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Given that Neilson aren't turning much of a profit, maybe that's how they have to price it over a season to make their sums/plans make sense?
So yes, they hike the prices up over half term but then IME Neilson holidays tend to be sold out so it's clearly not excessive (in market terms).
Also, FWIW, we took Nem Jnr to Neilson during term in reception (he was still under 5) but realised that it was rather limiting for him as only one other kid of school age was there (eg equally bad parenting...) which meant a shortage of kids of similar age to play with. It was ok that time but we've not done it since - for both that and educational reasons.
Probably depends where you go nemesis. We've been to that one for the past two years in non-term time and there have always been plenty of kids about.
That place is set up as a very kid-friendly hotel though so that may be a factor (e.g. kid's clubs, early kid's meals, situated beside the nursery slope, on-site ski hire, ski school directly outside, etc).
Neilsons all have that though... I've been on 8 or 9 Neilson holidays (3 resorts) and it's fairly clear that during term time there aren't many kids of school age there.
EDIT - I'm talking about Neilson summer holidays. Haven't done one of their ski ones.
I'm pretty sure that the price hike is purely because it's the half term week. You see the same every year in every resort,
Think of it as a discount for out of term usage. The actual price to make a profit will be somewhere in between those two I'd imagine. It's not really profiteering, it's demand management.
This is relevant to me, not because I have kids, but because my gf is a teacher.
Mind if she takes a week off during term time to take advantage of the difference in price?
Think of it as a discount for out of term usage. The actual price to make a profit will be somewhere in between those two I'd imagine.
European package ski season is usually around 18 weeks long (mid-December till end of April-ish).
It would be a bit of an odd business model to run 17 weeks at a loss then one week at a massive profit to balance it!
It's not really profiteering, it's demand management.
I think it's probably both, but as I say I'm not sure if anything could or should be done about it. Some people must be prepared to pay that price.
It's a Neilson-exclusive hotel so the guests are all brits
And the prices are weighted to extract the most from British school holidays.
Mind if she takes a week off during term time to take advantage of the difference in price?
I feel for her. We have several teacher friends who face the same issue.
Personally I wouldn't be averse to teachers being given say a week of holiday to take when they need it (outside of critical exam time obviously).
It would be a bit of an odd business model to run 17 weeks at a loss then one week at a massive profit to balance it!
You think? They aren't necessarily running at a loss, but quite possibly not profitable enough without the brit holiday season. I'd have thought that was fairly common. Entice people in who have a choice at times when those who don't can't come.
It would be a bit of an odd business model to run 17 weeks at a loss then one week at a massive profit to balance it!
Well, the other weeks probably aren't a loss but low margin. You then balance that with the profit on the more expensive weeks. It's not that odd a business model, is it?
Not everyone taking kids out of school is after a cheap package deal.
No, just most of them.
I view cultural immersion as at least as valuable as sitting in a class of noisy children, learning curriculum for stats when looking at an holistic overview of my child's education..
If that cultural immersion is as basic as different food, architecture, and language, mixed with balmy evenings and days spent soaking up Vitamin D whilst splashing in the sea, then it's still better in my opinion than an extra week or two spent amidst the chaos of a British classroom..
Luckily the head teacher at my kid's school agrees 🙂
I view cultural immersion as at least as valuable as sitting in a class of noisy children, learning curriculum for stats when looking at an holistic overview of my child's education..
Middle class self-justification alert!
Heh! I wish..
I would just say that it's an intellectual fact ransos..
I can't expect everyone to understand it, but I do hope I can encourage the hard of thinking to get some clearer perspective 🙂
Middle class self-justification alert!
He's going to get you for that!!!! 😀
I'm pretty sure that the price hike is purely because it's the half term week. You see the same every year in every resort, though it does seem to be getting more pronounced.
If anyone would like a less 'oooh skiing, bloody middle class parents' example then look at any holiday let in the UK, CenterParcs, Bluestone etc. etc.
Even campsites have gone up in price in my experience.
Personally I wouldn't be averse to teachers being given say a week of holiday to take when they need it (outside of critical exam time obviously).
Being married to a teacher I would say this, but it's actually a reasonable idea, to level the playing field. On the basis that the good ones tend to spend a fair bit of their '15 weeks holiday' in the classroom anyway, it'd balance things up a bit, if the rules on other parents are relaxed.
FWIW she doesn't see a week missed as a big deal if attendance is otherwise good and progress satisfactory, but that's only a Foundation / KS1 perspective. As a governor I feel the same - if the parent presents a decent case with some mitigation - doesn't have to be a full time table of work, just an effort to keep things on track - I don't see a problem.
I would just say that it's an intellectual fact ransos..
I can't expect everyone to understand it, but I do hope I can encourage the hard of thinking to get some clearer perspective
My thinking is perfectly clear: you want a cheaper holiday, and are engaging in post-hoc rationalisation in order to justify it.
I'm a recently retired teacher & a parent & can see both sides to this. Unfortunately I haven't been able to take a holiday in school time with my family for the past 32 years - until now as I have recently retired. Unti now & they have all grown up! In fact I had to go into school in the summer for exam download days then spend the best part of the following week analysing the outcome by every conceivable way.....
The problem is not just the one pupil taking time off its the impact on the progress of the rest of the class. One pupil makes little difference, particularly if they are able, but when it comes to 2-3 etc taking time off in advance or arrears of holidays then it's hard for the rest of the class to progress without a lot of going over the same work again. This is particularly so of the core subjects which tend to be linear in their teaching. Ie miss one bit & you don't understand the next.
The pressure on progress & achievement is considerable in schools with performance tables & teacher accountability with many of the broader 'educational experiences' sidelined in favour or a very narrow academic curriculum. School are now obliged to focus on the subjects that feature in the performance tables & drop the ones - even though some pupils can excel at them AND keep them coming to school in some instances - that don't.
This one's for you ransos
Quite simple - scrap the "summer holiday" entirely.
An archaic practice bought about solely from agriculture when it was "all hands on deck" to get the crops in.
Doesn't happen any more, isn't needed any more so why is it still in place?
Get rid of it and run a balance of holidays spread throughout the year equalising it for everyone.
Simple
We wanted three days for my mums 60th suprise and what will probably be my nans last holiday.
Kid 1 at senior school, we don't authorise it but we won't fine you as we can see the reasonings behind it. Kid 2 junior school same town, no we don't authorise and we will fine you, I don't have to but I'm going to. And now you've told me if kid 2 doesn't attend on those days and you possibly phone him in sick we will send someone to your house to check you are not away from home.
New headmaster out to make a name for himself, absolute prick!
[quote=yunki ]If that cultural immersion is as basic as different food, architecture, and language, mixed with balmy evenings and days spent soaking up Vitamin D whilst splashing in the sea
yunki's cultural experience
[img] 
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So your work/life balance doesn't fit your expectations, so your kids education has to be the thing that breaks? Plus their classmates, who sit staring out of the windows while your kids get on the same page as their classmates?
Errmmm! No. I was working 14 years before I had kids so knew how my holidays stood. The rules changed about taking them out after I had kids, I've said this already but you felt the need to try and pick on one small detail.
What sort of school waits to every kids is on the same page, I hope no one takes ill as they'd never move off page one.
Nope, still sounds like you are putting you first. Is that the sign of a good parent?
Classy. I'm not putting me first at all. Not all of us have 6 weeks off over the summer, I get 2 at the most which as I say are pre-booked for me. This year we went to Scotland, well the kids and I as my wife couldn't get he holidays to match the ones I had been given. This was supposed to be a full family holiday with my mother, brother his wife and kids. It was the only week we could get in the cottage. I had to come home Wednesday so my kids could start school again on the Thursday. Yes a Thursday as the teachers needed an extra bank holiday after their 6 week jaunt, plus 2 days training.
I may as well kept them off as the whole class at both schools stared out of the window they didn't start any proper lessons until the following Monday.
The problem is not just the one pupil taking time off its the impact on the progress of the rest of the class. One pupil makes little difference, particularly if they are able, but when it comes to 2-3 etc taking time off in advance or arrears of holidays then it's hard for the rest of the class to progress without a lot of going over the same work again. This is particularly so of the core subjects which tend to be linear in their teaching. Ie miss one bit & you don't understand the next.The pressure on progress & achievement is considerable in schools with performance tables & teacher accountability with many of the broader 'educational experiences' sidelined in favour or a very narrow academic curriculum. School are now obliged to focus on the subjects that feature in the performance tables & drop the ones - even though some pupils can excel at them AND keep them coming to school in some instances - that don't.
This - very, absolutely this.
The problem is not just the one pupil taking time off its the impact on the progress of the rest of the class. One pupil makes little difference, particularly if they are able, but when it comes to 2-3 etc taking time off in advance or arrears of holidays then it's hard for the rest of the class to progress without a lot of going over the same work again. This is particularly so of the core subjects which tend to be linear in their teaching. Ie miss one bit & you don't understand the next.
I can see how this causes problems. Hence why I suggest a school could investigate taking the majority of it's training days as a single, multi-day event.
hammyuk - MemberDoesn't happen any more, isn't needed any more so why is it still in place?
Get rid of (the long summer holiday) and run a balance of holidays spread throughout the year equalising it for everyone.
Simple
except, most people like to go away in summer, when the weather's nice. So the majority would then feel compelled to take their summer holiday in the new summer fortnight.
'summer' holiday prices would triple.
Family
School/Work
Everything else
I have quite a lot of sympathy for that - I also know how much I learnt from concentrated time with my family (Not holidays, I admit).
Nope, still sounds like you are putting you first. Is that the sign of a good parent?
That is actually out of order. You know very little about the way anyone on here parents.
view cultural immersion as at least as valuable as sitting in a class of noisy children, learning curriculum for stats when looking at an holistic overview of my child's education..
If that cultural immersion is as basic as different food, architecture, and language
I think the true value of meeting with people and immersing yourself in a different culture is undervalued. The typical package holiday doesn't do that to be fair - and also to be fair, we don't know what type of holidays Yunki takes. There is a fair degree of hostility for this more rounded view of education.
Boom!
Middle class self-justification alert!
Ransos, you are really quite belligerent on this issue - I have felt it personally on a different thread... With the greatest of respect, the socio-economic background of Yunki is likely unknown to you, it probably has no bearing anyway and possibly reflects more on your prejudices than anything else. You strongly support the view that formal education is crucial - that is fine. Your intolerance of others for taking a different view isn't fine. Maybe a wider, more culturally diverse aspect of your education, may have made you more accepting of differing views... Guess we will never know.
Maybe a wider, more culturally diverse aspect of your education, may have made you more accepting of differing views... Guess we will never know.
I hadn't appreciated the deep cultural richness of immersing your kids in activity clubs while you get shitfaced on "local drinks" on your all-inclusive package holiday.
Your holidays sound crap ransos, but each to their own I suppose.
Your holidays sound crap ransos, [b]but each to their own I suppose.[/b]
Indeed. For example, I choose to not complain about the startling revelation that half-term holidays cost more.
I wouldn't take my kids out as I value their education as priceless.
I don't care if others take kids out as give other kids a head start.
great thread guys, it's got everything, middle class hand wringing, condescending manners and spouting of opiniated nonsense. Keep it up 😀
Was just about to post the same 😆
I've got kids, I'll be taking them out of school in term time no doubt about it
I remember being at school and no one cared if you were there or not, and some days it was barely worth attending as we did very little, especially in the run up to end of terms
I don't care if others take kids out as give other kids a head start.
You actually believe that? Seriously?
Smart kids will be smart, dumb kids will be dumb - not everyone becomes a physicist and the world needs supermarket staff, but to believe it's so finely balanced that a week off swings it, come on
Mleh... My daughter has had 2 days off in 5 years, & that was when she had Flu last year, & we received a letter threatening legal action for non attendance.
My wife is a teacher & we have 2 children at primary school. Even if we wanted to we couldn't take them out of school to take advantage of cheaper holidays. That said, neither of us can condemn those who do. The real frustration for us is that I can't get time off during school holidays, and she can't get time off other than school holidays. What do we do?
great thread guys, it's got everything, middle class hand wringing, condescending manners and spouting of opiniated nonsense. Keep it up
Good to know my efforts are appreciated.
richness of immersing your kids in activity clubs while you get shitfaced on "local drinks" on your all-inclusive package holiday.
Don't do activity clubs. Don't drink on holiday - or much generally in fact. Some years can pass where I don't have a drink Don't do all inclusives. Taken my children out once - pretty sure after considering all the angles I won't do again.
Do think the fines are nonsense. Do have sympathy for families with restricted ability to go on holidays - at all, let alone cheap holidays. Do think that culture is important, hence why my children know a bit more than average about European history - ancient and modern, can speak a fair amount of basic French & Italian and enjoy the truly educational aspects of our time together.
Don't like your aggressive, assumption ridden and somewhat insulting posts Ransos.
I don't care if others take kids out as give other kids a head start.
No it doesn't a apparently they stare out of the widow while the teacher plays catch up for any kids that were off.
The real frustration for us is that I can't get time off during school holidays, and she can't get time off other than school holidays. What do we do?
You're a bad parent apparently. As you're work doesn't meet your expectations.
Reality is that you have a different working environment to those that feel the need to criticise those for trying to spend a week with their kids as Topsy and Tim reading books come first before that.
I'm sure you are typical of parents wanting to take their kids out, jam.
We go on holiday in term time happy in the knowledge that at least the kids will one meal a day and shelter from from the rain from 9-3.
Do think that culture is important, hence why my children know a bit more than average about European history - ancient and modern, can speak a fair amount of basic French & Italian and enjoy the truly educational aspects of our time together.
I'm delighted that Henry and Cecily know how to order an ice cream in Italian, and can follow the complex plotlines of Bob l'éponge, but you'll have to explain why this vital life skill requires them to miss school.
Don't like your aggressive, assumption ridden and somewhat insulting posts Ransos.
Don't read them, then.
[quote=thestabiliser ]We go on holiday in term time happy in the knowledge that at least the kids will one meal a day and shelter from from the rain from 9-3.
Do your kids melt?
Don't read them, then.
Here's a better idea. Maybe change the tone of your posts.
Mmm. Don't know, will put one in the oven when I get home tonight and post up results tomorrow
Whilst you're at it, put some food in for them, so they can get their one meal a day
Mmm. Don't know, will put one in the oven when I get home tonight and post up results tomorrow
You'd be better off putting them up a chimney...more profit in it. 😀
S'alright, if he melts I'll sue aracer for loss of earnings