor problems so far.

Did you complain about that pizza?
(greatape's comment made me look at your other pics)

lol

Of course I didn't. It's outrageous though, isn't it?

(Gods, I wonder what else is on there)

you've been poaching my local trails and may or may not have entered buildings that I've not been inside myself 🙂

Rivy?

Vaguely amusing story behind that. We'd stopped for a breather and a bloke was milling about with a few young kids. Shouted across to me asking if I was scared or brave of something similar.

Transpires, the door was open and the kids were egging him to take them in, but he was scared. So I went 'whatever' and had an explore. Got to the top of the tower, in the middle it's pitch black but it brightened up towards the top. The bloke and kids followed me up, but bottled it halfway and the kids started crying so he took them back down.

I came back for the camera and went back up. After a few snaps, I heard the kids shouting up asking if there were any ghosts. I cupped my hands to my mouth and went "OoohoooOOOoohOooh!!" and I've never heard little feet run so fast. Or big ones.

yup.
hehe, might see if it's still accessible next night ride 🙂

If you're spunking 400-odd just to return to status quo, it's worth thinking about sticking something else in there. What does the backboiler serve?